Men who inspire you to age well

Wibbs

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

I'm 28 and I've the beard of an 18 year old. This doesn't confirm I'm low in testosterone though, does it?

Unlikely P, just as a bald man with a huge hipster beard that grows like a weed doesn't mean high testosterone. Really the only way to tell is with a blood test.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So, wear yourself out and deplete the auld hormones... then just pop into your GP, and get a top up??

Doesn't really sound like a positive aging message to me. More like a licence to run your body into the ground, and then get a quick fix solution!

Not really. Nothing about "wearing yourself out" for a start. More like maintaining a younger hormonal profile. Who objects if women choose to have HRT? Pretty much nobody. I'd have a broadly similar approach to "topping up" male hormone profiles. As I said I don't mean munching roids like a greased up permatanned pro bodybuilder. That kinda plan takes far higher doses in rotating cycles than a maintenance dose matching a man in his 20's and likely to do all sorts of damage, including the risk of growing breast tissue because of aromatisation.

Never mind that for all a man might do to keep healthy he could be one of the unlucky ones whose hormone profile falls off a cliff when entering middle age, whereas his couch potato mate might be fine. It's common enough that some researchers have labeled it the "manopause". That's still controversial, but there is enough evidence that something is happening in western men. Diet, environment*, hard to say. Looking at hunter gatherer types their profiles drop at a noticeably slower rate.



*I'd personally be looking at things like the "false" oestrogens in our environment, from plastics and even some foods. Soya an obvious one. I wouldn't touch that stuff with someone else bargepole. As a man anyway, seems to have a positive effect in women.

Wanderer78

noam chomsky

Pictures Of Lilly

Wibbs wrote: »

That's still controversial, but there is enough evidence that something is happening in western men. Diet, environment*, hard to say. Looking at hunter gatherer types their profiles drop at a noticeably slower rate.

Well I higher doubt the Irish government will mention that in their so "5 year plan to tackle cancer and diabetes". God it's funny to hear what their plans are, when they can't just come out and say "to all the working class, don't drink so much coke and lucozade"

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd personally be looking at things like the "false" oestrogens in our environment, from plastics and even some foods. Soya an obvious one. I wouldn't touch that stuff with someone else bargepole. As a man anyway, seems to have a positive effect in women.

Yep, I don't eat tinned foods for example. As far as I know though, the plastic bottles (triangles 1 & 2) are relatively safe!

Pictures Of Lilly

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Shouldn't they be taking estrogen if we're taking testosterone?

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ThinkProgress

Wibbs wrote: »

Not really. Nothing about "wearing yourself out" for a start. More like maintaining a younger hormonal profile. Who objects if women choose to have HRT? Pretty much nobody. I'd have a broadly similar approach to "topping up" male hormone profiles. As I said I don't mean munching roids like a greased up permatanned pro bodybuilder. That kinda plan takes far higher doses in rotating cycles than a maintenance dose matching a man in his 20's and likely to do all sorts of damage, including the risk of growing breast tissue because of aromatisation.

But were we supposed to have younger hormone profiles, when we're not young anymore? Is that not a question worth thinking about?

Let's assume you keep yourself in great shape as you age, keep the weight off, maintain good fitness levels... etc etc... do you advocate "topping up" for these individuals too? Even if they feel perfectly fine, and don't have any major health issues?

If yes - why? If not - why?

Never mind that for all a man might do to keep healthy he could be one of the unlucky ones whose hormone profile falls off a cliff when entering middle age, whereas his couch potato mate might be fine. It's common enough that some researchers have labeled it the "manopause". That's still controversial, but there is enough evidence that something is happening in western men. Diet, environment*, hard to say. Looking at hunter gatherer types their profiles drop at a noticeably slower rate.

Of course, I would agree that there are some people that genuinely have a medical issue... regardless of how well they might live their life.

But, I don't really buy into the American idea that most older males should be supplementing with hormones... I think that's their pill popping culture. I don't think their relationship with drugs or the drug industry is a healthy one tbh... pharma or recreational.

