Scientology Centre headed for old Victory Centre in Firhouse

seamus

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At the most basic level, you don't need any grounds to make a complaint to Gardai. You can complain that you don't like your neighbour's shoes if you want.

It's up to the Garda then to decide if there is an investigation required, charges to be filed, etc.

Off the top of my head, if someone is purporting to offer medical services despite not being licensed to do so, that's one offence.

Fraud is another.

There are probably a few other more obscure things you could look at.

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Hotblack Desiato

Yup really annoys me when I see homeopathy bollocks in a pharmacy.

robindch

A reporter for the Irish Times looks into Scientology's low-cost Santas out in Firhouse. Plus gets approached by Scientology Security.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/scientology-community-activity-sparks-concern-in-firhouse-1.3322442

Irish Times wrote:

Residents and politicians in Firhouse have expressed concern about community outreach efforts by the Church of Scientology in the south Dublin suburb. Last week the controversial organisation, which has been officially labelled a cult in several countries, opened a “Winter Wonderland” event at its new 1,200-seat facility in Firhouse. The event lasts for a month and features fairground rides, Santa Claus and several other children’s activities.

The event, which is free to enter, is the latest in a series of community events hosted by the facility since its opening in October. Other events include a Halloween festival, a variety concert and an “Alice in Wonderland tea party”. “Nothing’s for free. What is it they’re trying to do?” asked Firhouse resident and local area representative for the Social Democrats Carly Bailey. She was worried the church was targeting economically deprived communities with a view to recruitment. Ms Bailey, a mother of two, noted that bringing children to see Santa Claus can cost €20 or more in many places but that it was free at the Scientology centre. “It’s obviously aimed at people who don’t have a huge amount of money who would be absolutely thrilled to bring their kids to something that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg.”

Dublin South-West TD SeCrowe said he was worried Scientology was attempting to become part of the fabric of the community in Tallaght before starting to actively recruit people. “They’ve made it known local groups can avail of its facilities. And there is a shortage of community facilities in the area. There’s always groups looking for a meeting room or something like that. So that’s their way in,” the Sinn F TD said. “But I’ve huge concerns in relation to the group itself. It is a cult. I wouldn’t be encouraging anybody to be using the facilities,” he added.

“No, we won’t be going. From what I’ve seen on television and online I wouldn’t be bringing my kids near the place,” said Louise Kenny, a mother of two, while she shopped in the Firhouse Shopping Centre.

When The Irish Times visited the facility on Sunday a security guard followed this reporter before ordering deletion of a photograph. Church management was alerted after The Irish Times refused. The church’s director of external affairs, Diana Stahl, said the facility was open to all but that members of the press must make an appointment. She said about 800 people had visited the centre since the Winter Wonderland opened last Friday. When The Irish Times visited at 2.30pm on Sunday there were less than 20 visitors present.

Ms Stahl said members of the community were welcome to come in and discuss their concerns with a member of staff, except for protesters “who only want to cause trouble”. Asked how many people have joined the church since the Firhouse facility opened, another Scientology official, who identified herself as Janet, said they do not keep track of those numbers. In a separate emailed statement, Ms Stahl said Scientology is a “non conversionalist” organisation. “You can meet many people who we have known and worked with for years who will confirm to you that we have never tried to ‘recruit’ them.” She said “various local councillors and community representatives, local organisations, local media, numerous sports groups, artists and young families” have visited the facility since it opened.

Many of Scientology’s Firhouse events have been accompanied by protests outside the facility by a small but vocal group of anti-Scientology activists. A protest against the “Winter Wonderland” festival took place last Friday. On Sunday a play titled “Squeeze my Cans” was staged in another community centre in Firhouse which mocked the church. It stars US actress and anti-Scientology activist Cathy Schenkelberg, who was a member of the church for 14 years before she left. The autobiographical plot features a woman auditioning to be the girlfriend of famous Scientologist and actor Tom Cruise.

seamus

When The Irish Times visited the facility on Sunday a security guard followed this reporter before ordering deletion of a photograph. Church management was alerted after The Irish Times refused. The church’s director of external affairs, Diana Stahl, said the facility was open to all but that members of the press must make an appointment. She said about 800 people had visited the centre since the Winter Wonderland opened last Friday. When The Irish Times visited at 2.30pm on Sunday there were less than 20 visitors present.

These kinds of nonsense demands and illegal overreaching are typical of Scientology.

Louis Theroux's recent documentary also showed the same kind of behaviour - they illegally closed a public road and then approached the documentary team, aggressively demanding they vacate the area and stop filming. All the time denying that it was a public road and claiming authority that they didn't have.

It's preying on the human nature to tend to obey someone who acts with apparent confidence and authority, and it's how they peddle their brainwashing.

