People who say "I seen" and "onder"

Pictures Of Lilly

As in onder, oncomfortable, ongrateful, etc. What the fcuk? When does 'un' become 'on'?

One of my sisters says it the 'on' way. There is no half way house between 'un' ond 'on', so she obviously made a conscious decision to switch at some stage. When I hear her say words this way, I say "gee, is that the D4 accent rubbing off on you?" which I know drives her mad. She always takes the bait for this and gets annoyed, but yet she can't shrug the habit! Sometimes she'll be talking about something very serious and I'll still correct her! Priceless.

My other sister on the other hand says the "I seen". Now we're from a middle/upper class family, so she wasn't raised that way and she knows the correct way to say it. I think it's her way putting her 'working class hero' stamp on things - as if the say "I'm working class, I'm the salt of the Earth". Is it quite trendy to say it this way in some circles? It makes me cringe! Anyway, I corrected her recently (in front of the parents) saying "I saw". She flipped! saying "I'm a bit old to be correct now". I couldn't help but say "you're a bit old to need to be corrected. It's never too late to learn". She got even worse and left the room! I shouted "well you certainly won't learn anything with that attitude".

What do ye think of this? It'd be one thing if they were raised in those social backgrounds. But when people deliberately say a word wrong thinking that it's they're way of being unique! Hmmm.

me_irl

Different people do be talk differently so they do be.

Try to not let it get to you.

frozenfrozen

middle/upper class, keep dreaming you focking pleb

Pictures Of Lilly

me_irl wrote: »

Different people do be talk differently so they do be.

Try to not let it get to you.

On the contrary. It provides for some fun.

Peregrine

Yeah, I seen her!

Uh, that is to say I saw her.

Barry Badrinath

This is very onteresting.

Does ot trivially onnoy you?

PARlance

Hopefully you got the good looks.

Pictures Of Lilly

frozenfrozen wrote: »

middle/upper class, keep dreaming you focking pleb

You want to back that one up?

jimgoose

Leave your sisters alone or I'll kick your arse, youngfella.

Syphonax

On yer bike OP

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Where my mother is from in Offaly, "up" is "op", "under" is "onder" and "Dublin" becomes "Doblin". "Onrale" is a personal fave of mine.

Alf Veedersane

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

Where my mother is from in Offaly, "up" is "op", "under" is "onder" and "Dublin" becomes "Doblin". "Onrale" is a personal fave of mine.

As in Lexie, pacifically?

LLMMLL

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

My other sister on the other hand says the "I seen". Now we're from a middle/upper class family, so she wasn't raised that way and she knows the correct way to say It.

What do ye think of this? It'd be on thing if they were raised in those social backgrounds. But when people deliberately say a word wrong thinking that it's they're way of being unique! Hmmm.

She is saying it correctly. So are you. Every native speaker speaks their language correctly.

jimgoose

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

You want to back that one up?

Picture this. You invite a nouveau-riche twat round for breakfast. You know the type - estate agent, four-bed semi in Kimmage, couple of new Kias, two generations from the campfire. You serve a decent breakfast and he/she says something like "A dinner plate? Do you not have any like, actual breakfast plates? I know a great place that sells breakfast plates you could probably afford!", to which the correct reply is of course "Get the unidextrous fuck out of my house and darken the door no more!"

Now. You invite someone with real class round for same, an aristocrat. You start eating your breakfast out of a fire-shovel and he/she will ask you if you have another fire-shovel, so they can eat properly too.

See what I'm getting at?

Donald Trump

Putting all the circumstantial evidence together, my Columbo-esque skills point me to the obvious and irrefutable conclusion that your sister has, by osmosis, absorbed the Offaly accent due to continually getting railed by Biffos who've moved up to the Big Schmoke


Just out of curiosity........did she take an unhealthy interest in Brian Cowen getting his honorary doctorate there a week or two ago..............

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

furiousox

I seen.
I done.
Should of.
Would of
Could of.
All rampant and spreading like herpes.

Alf Veedersane

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

He probably meant 'un', because he's French.

LLMMLL

furiousox wrote: »

I seen.
I done.
Should of.
Would of
Could of.
All rampant and spreading like herpes.

