Junior Rugby [Social Rugby] Season 2017/2018

gaius c

General discussion thread for all Junior Rugby - be it J1 senior rugby or social level J4/J5/J6 etc!
Pre season is about to begin! If you have any questions about junior rugby or are thinking of joining a local club, here's a good place to get info.

Divisions 1-5 are set with fixtures nearly decided. Remaining divisions especially the very social divisions 9/10/11 will be decided later next month as teams know numbers etc

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic-rugby/domestic-fixtures-results/

Leinster Metro League Divisions:

DIVISION 1

1. Old Belvedere - 2nd XV
2. Terenure College - 2
3. UCD - 2
4. Lansdowne - 2
5. Clontarf - 2
6. St Marys College - 2
7. Old Wesley - 2
8. Dublin University - 2

DIVISION 2

1. Blackrock College - 2
2. Naas - 2
3. Clontarf - 3
4. MU Barnhall - 2
5. Greystones - 2
6. Lansdowne - 3
7. St Marys College - 3
8. Old Wesley - 3

DIVISION 3

1. Seapoint - 2
2. Wanderers - 2
3. Dublin Dogos - 1
4. Terenure College - 3
5. Old Belvedere - 3
6. Navan - 2
7. Tullamore - 2
8. Blackrock College - 3

DIVISION 4

1. Bective Rangers - 2
2. UCD - 3
3. Skerries - 2
4. Lansdowne - 4
5. Rathdrum - 1
6. Stillorgan - 1
7. Malahide - 2
8. Old Wesley - 4

DIVISION 5

1. Clontarf - 4
2. Wanderers - 3
3. Naas - 3
4. Greystones - 3
5. Terenure College - 4
6. CYM - 1
7. MU Barnhall - 3
8. St Marys College - 4

DIVISION 6

1. Coolmine 3
2. Dublin University 3
3. MU Barnhall 4
4. DLSP 3
5. St Marys 5
6. Guinness 1
7. Old Belvedere 4

DIVISION 7

1. Blackrock College 4
2. Wanderers 4
3. Old Wesley 5
4. UCD 4
5. Navan 3
6. Tallaght 1
7. Seapoint 3
8. Bective Rangers 3

DIVISION 9

1. AIB 1
2. Bective Rangers 4
3. Clondalkin 3
4. Clontarf 5
5. Dublin University 4
6. Guinness 2
7. Parkmore 1
8. Stillorgan 2

DIVISION 10

1. Clontarf
2. Suttonians
3. Terenure College RFC
4. Old Belvedere
5. Malahide
6. BGF Ravens
7. MU Barnhall
8. Coolmine

DIVISION 11

1. Bective Rangers - 5
2. De La Salle Palmerston - 4
3. Dublin Dogos - 2
4. Emerald Warriors - 1
5. Monkstown - 3
6. Normans - 1
7. Railway Union - 3
8. St Marys College RFC - 6
9. Stillorgan - 3
10. Tallaght - 2
11. Terenure College RFC - 6
12. Wexford Wanderers - 3

There is a newly affiliated team, Dublin Dogos in Division 3. The Dublin Dogos are a team of ex-pats that will be based in Coolmine Rugby Club.

Will be september before we know the makeups of divs 6-11.
Division 8 might make a comeback but I suspect not.

Tarf1234

Posted on the old thread - Interesting to see that Div 1&2 of the metro leagues both have Old Wes, Tarf, Marys and Lansdowne. I think most people expected something like this to happen. Also interesting to see that Div 1 is essentially what you would have predicted when the new structure came out.

Will be interesting to see who comes up from Div 3 this year. On a somewhat related note does anyone know anything about the Dogos and what they're expected to be like?

blackwhite

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see who comes up from Div 3 this year. On a somewhat related note does anyone know anything about the Dogos and what they're expected to be like?

My understanding is that the initial group that set them up were largely South African - not sure what the player pool they have is like now.

LeinsterDub

blackwhite wrote: »

My understanding is that the initial group that set them up were largely South African - not sure what the player pool they have is like now.

Feckin South Africans coming over here taking our leagues

Tarf1234

blackwhite wrote: »

My understanding is that the initial group that set them up were largely South African - not sure what the player pool they have is like now.

Where are they going to play will they have dispensation in relation to foreign players?

blackwhite

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Where are they going to play will they have dispensation in relation to foreign players?

Playing in Coolmine I understand.

