Scientology Centre headed for old Victory Centre in Firhouse

silverharp

Leo being a bit weak minded here

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/varadkar-i-dont-know-if-scientology-is-a-cult-im-loathe-to-interfere-with-religious-groups-36431015.html

Varadkar: 'I don't know if Scientology is a cult, I'm loathe to interfere with religious groups'

weldoninhio

"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion,"

recedite

Every religion makes money though. Those personnel who are higher up the food chain have to keep up a certain lifestyle. Whats the point of having a flock if you don't fleece them regularly?

Are there any statistical studies on the cashback co-efficient of the different religions? What I mean is, they all give something back, but some more than others. The RCC for example contributes some useful services to society, retirement homes for the elderly, soup kitchens, MC at weddings and funerals etc.. On the other hand they rake in far more than these services are worth. The clergy spend more time around rich old ladies than poor ones, because there's nothing like a last will and testament for a cash boost.
So they might be at say, a 0.3 cashback coefficient?
Scientology might be only 0.1, as they give less back. They have a few cold turkey programs for getting people over addictions. Not much else AFAIK.

Odhinn

recedite wrote: »

Every religion makes money though. Those personnel who are higher up the food chain have to keep up a certain lifestyle. Whats the point of having a flock if you don't fleece them regularly?

Are there any statistical studies on the cashback co-efficient of the different religions? What I mean is, they all give something back, but some more than others. The RCC for example contributes some useful services to society, retirement homes for the elderly, soup kitchens, MC at weddings and funerals etc.. On the other hand they rake in far more than these services are worth. The clergy spend more time around rich old ladies than poor ones, because there's nothing like a last will and testament for a cash boost.
So they might be at say, a 0.3 cashback coefficient?
Scientology might be only 0.1, as they give less back. They have a few cold turkey programs for getting people over addictions. Not much else AFAIK.

None of the mainstream bunch get this blatant in recent centuries.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html

Plus they come up with "corrections to the text" now, meaning you have to repeat segments. At a large cost, of course.

silverharp

money or altruism might be a measure of the benefits of a religion but i'd see this as more in terms of falling below certain standards where it can be shown that the "cult" makes inordinate demands of its members, is controlling of the individual or leads the individual to commit crime. with Scientology there is for sure a "pay for pray issue" and the other cultish issue seems to be that they tend to separate members from their friends or family.

recedite

Odhinn wrote: »

None of the mainstream bunch get this blatant in recent centuries.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html

Plus they come up with "corrections to the text" now, meaning you have to repeat segments. At a large cost, of course.

Members who have "achieved" higher levels in these courses can aspire to making some of their money back by "auditing" newbies at lower levels. So there are some of the elements of a pyramid scheme involved.

silverharp wrote: »

the other cultish issue seems to be that they tend to separate members from their friends or family.

Only if the family are not members, and even then it is more about in-family arguments over religion than any requirement by Scientology that they separate.
Is that really so different to other religions? If a family member converts to Islam, I think they are going to be a lot less likely to show up for any extended family Christmas dinners in future. And quite likely, if/when they have kids , they will not be attending the same school as the kid's cousins, even if they live in the same area.
Scientology is probably worse than most religions, but IMO any differences are quantitative rather than qualitative.

silverharp

recedite wrote: »

Only if the family are not members, and even then it is more about in-family arguments over religion than any requirement by Scientology that they separate.
Is that really so different to other religions? If a family member converts to Islam, I think they are going to be a lot less likely to show up for any extended family Christmas dinners in future. And quite likely, if/when they have kids , they will not be attending the same school as the kid's cousins, even if they live in the same area.
Scientology is probably worse than most religions, but IMO any differences are quantitative rather than qualitative.

pragmatically I'd put them on a scale. Scientology would be on the "wrong" end, possibly even religions like JW on the basis that ive heard of cases where kids are heavily discouraged if they befriend non jw's so kids can be very isolated if the grow up in a toxic household

mistersifter

One of the main differences between Scientology and Christianity (and other mainstream religions) is that in Christianity you do not get charged to discover their teachings. You can walk into a church and immediately get told about God and Jesus etc.. In Scientology they make you go through a hierarchy of courses, which are increasingly expensive. If you pay enough money you can reach a level in which they let you in on their secret i.e. that there is an extraterrestrial warrior called Xenu who exploded a load of Thetans in volcanoes on Earth and now they're all stuck to your body and you have to get them off (by paying cash to Scientology). The Catholic Church are more up front from the beginning about their own particular brand of bullsh*t.

recedite

mistersifter wrote: »

in Christianity you do not get charged to discover their teachings.

That is very true. But does that make Scientology more evil, or less of a religion?
They play a lot on people's ego. Initial contact is usually via a personality test, which result is invariably complimentary, but people are told they still have some issues that need to be addressed. Its a kind of self improvement thing. Celebrities are sought after by Scientology and get their own special status. This in turn attracts wannabees and minor celebs. Maybe its a religion for the modern world, in which wealth and celebrity are seen as the main things to aspire to?

Not every religion aims for the mass market, some offer an element of exclusivity in their offering instead. Judaism would be another example of that (I'm not saying you pay to be a jew, but its pretty much by invitation only).

Christianity goes out to rake in as many converts as possible, and then tells them they are all worthless sinners. Some of them seem to enjoy being told that. Different strategies work on different folks.

gandalf

And their in the press again. Looks like their recent converts are revolting

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/do-not-go-near-themit-will-destroy-you-ex-scientology-worker-issues-warning-over-church-36483852.html

Ex-worker says involvement with the church left him 'with nothing', writes Conor Feehan
A man who became involved with the Scientology movement in Dublin has issued a warning to those thinking of joining to stay away, claiming: "You end up with nothing."
Zeni Bundo, who was a member of the new Scientology European Headquarters in Firhouse, warned: "Do not go near them. You will destroy your family and yourself."

