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Sion

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭ peasant


    € 16.000 + € 4.000 for the battery
    250 km on a full charge
    serial production from 2019



    dutch with english subttiles


    https://sonomotors.com/


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I presume €20k is a rough price incl EU VAT but before incentives? The Irish subsidy on a €19k-€20k car is €4.5k which would bring the car down to about €15k which might make it interesting for some people. Still a lot of money for a great unknown.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    €15k for an EV with 250km range (reduce to say 200k in real world) and that should sell like hotcakes here.
    Remember how many Irish people bought Fiat Puntos in the early noughties even though the Irish hate fiats. Cheap brand new cars will always sell.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    £8k on the road price for a Punto SX in the mid 90s with scrappage :D

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    £8k on the road price for a Punto SX in the mid 90s with scrappage :D


    My parents bought one in 2000 for the 00 reg :rolleyes:
    00KE 7063 (I think..)
    It's actually visible on streetview outside their house :D
    "open book pricing"




    But yeah, Paddy loves him a cheap new car. And for that reason I think that scion will sell well here.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    I watched the English youtube vid above.

    I'd buy that car.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    It's a pity they stuck the solar panels on. They're a gimmick. Vertically placed solar panels, LOL! They could have shaved the guts of a grand from the price of the car without the panels.

    V2G feature is very interesting though. Need to know more about the specs. Max wattage?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,827 Mod ✭✭✭✭ peasant


    But it's a hybrid, you see ...the first ever solar-electric hybrid :D

    Seriously though...up to 30 km (in ideal conditions) on solar only, that's not to be sniffed at

    (be 0.3 km in NW Ireland though)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    peasant wrote: »
    Seriously though...up to 30 km (in ideal conditions)


    It's a made up figure. Unless the sun shines on the vehicle from all directions at once :rolleyes:

    Same reason them mentioning it has 1200wp is completely pointless. a solar panel might have a certain watt peak level, but turned away from the sun it produces nothing

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ DesperateDan


    Solar panels do generate power from ambient, indirect light photons though. I think on a cloudy day the roof would generate just as much as the side panels (40% efficiency compared to a sunny day)


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Sure. But what they have done is calculate the max production of a 1200wp solar system 100% south facing at a decent angle. That's about 5kWh per day on a very good day in the middle of summer. Good for about 30km sure I'll accept that.

    But unfortunately the panels are all over the shop mostly producing very little. The advertising is misleading. And because of this the project does not come across as trustworthy to me. They could have shaved a thousand euro off the price by not having the gimmicky solar panels

    Very strange that everyone on the Youtube comments seems to lap it up, I can't see any serious questions or criticism there. It seems people reckon the solar alone will be enough for their 12k km annual commute. A truly self charging car :D

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 72,647 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    You’d have to wash the car a few times a day to keep the solar panels working.

    Also, I will eat my hat if this makes mass production.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,396 ✭✭✭ Alkers


    One video states that the real world range from solar is 30km per day and that theoretically much more is possible but they didn't want people to have unrealistic expectations - so it does seem they expect that to be the case


  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭ axe2grind


    tow bar standard...
    something that is lacking from the current crop apart from MX


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    One video states that the real world range from solar is 30km per day and that theoretically much more is possible but they didn't want people to have unrealistic expectations - so it does seem they expect that to be the case

    It's simply not possible Simona. Not even on paper. Have a read of a few PV threads in the renewable energies forum and you will get a good idea of what maximum production per day / month / year is like per kwp

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭ lampsie


    genuine question ...with brexit coming, I wonder if they will bother with a right hand side version?


  • Registered Users Posts: 611 ✭✭✭ slicedpanman




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ Mike9832


    the video was shot last summer. A lot has happened since then. Here is an update:

    - The motor will be FWD and supplied by Continental
    - The connectivity module will be supplied by BOSCH, which enables carSharing and rideSharing
    - The battery (35 kWh, liquid cooled) will be produced in Germany by ElringKlinger
    - The Sion has a range of 250 km (255 km WLTP/ 320 km NEDC)
    - We use highly efficient, monocrystalline silicon cells for the solar modules. A total of 330 cells can generate a maximum power of 1,204 watts with 24 percent efficiency. This results in up to 30 km additional range through the sun. Perfect for commuters!
    - The price of the Sion is 16.000€ without battery. Battery included 25.500€. Battery rental or leasing possible.
    - The prototype from the video shows the development status of about 2 years ago. Check our website to see the current status + facts:

