NTA 'unsupportive' of Uber's Irish plan to expand

magicbastarder

The National Transport Authority has told ride-sharing service Uber that it is unsupportive of the company's plans to expand in Ireland.

In a letter to the San Francisco tech company, the NTA described Uber's proposal to operate a pilot scheme for paid trips in private cars as "undesirable" and would result in unfair competition with licensed taxis.

It said "operating parallel regulated and non regulated regimes would undermine the regulated transport system".

Uber has been operating in Ireland for three years but has been unable to roll out the ride-sharing service that operates in other countries.

more:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0728/893553-uber-ireland/

Dyr

Good on the NTA

GhostyMcGhost

Mr.S wrote: »

Better cars
Better drivers
Cheaper
Easier to order a car and pay

Yes, very undesirable

Nice timing. Especially when taxi fares are about to increase too

Wanderer78

Am I right in saying uber is banned in Germany?

magicbastarder

what's the deal if you're involved in an accident and your insurer finds that you were using your car for commercial activities?

Dravokivich

Mr.S wrote: »

Better cars
Better drivers
Cheaper
Easier to order a car and pay

Yes, very undesirable

How is it cheaper? I thought they went up during peak times?

bk

Dravokivich wrote: »

How is it cheaper? I thought they went up during peak times?

Surge pricing, but doesn't really happen much.

In the US they are generally a good bit cheaper then Taxi's and during surge pricing they are often still slightly cheaper or just on par with Taxi's.

But then there is UberPool which is seriously cheap. You basically share the car with other people it picks up along the route. Fantastic service.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the deal if you're involved in an accident and your insurer finds that you were using your car for commercial activities?

Was thinking the same, also would there be an obligation to hold a PSV license?

Mr.Frame

Mr.S wrote: »

Better cars
Better drivers
Cheaper
Easier to order a car and pay

Yes, very undesirable

How so?
How are they better drivers , betters cars, cheaper, easier to order ect ?

cruizer101

Deleted User wrote: »

Was thinking the same, also would there be an obligation to hold a PSV license?

Yeah that was my understanding of why it hadn't taken off in Ireland due to the requirement of a PSV licence which only really taxi drivers have anyway, so they were the only ones doing uber.

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

How so?
How are they better drivers , betters cars, cheaper, easier to order ect ?

Well apps are certainly a million times better and easier to use then the old way of having to ring up a radio company, ughh that was horrible.

Though obviously this isn't unique to Uber.

In the US, Uber certainly ends up having better cars and cheaper then taxis. Usually nice big black cars and SUV's, even on the regular service, much nicer then clapped out yellow taxi's. They end up cheaper due to no need for a million plus taxi medallion.

Of course non of this necessarily translates to Ireland.

howiya

bk wrote: »

Well apps are certainly a million times better and easier to use then the old way of having to ring up a radio company, ughh that was horrible.

Though obviously this isn't unique to Uber.

My use of taxis has shot up tenfold since the introduction of these apps which are generally reliable.

Had a dodgy experience the other week though. Used mytaxi to order a taxi home from work and got offered a free exec upgrade. The app said it was at no extra cost.

Get home and the driver says that'll be €43. He seemed to be able to see that I'd ordered a taxi and not an exec car and said something about putting a note on the job to mytaxi.

I emailed them and it took them four days to reply, only after I engaged with them on twitter. They have since refunded the difference between the 43 and my normal fare (approx 28).

Thought it was a bit cheeky to be honest. Their response was we're sorry that you weren't happy with the fare. Nobody could answer my question which was when something is given to me a free upgrade, why should it cost me anything extra.

They also said that they cannot stop exec drivers taking normal taxi job requests and that if I get one again I should cancel it. I then asked why would I want to cancel a "free upgrade" to which they wouldn't answer.

