Sion

Sabre Man · 27-07-2017 12:55pm #1

https://electrek.co/2017/07/27/new-electric-cars-steal-tesla-model-3s-spotlight-unveilings/

https://electrek.co/2016/09/02/sono-motors-sion-solarcar-crowdfunded/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4zidi2DEUs

https://www.sonomotors.com/

Release event 20:45 CET today

peasant · 08-09-2018 8:50pm

€ 16.000 + € 4.000 for the battery
250 km on a full charge
serial production from 2019

dutch with english subttiles

https://sonomotors.com/

unkel · 08-09-2018 10:08pm

I presume €20k is a rough price incl EU VAT but before incentives? The Irish subsidy on a €19k-€20k car is €4.5k which would bring the car down to about €15k which might make it interesting for some people. Still a lot of money for a great unknown.

ELM327 · 09-09-2018 8:23am

€15k for an EV with 250km range (reduce to say 200k in real world) and that should sell like hotcakes here.
Remember how many Irish people bought Fiat Puntos in the early noughties even though the Irish hate fiats. Cheap brand new cars will always sell.

unkel · 09-09-2018 4:12pm

£8k on the road price for a Punto SX in the mid 90s with scrappage

ELM327 · 09-09-2018 4:21pm

unkel wrote: »

£8k on the road price for a Punto SX in the mid 90s with scrappage

My parents bought one in 2000 for the 00 reg :rolleyes:
00KE 7063 (I think..)
It's actually visible on streetview outside their house

"open book pricing"

But yeah, Paddy loves him a cheap new car. And for that reason I think that scion will sell well here.

Pkiernan · 09-09-2018 4:22pm

I watched the English youtube vid above.

I'd buy that car.

unkel · 09-09-2018 4:41pm

It's a pity they stuck the solar panels on. They're a gimmick. Vertically placed solar panels, LOL! They could have shaved the guts of a grand from the price of the car without the panels.

V2G feature is very interesting though. Need to know more about the specs. Max wattage?

peasant · 09-09-2018 4:46pm

But it's a hybrid, you see ...the first ever solar-electric hybrid

Seriously though...up to 30 km (in ideal conditions) on solar only, that's not to be sniffed at

(be 0.3 km in NW Ireland though)

unkel · 09-09-2018 5:04pm

peasant wrote: »

Seriously though...up to 30 km (in ideal conditions)

It's a made up figure. Unless the sun shines on the vehicle from all directions at once :rolleyes:

Same reason them mentioning it has 1200wp is completely pointless. a solar panel might have a certain watt peak level, but turned away from the sun it produces nothing

DesperateDan · 09-09-2018 6:42pm

Solar panels do generate power from ambient, indirect light photons though. I think on a cloudy day the roof would generate just as much as the side panels (40% efficiency compared to a sunny day)

unkel · 09-09-2018 7:42pm

Sure. But what they have done is calculate the max production of a 1200wp solar system 100% south facing at a decent angle. That's about 5kWh per day on a very good day in the middle of summer. Good for about 30km sure I'll accept that.

But unfortunately the panels are all over the shop mostly producing very little. The advertising is misleading. And because of this the project does not come across as trustworthy to me. They could have shaved a thousand euro off the price by not having the gimmicky solar panels

Very strange that everyone on the Youtube comments seems to lap it up, I can't see any serious questions or criticism there. It seems people reckon the solar alone will be enough for their 12k km annual commute. A truly self charging car

colm_mcm · 09-09-2018 8:28pm

You’d have to wash the car a few times a day to keep the solar panels working.

Also, I will eat my hat if this makes mass production.

Alkers · 09-09-2018 10:36pm

One video states that the real world range from solar is 30km per day and that theoretically much more is possible but they didn't want people to have unrealistic expectations - so it does seem they expect that to be the case

axe2grind · 09-09-2018 10:51pm

tow bar standard...
something that is lacking from the current crop apart from MX

unkel · 09-09-2018 11:34pm

Simona1986 wrote: »

One video states that the real world range from solar is 30km per day and that theoretically much more is possible but they didn't want people to have unrealistic expectations - so it does seem they expect that to be the case

It's simply not possible Simona. Not even on paper. Have a read of a few PV threads in the renewable energies forum and you will get a good idea of what maximum production per day / month / year is like per kwp

lampsie · 10-09-2018 12:58am

genuine question ...with brexit coming, I wonder if they will bother with a right hand side version?

slicedpanman · 10-02-2019 10:07pm

Mike9832 · 10-02-2019 10:21pm

the video was shot last summer. A lot has happened since then. Here is an update:

- The motor will be FWD and supplied by Continental
- The connectivity module will be supplied by BOSCH, which enables carSharing and rideSharing
- The battery (35 kWh, liquid cooled) will be produced in Germany by ElringKlinger
- The Sion has a range of 250 km (255 km WLTP/ 320 km NEDC)
- We use highly efficient, monocrystalline silicon cells for the solar modules. A total of 330 cells can generate a maximum power of 1,204 watts with 24 percent efficiency. This results in up to 30 km additional range through the sun. Perfect for commuters!
- The price of the Sion is 16.000€ without battery. Battery included 25.500€. Battery rental or leasing possible.
- The prototype from the video shows the development status of about 2 years ago. Check our website to see the current status + facts:

At 25.5k

Doesn't look too competitive

Price kings VW have them well beat already

unkel · 10-02-2019 10:47pm

The solar cells all around are a gimmick that makes the car unnecessarily expensive. What a missed opportunity. And I find it hard to believe their claims of the solar output. Show me the car generating 1200W, it won't. Not even in a very sunny warm country on the sunniest day of the year at noon.

unkel · 10-02-2019 11:18pm

The one redeeming feature is the power output. They mention the AC output on the normal household socket is max 3kW. And presumably the car does not have to be switched on for that. That would power your house in an emergency. And not just the very basic stuff like internet, tv and phone chargers. You could switch on your washing machine, your hoover, your dishwasher etc. (one or two at a time max)

And possibly a biggie, a game changer, the type 2 AC out. They don't give any details unfortunately apart from mentioning V2G. Not sure either why they have a different connection for this. Could they not have used the type 2 AC in for a bi-directional system?

drunkmonkey · 10-02-2019 11:29pm

The lightyear one calculator reckons I can get 40% of milage from solar with just 24 charges a year...believe it when I see it, price is off putting though.. https://lightyear.one

unkel · 11-02-2019 12:06am

We should probably have a separate thread for the lightyear one. I find the details quite vague. The one figure that stands out is the claim of it charging at 550km/h on a 50kW charger. This implies a consumption of just 9kWh/100km

The most efficient car ever tested by the EPA in the USA is the Hyundai Ioniq EV, which at 100km/h would use about 11kWh/100km in perfect circumstances. The lightyear one claims to be far more efficient than that.

listermint · 11-02-2019 12:12am

unkel wrote: »

The solar cells all around are a gimmick that makes the car unnecessarily expensive. What a missed opportunity. And I find it hard to believe their claims of the solar output. Show me the car generating 1200W, it won't. Not even in a very sunny warm country on the sunniest day of the year at noon.

Tbf don't dismiss something until you have the facts of it. You haven't seen anything about output of the coverage of their cells you should be more inquisitive than dismissive at this point.

Throwing shade ... Excuse the pun... On ideas is silly and does no one any good.

unkel · 11-02-2019 12:31am

I'd like to see the good of it, I really do. But the solar claim is just silly. To give you some facts. They claim they have 7m2 of solar PV. A standard fixed panel is 164cm*99cm, or for your 7m2 you get 4.3 panels, or indeed about 1200wp. So far so good.

Problem is that most of those panels are vertical - sides, front and back of the car (this is very poor for solar) and only the roof, bonnet and hood are horizontal, which is ok for solar. Even if one side of the car is pointing straight south, the vertical panels will produce relatively little and the panels on the north facing other side of the car will produce almost zero

Even in perfect circumstances, I can not see the car produce more than 600W (at a stretch). Most of the time it will produce only a tiny fraction of the 1200W claimed.

They don't help themselves by claiming 24% efficiency either. The best panels are fixed (rigid) panels and the best of the best are about 19-20% efficient. The (at least semi-flexible) panels they must have used on the car will be far less efficient than that...

drunkmonkey · 11-02-2019 12:33am

They also claim it will always stay going which I can't really figure out. What happens at night is there still solar energy coming from the sky/moon.

unkel · 11-02-2019 12:35am

Output of solar PV is down to zero long before any human would realise dusk is getting close

drunkmonkey · 11-02-2019 12:48am

Just looking into the cells looks like it's using the same as the race cars which is GaAs they should get 28%+ effecincy from them. https://www.altadevices.com/technology/

drunkmonkey · 11-02-2019 12:50am

Seems Audi are going to put some in their roofs https://www.altadevices.com/automotive/

unkel · 01-10-2021 12:20am

It seems Sono motors is not quite dead. I'm sure we had a more recent thread on this when they desperately tried to raise money, but I can't find it. Covered today by Fully Charged. Admirable car, the CEO / founder actually confirmed the solar cells directly charge the HV battery (so not a gimmick like the solar panels on any other EV). Would love to see some tech specs on that.

Also confirmed that the price of the car is €21k before any taxes or incentives. That is pretty good for well over 50kWh of usable battery. And of course that very exciting bi-directional 3ph charger (11kW AC in or out)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5LKU6bWScc

Black_Knight · 01-10-2021 7:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961441#Comment_117961441

Portable 11kW charger. Great selling point in Ireland! Ecars will start claiming them as charging points on the island.