    At 25.5k

    Doesn't look too competitive

    Price kings VW have them well beat already


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    The solar cells all around are a gimmick that makes the car unnecessarily expensive. What a missed opportunity. And I find it hard to believe their claims of the solar output. Show me the car generating 1200W, it won't. Not even in a very sunny warm country on the sunniest day of the year at noon.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    The one redeeming feature is the power output. They mention the AC output on the normal household socket is max 3kW. And presumably the car does not have to be switched on for that. That would power your house in an emergency. And not just the very basic stuff like internet, tv and phone chargers. You could switch on your washing machine, your hoover, your dishwasher etc. (one or two at a time max)

    And possibly a biggie, a game changer, the type 2 AC out. They don't give any details unfortunately apart from mentioning V2G. Not sure either why they have a different connection for this. Could they not have used the type 2 AC in for a bi-directional system?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    The lightyear one calculator reckons I can get 40% of milage from solar with just 24 charges a year...believe it when I see it, price is off putting though.. https://lightyear.one


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    We should probably have a separate thread for the lightyear one. I find the details quite vague. The one figure that stands out is the claim of it charging at 550km/h on a 50kW charger. This implies a consumption of just 9kWh/100km

    The most efficient car ever tested by the EPA in the USA is the Hyundai Ioniq EV, which at 100km/h would use about 11kWh/100km in perfect circumstances. The lightyear one claims to be far more efficient than that.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,654 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    unkel wrote: »
    The solar cells all around are a gimmick that makes the car unnecessarily expensive. What a missed opportunity. And I find it hard to believe their claims of the solar output. Show me the car generating 1200W, it won't. Not even in a very sunny warm country on the sunniest day of the year at noon.

    Tbf don't dismiss something until you have the facts of it. You haven't seen anything about output of the coverage of their cells you should be more inquisitive than dismissive at this point.

    Throwing shade ... Excuse the pun... On ideas is silly and does no one any good.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    I'd like to see the good of it, I really do. But the solar claim is just silly. To give you some facts. They claim they have 7m2 of solar PV. A standard fixed panel is 164cm*99cm, or for your 7m2 you get 4.3 panels, or indeed about 1200wp. So far so good.

    Problem is that most of those panels are vertical - sides, front and back of the car (this is very poor for solar) and only the roof, bonnet and hood are horizontal, which is ok for solar. Even if one side of the car is pointing straight south, the vertical panels will produce relatively little and the panels on the north facing other side of the car will produce almost zero

    Even in perfect circumstances, I can not see the car produce more than 600W (at a stretch). Most of the time it will produce only a tiny fraction of the 1200W claimed.

    They don't help themselves by claiming 24% efficiency either. The best panels are fixed (rigid) panels and the best of the best are about 19-20% efficient. The (at least semi-flexible) panels they must have used on the car will be far less efficient than that...

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    They also claim it will always stay going which I can't really figure out. What happens at night is there still solar energy coming from the sky/moon.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Output of solar PV is down to zero long before any human would realise dusk is getting close

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Just looking into the cells looks like it's using the same as the race cars which is GaAs they should get 28%+ effecincy from them. https://www.altadevices.com/technology/


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,467 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Seems Audi are going to put some in their roofs https://www.altadevices.com/automotive/


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,874 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    It seems Sono motors is not quite dead. I'm sure we had a more recent thread on this when they desperately tried to raise money, but I can't find it. Covered today by Fully Charged. Admirable car, the CEO / founder actually confirmed the solar cells directly charge the HV battery (so not a gimmick like the solar panels on any other EV). Would love to see some tech specs on that.


    Also confirmed that the price of the car is €21k before any taxes or incentives. That is pretty good for well over 50kWh of usable battery. And of course that very exciting bi-directional 3ph charger (11kW AC in or out)



    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Moderators Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    Portable 11kW charger. Great selling point in Ireland! Ecars will start claiming them as charging points on the island.

    Not the prettiest thing by any stretch, and seems pretty basic everywhere, but if it's mid 20s, free to drive, you can have a regular source of income via portable charging (wild Atlantic way locations), and there's always the option to run your house from it (though there's big up front costs) it's perhaps a good deal economically.



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