Mr.H

Good. Screw uber

I was in London recently with my girlfriend. We decided to get an uber. Ordered it on the app and it arrived not to long after. She got in first and he started to drive with the door still open and me trying to get in..... he stopped quickly when he realised. But then it got worse. About a block or two into the journey the app on is dashboard said we cancelled our uber even though we were in it! He then started to shout at us. After it calmed down he offered to take us to our destination for a cash fee rather than pay through uber. The fee was around what we would have paid through uber but I thought screw this guy. Maybe he didn't accept us on his end that he collected us and this is a way of making cash without uber fees. The trouble is we were charged a penalty for cancelling even though we didn't cancel. I told him what I thought of him and then he stopped and told us to get out. As I got out I told him where to go of course not that it did anything other than make me feel slightly better. So that meant we were left down an alleyway in the middle of London in the middle of the night.

Thank god we have smart phones with maps or else we wouldn't have a clue how to get to our hotel from there.

Ended up getting a black cab not far from where we were abandoned.

So uber can go to hell. What protects people from drivers like this. At least taxis are regulated and safe. Anyone could be driving here ubers and it's a public safety concern.

You wanna drive a taxi get a flipping license. They aren't even that expensive anymore.

plodder

Mr.H wrote: »

You wanna drive a taxi get a flipping license. They aren't even that expensive anymore.

Think I'd agree with that. I've used uber in the US, and it was fine, but it has to be pot luck when it's unregulated like that. Maybe we did the right thing in liberalising the business but not deregulating it completely. Compare to the bad old days of the last century, taxis aren't too bad here now.

bk

Mr.H wrote: »

Good. Screw uber
So uber can go to hell. What protects people from drivers like this. At least taxis are regulated and safe. Anyone could be driving here ubers and it's a public safety concern.

What happened to you was terrible, but wasn't Ubers fault, it was the drivers fault and I've had worse happen with Taxis in Dublin *

Also BTW all Uber drivers in the UK most have a private hire licence. So really no different to taxi drivers here in Ireland:

https://www.uber.com/en-GB/drive/requirements/

* Some choice experiences I've had with Taxi's in Dublin.

- Girlfriend, orders a taxi to Clontarf DART station. He says where you are going on the DART, says he will bring her there. She says no thanks. He says Clontarf Dart station isn't safe at night, he will bring her to Connolly instead, much safer :rolleyes: She says no, Clontarf please. He ends up bringing her to Killester DART station, totally freaks her out and has me almost calling the Gardai until he left her out (I wasn't in the Taxi on text to the GF or I would have bollicked him out for it). Reported him to the NTA next day, never did hear what happened.

- Jump into a Taxi at Dublin Airport. Told him where I was going and he proceeds to scream and shout about how it is a short journey, etc. (it is medium distance), and I had a cheek wasting his time! Had I not had bags in the boot I would have told him to stop and feck off.

- An Irish taxi driver who didn't know where Drumcondra Road was! I'm like the road to the Airport and he is like ah... right!

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

What happened to you was terrible, but wasn't Ubers fault, it was the drivers fault and I've had worse happen with Taxis in Dublin *

Also BTW all Uber drivers in the UK most have a private hire licence. So really no different to taxi drivers here in Ireland:

Really ? I thought SPSV stood for Small "Public" Service Vehicle, not "private". They're not the same.

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Really ? I thought SPSV stood for Small "Public" Service Vehicle, not "private". They're not the same.

SPSV does stand for that, but they are basically the same thing.

SPSV is an overall licence that includes all vehicles for hire by the "public", including Taxis, Hackneys and Limos.

In the UK, they have two separate licences. Taxi licenses specifically for Taxis. And Private Hire Licence for mini cabs (what we call hackneys) and Limos.

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/private-hire-vehicle-licence

Thing is Taxi Licences in the UK require a much higher standard (the knowledge in London, etc.) then they do here. Taxi Licenses here is more similar to the PHL in the UK.

There is a difference in naming between UK and Ireland.

