new etci rules re; T+E cable sep 2017

evosteo

The new rules are coming into effect soon. Has anybody used the new T&E cable yet? Would it be fair to say its adding approx 10% onto the price of a job due to the increased cost of materials?

Sleeper12

evosteo wrote:

The new rules are coming into effect soon. Has anybody used the new T&E cable yet? Would it be fair to say its adding approx 10% onto the price of a job due to the increased cost of materials?

Is the new cable 10% more expensive?

evosteo

I havent used it myself yet. Not sure on cost per cable size. 10% is just a guestimate

Tuco88

Are the talks of a new regs book true?

Is it an Irish company producing the cable, as far as I am aware it's not a standard in the UK but I know they have a new regs book coming.

Intresting to see the cost difference of new T+E vs NYM-J.

Steve

Interesting.

From a certain wholesaler's website:
Old spec:
2.5 Sq mm Blue/Brown 100M €49.49 ex VAT

New spec (insulated PE):
2.5 Sq mm Blue/Brown 100M €79.35 ex VAT

Edit - NYM-j is still dearer:
2.5 Sq mm 3 METRE €1.23 ex VAT (€123/100m)

JonnyM

Different sized wavin will have to be used aswell not much in price difference there.

Will save time I'm sure when terminating as you won't need earth sleeving.

evosteo

Steve wrote: »

Interesting.

From a certain wholesaler's website:
Old spec:
2.5 Sq mm Blue/Brown 100M €49.49 ex VAT

New spec (insulated PE):
2.5 Sq mm Blue/Brown 100M €79.35 ex VAT

Edit - NYM-j is still dearer:
2.5 Sq mm 3 METRE €1.23 ex VAT (€123/100m)

Jesus thats some mark up on price. 30% odd dearer. I never even considered the increased size will cause capacity issues in oval and round conduit especially if walls have to be chased etc. In a domestic setting

evosteo

Tuco88 wrote: »

Are the talks of a new regs book true?

Is it an Irish company producing the cable, as far as I am aware it's not a standard in the UK but I kno we they have a new regs book coming.

Intresting to see the cost difference of new T+E vs NYM-J.

1st iv heard of a new reg book. Havent the etci been disbanded and the upgraded PE in T+E been their parting gift?

Tuco88

Yes the ETCI have dissolved. Somebody mentioned it here once of a new book, I think it was an apprentice going fas.

Stoner

Tuco88 wrote:

Yes the ETCI have dissolved. Somebody mentioned it here once of a new book, I think it was an apprentice going fas.

From the NSAI

Robbie.G

I was in Cef yesterday and they were saying around 30% difference in both
And what were they going to do with old stock as in my branch they have around 40k in stock

sky6

What's the Difference between new and old ?.

Risteard81

sky6 wrote: »

What's the Difference between new and old ?.

The cpc will be of the same csa as the live conductors and will also be insulated.

evosteo

Here a link to somemore info on the kellihers wholesale site

http://kellihers.com/news/new-twin-earth-wiring-rules/

stiofan85

While renovating recently I ran a 6sqmm T&E from the fuse board (unconnected) to the back of the kitchen in anticipation of running power to a shed next year. This is the old type of T&E mentioned here.

Would it now be against the regs to use it to run power to a shed?

Steve

stiofan85 wrote: »

While renovating recently I ran a 6sqmm T&E from the fuse board (unconnected) to the back of the kitchen in anticipation of running power to a shed next year. This is the old type of T&E mentioned here.

Would it now be against the regs to use it to run power to a shed?

New regs kick in in September, you're fine.

Dardania

What's the driver for this change. My memory is rusty (last looked at this about 8 years ago when dealing with a Swedish SWA CPC setup), but from what I recall, the earth CSA is sized based on the fault current from the phase. Are fault currents increasing or something?

Risteard81

Dardania wrote: »

What's the driver for this change. My memory is rusty (last looked at this about 8 years ago when dealing with a Swedish SWA CPC setup), but from what I recall, the earth CSA is sized based on the fault current from the phase. Are fault currents increasing or something?

Probably arising more out of harmonisation than anything else. The fault currents will vary by installation and therefore when using T&E with a reduced csa cpc the adequacy of the cpc should be verified via the adiabatic equation (S = sq rt((I^2)t)/k) - this is obviously generally met in domestic installations with low prospective fault currents.