A player is no longer considered an "Overseas Player" once they've lived here for more than 3 years. From what I've heard, the team is comprised of Ex-Pats who live in Ireland, so I'd imagine most, if not all, will qualify this way.

All I've heard was reports from our representative to Leinster Branch, so not certain what, if anything, was agreed. I know there had been concerns that this club might eat into the playing pools of other clubs in North Dublin, but I didn't hear any reports of concerns around non-qualified players.

Tarf1234

blackwhite wrote: »

Playing in Coolmine I understand.

A player is no longer considered an "Overseas Player" once they've lived here for more than 3 years. From what I've heard, the team is comprised of Ex-Pats who live in Ireland, so I'd imagine most, if not all, will qualify this way.

All I've heard was reports from our representative to Leinster Branch, so not certain what, if anything, was agreed. I know there had been concerns that this club might eat into the playing pools of other clubs in North Dublin, but I didn't hear any reports of concerns around non-qualified players.

Cheers, will be interesting to see how they go.

Losty Dublin

blackwhite wrote: »

My understanding is that the initial group that set them up were largely South African - not sure what the player pool they have is like now.

They were mainly Argies actually, as far as I know, but they'll take in anybody.

blackwhite

Losty Dublin wrote: »

They were mainly Argies actually, as far as I know, but they'll take in anybody.

Hadn't heard that. Memo circulated by branch back in April mentioned SA players

Eponymous

blackwhite wrote: »

Hadn't heard that. Memo circulated by branch back in April mentioned SA players

From what I can see, it's mostly Argentinians. One lad from Stillorgan joined them anyway.

I'd be curious about how they went about placing them at that level, but good luck to them. Nice to see a new team set up.

Guy:Incognito

Any sign of the rest of the fixtures yet?

shoutman

Have heard nothing... looking forward to playing some actual matches, our (Clontarf) first preseason game looks to be against Mary's on the 22nd. I'd expect that the league isn't starting too soon after that.

gaius c

Leagues usually start around the last week in September so you've another month to wait.

The Lost Sheep

Divisions 6 and 7 now up with fixtures.
Division 7
Blackrock College 4, Wanderers 4, Old Wesley 5, UCD 4, Navan 3, Tallaght 1, Seapoint 3, Bective Rangers 3

Division 6
Coolmine 3, Dublin University 3, MU Barnhall 4, DLSP 3, St Marys 5, Guinness 1, Old Belvedere 4

shoutman

I've seen the Division 9 fixtures also...

AIB1
Bective Rangers 4
Clondalkin 3
Clontarf 5
Dublin University 4
Guinness 2
Parkmore 1
Stillorgan 2

gaius c

blackwhite wrote: »

Playing in Coolmine I understand.

A player is no longer considered an "Overseas Player" once they've lived here for more than 3 years. From what I've heard, the team is comprised of Ex-Pats who live in Ireland, so I'd imagine most, if not all, will qualify this way.

All I've heard was reports from our representative to Leinster Branch, so not certain what, if anything, was agreed. I know there had been concerns that this club might eat into the playing pools of other clubs in North Dublin, but I didn't hear any reports of concerns around non-qualified players.

Apparently they are having their players poached at a serious rate. Somebody in the branch is obviously feeding info to AIL clubs.

mynamejeff

Lenister league starting Saturday


make your calls early who is going up whose going down ?


some big personal moves made by a few of the clubs but the top two divisions are very competitive.

gaius c

12 teams in metro 11. Each plays each other once.

Bective Rangers - 5
De La Salle Palmerston - 4
Dublin Dogos - 2
Emerald Warriors - 1
Monkstown - 3
Normans - 1
Railway Union - 3
St Marys College RFC - 6
Stillorgan - 3
Tallaght - 2
Terenure College RFC - 6
Wexford Wanderers - 3

stephen_n

gaius c wrote: »

12 teams in metro 11. Each plays each other once.

Bective Rangers - 5
De La Salle Palmerston - 4
Dublin Dogos - 2
Emerald Warriors - 1
Monkstown - 3
Normans - 1
Railway Union - 3
St Marys College RFC - 6
Stillorgan - 3
Tallaght - 2
Terenure College RFC - 6
Wexford Wanderers - 3

Fair bit of traveling involved in the one.

The Lost Sheep

stephen_n wrote:

Fair bit of traveling involved in the one.

only if you had to do trips to both Kilkenny and wexford. And still much less than any other sides in other leagues at social level or higher levels

stephen_n

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

only if you had to do trips to both Kilkenny and wexford. And still much less than any other sides in other leagues at social level or higher levels

Naas and Navan are the two furthest from Dublin I can think of in the other social leagues. Kilkenny and Wexford are considerably further than either.