The first two are perfectly grammatical and fully established. The "of" ones are matters of spelling, and it's only a matter of time before they become acceptable.

Panthro

Pretentious tomfcukery is a term I've invented for posts such as the OP's

furiousox

Call me old fashioned, but I'll stick to I saw, I did, and should have.

alberto67

furiousox wrote: »

Call me old fashioned, but I'll stick to I saw, I did, and should have.

Old fashuned

LLMMLL

furiousox wrote: »

Call me old fashioned, but I'll stick to I saw, I did, and should have.

It's not old fashioned. It's just the way you speak. Others speak differently. It's just standard linguistic variation.

furiousox

I'd see it as using good grammar or bad grammar.
I guarantee you if you use I seen, I done or should of on a job application, your cv will go straight in the bin.

Dramatik

Woodja leave dem dere girdells alone

Cee-Jay-Cee

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

Now we're from a middle/upper class family, so she wasn't raised that way and she knows the correct way to say it.

Maybe your sisters/family don't want to be associated with ridiculous stuck up snobs like you and speak as they do to differentiate themselves from you...which I can understand as you come across as a complete ******

D9Male

My sons brang this stuff into our gaff recently.

LLMMLL

furiousox wrote: »

I'd see it as using good grammar or bad grammar.
I guarantee you if you use I seen, I done or should of on a job application, your cv will go straight in the bin.

That's about what's socially acceptable. I seen is perfect grammar. But some people such as yourself don't understand how language works and will look down on people for speaking perfect but different English.

furiousox

The same way you look down on people who "don't understand how language works"?

HalloweenJack

You sound like a barrel of laughs, OP.

What age are you?

LLMMLL

furiousox wrote: »

The same way you look down on people who "don't understand how language works"?

You're looking down on people for doing something correctly. I'm looking down on people for not doing something correctly - I.e. being ignorant. Totally different.

alberto67

LLMMLL wrote: »

That's about what's socially acceptable. I seen is perfect grammar. But some people such as yourself don't understand how language works and will look down on people for speaking perfect but different English.

Could you please tell us how "I seen" is perfect grammar?

furiousox

LLMMLL wrote: »

You're looking down on people for doing something correctly. I'm looking down on people for not doing something correctly - I.e. being ignorant. Totally different.

Riiiight....:rolleyes:

Ficheall

People who say "shrug the habit" or "but yet". Ew.
We'll ignore your typos, OP, because we're cool like that.

Ficheall

LLMMLL wrote: »

Every native speaker speaks their language correctly.

LLMMLL

alberto67 wrote: »

Could you please tell us how "I seen" is perfect grammar?

For the same reason "I saw" is. It's a regional variation. It just so happens that "I saw" is the dominant version. If everyone around you started to say "I seen" instead of "I saw", newsreaders said "I seen". All characters in TV shows said "I seen", woild there be some linguistic inherent reason that made "I saw" the "correct" version?

The reason most people say "I saw" is because of social influence, not because its "correct".

LLMMLL

Ficheall wrote: »

Well there are exceptions such as those with brain damage, or those who get distracted halfway through a sentence but other than that what I said is completely true.

spoonerhead

Reminds me of a time my sister was teaching kids dancing in Ranelagh. She was told to pronounce skirt like 'skort' by a parent.

Ficheall

LLMMLL wrote: »

Well there are exceptions such as those with brain damage, or those who get distracted halfway through a sentence but other than that what I said is completely true.

Why do they have to be native speakers, then? If there's a group of French people speaking some grammatically incorrect pidgin English, why isn't that also correct English?

furiousox

LLMMLL wrote: »

For the same reason "I saw" is. It's a regional variation. It just so happens that "I saw" is the dominant version. If everyone around you started to say "I seen" instead of "I saw", newsreaders said "I seen". All characters in TV shows said "I seen", woild there be some linguistic inherent reason that made "I saw" the "correct" version?

The reason most people say "I saw" is because of social influence, not because its "correct".

No, I completely disagree.
That's just your opinion and you're presenting it as fact.