UK - Taxis, sometimes also called Hackneys and Black Cabs, can pick up on the street, require a Taxi licence
Uk - Mini-cabs and Limos, can't pick up on the street, only book by phone or app, require a PHL

Ireland - Taxis, can pick up from the street, require a SPSV
Ireland - Hackneys (note different from the UK) and Limos, can't pick up from the street, only phone and app bookings, also require a SPSV.

The UK system is more like the old Irish system where you had separate taxi and hackney licenses.

But the point is that Uber drivers are still fully licensed in the UK and really isn't much difference in the requirements between a PHL there and a SPSV here.

ED E

Id also add while in theory Irish taxis are regulated, we don't get much for that regulation. Clapped out cars driven in downright dangerous ways. NTA/Carriage office aren't interested in public safety.

Mr.Frame

ED E wrote: »

Id also add while in theory Irish taxis are regulated, we don't get much for that regulation. Clapped out cars driven in downright dangerous ways. NTA/Carriage office aren't interested in public safety.

Thats a rather startling comment to make.

So every taxi "clapped out" and every driver drives dangerously?
What evidence have you to say that the NTA are not interested in public safety. Im sure they would disagree and take issue with that.

listermint

Uber is one of the latest i a line of linchpins in a race to the bottom for wage structures.

It should not be welcomed in any form.

Its sole purpose is to under cut local business, circumvent local laws, A price race to the bottom under the guise of being better for the consumer.

Sorry but no thanks, they can keep it in the US where it fits in with the race to the bottom over there.

Mr.Frame

listermint wrote: »

Uber is one of the latest i a line of linchpins in a race to the bottom for wage structures.

It should not be welcomed in any form.

Its sole purpose is to under cut local business, circumvent local laws, A price race to the bottom under the guise of being better for the consumer.

Sorry but no thanks, they can keep it in the US where it fits in with the race to the bottom over there.

Fair comment, I have to agree. Uber along with another very popular delivery company (mostly use push bikes and a dangerous looking delivery box on the back of the cyclist)are most definitely creating a price race to the bottom.

bk

A counter argument. Since I started using Uber and Hailo/MyTaxi my usage of Taxi's has gone way up. It makes it so much easier and frictionless. All my friends and colleagues say the same. The old way was just terrible.

I've seen reports in the usage that show the use of hire vehicles has increased significantly since Uber/Lyft entered the market in the US and that there are more people then ever employed in the industry overall.

Of course like any disruptive technology, there are winners and losers. Certainly folks who had paid million+ for Taxi medallions are losing out as are the traditional dispatch companies. Not too different to the effect deregulation had here.

Of course these companies long term game plan is self driving vehicles, which will simply destroy the for hire vehicle industry.

BTW I'm not sure what your issue with Deliveroo is! They normally do deliveries from more high end type restaurants which in the past had no delivery option. It is an extra option for people and certainly not cheap at all, actually quiet expensive. I don't see how that is a race to the bottom?!

magicbastarder

bk wrote: »

A counter argument. Since I started using Uber and Hailo/MyTaxi my usage of Taxi's has gone way up. It makes it so much easier and frictionless. All my friends and colleagues say the same. The old way was just terrible.

you're conflating the benefit of a decent taxi booking app with what uber would bring though; and they're not the same.

plus, i guess the comment about deliveroo was probably in relation to how the 'employees' are treated; a comment on the gig economy rather than on the benefit of restaurants gaining a delivery option.

bk

magicbastarder wrote: »

you're conflating the benefit of a decent taxi booking app with what uber would bring though; and they're not the same.

True, though if you listen to folks on the Taxi Driver forums, they also seem to think the likes of Hailo/MyTaxi, Lynk, etc. are the devil spawn.

It really makes no sense at all.

magicbastarder wrote: »

plus, i guess the comment about deliveroo was probably in relation to how the 'employees' are treated; a comment on the gig economy rather than on the benefit of restaurants gaining a delivery option.