*I'd personally be looking at things like the "false" oestrogens in our environment, from plastics and even some foods. Soya an obvious one. I wouldn't touch that stuff with someone else bargepole. As a man anyway, seems to have a positive effect in women.

It's a big conspiracy... the feminazis I tells ya!! :pac::pac:

Pictures Of Lilly

ThinkProgress wrote: »

But, I don't really buy into the American idea that most older males should be supplementing with hormones... I think that's their pill popping culture. I don't think their relationship with drugs or the drug industry is a healthy one tbh... pharma or recreational.

Absolutely. It's what resulted in Tiger Woods' recent arrest.

But if you're taking small amounts of testosterone in your 40s, just enough to get your levels up to close to where they were at when you were, say 27, then isn't that something that the body should be able to handle. Is there a side effect to this? Does it put pressure on the liver/kidneys or something? I don't know.

I look after myself anyway, so I might end up considering it far in the future.

Pictures Of Lilly

Wibbs wrote: »

Robbie Williams has come out and admitted he takes it. As he says in the article; “I went to get some HGH. It’s what all the old fellas are on out there in LA that's making them look 40 instead of 60. Though he was only 37 at the time.

I wonder did he have ED?!

Wibbs

ThinkProgress wrote: »

But were we supposed to have younger hormone profiles, when we're not young anymore? Is that not a question worth thinking about?

Certainly. More research into the long term effects of keeping a younger hormonal profile as we age is warranted. In one regard athletes who use banned drugs are a good sample group to look at. They take far higher doses of all sorts of stuff than would be taken in a maintenance type regime. Bodybuilders have higher instances of heart and liver damage for example, but generally it seems longevity isn't particularly affected. Some combinations may increase same. Of particular interest might be the mechanism of insulin in the body. In studies of extremely long lived individuals many lifestyle variables come into play. So you can have 100+ year olds who were smokers and drinkers, some thin, some fat etc, but one commonality is that they all keep the insulin profiles and responses of much younger people. The restricted calorie diet which increases longevity in every species so far looked at(inc our own) mimics such a profile. Even more recently it has been found that a drug used in type 2 diabetes shows strong anti ageing properties.

Some have concerns about testosterone and prostate health and risk of cancer. On the one hand testosterone makes prostate cancer grow when present, but on the other hand men with higher natural testosterone throughout life have lower risks. One bit of research showed a correlation between the number of orgasms per week and the risk of prostate cancer. Basically the more orgasms throughout life the lower the risk. The mechanism for this was explained along the lines of more movement of seminal fluid meant any dodgy cells were flushed more regularly, but it might be that men with higher testosterone will have higher libidos and therefore will want to have more orgasms. Plus higher libido would be more likely in men who were also more fit overall.

Let's assume you keep yourself in great shape as you age, keep the weight off, maintain good fitness levels... etc etc... do you advocate "topping up" for these individuals too? Even if they feel perfectly fine, and don't have any major health issues?

If such regimes lengthen lives, or even more make longer lives more healthy and in less need of other medical attention, then why not?

But, I don't really buy into the American idea that most older males should be supplementing with hormones... I think that's their pill popping culture. I don't think their relationship with drugs or the drug industry is a healthy one tbh... pharma or recreational.

Oh it's not. Even pick up an American origin magazine and their ad space tends to be chock full of pills for every ill(followed by a separate page outlining how said meds may cause willie droop and monsterism ). This goes triple for any science type magazine. On that alone the culture looks like one of rampant hypochondria. Though in a culture of industrialised and extremely expensive medicine I suppose it makes sense to be a bit of a hypochondriac(though the French and Spanish make Americans look like amateurs).

Still we are already a medically augmented species. I've never had an antibiotic and the only vaccination I received was for polio, but outside some cults and hippie types I'd be very much a rarity in the West. We're living longer healthier(in general) lives because of medical intervention. Hell people are making it out of childhood at much higher rates than a century ago.