Alf Veedersane

LLMMLL wrote: »

For the same reason "I saw" is. It's a regional variation. It just so happens that "I saw" is the dominant version. If everyone around you started to say "I seen" instead of "I saw", newsreaders said "I seen". All characters in TV shows said "I seen", woild there be some linguistic inherent reason that made "I saw" the "correct" version?

The reason most people say "I saw" is because of social influence, not because its "correct".

By 'regional variation' do you mean enough people from a geographic region get it wrong that it's considered correct...because that's language evolving?

LLMMLL

Ficheall wrote: »

Why do they have to be native speakers, then? If there's a group of French people speaking some grammatically incorrect pidgin English, why isn't that also correct English?

Pidgins would be a debatable area and I'm trying to keep things simple. For example, a pidgin language doesn't usually have the same flexibility or complexity as a native language, until the children of pidgin speakers turn it into a Creole. Whether it even resembles native English at this point would be another factor.

LLMMLL

furiousox wrote: »

No, I completely disagree.
That's just your opinion and you're presenting it as fact.

It pretty much is fact, as far as something can be factual in psychology/sociology/linguistics.

If the way you speak English is "correct", why did nobody in England 3-400 years ago speak like you? Was every English person at the time speaking incorrect English?

LLMMLL

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

By 'regional variation' do you mean enough people from a geographic region get it wrong that it's considered correct...because that's language evolving?

The original change may be die to people getting it wrong. It.may be due to people being creative with language and a trend starting.

Even if it is due to initial "mistakes" catching on, who's to say that "I seen" was the mistake?

jimgoose

Well cheeks, dollsnatch. Well cheeks. Totally fucking Mexico. Keep it livid, keep it dense, yeah?

furiousox

Of course language has evolved but people have probably been saying "I seen" for at least the last 30 years or so.
"Should of" is relatively recent and is a by-product of text speak.
Why then are children taught to say I saw at school and not I seen?
Why would a radio or tv broadcaster never say should of?
Because it's incorrect, and bad grammar, that's why.

Alf Veedersane

LLMMLL wrote: »

The original change may be die to people getting it wrong. It.may be due to people being creative with language and a trend starting.

Even if it is due to initial "mistakes" catching on, who's to say that "I seen" was the mistake?

So basically if enough people get it wrong and it becomes a trend, it's 100% correct?

I get that language has to evolve but there's a line.

Do you make the same argument for 'text speak'? I mean 'txt spk'.

LLMMLL

furiousox wrote: »

Of course language has evolved but people have probably been saying "I seen" for at least the last 30 years or so.
"Should of" is relatively recent and is a by-product of text speak.
Why then are children taught to say I saw at school and not I seen?
Why would a radio or tv broadcaster never say should of?
Because it's incorrect, and bad grammar, that's why.

I seen has been around a lot longer than 30 years.

I'm not sure what you mean about children being taught to say "I saw". Children aren't taught to speak. They pick it up naturally. Saw will only say "I saw", others will pick up both "I seen" and "I saw". Everyone will pick up "I saw" because its dominant in our culture and any engagement with media such as a kids cartoon will lead to them encountering "I saw".

Schools used to train people out of their regional accents but that's pretty frowned upon now, at least by linguists. It may still happen.

Nobody says "should of". They write it. Everyone says the same thing which phonetically is "shuduv". You've no idea if a newscaster has "should of" or "should have" in mind when he/she is speaking.

LLMMLL

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

So basically if enough people get it wrong and it becomes a trend, it's 100% correct?

I get that language has to evolve but there's a line.

Do you make the same argument for 'text speak'? I mean 'txt spk'.

Of course there's a line, and nobody can draw the line accurately. That's common to many situations though.

So for example, say I start saying "gark" instead of "saw". "I gark the accident on pearse st yesterday".

Everyone will agree that one person's mistake is not correct English.

A handy rule of thumb for me is if enough people are saying the "mistake" for it to become an irritation to others then it is now correct English. For example, me saying "gark" is not going to get a thread started on boards.

Gerry T

My brother says frum, as in he's frum Dublin! Don't know where he got that frum.

alberto67

LLMMLL,

Is that what you mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English