But people were saying race to the bottom. Before Deliveroo, there was simply zero people doing this job, so there simply couldn't be a race to the bottom. Deliveroo created whole new jobs that never existed before, that is a good thing. They saw a gap in the market and delivered a totally new service that I don't see hurting anyone else.

As for the way's employees are treated. Welcome to the entire restaurant/bar/catering industry. Minimum wages, crappy hours, slaving in kitchens, all round.

Not saying it is a good thing, it isn't, I think it is exactly the type of thing unions should be fighting for rather then well paid public servants, but they seem to care little about it! But it is an industry wide problem and not a problem with any one company.

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

True, though if you listen to folks on the Taxi Driver forums, they also seem to think the likes of Hailo/MyTaxi, Lynk, etc. are the devil spawn.

It really makes no sense at all.

Who do the folks on Taxi Driver Forum represent?

bk wrote: »

But people were saying race to the bottom. Before Deliveroo, there was simply zero people doing this job, so there simply couldn't be a race to the bottom. Deliveroo created whole new jobs that never existed before, that is a good thing. They saw a gap in the market and delivered a totally new service that I don't see hurting anyone else.

As for the way's employees are treated. Welcome to the entire restaurant/bar/catering industry. Minimum wages, crappy hours, slaving in kitchens, all round.

Not saying it is a good thing, it isn't, I think it is exactly the type of thing unions should be fighting for rather then well paid public servants, but they seem to care little about it! But it is an industry wide problem and not a problem with any one company.

There were /are plenty of people doing deliveries. As for the company you mentioned , it is widely accepted that they dont exactly treat their "employees" fairly.
But thats for another topic http://www.huckmagazine.com/perspectives/worked-deliveroo-rider-trust-must-support-strike/

magicbastarder

bk wrote: »

True, though if you listen to folks on the Taxi Driver forums, they also seem to think the likes of Hailo/MyTaxi, Lynk, etc. are the devil spawn.

It really makes no sense at all.

i probably should steer clear of that forum so.

Harry Palmr

What is the insurance situation for those who sign up to Uber, are drivers obliged to have public liability cover and if so who pays for it?

bk

magicbastarder wrote: »

i probably should steer clear of that forum so.

You really should, it is a horrible toxic place. Literally one of the worst forums of any type I've ever seen on the internet.

It certainly doesn't reflect well on taxi drivers. Though I've no doubt it is just a minority of drivers and the majority of normal drivers keep well away from it.

But for those minority :eek:

Marcusm

cruizer101 wrote: »

Yeah that was my understanding of why it hadn't taken off in Ireland due to the requirement of a PSV licence which only really taxi drivers have anyway, so they were the only ones doing uber.

The market changed in Ireland post deregulation. In the past hackney drivers would have been a good market for Uber just as they have for mini cab drivers in the UK. PSV license, appropriate vehicle and normal regulation. The whole "ride sharing" is a neat idea in a non commercial sense but if they were going to have any prospect of getting it approved there would have to be some limit - for example, no more than 3 rides per day offered. If you're going to run a commercial cab service, it should be regulated. Personally, I think the Taxi Regulator needs more teeth, not a whole class of cab outside its reach.

Marcusm

Mr.H wrote: »

Good. Screw uber

I was in London recently with my girlfriend. We decided to get an uber. Ordered it on the app and it arrived not to long after. She got in first and he started to drive with the door still open and me trying to get in..... he stopped quickly when he realised. But then it got worse. About a block or two into the journey the app on is dashboard said we cancelled our uber even though we were in it! He then started to shout at us. After it calmed down he offered to take us to our destination for a cash fee rather than pay through uber. The fee was around what we would have paid through uber but I thought screw this guy. Maybe he didn't accept us on his end that he collected us and this is a way of making cash without uber fees. The trouble is we were charged a penalty for cancelling even though we didn't cancel. I told him what I thought of him and then he stopped and told us to get out. As I got out I told him where to go of course not that it did anything other than make me feel slightly better. So that meant we were left down an alleyway in the middle of London in the middle of the night.

