Apple Athenry data centre

Wompa1 · 29-06-2021 11:05am

dubhthach wrote: »

Well given the high density of Fibre in the vicinity and closeness to proposed offshore wind farms I imagine someone will pick up the site and build it as expected within the next 10 years.

Amazon for example are building two hyperscaler data centers in Drogheda to get around the developing 'Data Center power congestion' around the 'T-50' in Dublin

I don't doubt it. I hope our representatives have the intelligence to protect our resources. Amazon have already bought massive windfarms. It is a net positive that they do that rather than just build a DC and work off a power grid entirely but still, we should prioritize correctly.

shanec1928 · 29-06-2021 11:13am

dubhthach wrote: »

Well given the high density of Fibre in the vicinity and closeness to proposed offshore wind farms I imagine someone will pick up the site and build it as expected within the next 10 years.

Amazon for example are building two hyperscaler data centers in Drogheda to get around the developing 'Data Center power congestion' around the 'T-50' in Dublin

that map is also missing Microsoft's Azure North DCs in Newcastle

dubhthach · 30-06-2021 10:03am

shanec1928 wrote: »

that map is also missing Microsoft's Azure North DCs in Newcastle

Well the map isn't of Data centers but a general overview of the T-50 ring, in this case I couldn't find a decent resolution version so I went with ESB Telecoms dark fibre map. Microsoft aren't a customer of ESB Telecoms so of course it's missing both Microsoft in Grange Castle and Google across the road in Profile Park.

However "Telecity Kilcarberry" (now called Equinix Dub02) is an approx for both of these:

T-50 runs in ducting in the Nangor Road right in front of them:

dubhthach · 30-06-2021 10:16am

hah date stamp on above image is from November 2018, just created a newer broader one. As can be seen Microsoft have added a chunk of extra DC's during this period:

Just north of that image ye've got EdgeConnex and Interxion Dub03. (I've been in Interxion Dub01 in Park West)

dubhthach · 30-06-2021 10:31am

Wompa1 wrote: »

I don't doubt it. I hope our representatives have the intelligence to protect our resources. Amazon have already bought massive windfarms. It is a net positive that they do that rather than just build a DC and work off a power grid entirely but still, we should prioritize correctly.

One could argue that the presence of large DC's if anything makes it more attractive for foreign capital to invest in Irish power generation (be it renewable or not), mainly as with the likes of windfarms they can guarantee a ROI by selling the projected generation capacity to Hyperscalers.

GE did this when they developed and sold output of Windfarm in Kerry to Microsoft, it's probable they wouldn't have developed (or had taken slower approach) if they hadn't been able to book such a sale.

Gadgetman496 · 09-08-2021 5:14pm

The county council has approved plans by Apple to keep the possibility open for the construction of a data centre in Athenry.

The council has granted a five year extension of its planning permission for a data centre at the site in Derrydonnell where Apple once envisioned plans for an €850 million project.

marno21 · 09-08-2021 5:38pm

There needs to be a serious discussion about data centres in this country. Eirgrid spending 9 figure sums on keeping the lights on this winter meanwhile data centres are lashing up ten a penny and dispatchable electricity generation stations are being shut down or mothballed.

And that's before I start on Ministers trying to stop town bypasses being built in the name of "climate action" while this lark continues.

13-08-2021 2:52pm

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/123605/positive-disastrous-politicians-disagree-over-apple-data-centre-extension

Great to see some of the marketing nonsense being rubbished

wassie · 13-08-2021 3:29pm

Slow news week in Galway.

dubhthach · 10-10-2021 2:22pm

The IRIS cable between Iceland and Galway has had contracts awarded, cable been RFS (Ready For Service) by the end of 2022.

IRIS will be a six-fiber pair submarine cable with a total system capacity of 108 Tbps – or 18 Tbps per fiber pair. The undersea system will connect southwest of Iceland to Ballyloughane Strand in Galway, Ireland, a length of approximately 1700 km. The submarine network will link to another new system in Ireland to provide connectivity to the rest of Europe.

https://www.lightwaveonline.com/network-design/high-speed-networks/article/14200833/farice-subcom-partner-on-iris-submarine-cable-to-link-iceland-to-ireland

The WINS cable from Galway to Bilbao is still under active planning/design, so might be couple more years, obviously it will link up with major transatlantic cable from the US to Bilbao:

cnocbui · 11-10-2021 10:38am

Great, but I doubt that alters Apples thinking that they no longer want a data centre in Ireland. Apparently the one in Denmark is now up and running.

Given the ridiculous power requiremnts of the data centre thay had proposed, I think the country dodged a bullet and should breath a big sigh of relief it won't be built.

