Heavyweight Boxing

Mantis Toboggan

Some smack from Wilder, took a little longer than expected. Can anyone rival him for the one punch KO power?

wadacrack

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Some smack from Wilder, took a little longer than expected. Can anyone rival him for the one punch KO power?

Current fighters No, of all time probably not

squinn2912

walshb wrote: »

Ok. When he hits deck to time he on his feet was looking like 10-11 seconds to me, on a clock!

Anyway, he beat the “count.” That is all that matters. The count is not exact time. It’s a referee counting.

Ortiz didn’t get nearly as long to prove he wasn’t hurt. But he was very hurt. If he’d made it up at 9 should the fight have been waved anyway? I thought the red a slight bit eager. But allowing him out for the 8th May have been the difference in walking out of the ring and being carried out.

normanoffside

Morrison J wrote: »

Use the fight thread lads ffs.

Yes this!
It's a bit annoying having fight discussion happening in 2 places.

Nika Bolokov

Whatever about the who's and what's of Wilders skill, I got a biography of the man on Amazon , Jesus he's had some life story.

BDI

Wilders brothers fight was crazy.

simongurnick

squinn2912 wrote: »

Very likeable fella yea. Plenty of show but he was more than gracious and made a bang on point about Ortiz. None of the other guys fancied him.
What’s the situation with his daughter?

Think his eldest has spina bifida. But she was born when deontay was just coming out of school. Gave up going to college so he could work and earn money and then embarked on the boxing career

SHOVELLER

Blanco100 wrote: »

Completely agree with your description. Really like Bellew in this kind of mode and let him speak honestly aswell.

Froch is pointless, recounts his own experience (10% to apply it given situation, 90% to relive glories in his own head). Love to see Andy Lee in there instead of him

While I agree with your last point there from the broadcaster's point of view they need somebody like that precisely because of this. We are talking about him! He generates controversy.

For such a solid professional he does come across as insecure as was touched on here and his comments on NASA and flat earth either shows trump like stupidity or he is on an eternal wind up.

Anyway Wilder fight here didnt start til after midnight so fair play to anyone at home who rose or stayed up for it. A fitter Ortiz was dominating until he got splattered and that is no surprise as that is Wilder's game plan. Always dangerous and you could see him trying to set up shots. Some may call him limited but that right hand is explosive. Not as spectacular as the Breazale wipe out I saw live but still effective against a very tough, experienced operator.

As for his post fight comments yes fair play but this is also the guy who did not apologise for wanting a body on his record. Which is obviously a disgraceful thing to say in any arena.

squinn2912

SHOVELLER wrote: »

While I agree with your last point there from the broadcaster's point of view they need somebody like that precisely because of this. We are talking about him! He generates controversy.

For such a solid professional he does come across as insecure as was touched on here and his comments on NASA and flat earth either shows trump like stupidity or he is on an eternal wind up.

Anyway Wilder fight here didnt start til after midnight so fair play to anyone at home who rose or stayed up for it. A fitter Ortiz was dominating until he got splattered and that is no surprise as that is Wilder's game plan. Always dangerous and you could see him trying to set up shots. Some may call him limited but that right hand is explosive. Not as spectacular as the Breazale wipe out I saw live but still effective against a very tough, experienced operator.

As for his post fight comments yes fair play but this is also the guy who did not apologise for wanting a body on his record. Which is obviously a disgraceful thing to say in any arena.

That’s a brilliant post. Not going to even talk about froch he’s a donkey.
I got up and I’m delighted I did the fight was excellent. Mistimed it a bit and as a “punishment” I had to watch LSC become 4 weight wc. What a fighter. Wilder is crude, limited but extremely effective. His long long arms keep opponents off and when he sees his chance he’s lightning. Ortiz gave him 2 seconds of initiative and he flattened him. Not a huge mistake the power he generated in that 1-2 was astonishing. I thought it was much more impressive than Breazeale because he was getting schooled until then and it was against a real top operator.

I don’t like the bodybag comment at all. I think he regrets it and wants to ignore it rather than looking stupid apologising. Some time he will. I thought he spoke very well about Ortiz afterwards.

nacho libre

Wilder And Ortiz seem to share a kinship through their daughters respective disabilities. I think that was part of the reason for giving RUIZ a rematch. I feel Wilders ring smarts are underrated. He was patience, yes Ruiz tired slightly, but Wilder had the ability to see the opening and close the show. He has to be considered as one of the most powerful one punch fighters of all time. I think Fury's undertaker like recovery was a once off, but Fury will be fitter and sharper and won't switch off, so i can see him winning on points in the rematch.
I won't begruge Wilder if he does beat Fury and goes on to unify, as despite the silly comment he made about Brezeale, he seems a genuine guy who has time for everyone he meets.