Thank god we have smart phones with maps or else we wouldn't have a clue how to get to our hotel from there.

Ended up getting a black cab not far from where we were abandoned.

So uber can go to hell. What protects people from drivers like this. At least taxis are regulated and safe. Anyone could be driving here ubers and it's a public safety concern.

You wanna drive a taxi get a flipping license. They aren't even that expensive anymore.

You should have complained to TfL, he had to be a licensed private hire vehicle (minicab in UK, used to be called hackneys in Ireland). You'll still have his details to make the complaint.

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

There were /are plenty of people doing deliveries. As for the company you mentioned , it is widely accepted that they dont exactly treat their "employees" fairly.

There are food delivery companies like Dominoes, etc.

But the restaurants I see on Deliveroo in my area I know for a fact never had a delivery service. There are all more traditional restaurants that at best you could call up and pick up take-away from yourself, but they didn't deliver.

Deliveroo in my experience brought something completely new to the market. Pick up from higher end restaurants rather then your normal fast food pizza/chinese/indian take-away and delivery.

And if you think those take-away places are paying their drivers any better, you are kidding yourself.

Harry Palmr wrote:

What is the insurance situation for those who sign up to Uber, are drivers obliged to have public liability cover and if so who pays for it?

Uber in Ireland currently only operate Taxis and Limos, with full SPSV's and all the requirements that go with that.

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

You really should, it is a horrible toxic place. Literally one of the worst forums of any type I've ever seen on the internet.

I've looked at that forum at various times,yes while some comments are far from being savoury , saying it is "the worst forums of any type I've ever seen on the internet " is a little over the top.

bk wrote: »

It certainly doesn't reflect well on taxi drivers.

But it doesn't speak for or represent taxi drivers.

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

And if you think those take-away places are paying their drivers any better, you are kidding yourself.

They are and I'm not.

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I've looked at that forum at various times,yes while some comments are far from being savoury , saying it is "the worst forums of any type I've ever seen on the internet " is a little over the top.

But it doesn't speak for or represent taxi drivers.

Honestly, I can't think of a worse one. But then I don't go trawling the depths of the dark web. But certainly for any sort of "professional forum" it is an absolute cesspool.

You should see the way they talk about their customers there and in particular the way they talk about women! As a father, damn scary :eek:

And while it might not officially represent taxi drivers, it certainly reflects terribly on them and shows that just because a lad as a bit of a paper saying they have a license, doesn't make them a professional and certainly blows away the idea that you are any safer in a licensed taxi then any random persons car.

Mr.Frame wrote: »

They are and I'm not.

Not in my experience.

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

Honestly, I can't think of a worse one. But then I don't go trawling the depths of the dark web. But certainly for any sort of "professional forum" it is an absolute cesspool.

I don't think you have to trawl the dark web to find worse. As a gay man I have seen some horrible comments made about /against LGBT people on Boards as it happens, without so much as an infraction or a warning given, until a LGBT forced the issue. But that's for another days work!

bk wrote: »

You should see the way they talk about their customers there and in particular the way they talk about women! As a father, damn scary :eek:

and LGBT people and people of colour. But they do not represent anyone but themselves, the forum does not speak for taxi drivers.

bk wrote: »

And while it might not officially represent taxi drivers, it certainly reflects terribly on them and shows that just because a lad as a bit of a paper saying they have a license, doesn't make them a professional and certainly blows away the idea that you are any safer in a licensed taxi then any random persons car.

But anyone could set up a forum and call it whatever,, Joetaxi.com or Dubtaxidriverslimited.com , I Love Taxis .com

It reflects on the people who post comments on it. Again, it does not represent taxi drivers.
Forget about it, would be my advice.

bk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I don't think you have to trawl the dark web to find worse. As a gay man I have seen some horrible comments made about /against LGBT people on Boards as it happens, without so much as an infraction or a warning given, until a LGBT forced the issue. But that's for another days work!

