Setting up a Sheep Farm

Inchilad

BaaBaa17 wrote:

Your right, thats on the conditions alright

Ya was looking to fence hill and advisor did mention something about it.

Inchilad

BaaBaa17 wrote:

Im wondering what kind of supports are available for the likes of me to start off- I know there is a young farmers scheme, and the spf, but is there a scheme for fencing (id have to do a fair bit of wiring) and is reps still available?

Supports available are slack enough.have you green cert?its worth getting if you can.they do it in clon.might be worth wiring the lowland stuff yourself and getting the numbers needed to qualify for tams grant for the hill.wiring hill is no joke!im farming similiar ground.im over near inchigeela

BaaBaa17

Inchilad wrote: »

Supports available are slack enough.have you green cert?its worth getting if you can.they do it in clon.might be worth wiring the lowland stuff yourself and getting the numbers needed to qualify for tams grant for the hill.wiring hill is no joke!im farming similiar ground.im over near inchigeela

Yeah thats my plan. Some of it is wired already, so I'd only need to patch that, but the rest has been fairly neglected. The mountain is f**ked altogether thou, hasnt been maintained at all, and Id need tams for that.

I havent even a herd number yet, nevermind a green cert!

Inchilad

BaaBaa17 wrote:

I havent even a herd number yet, nevermind a green cert!

Thats easy enough but they do check fencing(sometimes!)

Oldira

BaaBaa17 wrote: »

Yeah thats my plan. Some of it is wired already, so I'd only need to patch that, but the rest has been fairly neglected. The mountain is f**ked altogether thou, hasnt been maintained at all, and Id need tams for that.

I havent even a herd number yet, nevermind a green cert!

You never said if there are payments..BPS etc attached to the land as that makes a huge difference to profitability.

I started farming 40 acres in 2015 good land but shockingly overgrown and neglected. Bought 40 sheep and an expensive ram who turned out infertile so had no lambs in 2016. Borrowed a charolais ram for 2017 and have had a great crop of lambs with no trouble at lambing. I put them into a hayshed and leab two for lambing and prefeedng the triplet bearing ones. We managed to get into GLAS 2 and that is paying for the recaliming we are doing every year. So from scratch in 2015 I will turn a profit in 2017 albeit it will all be going back into improvements. I get over 8k a year in Dept payments so obviously that makes a big difference.
Start with making sure you have proper fencing as this will save a lot of bother and also buy a few sheep penning gates to make pens. No need to buy loads of new stuff. Troughs etc can all be sourced cheaply on Done Deal.
You do need a farm advisor imo. Doesnt have to be (shouldnt be!!) Teagasc as he will advise you on supports etc. Try and get into a sheep KT scheme. They have their faults but you can learn a lot of you want to and get paid a few euros for doing so.
I weaned my lambs recently and it was a great feeling to see a pen full of lambs that I had brought this far. Obviously the first cheque from Kepak/Mart will be even better! Good luck!

BaaBaa17

Oldira wrote: »

You never said if there are payments..BPS etc attached to the land as that makes a huge difference to profitability.

I started farming 40 acres in 2015 good land but shockingly overgrown and neglected. Bought 40 sheep and an expensive ram who turned out infertile so had no lambs in 2016. Borrowed a charolais ram for 2017 and have had a great crop of lambs with no trouble at lambing. I put them into a hayshed and leab two for lambing and prefeedng the triplet bearing ones. We managed to get into GLAS 2 and that is paying for the recaliming we are doing every year. So from scratch in 2015 I will turn a profit in 2017 albeit it will all be going back into improvements. I get over 8k a year in Dept payments so obviously that makes a big difference.
Start with making sure you have proper fencing as this will save a lot of bother and also buy a few sheep penning gates to make pens. No need to buy loads of new stuff. Troughs etc can all be sourced cheaply on Done Deal.
You do need a farm advisor imo. Doesnt have to be (shouldnt be!!) Teagasc as he will advise you on supports etc. Try and get into a sheep KT scheme. They have their faults but you can learn a lot of you want to and get paid a few euros for doing so.
I weaned my lambs recently and it was a great feeling to see a pen full of lambs that I had brought this far. Obviously the first cheque from Kepak/Mart will be even better! Good luck!

Thanks a mil for that very good reply. Your story sounds similar to mine... I presumed id be able to apply for the bps, glas, tam, young farmer etc after i get the herd no and the sheep? Excuse my ignorance!

Ard_MC

BaaBaa17 wrote: »

Thanks a mil for that very good reply. Your story sounds similar to mine... I presumed id be able to apply for the bps, glas, tam, young farmer etc after i get the herd no and the sheep? Excuse my ignorance!

GLAS, is closed so you won't get that. Young farmer didn't happen this yr. BPS only if you have entitlements on the land. And anc only if your in a disadvantaged area. Go see an advisor is your best bet for schemes and a good sheep farmer in your area to see the sheep systems thats working.