The Lost Sheep

stephen_n wrote:

Naas and Navan are the two furthest from Dublin I can think of in the other social leagues. Kilkenny and Wexford are considerably further than either.

Was referring to social leagues in other provinces where distances are much greater. And it's still just 1 maybe 2 games in a season. Nothing that will cause any issues for anyone in a season.

Tarf1234

stephen_n wrote: »

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

only if you had to do trips to both Kilkenny and wexford. And still much less than any other sides in other leagues at social level or higher levels

Naas and Navan are the two furthest from Dublin I can think of in the other social leagues. Kilkenny and Wexford are considerably further than either.

Tullamore isn't a great trek from Dublin

stephen_n

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Was referring to social leagues in other provinces where distances are much greater. And it's still just 1 maybe 2 games in a season. Nothing that will cause any issues for anyone in a season.

Ah right, have no idea what distances are travelled in other provinces. For any Dublin team that gets both Wexford and the Normans away, that's a lot of traveling in terms of Leinster clubs.

mynamejeff

stephen_n wrote: »

Ah right, have no idea what distances are travelled in other provinces. For any Dublin team that gets both Wexford and the Normans away, that's a lot of traveling in terms of Leinster clubs.[/QUOTE

longford in the lenister league


worst trip ever

gaius c

What about them? They have trips to Dublin most weekends!

stephen_n

gaius c wrote: »

What about them? They have trips to Dublin most weekends!

Yes that's very true, they have at least half their fixtures, which is serious mileage. I remember when the Dublin clubs used to complain about the trips to Greystones :pac:

Pudsy33

Where are you guys finding the leagues? The old site doesn't seem to be working for me

blackwhite

gaius c wrote: »

12 teams in metro 11. Each plays each other once.

Bective Rangers - 5
De La Salle Palmerston - 4
Dublin Dogos - 2
Emerald Warriors - 1
Monkstown - 3
Normans - 1
Railway Union - 3
St Marys College RFC - 6
Stillorgan - 3
Tallaght - 2
Terenure College RFC - 6
Wexford Wanderers - 3

Quite likely to see 1/2 teams drop from that by end of October

The Lost Sheep

stephen_n wrote:

Ah right, have no idea what distances are travelled in other provinces. For any Dublin team that gets both Wexford and the Normans away, that's a lot of traveling in terms of Leinster clubs.

It's only a lot of travelling for some Dublin clubs. Any junior club will be used to considerably more travel.

Pudsy33 wrote:

Where are you guys finding the leagues? The old site doesn't seem to be working for me

works fine for me. Domestic website then fixtures/results and metro leagues are in the drop down menu

devolution

Well some things never change! Beware of the Monkstown 3rds, Just cricket scored our 6th team
67-17 tonight!
Absolute joke!

Terenure 6ths 17-- Monkstown 3rds --67

The Lost Sheep

devolution wrote: »

Well some things never change! Beware of the Monkstown 3rds, Just cricket scored our 6th team
67-17 tonight!
Absolute joke!

Terenure 6ths 17-- Monkstown 3rds --67

3rds v a 6ths... early in season sometimes that can happen. Wouldnt Terenure 6ths have plenty of beginners especially compared to a club like Monsktown...

delta_bravo

devolution wrote: »

Well some things never change! Beware of the Monkstown 3rds, Just cricket scored our 6th team
67-17 tonight!
Absolute joke!

Terenure 6ths 17-- Monkstown 3rds --67

Not involved in either team but by chance was dropping someone up to gaelic training nearby and saw bits of this game. It certainly wasn't a division 10 outfit there but it's the same old story with the early stages of the season.

Also looking at the division 11 results, 12 teams originally entered the league. One has already withdrawn and three this weekend conceded matches so only one game of rugby was played. Doesn't bode well.

devolution

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

3rds v a 6ths... early in season sometimes that can happen. Wouldnt Terenure 6ths have plenty of beginners especially compared to a club like Monsktown...

As it's a new team we're putting into div 11, it's made up of New guy & ex retirees etc but they just got Tanked by what in reality was 1) a team that is completely in the wrong league or 2) mainly made up of a crew of players from a higher team that were free to play !