Markcheese · 11-10-2021 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003550#Comment_118003550

They only built the one in Denmark in the end as well .. out of the many that they were proposing to build in both athenry and denmark ...

the whole year inn · 11-10-2021 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003550#Comment_118003550

I think we dodged a bullet aswell, it was going to be a big strain on our grid.

The only thing I want to know is does anyone know when the plant is built how many jobs would it have created .

11-10-2021 9:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006582#Comment_118006582

That number varies greatly depending on who you ask, and what agenda they have. Some protesters were saying once built it would employ 3 chickens on a rolling shift, and one person to feed the chickens.

11-10-2021 10:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006582#Comment_118006582

The only thing I want to know is does anyone know when the plant is built how many jobs would it have created .

It depends on who you ask and how they decide to count.

In 2018 the IDA did a study and found 1,800 employed directly across all the DC's on the island. But if you add in the construction staff, and potential future hires for new DC's being built, and the potential future construction jobs, the IDA add all this up to 5,700 with 1,000 of those by 2025. This 5,700 is typically the figure you will see quoted, which as you can see, is not the true figure at all.

There are currently 53 DC's in Ireland with another 26 planned by 2025.

So, looking at 2025, there will be 79 DC's, directly employing 2,800 staff or 35.4 staff per DC. Granted there will be some with more staff, some with less, but it averages out to that.

So yeah, pretty rubbish return when you consider the impact.

These are also not mega high paying jobs either, with the highest paid position, the DC Manager only commanding 80k salary. The Techs & Operatives would be on 30-42k.

Basically the jobs are the same types and salary ranges you would get in a bog standard mid-sized factory, which is not knocking those, just the impact of DC's is mind blowing when you look at the returns to the economy.

Lastly, an even bigger impact that is not widely publicized, is the impact they have in terms of attracting future employment in other industries. Lets say Apple built their DC in Athenry, and lets say it was fully built. It would be drawing the equivalent of 7 counties worth of energy into it.

Now lets say some megacorp wants to build a whopping great factory in Oranmore and employ many thousands of staff, they will struggle to do so if they have high energy requirements too as the local grid would struggle. This is starting to be seen in Dublin right now so is a legitimate issue.

Bullet dodged? I'll say

Sources:

IDA-Ireland-Economic-Benefits-of-Data-Centre-Investment-Final-May182018.pdf

https://www.gempool.ie/insights/data-centres-in-ireland-the-ever-growing-industry

salmocab · 11-10-2021 10:29pm

Techs are not on 30-42k the electricians on shift would be on 65kish.

cnocbui · 11-10-2021 10:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006606#Comment_118006606

A similar Apple data centre in the US, to the one at Viborg in Denmark, employs 50 people. The Viborg centre is estimated to require 700 GWh of power annually.

Data centres consume 3% of the electricity generated on the planet, and not one of them will ever pay as much as 1c in EU fines for not meeting CO2 targets.

11-10-2021 11:55pm

I'm calling bullsh!t on those quoted numbers but as I said, the numbers vary wildly depending on who gets asked and what their agenda is.

the whole year inn · 12-10-2021 12:01am

When is 80k not high paying job tho?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006865#Comment_118006865

Thanks for the info and links!

12-10-2021 12:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007173#Comment_118007173

In terms of "high tech roles", which TD's love telling us these are, 80k is crap for a Manager level role

cnocbui · 12-10-2021 1:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007164#Comment_118007164

I'm calling BS on your BS:

"Denmark has been secretly negotiating about Apple for more than three years. In addition to the municipality, the negotiations also included the University of Aarhus , Energi Viborg and the “Invest in Denmark” Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The then Minister for Trade and Development, Mogens Jensen, stated that the advertisement "should be the best business news of the year for Denmark". [9] A similar Apple data center in Maiden, North Carolina created 50 full-time jobs. [10]

https://hu-wikicore-net.translate.goog/wiki/Foulum_Data_Center?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui

And the reference they quote:

Cloud centers bring high-tech flash but not many jobs to beaten-down towns

By Michael S. Rosenwald

November 24, 2011

MAIDEN, N.C. — Here in this once-thriving town of furniture makers and textile mills, where Main Street businesses have vanished, nearby fast-food joints have closed and unemployment is rampant, government officials have lined up behind a flashy digital answer to all the heartache: The cloud.

Just off Startown Road, on the edge of town, Apple recently completed a massive $1 billion data center to help power its cloud computing products.

Total new full-time jobs running the facility: 50.