The next step, which is already happening, will be at the level of not just treating illnesses, but augmenting our health and longevity at a deeper level. Immortality is essentially an engineering problem. I can easily imagine in a thousand years time(if not sooner) people routinely living for centuries. If they choose to of course, as such lifespans bring all sorts of non medical issues.

It's a big conspiracy... the feminazis I tells ya!! :pac::pac:

Wibbs

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

I wonder did he have ED?!

Quite likely and he did say his libido was on the floor. He lost interest in sex. There can be all sorts of reasons for that, but low test would be one.

TerrorFirmer

Back to the original topic, Frank Grillo looks incredible for a guy his age, though he was a bodybuilder/model in his younger days.

I mean this guy is 52 - just think, in your own mind, what the average 52 year old looks like. I'm sure he uses HGH and has had some work done but there's only so far that can take you at the same time and it's subtle.

This is from the 2016 season of Kingdom so he was probably about 50 in this scene:

Pictures Of Lilly

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I mean this guy is 52 - just think, in your own mind, what the average 52 year old looks like. I'm sure he uses HGH and has had some work done but there's only so far that can take you at the same time and it's subtle.

Definitely

Wibbs

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I mean this guy is 52 - just think, in your own mind, what the average 52 year old looks like. I'm sure he uses HGH and has had some work done but there's only so far that can take you at the same time and it's subtle.

Well... not so much. He's a handsome man outa the box, got good hair genes(though overdone with the dye) and he clearly puts real effort into his physical appearance/health, but show me any 52 year old with that level of muscle definition and bulk that hasn't had chemical help and he will be an extreme rarity. You still have to put the work in. That is not in doubt, but chemical help makes a huge difference.

Pictures Of Lilly

Wibbs wrote: »

Well... not so much. He's a handsome man outa the box, got good hair genes(though overdone with the dye) and he clearly puts real effort into his physical appearance/health, but show me any 52 year old with that level of muscle definition and bulk that hasn't had chemical help and he will be an extreme rarity. You still have to put the work in. That is not in doubt, but chemical help makes a huge difference.

Hang on, how can you say that he isn't on it, when you sort implied Billy Idol and Keanu were on it. He's probably in better shape than them! You'd have to be an expert!

Pictures Of Lilly

Pete Townshend looks like a fine old man!

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Wibbs

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

Hang on, how can you say that he isn't on it,

I didn't. I said "show me any 52 year old with that level of muscle definition and bulk that hasn't had chemical help and he will be an extreme rarity". And I do mean extreme.

Pictures Of Lilly

Wibbs wrote: »

Well... not so much. He's a handsome man outa the box, got good hair genes(though overdone with the dye) and he clearly puts real effort into his physical appearance/health, but show me any 52 year old with that level of muscle definition and bulk that hasn't had chemical help and he will be an extreme rarity. You still have to put the work in. That is not in doubt, but chemical help makes a huge difference.

I for got to read the second 'that' in your sentence.

Pictures Of Lilly

What about Julian McMahon? He's natural right?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3940578/Julian-McMahon-takes-dip-wife-Kelly-Paniagua-Gold-Coast-beach-shoots-rocks-70s-style-moustache-new-film-Flammable-Children.html

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Wibbs

Instantly reminds me of Sean Connery in the film Zardoz.

Pictures Of Lilly

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Nip/Tuck

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Pictures Of Lilly

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The TV series... is it that forgotten about?

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ThinkProgress

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

Absolutely. It's what resulted in Tiger Woods' recent arrest.

But if you're taking small amounts of testosterone in your 40s, just enough to get your levels up to close to where they were at when you were, say 27, then isn't that something that the body should be able to handle. Is there a side effect to this? Does it put pressure on the liver/kidneys or something? I don't know.

I look after myself anyway, so I might end up considering it far in the future.

I'm not deadset against chemical help... but I would need to be very sure about any potential adverse effects.

That's what my worry would be... supplementing test in small amounts, might make you feel a bit younger. But is your 50 or 60 year old heart/liver/kidneys designed for it??