Kilboor

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Some smack from Wilder, took a little longer than expected. Can anyone rival him for the one punch KO power?

Julian Jackson? P4P speaking

yourdeadwright

I know Ben Davison gets a bit of a hard time but I seen an interview with him on Friday and he called the Wilder v Ortiz fight exactly how it played it pretty impressive,

Wilder is a decent boxer nothing more but his power is insane ,
Must be soul breaking to know you can out box him for 12 rounds but any second from the first bell to he last he can end you with one shot,

I know people love hype but surely no one has ever hit as hard with one shot ?
He doesn't even wind them up just one straight right is enough to take your soul

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I know Ben Davison gets a bit of a hard time but I seen an interview with him on Friday and he called the Wilder v Ortiz fight exactly how it played it pretty impressive,

Wilder is a decent boxer nothing more but his power is insane ,
Must be soul breaking to know you can out box him for 12 rounds but any second from the first bell to he last he can end you with one shot,

I know people love hype but surely no one has ever hit as hard with one shot ?
He doesn't even wind them up just one straight right is enough to take your soul

I think the 'hit harder than anyone' argument/discussion is just pointless....

Personally I think Lennox Lewis probably generated the single greatest force from any one single punch....

Of course, I cannot know this...

Lewis was also a far better overall puncher than Wilder.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

I think the 'hit harder than anyone' argument/discussion is just pointless....

Personally I think Lennox Lewis probably generated the single greatest force from any one single punch....

Of course, I cannot know this...

Lewis was also a far better overall puncher than Wilder.

Ye impossible to really know


Personally as big of a puncher as Lennox was I don't think he is close to Wilder for sheer one punch KO power, He has dropped everyone he has ever fought and his ko's are brutal ,


Ps i think Lennox is a far far better fighter ,

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ye impossible to really know


Personally as big of a puncher as Lennox was I don't think he is close to Wilder for sheer one punch KO power, He has dropped everyone he has ever fought and his ko's are brutal ,


Ps i think Lennox is a far far better fighter ,

When you say you don't think Lewis is close, is where I would have an issue....

It implies that Wilder is clearly a harder single shot hitter...We can't know this.

I do believe that the older and heavier Lewis generated more power than the "skinnier" and younger Lewis...

I'd argue that the right and cross hook that decimated Rahman in fight 2 was as heavy as the right hand that Wilder dropped Kelvin Price with.

walshb

If Lewis isn't close, someone has to be, and some very very close....

Wilder can't be simply out on his own with no rival.

Unless I am missing something really obvious.

RocketRaccoon

Tyson?
Dubois?

walshb

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Tyson?

I would say absolutely close....

Punch power/force has a number of factors.....

I reckon Wilder has a very very high score in terms of effortlessness. His hands are just very heavy; similar to Foreman.

Tyson has heavy hands, but it's his technique and speed and delivery that generated the power and force.

The Nal

normanoffside

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Tyson?
Dubois?

I honestly don't think Tyson had anywhere near the 1 punch power of Wilder.
Yes he hit hard but he tended to throw combinations and break down the opponents a bit more.
He was an excellent boxer.

Dubois- it's way too early to be assessing him. Need to see how he does against better opponents.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

If Lewis isn't close, someone has to be, and some very very close....

Wilder can't be simply out on his own with no rival.

Unless I am missing something really obvious.

That what im saying personally iv never seen anyone close to him ,

yes I agree Lennox had huge power but Wilder is literally taking someone's should every single fight, even his draw with Fury the knock down was ferocious,


Mike Tyson broke people down with numerous shots in quick bursts , yes he has a few one punch ko's but no where near as regular as Wilder,


Foreman had massive one shot power but again not in the frequency as Wilder,

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

I honestly don't think Tyson had anywhere near the 1 punch power of Wilder.
Yes he hit hard but he tended to throw combinations and break down the opponents a bit more.
He was an excellent boxer.

Dubois- it's way too early to be assessing him. Need to see how he does against better opponents.

I'd argue that the shot he dropped Holmes with for KD 1 was right up there with any Wilder shot.

That is why I made a distinction with Tyson and Wilder. Wilder more effortlessly heavy handed. Tyson's fore/power was heavy hands and excellent technique.

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

That what im saying personally iv never seen anyone close to him ,

yes I agree Lennox had huge power but Wilder is literally taking someone's should every single fight, even his draw with Fury the knock down was ferocious,


Mike Tyson broke people down with numerous shots in quick bursts , yes he has a few one punch ko's but no where near as regular as Wilder,


Foreman had massive one shot power but again not in the frequency as Wilder,

I disagree on the Fury shot. And I am not alone. It was a good shot, but not near the force he can generate. He throws far harder with the straighter right hands...