The Lost Sheep

devolution wrote:

As it's a new team we're putting into div 11, it's made up of New guy & ex retirees etc but they just got Tanked by what in reality was 1) a team that is completely in the wrong league or 2) mainly made up of a crew of players from a higher team that were free to play !

monkstown have 3 teams. players from their seconds are perfectly entitled to play 3rds if eligible and a lot would be at this time of the season. That doesn't mean the team is in the wrong league. And there is nothing wrong with using players from higher team if eligible and free to play

GavMan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

monkstown have 3 teams. players from their seconds are perfectly entitled to play 3rds if eligible and a lot would be at this time of the season. That doesn't mean the team is in the wrong league. And there is nothing wrong with using players from higher team if eligible and free to play

Absolutely spot on. Under the regs as they are, Monkstown likely did nothing wrong if they did indeed field firsts or 2nds players in that game.

The branch and clubs may need to look again at div 10 and 11. If they do indeed want to use them as development leagues for newcomers and late bloomers they may need to place some restrictions that players from above some cut off league can't drop down to 10/11 for example.

How you police something like that I don't know but its worth investigating.

Can't imagine how anyone took away anything positive from that game. I suppose that nure put any scores on after being so outclassed is 1 perhaps.

gaius c

I suggested that the six game limit was reduced when there's a big gap between leagues but nobody was interested.
Divs 10 and 11 ARE development leagues. That's why contested scrums are optional.

Last year's league was impacted as well.
http://www.leinsterrugbydomestic.com/league/112079/division11
Look at the teams who were conceding but then winning well when they did bother to field. It introduces a completely random element to the league and is completely disrespectful to guys who are training & playing week in/week out. Their shot at a playoff final comes down to whether their opponents turn up and hose them or concede.

If teams want to turn up when it suits them and flat track bully weaker teams, they should be invited to vacate divs 10 & 11 and organise friendly matches because they are messing up what is meant to be a development league. Note that the weakest team in the league last year, the warriors didn't get any walkovers. That says it all about the mentality of these teams.

Also, these were not firsts and seconds players being fielded. The teamsheets were looked at last year and the bulk of the players being fielded were not regular players at all (even in div 11) so they were nowhere near the six game limit, which raises other rather interesting questions. I did contact one club to let them know about an illegal player in one of their fixtures but they were outside the time limit to pursue it and get the points awarded. If it had been pursued, the div 11 final would have been played by different participants.

gaius c

DLSP have withdrawn from div 11 btw.

shoutman

Anyone have links to the tables? The Leinsterdomestic rugby website still seems to be showing last years tables.

It is unfortunate that at this time of the year you will have some teams being an awful lot stronger than they will be after Christmas were players will be ineligible to play at lower levels given the amount of games they've played at a higher level.

On the one hand, some teams probably struggle to field at the lower levels so its a case of a) boost numbers with players who are probably too good for that level or b) concede and the lads who aren't good enough to play at a higher level never get a touch of the ball.

Not saying it's the right thing to do, but if it's within the rules, teams and clubs aren't going to change things. You would hope that if teams are putting up cricket scores that players/managers would have the cop on to ease off somewhat.

The Lost Sheep

gaius c wrote: »

I suggested that the six game limit was reduced when there's a big gap between leagues but nobody was interested.
Divs 10 and 11 ARE development leagues. That's why contested scrums are optional.

Last year's league was impacted as well.
http://www.leinsterrugbydomestic.com/league/112079/division11
Look at the teams who were conceding but then winning well when they did bother to field. It introduces a completely random element to the league and is completely disrespectful to guys who are training & playing week in/week out. Their shot at a playoff final comes down to whether their opponents turn up and hose them or concede.

If teams want to turn up when it suits them and flat track bully weaker teams, they should be invited to vacate divs 10 & 11 and organise friendly matches because they are messing up what is meant to be a development league. Note that the weakest team in the league last year, the warriors didn't get any walkovers. That says it all about the mentality of these teams.

Also, these were not firsts and seconds players being fielded. The teamsheets were looked at last year and the bulk of the players being fielded were not regular players at all (even in div 11) so they were nowhere near the six game limit, which raises other rather interesting questions. I did contact one club to let them know about an illegal player in one of their fixtures but they were outside the time limit to pursue it and get the points awarded. If it had been pursued, the div 11 final would have been played by different participants.