Not the prettiest thing by any stretch, and seems pretty basic everywhere, but if it's mid 20s, free to drive, you can have a regular source of income via portable charging (wild Atlantic way locations), and there's always the option to run your house from it (though there's big up front costs) it's perhaps a good deal economically.

AndyBoBandy · 01-10-2021 5:08pm

Watched that video, and fair fcuks to them..... Every manufacturer started somewhere..

It charges while driving.... well, it continues to add watts to the battery, which would reduce your overall consumption figures.....For someone doing small daily driving, this would be brilliant. Probably only need a charge once a week..

unkel · 09-01-2023 8:17pm

Company has now resorted to asking people to pay up front for their car in full.

I wouldn't.

11-01-2023 1:52pm

If there ever was a danger sign! It's a pity as the product was making many right sounds. I suspect they should have dropped the solar shell early in the planning stage as the technology behind the manufacturing process was/is not easy to master. Just replace the panels with i3 type ones and bring it to market with a bit reduced price. With the current market they would have been able to cash in.

liamog · 11-01-2023 1:59pm

Would there be any point in the Sion without the solar body, it was kind of it's only gimmick.

unkel · 11-01-2023 2:16pm

Even if the Sion fails, the company will survive with solar body tech, they said so themselves a few days ago. They've raised several hundred million dollars, I fail to see why or how they need another few million. The two founders did their best explaining it to Zac and Jesse Cataldo, but I wasn't really buying it

liamog · 25-02-2023 12:59am

Looks like they've officially ended the car and will now focus on the tech and acting as an OEM

"Effective today, the company will pivot its business model to "exclusively retrofitting and integrating its solar technology onto third party vehicles." Sono Motors says the termination of the Sion program reflects a decision "to focus on a capital-light business model in light of depressed capital market conditions.""

unkel · 25-02-2023 1:08am

Was inevitable really.

Not quite sure how or why anyone would be interested in their - no doubt very good - solutions for body integrated solar panels though. From an investor's point of view that is. Personally I would love to have a car that would do all the daily driving because of solar panels in it, that you'd never have to charge. Would it work? For sure it would. In the likes of California. Provided of course that the car is parked in full sunlight at all times.

liamog · 25-02-2023 1:13am

Depends on if they have any patents, body integrated solar outside of private passenger vehicles could serve some use. A ferry with the tech could prob have an impact on diesel generator usage for the onboard electrics

unkel · 25-02-2023 1:17am

I fail to see how they would have got any patents for this. And it doesn't matter if they did or didn't. It would always be much cheaper to just physically mount PV rather than trying to be clever and integrate it into building materials. Tesla tried that with the roof tiles, we haven't heard an awful lot about that since.

I say just mount as many standard panels as you can, be good to the environment and be best to your wallet! 😁

kanuseeme · 25-02-2023 1:27am

Seemingly Toyota started in 2010 putting solar panels to help with climate control, but only in 2017 did it charge the battery in the phev version, I fail to see how they will offer anything new or useful, it cannot be that hard to slap a panel on a car, boat, or anything

https://electrek.co/2016/06/20/toyota-prius-plug-prime-solar-panel/

slave1 · 25-02-2023 6:04am

and the wonderful Nissan Leaf had a small solar panel too as an option on the early models, trickle charged the 12v from memory as the HV battery did not

unkel · 25-02-2023 1:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120285912#Comment_120285912

Zero details in there about how it powers the HV battery. Not that easy as you would need a lot of solar PV panels in series to come up to the voltage required. Or use other trickery for that. I'll take that with a large pinch of salt

Far more impressive is the first comment on that article. It states: "their (Toyota's) lack of any BEV pursuits tells me they're in serious long-term trouble."

That was from 7 years ago! And nothing still has changed. That poster was spot on. Toyota had all that time, but haven't done anything. And now they are almost doomed to go bankrupt.

AMKC · 25-02-2023 1:25pm

There is a canal badge parked up in the harbour near where I live I it has solar panels fitted to it. It never seems to go anywhere do it's always in the harbour which is crazy.

A pity about SION. I guess they just could not make it work.

kanuseeme · 26-02-2023 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286738#Comment_120286738

Just came across this, looking for solar panels,

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-prius-sunroof-solar-panel-low-mileage/33297912

I cannot imagine that panel producing any more than 100 watts, very small and 12 year old tech, the point I was trying to make that sticking panels on cars etc., is not a new idea and cannot be that difficult.

That car 2017 phev sold in japan for a little over 8000 euro, they do exist but seemingly only charge when parked.

27-02-2023 10:42am

Let me introduce the SAAB EV-1 from 1985 with solar panel roof to run cabin cooling when parked. EV stands for "Experimental Vehicle" so not a BEV :-)

Sion

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