Let me just say, that such carry on would not be allowed on any forum on boards that I mod! :mad:

Mr.Frame

bk wrote: »

Let me just say, that such carry on would not be allowed on any forum on boards that I mod! :mad:

Glad to hear it. Wish "others" would be as authoritative as your good self :D

Alun

bk wrote: »

Deliveroo in my experience brought something completely new to the market. Pick up from higher end restaurants rather then your normal fast food pizza/chinese/indian take-away and delivery.

And if you think those take-away places are paying their drivers any better, you are kidding yourself.

I recently ordered from a new restaurant here in Bray via JustEat, and it seems they're getting on the act as well. A young girl delivered it on a scooter with JustEat emblazoned on her jacket and one of those weird cubic rucksack things again with the JustEat logo all over it.

bk

Alun wrote: »

I recently ordered from a new restaurant here in Bray via JustEat, and it seems they're getting on the act as well. A young girl delivered it on a scooter with JustEat emblazoned on her jacket and one of those weird cubic rucksack things again with the JustEat logo all over it.

Yup, they seem to be getting into the same game. But that is new, previously they only handled the ordering side, not delivery. However Deliveroo were definitely there first.

I will say I thought Deliveroo is a great concept. Great to be able to order proper food from proper restaurants, rather then just the usual take-away food. Great for people who don't own a car and thus can't do take-away from decent restaurants. I think the concept is an important one for modern cities where people don't need cars, along with services like Tesco Delivery, Amazon and Uber/Hailo.

However I have to say I stopped using it. Food turned up cold too many times, disappointed with it too many times.

I will say that I always tipped the delivery person.

magicbastarder

the main issue with deliveroo is that the employees are not employees; they're contractors who don't have any benefits of what an employee would have, such as guaranteed hours, insurance, etc.
not saying deliveroo are the only people at it, but it's not a welcome development in the way the economy is going, where a company can externalise the usual costs of depending on actual people with actual lives to do the work for them.

jesus_thats_gre

Mr.S wrote: »

Better drivers - based on a rating system so everyone is friendly

Better cars - again, based on a rating system so always spotless and modern cars

Cheaper - UberX is far cheaper then a normal taxi fare, UberPool is peanuts when split. Yes, surge pricing happens at peak times which can make it more expensive.

Easier to Order - the Uber app is far supperior then any taxi app out there and makes paying a breeze.

I've had much more pleasant rides in Uber's in London and the US versus here.

Edit: I'm not saying taxis are awful here, far from it. But I'd much prefer an Uber service, mostly for price and consistency.

Can only base my experience of using Uber extensively in London - with a small amount of usage in New York and San Francisco.

With regard to your claims:

Better drivers: Absolutely not the case in London. They may be a bit friendlier but they often can't speak basic English and they are completely dependent on the routing provided by Waze - or similar. A black cab driver is generally a far better driver.

Better cars: Again, not really the case in London. The black cabs can be a bit dated but they are infinitely more spacious and practical than the majority of Ubers in London. Granted, you can get a Ford Galaxy if you order a large car and you might be lucky enough to get an E-Class but a Prius will generally turn up.

Easier to Order: Not sure that I agree with you. Have used Hailo and MyTaxi extensively in multiple countries across Europe in the past 4 years. The Uber app is fine but the Hailo app was generally my favourite - the combined Hailo and MyTaxi app is about on par with the Uber app.

The one downside of Uber is that you always run the risk of a higher than expected charge due to the fact that you cannot keep an eye on the meter.

The upside of Hailo/MyTaxis is that you get the convenience of an Uber like app but still get regular taxi.

Cheaper: There can be no real debate here. Easily half the price of a black cab.