Apple’s data center has been a disappointing development for many residents, who can’t comprehend how expensive facilities stretching across hundreds of acres can create so few jobs, especially after thousands of positions in the region have been lost to cheaper foreign competition. But in the newer digital economy, capital investments that a generation ago would have created thousands of new positions often equal only a handful today, with computers and software processing the heavy lifting while the key programming is often done by engineers back in Silicon Valley.

...

Apple’s data center is also supposed to create 250 indirect contracting jobs for maintenance and security. But many in this close-knit town of about 3,400 people — it essentially shuts down Friday nights for high school football — do not know anyone working at Apple.

Samantha Saunders, the longtime owner of a Main Street hardware store, where the old hardwood floors creak and a fresh-paint scent wafts through the cramped aisles, said the only contact she has had with an Apple employee is when one came in to make keys for the facility.

...

But analysts who study the economics of data centers say the overall benefits for communities such as Maiden are fleeting.

“Data centers are there to house a factory of IT systems,” said Michelle Bailey, an International Data Corp. vice president who studies data center trends and consults with municipalities about their benefits. “There is not an immediate payback — there’s no doubt about that. What you hope is that you can modernize the town, hope it can be relevant in the future and attract more companies.”

Todd Cherry, director of the Center for Economic Research and Policy Analysis at Appalachian State University, said data centers “are more of a political benefit for those communities and politicians than for the community itself. They give the region the psychological benefit of having someone who wants them — somebody wants to come there and locate there.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/cloud-centers-bring-high-tech-flash-but-not-many-jobs-to-beaten-down-towns/2011/11/08/gIQAccTQtN_story.html?noredirect=on

12-10-2021 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007173#Comment_118007173

in 2021, 80k is no longer a high paying job. Thats partly why I'm calling BS on the quoted numbers. Base rate for a DC Tech at Google(not renowned as being a high payer) is 42k a year. A DC Manager on 80? Not a chance.

I'm calling BS on your BS:

See above for one source of the BS.

As for the article you posted. 50 new full time positions and 250 contractors. In a town of 3400. Thats a decent increase of jobs is it not?

12-10-2021 10:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118011296#Comment_118011296

That increase in job numbers is decent, but at what impact though?

To give an alternate example, the Bia Innovator Campus which is getting up and running in Athenry will house 40 businesses and 360 jobs. Keep in mind this is an incubator facility designed to give new food businesses a leg up when starting out, so once they are up and running, and move out, they won't move far as its very likely all their staff and suppliers will be fairly local, and more will move into their spot in the campus.

Then you have to take into account their suppliers (farmers, butchers, specialty growers, equipment, consumables etc) and the number of jobs really start to climb.

To me, thats a far more valuable source of jobs for the local economy. Granted they are not sexy "Apple" jobs, and a lot wouldn't pay a hell of a lot beyond minimum wage, but in terms of benefits/impacts to the area, its a LOT more valuable than a data center.

Also, when you think of scalability, you could have over 1,000 employed in food related businesses arising out of this in 10-15 years whereas the data center, once built, is unlikely to add much more staff beyond what it started with.

Even in terms of the 50 jobs you mention, Athenry will get that many when Lidl & Aldi open next year between those 2 stores.

Also, the population of Athenry is 4,400, not 3,400, just sayin ;)

12-10-2021 10:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118011507#Comment_118011507

"Also the population of Athenry is 4400, not 3300". I am well aware of the population of Athenry. I was referring to the town mentioned in the article posted by Cnocbui.

The Bia Innovator campus is a great resource for the area, but you make it sound like it was an either/or situation. It was never a case of it being "you can have a data centre OR you can have the innovator centre". They don't even share the same land.

And when Lidl and/or Aldi, sure we'll get about another 50, but wouldn't it be great if we got them and 50 at the DC?

ED E · 12-10-2021 10:31pm

Now lets say some megacorp wants to build a whopping great factory in Oranmore and employ many thousands of staff, they will struggle to do so if they have high energy requirements too as the local grid would struggle. This is starting to be seen in Dublin right now so is a legitimate issue.

Haha. See this is where people are missing the point. Nobody is setting up a big factory here. Intel creating fabs is about the height of it. Super high margin items can warrant Irish wages. APIs in Pharma ok. Everything else even Mexico is too expensive.

We can take a long term industry that doesn't like to move where possible or we can keep on losing money hand over fist on farming until the CAP payments are withdrawn and that collapses.

13-10-2021 1:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118011630#Comment_118011630

Umm, I don't think I made out it was one or the other.

My point was about the benefots/impact of one versus the other on the local economy

13-10-2021 12:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012066#Comment_118012066

The potential benefits of the Bia Campus is greater than the DC, I get that, but you keep saying 'versus' when they aren't in competition with each other.