BaaBaa17

Ard_MC wrote: »

GLAS, is closed so you won't get that. Young farmer didn't happen this yr. BPS only if you have entitlements on the land. And anc only if your in a disadvantaged area. Go see an advisor is your best bet for schemes and a good sheep farmer in your area to see the sheep systems thats working.

Thanks. I dont understand the entitlements system very well, so I should talk to an advisor. Will there be another GLAS?

ganmo

BaaBaa17 wrote: »

Thanks. I dont understand the entitlements system very well, so I should talk to an advisor. Will there be another GLAS?

Yes
The gov have to have an agri environmental scheme of some sorts but it might be a year(pulled from me arse) before it's open for applicants again

Siamsa Sessions

ganmo wrote: »

Yes
The gov have to have an agri environmental scheme of some sorts but it might be a year(pulled from me arse) before it's open for applicants again

I emailed the Dept and asked if there was any plans for a new GLAS or similar and got no reply (previously I had no problem getting replies to emails).

Hopefully there'll be something soon. We weren't set up to go into GLAS last time but will be looking very closely at any new schemes like that.

Siamsa Sessions

Oldira wrote: »

You never said if there are payments..BPS etc attached to the land as that makes a huge difference to profitability.

I started farming 40 acres in 2015 good land but shockingly overgrown and neglected. Bought 40 sheep and an expensive ram who turned out infertile so had no lambs in 2016. Borrowed a charolais ram for 2017 and have had a great crop of lambs with no trouble at lambing. I put them into a hayshed and leab two for lambing and prefeedng the triplet bearing ones. We managed to get into GLAS 2 and that is paying for the recaliming we are doing every year. So from scratch in 2015 I will turn a profit in 2017 albeit it will all be going back into improvements. I get over 8k a year in Dept payments so obviously that makes a big difference.
Start with making sure you have proper fencing as this will save a lot of bother and also buy a few sheep penning gates to make pens. No need to buy loads of new stuff. Troughs etc can all be sourced cheaply on Done Deal.
You do need a farm advisor imo. Doesnt have to be (shouldnt be!!) Teagasc as he will advise you on supports etc. Try and get into a sheep KT scheme. They have their faults but you can learn a lot of you want to and get paid a few euros for doing so.
I weaned my lambs recently and it was a great feeling to see a pen full of lambs that I had brought this far. Obviously the first cheque from Kepak/Mart will be even better! Good luck!

No direct payments here but similar story to yours other than that. Started with store lambs in 2015, lambed a few ewes in 2016 and 2017, and will turn a modest profit in 2018. Fencing and stock were the main costs. And we'll probably invest a decent amount of the profit/surplus in fencing and stock in 2018 too! It won't be an ongoing thing (what's the point?) but needs to be done to get up to a level where you can manage part-time.

BaaBaa17

Another quick question: whay is the best eay to find out the entitlements on the land?

rangler1

BaaBaa17 wrote: »

Another quick question: whay is the best eay to find out the entitlements on the land?

It's usually the person that's farming the land owns the entitlements, if you owned them you'd know about them as you'd be getting rent for them as well as the land so it's likely you don't have any entitlements.

BaaBaa17

rangler1 wrote: »

It's usually the person that's farming the land owns the entitlements, if you owned them you'd know about them as you'd be getting rent for them as well as the land so it's likely you don't have any entitlements.

My father had the land rented out for a kinda cash in hand arrangement so I dnt really know. He was farming himself before that, but I dunno if he was gettin any supports.

J.O. Farmer

BaaBaa17 wrote: »

My father had the land rented out for a kinda cash in hand arrangement so I dnt really know. He was farming himself before that, but I dunno if he was gettin any supports.

Even if your dad was getting supports he would have needed to apply for them in 2015 as that was the 1st year of the current CAP scheme for there to be any entitlements. They had to be activated by the owner at that time.

After that a form would need to be signed each year to apply for the entitlements or lease the entitlements to someone else. Either way there'd be a letter coming in the door each March or April.

BaaBaa17

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Even if your dad was getting supports he would have needed to apply for them in 2015 as that was the 1st year of the current CAP scheme for there to be any entitlements. They had to be activated by the owner at that time.

After that a form would need to be signed each year to apply for the entitlements or lease the entitlements to someone else. Either way there'd be a letter coming in the door each March or April.

I'm pretty sure he wasnt, so that screws that I'd say. Would no entitlements mean no supports? Its just its very hard to see a way to develop the land without some supoorts.

rangler1

BaaBaa17 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure he wasnt, so that screws that I'd say. Would no entitlements mean no supports? Its just its very hard to see a way to develop the land without some supoorts.

I was a judge for the sheep farmer of the year competition this year....we gave it to this guy.He was something else. Work hard and it can be done, otherwise forget it......have to say I wouldn't do it either.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/sheep/this-farmer-started-with-just-23-acres-but-has-built-up-a-600strong-flock-on-400ac-36031098.html

Just edited to say his contracting was shearing and contract dipping....he couldn't have picked harder work. really nice family too

charolais0153

rangler1 wrote: »

I was a judge for the sheep farmer of the year competition this year....we gave it to this guy.He was something else. Work hard and it can be done, otherwise forget it......have to say I wouldn't do it either.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/sheep/this-farmer-started-with-just-23-acres-but-has-built-up-a-600strong-flock-on-400ac-36031098.html

Just edited to say his contracting was shearing and contract dipping....he couldn't have picked harder work. really nice family too

Is that actual dipping or a shower.

rangler1

charolais0153 wrote: »

Is that actual dipping or a shower.