There are some other downsides to the Uber in London. Uber's cannot use bus lanes and I have often found myself sitting in traffic for extended periods while black cabs fly past in the bus lane. The routing within the app isn't the most efficient in my experience. I always keep an eye on Google Map routing while in taxis abroad in order to ensure I am not being scammed. Combined with personal experience in areas that I am familiar with, it is apparent that the drivers are 100% dependent on the mapping route and the routes are often less than optimal.

So yes, they will generally always be cheaper in London. But they won't be quicker than a black cab. Who cares on the weekend but that matters during the week when on business.

Then there is the fact that Uber generally shouldn't be trusted. There are countless stories and rumours of what they do behind the scenes. The most recent rumour that they pay based on the optimum route while charging the customer for the route actually taken - which actually ends up being a longer route.

That rumoured lack of integrity, along with the race to the bottom that is associated with the 'gig economy' leads me to being very happy with the NTA's decision. The NTA now need to get their finger out and adopt what has been down in other cities - standard make/model car and so on.

Ps. Conscious that the majority of my references are based on London. It is slightly different in NYC and SF (better cars for one) but I see London being a better indicator of how things would be in Dublin.

jesus_thats_gre

bk wrote: »

- Jump into a Taxi at Dublin Airport. Told him where I was going and he proceeds to scream and shout about how it is a short journey, etc. (it is medium distance), and I had a cheek wasting his time! Had I not had bags in the boot I would have told him to stop and feck off. !

Should see what happens in Germany in the same scenario after you ask can you pay with credit card. I have had drivers punch the steering wheel and shout profanities at me on multiple occasions.

At some stage though, you have to ask yourself what is the cause of such behaviour. Lack of professionalism is obviously a major part of it but you have to wonder how much financial pressure they are under.

This is where Uber makes me very uncomfortable. The dramatic reduction in fares that is associated with Uber doesn't feel like that answer. It feels like smoke and mirrors intended to disrupt an industry. Lower costs now feel good but I suspect it will lead to multiple abuses in the future.

myshirt

There is always push back in this country to anything that upsets the gravy train. Always. I don't know does anyone remember the hassle that John O'Sullivan had when trying to Aircoach off the ground.

Massive push back and pressure. These people are protecting their own. It's a f#ck you to spreading the benefits of competition across the economy. Protectionism I suppose, the whole setup at the moment is just working as sweet as a nut and they wouldn't have it any other way. Forget efficiency, frequency, price competition, expansion of routes, streamlining of routes or anyone trying to make things better for consumers and consumer choice. Dress it up whatever way you want and try legitimise it, bit in the end of the day it always comes back to money. CIE were at it for years with this culture. 80quid return to Dublin from Cork. High pay. Big pensions. Big lump sums. It's exactly this same culture that underpins the resistance against Uber.

jesus_thats_gre

myshirt wrote: »

There is always push back in this country. Always. I don't know does anyone remember the hassle that John O'Sullivan had when trying to Aircoach off the ground.

Massive push back and pressure. These people are protecting their own. It's a f#ck you to spreading the benefits of competition across the economy. Protectionism I suppose, the whole setup at the moment is just working as sweet as a nut and they wouldn't have it any other way. Forget efficiency, frequency, price competition, expansion of routes, streamlining of routes or anyone trying to make things better for consumers and consumer choice.

Hmmm there is always a bit of this but it can't be that simple.

I am a technology nut and generally a major advocate for 'digital disruption' - it is what I do for work.

London is the perfect example. You can't have a standard such as the exam that the black cab drivers have to pass and then just allow Uber to come in a **** all over it.

magicbastarder

myshirt wrote: »

There is always push back in this country to anything that upsets the gravy train.

or else; 'regulatory authority suspicious of company which has a stated aim of disrupting regulations'.

let's face it; uber might have a better chance if their reputation was not so poor.

MJohnston

I'm in the weird position of completely accepting and loving a service like Deliveroo, while hating Uber.