That the lower divisions are development shouldnt be a reason teams cant do what has occured. If eligible they can do what they like.
I know some teams who entered teams in lower divisions relatively late solely as they had excess under 20 players and they played when they could. Otherwise they conceded when those players were playing 20s(lower divisions at that grade) or if they were called up to higher teams within the club. They conceded the game at their clubs lowest level which is how things are meant to work if a clubs ladder system of teams is working correctly.

shoutman wrote: »

Anyone have links to the tables? The Leinsterdomestic rugby website still seems to be showing last years tables.

It is unfortunate that at this time of the year you will have some teams being an awful lot stronger than they will be after Christmas were players will be ineligible to play at lower levels given the amount of games they've played at a higher level.

On the one hand, some teams probably struggle to field at the lower levels so its a case of a) boost numbers with players who are probably too good for that level or b) concede and the lads who aren't good enough to play at a higher level never get a touch of the ball.

Not saying it's the right thing to do, but if it's within the rules, teams and clubs aren't going to change things. You would hope that if teams are putting up cricket scores that players/managers would have the cop on to ease off somewhat.

Cant appear to show a direct link to the league tables and fixtures for this season but its showing all this seasons league tables and fixtures for me..
Your last paragraph is spot on but all too often that wont happen

gaius c

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That the lower divisions are development shouldnt be a reason teams cant do what has occured. If eligible they can do what they like.
I know some teams who entered teams in lower divisions relatively late solely as they had excess under 20 players and they played when they could. Otherwise they conceded when those players were playing 20s(lower divisions at that grade) or if they were called up to higher teams within the club. They conceded the game at their clubs lowest level which is how things are meant to work if a clubs ladder system of teams is working correctly.

That was certainly the story that was being told but the teamsheets don't really back it up.
Sad to say but teams are going to have to start bringing cameras to games.

And if it was true, put them into division 8 or 9. Sure they'll only play half their games but the competition will be more even in the games that they do play. We're talking about games where no. 8's were picking from the back of scrums outside the 22 and kicking drop goals. What good does that do anyone!

gaius c

shoutman wrote: »

Anyone have links to the tables? The Leinsterdomestic rugby website still seems to be showing last years tables.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic-rugby/domestic-fixtures-results/

They appear to have done away with the old system, which is muck for anyone want to quickly check on their phone.

jamesbondings

gaius c wrote: »

That was certainly the story that was being told but the teamsheets don't really back it up.
Sad to say but teams are going to have to start bringing cameras to games.

And if it was true, put them into division 8 or 9. Sure they'll only play half their games but the competition will be more even in the games that they do play. We're talking about games where no. - - - 8's were picking from the back of scrums outside the 22 and kicking drop goals.--- What good does that do anyone!

I play 1 or 3.....but before beer and pizza played 12 as high as j2 (almost 10 years ago) so I have a very good peg for a forward.

Scored a drop goal against tallaght a few years ago..... (I was 20st at the time).... We got hammered like 50 odd to 10....really wanna get back at it this year.... How do you gents sell a day out playing rugby to the wags when there's Childers about?

gaius c

Now Bective gone from division 11.
That solves part of the problem I was alluding to.

gaius c

Also big win for emerald warriors yesterday. They've had huge numbers training so it's a great result for them.

stephen_n

gaius c wrote: »

Also big win for emerald warriors yesterday. They've had huge numbers training so it's a great result for them.

That result puts a bit of perspective on the Monkstown game. It's great for the warriors, their first league win in 3 years. A lot of respect to Terrnure though, that is definitely a development team and as horrible as it is to be hammered every week, as the warriors prove, if you stick at it, the wins will come.

devolution

The Terenure team is a brand new team which we have been trying to get up & running , It's very much a " build it & they will come "
It will be a struggle for s while but it will eventually get there!
Well done to the Warriors !

gaius c

devolution wrote: »

The Terenure team is a brand new team which we have been trying to get up & running , It's very much a " build it & they will come "
It will be a struggle for s while but it will eventually get there!
Well done to the Warriors !

Fair play. It's what division 10 and 11 should be about.

devolution

Tough game today in Div 10
Very strong malahide 3rds team ,
Will be tough to beat !

The Lost Sheep

All games scheduled for tomorrow off due to storm warning.
To be played next weekend instead.

How's everyones season going so far?

devolution

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

All games scheduled for tomorrow off due to storm warning.
To be played next weekend instead.

How's everyones season going so far?

We’re Div 10
In 2nd place , Malahide will be hard to beat so it’s 2 or 3 teams chasing 2nd spot as we all go into return games !
Our 6s were meant to play Marys tonight but even the All weather pitch is frozen ( Think they are now calling it the “ most weather” pitch !