I think it's a shower but that's hard on the operator too

BaaBaa17

rangler1 wrote: »

I was a judge for the sheep farmer of the year competition this year....we gave it to this guy.He was something else. Work hard and it can be done, otherwise forget it......have to say I wouldn't do it either.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/sheep/this-farmer-started-with-just-23-acres-but-has-built-up-a-600strong-flock-on-400ac-36031098.html

Just edited to say his contracting was shearing and contract dipping....he couldn't have picked harder work. really nice family too

I dont mind hard work, but cant afford to dig a hole for myself.

charolais0153

rangler1 wrote: »

I think it's a shower but that's hard on the operator too

No comparison to shearing anyways

Cran

rangler1 wrote: »

I was a judge for the sheep farmer of the year competition this year....we gave it to this guy.He was something else. Work hard and it can be done, otherwise forget it......have to say I wouldn't do it either.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/sheep/this-farmer-started-with-just-23-acres-but-has-built-up-a-600strong-flock-on-400ac-36031098.html

Just edited to say his contracting was shearing and contract dipping....he couldn't have picked harder work. really nice family too

A serious sheep farmer and well deserved, his collegues in west have nothing but praise for him which says it all

drive it

Cran wrote: »

A serious sheep farmer and well deserved, his collegues in west have nothing but praise for him which says it all

That he is and a sound lad to go with it .
He has a sheep shower and does shearing and fencing as well, puts some time and effort into his stock ,don't know how he does it

BaaBaa17

Renewing this thread with another (hard to answer!) question:

If a man had 50-60ewes, part time farming, would he make even a few grand profit?

arctictree

BaaBaa17 wrote: »

Renewing this thread with another (hard to answer!) question:

If a man had 50-60ewes, part time farming, would he make even a few grand profit?

Yes, if he spent very little/nothing on fencing, sheds and machinery.

Siamsa Sessions

Have a look at the Teagasc survey and apply their figures to 50-60 sheep: https://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2016/e-profit-monitor-analysis---drystock-farms-2015.php

There's a huge variance in what different people can make from sheep.

As said above, there's a few grand in 50-60 sheep but the issue is not the margin itself - it's how much time you have to spend doing the related work. If you're well set up, you might be earning minimum wage for yourself. If you're not well set up and it take ages to get dosing, etc. done, then you'll end up paying yourself €3 per hour.

(might not be exactly €3 but you get the point)

BaaBaa17

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Have a look at the Teagasc survey and apply their figures to 50-60 sheep: https://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2016/e-profit-monitor-analysis---drystock-farms-2015.php

There's a huge variance in what different people can make from sheep.

As said above, there's a few grand in 50-60 sheep but the issue is not the margin itself - it's how much time you have to spend doing the related work. If you're well set up, you might be earning minimum wage for yourself. If you're not well set up and it take ages to get dosing, etc. done, then you'll end up paying yourself €3 per hour.

(might not be exactly €3 but you get the point)

Grim enough reading in that! No margin for hill farmers without premia, I'd be a mixed bag of both hill and lowland. I work fulltime, so wouldnt have that much time to spend on them, so setup is key like you said. I'll have to seriously think about it

Siamsa Sessions

BaaBaa17 wrote: »

Grim enough reading in that! No margin for hill farmers without premia, I'd be a mixed bag of both hill and lowland. I work fulltime, so wouldnt have that much time to spend on them, so setup is key like you said. I'll have to seriously think about it

I can only share our experience and what's worked for us: start small, keep expenses low, learn as you go, and invest back in as much as you can.

Same as with any start-up business really. You have an asset (the land) and the interest. But you're only at the starting gate now.

Give it a lash, without spending big, and see what you think in 12 months.

Kevhog1988

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Fencing and handling facilities are the only pre-requisites, I'd say. Everything else can be figured out as you go. You'll make plenty mistakes and get things wrong but as long as you don't keep repeating them, you'll be grand.

I got into sheep in 2015 and lambed for the first time in 2016. My father had them years ago but there's some difference between giving someone a hand and actually managing the flock yourself. But you figure it out over time.

Read loads of stuff about them on the Teagasc and the AHDB website: http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/returns/systems-and-costings/

If you've 20 good acres, then in theory you can carry 90-100 ewes plus their lambs. But it might be easier to start off with 30-40 as you say. The lower stocking rate makes flock health easier to manage. You can build nunbers as your knowledge increases.

I've a few spreadsheets I put together for working out various bits and pieces such as lambing dates, "projected" margins (!), etc. Send me a PM with your email address and I'll send them onto you.

could I have them too??

Siamsa Sessions

theemigrant wrote: »

could I have them too??

Yeah, no bother. Just send me your email address in a PM.