Hopefully Irish journalists know enough about their rights to push back. Conor Gallagher thankfully seems to know, but how many journalists would sheepishly delete the photo and leave, incorrectly believing that security are entitled to demand it?

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recedite

Some good quotes in there..

She was worried the church was targeting economically deprived communities with a view to recruitment

They should try opening a free school and get the state to fund it. Best scam ever.

Santa Claus can cost €20 or more in many places but that it was free at the Scientology centre. “It’s obviously aimed at people who don’t have a huge amount of money who would be absolutely thrilled to bring their kids to something that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg.

Ah, but what's the cost of losing your soul? Surely more than an arm or a leg

robindch

Conor Gallagher looks deeper into goings-on in Firhouse and attempts to infiltrate into schools around the country:

Irish Times wrote:

An older man says he doesn’t know much Scientology but has “no real problem” with their tactics. “They can’t be much worse than the Catholic Church, and we put up with them for long enough.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/how-scientology-is-trying-to-insert-itself-into-irish-schools-1.3327646

expectationlost

Scientologists meet with Fine Gael TD Colm Brophy in Leinster House http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/scientologists-meet-fine-gael-td-11696758 why are FG TDs the only ones willing to meet with them, money attracts?

gandalf

Tbh up until recently I would had a benign attitude towards them. I thought that if an adult wanted to get involved with them it was their decision. However since that centre has opened and the deliberate targeting of children my mind has changed totally and I see them for the danger they are. It's one thing to sucker in an adult to their scam pyramid scheme "religion" it's quite another to deliberately target children.

Apart from the attempt to sell a fake medical cure to that woman's son, they are running a film evening right after school on a Friday night attempting to attract in local teenagers, we have that monstrosity Winter Wonderland and now a revelation that they are sending out fake education packs to schools.

This cult needs to be stopped in its tracks, we are trying extract one from our education system already we don't need to replace it with an even wackier one.

I'm from the area and have a child attending school in a local school and to say all the parents are concerned is an understatement in the extreme. Most parents appear to be staying away from their Christmas fair, anytime I've driven past it appears dead. You'd really be a ****e parent if you did bring your kid there with their reputation.

Btw the women that put the complaint into the Gardai has been threatened as has her kids by one of "staff" from the centre.

They are a Pyramid Scheme offering false hope to vulnerable people and they have no place in our society.

Alkers

gandalf wrote:

Tbh up until recently I would had a benign attitude towards them.

Have you met any of the actual members? How do they seem? Their belief system and outlook seems so flawe, I'm genuinely disappointed that they're legally allowed practice here. I can't believe TDs are willing to meet them.

robindch

gandalf wrote: »

They are a Pyramid Scheme offering false hope to vulnerable people and they have no place in our society.

In that, they're no different from most other religions.

gandalf

Simona1986 wrote: »

Have you met any of the actual members? How do they seem? Their belief system and outlook seems so flawe, I'm genuinely disappointed that they're legally allowed practice here. I can't believe TDs are willing to meet them.

I know a couple to see. The guy at the centre of the fake medical treatment sale is actually a parent in our school. He was recorded saying he was really excited there was a special needs school in Firhouse, we believe he was referring to our school!

Mongfinder General

gandalf wrote: »

Tbh up until recently I would had a benign attitude towards them. I thought that if an adult wanted to get involved with them it was their decision. However since that centre has opened and the deliberate targeting of children my mind has changed totally and I see them for the danger they are. It's one thing to sucker in an adult to their scam pyramid scheme "religion" it's quite another to deliberately target children.

Apart from the attempt to sell a fake medical cure to that woman's son, they are running a film evening right after school on a Friday night attempting to attract in local teenagers, we have that monstrosity Winter Wonderland and now a revelation that they are sending out fake education packs to schools.

This cult needs to be stopped in its tracks, we are trying extract one from our education system already we don't need to replace it with an even wackier one.

I'm from the area and have a child attending school in a local school and to say all the parents are concerned is an understatement in the extreme. Most parents appear to be staying away from their Christmas fair, anytime I've driven past it appears dead. You'd really be a ****e parent if you did bring your kid there with their reputation.

Btw the women that put the complaint into the Gardai has been threatened as has her kids by one of "staff" from the centre.

They are a Pyramid Scheme offering false hope to vulnerable people and they have no place in our society.

How did they know the identity of the complainant?

recedite

gandalf wrote: »

they are sending out fake education packs to schools.

What kind of info is in the packs?

gandalf

Mongfinder General wrote: »

How did they know the identity of the complainant?

She wasn't exactly discreet. She is a autism activist actively campaigning against quack treatments plus her details were in The Times article.

gandalf

recedite wrote: »

What kind of info is in the packs?

They were described in the Independent article.