Another advantage of the full sized cpc is that it will reduce touch voltage as well during a fault.

Any excess stock old-style T&E cable could still be sold into the north.

exaisle

evosteo wrote: »

The new rules are coming into effect soon. Has anybody used the new T&E cable yet? Would it be fair to say its adding approx 10% onto the price of a job due to the increased cost of materials?

How much more expensive is the new type cable?

How much is T&E cable as a proportion of a total job?

exaisle

evosteo wrote: »

Jesus thats some mark up on price. 30% odd dearer. I never even considered the increased size will cause capacity issues in oval and round conduit especially if walls have to be chased etc. In a domestic setting

That's 60% dearer..or an increase of 60% on 49.49 per metre

Bruthal

Risteard81 wrote: »

Another advantage of the full sized cpc is that it will reduce touch voltage as well during a fault.

Any example of where that will become meaningful?

evosteo

i was speaking to a contractor friend of mine about the new regs coming into force soon. he mentioned to me about upgrading the standard 10mm2 earth cable to 16mm2 in a domestic set up (earth rod, hotpress, boiler, gas meter, water). i was thinking to myself that this was overkill or did i miss some new reg introduction?

he said it should be the same size csa as the new upgraded 16mm2 T+E cable????

Bruthal

evosteo wrote: »

i was speaking to a contractor friend of mine about the new regs coming into force soon. he mentioned to me about upgrading the standard 10mm2 earth cable to 16mm2 in a domestic set up (earth rod, hotpress, boiler, gas meter, water). i was thinking to myself that this was overkill or did i miss some new reg introduction?

he said it should be the same size csa as the new upgraded 16mm2 T+E cable????

16 square for bonding and earth rod would be way overkill in domestic installations.

evosteo

Bruthal wrote: »

16 square for bonding and earth rod would be way overkill in domestic installations.

Completly agree

Mondo44

How are 2 10mm earth wires from 10 squared t&e going to fit in a shower pull cord with one earth connector

Risteard81

Mondo44 wrote: »

How are 2 10mm earth wires from 10 squared t&e going to fit in a shower pull cord with one earth connector

Personally I favour the 50A Click and Crabtree round pullcords as they are, in my opinion, superior to the other offerings out there not least because they contain dual screws for all of the live conductors within. As for the protective conductor, realistically with two of the new-style 10mm^2 IS201 T&E cables then it's going to be a bit awkward no matter what you use - but good quality materials is still a major part of the answer.

Mondo44

Risteard81 wrote: »

Personally I favour the 50A Click and Crabtree round pullcords as they are, in my opinion, superior to the other offerings out there not least because they contain dual screws for all of the live conductors within. As for the protective conductor, realistically with two of the new-style 10mm^2 IS201 T&E cables then it's going to be a bit awkward no matter what you use - but good quality materials is still a major part of the answer.

Absolutely no way of getting 2 10mm earths in the same connector

Mondo44

Risteard81 wrote: »

Personally I favour the 50A Click and Crabtree round pullcords as they are, in my opinion, superior to the other offerings out there not least because they contain dual screws for all of the live conductors within. As for the protective conductor, realistically with two of the new-style 10mm^2 IS201 T&E cables then it's going to be a bit awkward no matter what you use - but good quality materials is still a major part of the answer.

Absolutely no way of getting 2 10mm earths in the same connector

2011

Mondo44 wrote: »

How are 2 10mm earth wires from 10 squared t&e going to fit in a shower pull cord with one earth connector

My preference would be to avoid pull cord switches altogether and use a wall switch instead.

Sleeper12

Mondo44 wrote:

How are 2 10mm earth wires from 10 squared t&e going to fit in a shower pull cord with one earth connector

We use hager 50amp pull cords. They have 2 earth connectors. As 2011 says though wall switch is the way to go. Only a little extra work & a better quality job

Risteard81

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Mondo44 wrote:

How are 2 10mm earth wires from 10 squared t&e going to fit in a shower pull cord with one earth connector

We use hager 50amp pull cords. They have 2 earth connectors. As 2011 says though wall switch is the way to go. Only a little extra work & a better quality job

Although the Hager 50A pullcords are of good quality (as all Hager gear), unfortunately they do not offer dual screws for the terminations of the live conductors which makes me select products which do.