If he hits Fury like he hit Ortiz, or god forbid, Price, then Fury is out for the count....

The Nal

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Foreman had massive one shot power but again not in the frequency as Wilder,

Hmm not so sure about that. Foreman threw a lot more and was inaccurate but when he landed that was usually that.

normanoffside

walshb wrote: »

I'd argue that the shot he dropped Holmes with for KD 1 was right up there with any Wilder shot.

That is why I made a distinction with Tyson and Wilder. Wilder more effortlessly heavy handed. Tyson's fore/power was heavy hands and excellent technique.

I think the difference here with Wilder vs other Heavy handed punchers (Tyson, Lewis, Foreman etc) is that Wilder's sole tactic is to set up one big shot.

The other guys hit heavy but also boxed and worked other types of openings. They could win on points if needs be.

Maybe if a Lewis or a Foreman had employed Wilder's tactics of just waiting on the outside for 1 big shot, then they might have had a similar record of KO's. (I don't think that style would have suited Tyson being so short).

What I noticed on Saturday night was wilder's complete lack of Jab. For such a long armed fighter he could easily rack up rounds by just throwing the jab with some force and regularity and it wouldn't affect his overall tactic. But he is just not interested in racking up points at all.

The Nal

normanoffside wrote: »

I think the difference here with Wilder vs other Heavy handed punchers (Tyson, Lewis, Foreman etc) is that Wilder's sole tactic is to set up one big shot.

The other guys hit heavy but also boxed and worked other types of openings. They could win on points if needs be.

Maybe if a Lewis or a Foreman had employed Wilder's tactics of just waiting on the outside for 1 big shot, then they might have had a similar record of KO's.

68 of Foremans 76 wins came via KO. Vlad KO'd everyone up until his career was winding down in his late 30s.

Either way Wilder is great to watch as a result. Will happily lose 6 or 7 rounds just waiting for the opportunity for that one punch.

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

I think the difference here with Wilder vs other Heavy handed punchers (Tyson, Lewis, Foreman etc) is that Wilder's sole tactic is to set up one big shot.

The other guys hit heavy but also boxed and worked other types of openings. They could win on points if needs be.

Maybe if a Lewis or a Foreman had employed Wilder's tactics of just waiting on the outside for 1 big shot, then they might have had a similar record of KO's. (I don't think that style would have suited Tyson being so short).

What I noticed on Saturday night was wilder's complete lack of Jab. For such a long armed fighter he could easily rack up rounds by just throwing the jab with some force and regularity and it wouldn't affect his overall tactic. But he is just not interested in racking up points at all.

Well, here is the thing with boxrec..

I would make a strong case that LL has a perfect KO win record against all Wilder's opponents, and he absolutely flattens Fury.

Tyson and Formean, too, could well have 42 KOs if they met all Wilder's opponents.

Now, the reverse....Wilder likely does not have the same really high KO percentage IF faced with Foreman's opponents and Lewis's and Tyson's...and he gets beaten as well.

normanoffside

The Nal wrote: »

68 of Foremans 76 wins came via KO. Vlad KO'd everyone up until his career was winding down in his late 30s.

Either way Wilder is great to watch as a result. Will happily lose 6 or 7 rounds just waiting for the opportunity for that one punch.

Yeah I have to say although the rounds are boring to watch there is definitely an air of anticipation of something about to happen.
It also helps that he seems vulnerable enough himself and it's his vulnerability that seems to catch his opponents off guard. Ortiz looked to have Hurt Wilder a bit just before he got sparked and therefore he took his eye of the ball for a second.

walshb

The Nal wrote: »

Hmm not so sure about that. Foreman threw a lot more and was inaccurate but when he landed that was usually that.

Foreman had deadly accuracy when he wanted. He simply threw a fair amount....

Watch him land so much on a very short and bob and weave Frazier; also, his clinical and accurate dispatching of Cooney and Norton.

normanoffside

walshb wrote: »

Well, here is the thing with boxrec..

I would make a strong case that LL has a perfect KO win record against all Wilder's opponents, and he absolutely flattens Fury.

Tyson and Formean, too, could well have 42 KOs if they met all Wilder's.

Agreed, but you have to admit that Ortiz has the air of a sturdy enough fellow about him.
Never been hurt by anyone but wilder and in this case he is gone with 1 punch.
It was something like when Hearns KO'ed Duran (Duran always having a sturdy beard)- OK i am not comparing Duran to Ortiz but you get the point.

Even Brezeale hasn't appeared to be weak chinned against anyone but Wilder. He took plenty from AJ and lasted 7 rounds.