The problem I see with Uber in Ireland is that in the US, they were originally created to fill a gap - that is, if you've ever been to San Francisco, you'll know that there are an absolutely pitiful amount of taxis in comparison to the population size. So, people were crying out for a service like Uber that could provide them with taxi-like transportation quickly and easily.

Now Uber have started bringing their same regulation-bypass game to markets that are already more than adequately served by properly regulated taxis, like Dublin, and it just smacks of undercutting and dodgy tactics. Indeed, in a country where taxi licenses are readily available, and carefully monitored, allowing drivers to bypass that and go unregulated and unlicensed is just asking for trouble (especially when Dublin, for example, has a known problem with dodgy cabs).

I think Uber would work pretty well up north in Belfast, because they have an absolutely dismal taxi availability, and I've had nights out there where I'm waiting from 1am until about 4am in the pouring rain waiting for a taxi to take me home, and ending up having to pay double the rate to get there because it's further away. There's a mafia-like running of the taxi industry up there, and it could benefit heavily from disruption. In Dublin, it just seems dangerous.

Edit: I'd also add that one of the benefits of Uber is the breaking of monopolies and how that aids more reasonable pricing. I've seen many complaints about Dublin taxis, but I think most people would agree that they're fairly priced (by the book anyway), and that there's very heavy competition for your trade.

Mr.Frame

myshirt wrote: »

There is always push back in this country to anything that upsets the gravy train. Always. I don't know does anyone remember the hassle that John O'Sullivan had when trying to Aircoach off the ground.

Massive push back and pressure. These people are protecting their own. It's a f#ck you to spreading the benefits of competition across the economy. Protectionism I suppose, the whole setup at the moment is just working as sweet as a nut and they wouldn't have it any other way. Forget efficiency, frequency, price competition, expansion of routes, streamlining of routes or anyone trying to make things better for consumers and consumer choice. Dress it up whatever way you want and try legitimise it, bit in the end of the day it always comes back to money. CIE were at it for years with this culture. 80quid return to Dublin from Cork. High pay. Big pensions. Big lump sums. It's exactly this same culture that underpins the resistance against Uber.

Massive push back and pressure from whom? What protectionism? and what exactly do you mean by " the whole setup at the moment is just working as sweet as a nut and they wouldn't have it any other way. "

charlie_says

If Uber play by the regulatory rules and pay their tax properly and fairly like everyone else has to, then they are welcome to the market. Pretty simple in my head. If only it was that fair....

strandroad

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

This is where Uber makes me very uncomfortable. The dramatic reduction in fares that is associated with Uber doesn't feel like that answer. It feels like smoke and mirrors intended to disrupt an industry. Lower costs now feel good but I suspect it will lead to multiple abuses in the future.

Uber is only cheaper because Uber the company subsidises fares. Research shows that passengers pay only a half of what they would if Uber was not burning investors' billions on subsidies. It cannot last and is not designed to, they just want to push others out. It's like €1 menu in McDonalds, surely one can see they're being baited?

With taxi apps I see no need for Uber in Dublin, the last thing the city needs is more cruising cars...

Dyr

magicbastarder wrote: »

the main issue with deliveroo is that the employees are not employees; they're contractors who don't have any benefits of what an employee would have, such as guaranteed hours, insurance, etc.
not saying deliveroo are the only people at it, but it's not a welcome development in the way the economy is going, where a company can externalise the usual costs of depending on actual people with actual lives to do the work for them.

And this is the crux of it, none of these companies are "tech" companies or digital disruptors or whatever the wannabe paddy cosgraves call them

They're built around dodging regulations to drop costs. It's not new.

ED E

Bambi wrote: »

And this is the crux of it, none of these companies are "tech" companies or digital disruptors or whatever the wannabe paddy cosgraves call them

They're built around dodging regulations to drop costs. It's not new.

Its not new. Dominos have done it for decades.