Wibbs wrote: »

Certainly. More research into the long term effects of keeping a younger hormonal profile as we age is warranted. In one regard athletes who use banned drugs are a good sample group to look at. They take far higher doses of all sorts of stuff than would be taken in a maintenance type regime. Bodybuilders have higher instances of heart and liver damage for example, but generally it seems longevity isn't particularly affected. Some combinations may increase same. Of particular interest might be the mechanism of insulin in the body. In studies of extremely long lived individuals many lifestyle variables come into play. So you can have 100+ year olds who were smokers and drinkers, some thin, some fat etc, but one commonality is that they all keep the insulin profiles and responses of much younger people. The restricted calorie diet which increases longevity in every species so far looked at(inc our own) mimics such a profile. Even more recently it has been found that a drug used in type 2 diabetes shows strong anti ageing properties.

Some pro athletes take a very noticeable nose-dive in health, after they retire... but how much of that is down to their drug use, and how much is down to pushing their bodies to the limit too often? Hard to say...

I'm not convinced by the calorie restriction theories... but I do think restriction of certain macronutrients, can be beneficial.

Some have concerns about testosterone and prostate health and risk of cancer. On the one hand testosterone makes prostate cancer grow when present, but on the other hand men with higher natural testosterone throughout life have lower risks. One bit of research showed a correlation between the number of orgasms per week and the risk of prostate cancer. Basically the more orgasms throughout life the lower the risk. The mechanism for this was explained along the lines of more movement of seminal fluid meant any dodgy cells were flushed more regularly, but it might be that men with higher testosterone will have higher libidos and therefore will want to have more orgasms. Plus higher libido would be more likely in men who were also more fit overall.

I've heard that EPO can have similar effects on certain cancers... some people with anemia for example, who take EPO, have been shown to develop testicular cancer.

HGH is also known to cause enlargement of internal organs, including your heart.

If such regimes lengthen lives, or even more make longer lives more healthy and in less need of other medical attention, then why not?

It does require a certain leap of faith though... perhaps the point might be, how f**ked up is your body? I can understand someone, who has completely messed up their body, being prepared to be a guinea pig...

But if you're in good enough shape... why take the risk, in order to feel a bit better??

Oh it's not. Even pick up an American origin magazine and their ad space tends to be chock full of pills for every ill(followed by a separate page outlining how said meds may cause willie droop and monsterism ). This goes triple for any science type magazine. On that alone the culture looks like one of rampant hypochondria. Though in a culture of industrialised and extremely expensive medicine I suppose it makes sense to be a bit of a hypochondriac(though the French and Spanish make Americans look like amateurs).

Some Americans are far too trusting of big pharma... science isn't always progress!

Still we are already a medically augmented species. I've never had an antibiotic and the only vaccination I received was for polio, but outside some cults and hippie types I'd be very much a rarity in the West. We're living longer healthier(in general) lives because of medical intervention. Hell people are making it out of childhood at much higher rates than a century ago.

We certainly are... I often even wonder, what generational effects there are to widespread alcohol and caffeine consumption. If your father, and his father, and his father, all consumed alcohol and caffeine... (not even necessarily to excess) will this alter us as a species??

The next step, which is already happening, will be at the level of not just treating illnesses, but augmenting our health and longevity at a deeper level. Immortality is essentially an engineering problem. I can easily imagine in a thousand years time(if not sooner) people routinely living for centuries. If they choose to of course, as such lifespans bring all sorts of non medical issues.

We are kind of a reckless species, though... we seem to crave danger and excess. Can you imagine how crazy we might behave, if we knew someone could patch us together and keep us alive, even after traumatic injuries - injuries that would have previously meant certain death, or severely diminished capacity if still alive!! :pac:

mzungu

Pictures Of Lilly wrote: »

Nip/Tuck

And those of us of a slightly older vintage remember him as Carly's husband Ben on Home and Away.

Pictures Of Lilly

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How can you not be familiar with Nip/Tuck for someone so aware about plastic surgery? How old are you?

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