There's another article today. Whoever is doing the cults PR is having a tough weekend

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/youre-likely-depressed-you-should-sign-up-here-now-dublins-scientology-centre-tells-undercover-reporter-psychiatry-doesnt-work-36401913.html

An undercover reporter was urged to hand over cash on the spot to take up a Scientology course and was told psychiatrists or counselling do not work to combat mental health issues such as depression.

"You're likely depressed, irresponsible and unstable as a person" - This was the analysis given by a staff member in the Church of Scientology in Dublin after an Independent.ie reporter took a 'personality test' this week.

Mongfinder General

gandalf wrote: »

She wasn't exactly discreet. She is a autism activist actively campaigning against quack treatments plus her details were in The Times article.

She needs to be careful. These pricks are dangerous.

recedite

gandalf wrote: »

They were described in the Independent article.

There's another article today. Whoever is doing the cults PR is having a tough weekend

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/youre-likely-depressed-you-should-sign-up-here-now-dublins-scientology-centre-tells-undercover-reporter-psychiatry-doesnt-work-36401913.html

Do you mean the autism cure? I don't think they were sending that around to local schools.

One comment in that link, the woman is interviewed in the video..

"It's kind of scary now, why would you put a Winter Wonderland there. I don't like the idea that you put something fun into something that is meant to be a cult,"

See, our religion is good, and fun. Their cult is bad, and should be sombre.
I get scared when these boundaries seem blurred.

The Nal

Mongfinder General wrote: »

She needs to be careful. These pricks are dangerous.

So are the Catholic priests who walk into your 4 year old childs classroom and starts talking about God in your absence despite the fact you don't want your children exposed to religion yet.

All for the TDs meeting with the Scientology lot. Why not? Whats wrong with talking?

gandalf

The Nal wrote: »

So are the Catholic priests who walk into your 4 year old childs classroom and starts talking about God in your absence despite the fact you don't want your children exposed to religion yet.

All for the TDs meeting with the Scientology lot. Why not? Whats wrong with talking?

I don't recall stories about priests threatening to stick knives in people or their kids? This cult shouldn't get any leeway at all.

Odhinn

The Nal wrote: »

So are the Catholic priests who walk into your 4 year old childs classroom and starts talking about God in your absence despite the fact you don't want your children exposed to religion yet.

All for the TDs meeting with the Scientology lot. Why not? Whats wrong with talking?

Because they're an even more cynical shower of chancers than the god botherers?

recedite

A cult is a religiously themed scam, founded by a leader mainly for his own benefit, which draws in suckers who are oblivious to its real purpose.
Whereas in a religion, that guy is dead.

AFAIK L. Ron Hubbard is still dead, unless he has risen again without me noticing. So, that makes Scientology a religion.

smacl

recedite wrote: »

A cult is a religiously themed scam, founded by a leader mainly for his own benefit, which draws in suckers who are oblivious to its real purpose.
Whereas in a religion, that guy is dead.

AFAIK L. Ron Hubbard is still dead, unless he has risen again without me noticing. So, that makes Scientology a religion.

David Miscavige on the other hand is still alive and well and keeping the cult scam religion ticking over. Seems to be doing quite nicely on it too. A cult doesn't stop being a cult when its founder dies.

gandalf

I have to laugh at some suggesting the cult is a religion. The Germans have the right idea about them, they have them all under observation by domestic intelligence agencies and see the cult as a threat to their democracy.

Odhinn

gandalf wrote: »

I have to laugh at some suggesting the cult is a religion. The Germans have the right idea about them, they have them all under observation by domestic intelligence agencies and see the cult as a threat to their democracy.

There's "benefit of the doubt" and there's being thick. I think letting it pass as "religion" given whats come out in the last few years would be madness. While banning it would be OTT and counter-productive, any politician meeting with it in an official capacity is a bit much.

recedite

Odhinn wrote: »

letting it pass as "religion" given whats come out in the last few years would be madness.

There's an interesting colour coded table on wiki showing the mad and the unmad countries.

I had to laugh at this in the UK section;

The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that Scientology is "an officially recognised religion in the Royal Navy". The UK Prison Service does not recognize Scientology as a religion, but prisoners who are registered as Scientologists may practice their religion and are given access to a representative of the Church of Scientology if they wish to receive its ministry

Given that the L Ron and the Sea Org (the elite of the Scientology community) like(d) to dress up as naval officers, the navy has a special place in Scientology.

And given that criminals in prison are notorious for turning to religion if it gives them early release, or some extra privilege while they are inside.

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The Nal

Yup. Theyve been asking people for cash since the 1950s.

Hotblack Desiato

smacl wrote: »

David Miscavige on the other hand is still alive and well and keeping the cult scam religion ticking over. Seems to be doing quite nicely on it too. A cult doesn't stop being a cult when its founder dies.

When he was over here someone should've asked him how was the mrs.