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smacl

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The type that would get also involved with Scientology apparently. They do seem to suck in a certain type of person. You know, naive, vulnerable, having difficulty fitting in with the mainstream, looking for alternatives, that kind of thing. I reckon Scientology play a numbers game knowing that in any large population there will always be a steady supply of people who find themselves in these circumstances and are looking for any port in a storm. A siren's song no doubt sounds sweet at first

gandalf

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Vulnerable people obviously or people desperate for a cure etc. They appear to be a predatory cult preying on the vulnerable and gullible. We've had enough issues with one parasitic religious organisation now it appears we are allowing another cult to get embedded in our society.

Walter Bishop

In again today for operating a 'rehab' centre: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/scientology-rehab-centre-has-no-basis-in-science-says-department-1.3358153

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Danjamin1

With the amount of publicity around this organisation hopefully most people will be too smart to get roped in, I've yet to see a positive story on them that isn't published by them.

The building does actually look quite impressive, even my wife was saying she could see how people would be enticed to go in & have a look around the centre & she's more than aware of all of the negative press surrounding this "religion".

Hotblack Desiato

They tried to open up a rehab, and I said, No, No, No :pac:

Danjamin1 wrote: »

With the amount of publicity around this organisation hopefully most people will be too smart to get roped in

52% voted for Brexit
49% voted for Trump
27% would vote FF as of last October

and you still think people are smart?

Odhinn

Danjamin1 wrote: »

With the amount of publicity around this organisation hopefully most people will be too smart to get roped in, I've yet to see a positive story on them that isn't published by them.

The building does actually look quite impressive, even my wife was saying she could see how people would be enticed to go in & have a look around the centre & she's more than aware of all of the negative press surrounding this "religion".

Your faith in humanity is heartening, though I don't believe a word of it.

Danjamin1

Odhinn wrote: »

Your faith in humanity is heartening, though I don't believe a word of it.

Ah I have no faith, there'll always be someone stupid/troubled enough to get sucked in to it. I'd just hope the vast majority of people will see right through them, I believe earlier in the thread some people mentioned how good their Halloween & Christmas fairs looked and that they'd avail of the entertainment.

Odhinn

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Ah I have no faith, there'll always be someone stupid/troubled enough to get sucked in to it. I'd just hope the vast majority of people will see right through them, I believe earlier in the thread some people mentioned how good their Halloween & Christmas fairs looked and that they'd avail of the entertainment.

O its all very "American" - flashy and slick production.

recedite

For a mere €1500, smackheads will be able to purify themselves at Scientology's new Co. Meath resort.
Locals, however, are less than enthusiastic about the prospect.

I'd say its an ideal location. Near enough to South Dublin for hipster mammy and daddy to visit, but far enough away so that nosey neighbours are kept in the dark.

weldoninhio

recedite wrote: »

For a mere €1500, smackheads will be able to purify themselves at Scientology's new Co. Meath resort.
Locals, however, are less than enthusiastic about the prospect.

I'd say its an ideal location. Near enough to South Dublin for hipster mammy and daddy to visit, but far enough away so that nosey neighbours are kept in the dark.

By purify you mean take a load of niacin and sit in a sauna for 6/8 hours a day.

recedite

weldoninhio wrote: »

By purify you mean take a load of niacin and sit in a sauna for 6/8 hours a day.

Also you'd be relieved and purified of all that excess cash.
As Jesus said, ‘Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God"

Hotblack Desiato

It's kill or cure.

Tabnabs

the bad news just keeps coming

Gardai are investigating an alleged assault on a minor at the Scientology centre on the Firhouse Road.

It has been alleged that the minor was assaulted last Saturday, January 13, with gardai at Rathfarnham receiving reports of the alleged assault on Tuesday of this week.

In a statement to Echo.ie today, a Garda spokesperson said: “On 16/1/18 Gardaí in Rathfarnham received reports of an alleged assault on a minor on the Firhouse Road on 13/1/18 at approximately 6.30pm.

“Enquiries are ongoing.”

Echo.ie has contacted the Church of Scientology for comment.

http://www.echo.ie/news/article/gardai-investigating-alleged-assault-on-minor-at-scientology-centre

Tow

As their are no more details, my first though is they probably caught him 'up to no good' and tried to apprehend him. They are too slick an operation to go around assaulting people. It took 4 days to be reported, enough time to talk to mates. Compo...

recedite

The Empire strikes back...

A garda spokesperson confirmed that officers are investigating reports of an assault on a minor by a security guard on the Firhouse Road at around 6:30pm last Saturday night.
But in a statement released to Newstalk.com, the Church of Scientology disputes what happened.
It claims "a group of unruly teenagers" had to be escorted off the property on three separate occasions due "abusive and disruptive behavior".
It adds that they shouted offensive language and refused to leave when asked to do so.It says an incident between one of the teenagers and a security guard was reported to the garda

seamus

They will find themselves in trouble with their "black ops" shenanigans. Hopefully continuously.

In the US an organisation will get away with operating their business as a tiny town, and the security guards as de facto police officers with the power to arrest trespassers and shoot burglars. Scientology love running their locations as military compounds.

But they won't get away with the same here.

RichieO

I think they are only here for the tax breaks and the beer, anyone gullible enough to give them cash is a bonus...

It is said, the only difference between a religion and a cult is the size of the congregation, this is one of the larger cults...

Hotblack Desiato

You can get beer, and tax exemptions for religion, pretty much anywhere. Until recent years, Irish beer was uniformly shyte :eek:

I read recently that CoS has not been granted charitable status in this country, that may well be true but are churches actually required to register for charitable status and publish accounts etc. in the way charities do? I don't think they are.