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Offaly Gaa

  • 01-07-2017 9:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭ deadybai


    What exactly happened to Offaly? I can't believe that possibly the best dual county have fallen so hard and it's getting worse every year. You'd think at this stage they would have progressed somewhat.

    What happened? Is there just no interest anymore ?

    That was an almighty hammering today and Waterford are a defensive team


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭ Mulbert


    It was Derek McGraths fault, he played four sweepers to their two.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭ bennyineire


    It's cause they don't play hurling in Birr any more, at least that's what they'd tell ya down the south of the county anyways.

    Truth is we are a small county to start off with but then you add in the North v South divide (North predominantly football and the South almost exclusively predominantly hurling) our numbers get smaller for each code.

    Serous lack of will power by the county board over the last 20 years to address this, it's come to a head now.

    Take Kilcomac/Killoughy as a club for instance, they have been dominating Offaly hurling for the last 6 years but none of their players will play for Offaly for the last 2 years.

    They won the intermediate football championships a few years back (all the hurlers) and then didn't bother enter a team in the senior championship and indeed don't have a football team now.

    So we now have situation where some of our best players WILL not play for our county and half of the population despise football. So we are funcked.

    At least we have the distant memories of winning All Irelands in both codes but we are a million miles from winner another again.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,201 Doltanian


    Massive emigration of the youth out of the county and it is a real economic basket case. The county that stopped Kerry's five in a row will probably never rise again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭ windy shepard henderson


    always poit back to this interview from 3 or 4 years ago , padraig boland was the man at the helm of offaly gaa , an out and out football man and gave little time to hurling , the only way forward for offaly is to find some way for both codes to pull together




    whats happining in offaly now happened 30 odd years ago in clare where people representing both codes didnt pull , players didnt want to commit to the county , hammerings on a regular basis was the end result for both hurlers and footballers

    nowadays everyone is singing from the same page hence the improvement in the counties fortunes , i can only imagine this is what it was like in offaly in the early 80s


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 mickmackey1


    It's worth pointing out that for the first 90 years of the GAA, Offaly achieved absolutely zero in hurling. So what happened from 1980-2000 was little short of miraculous.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭ Dirty Dingus McGee


    Up to 1960 we achieved nothing in football.From 1960 to 1982 3 all irelands and 8 Leinsters.

    Outside of that period we won the Leinster in 1997 and NFL in 1998 and that's it.

    In hurling before 1980 we won nothing from 1980 to 2000 we won 4 All Irelands 10 Leinsters and 7 all ireland final appearances.

    Basically in each code we had 2 golden ages of around 20 years and outside that we've been fairly poor. We've just reverted to the norm in recent years.

    Personally I can see the football team rising again and being competitive like we were in the period from 1997 to 2006 as that is the way football is an it's more equitable, I think the hurling at the top level may be gone for a long long time perhaps for good and we'll be a Christy Ring county in the future.I don't mind if neither team never wins anything again being competitive is enjoyable.

    I haven't been to any matches in the last 2 or 3 years as the football we play is complete scutter and isn't worth watching hopefully we actually try and play some decent football in the future as that's the only way to actually improve a team.The great thing about the football team from 97 to 06 is a that although outside of the first year of that period we always fell short we were always competitive and played enjoyable football we get back to that level and I'd be happy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ Conor74


    As a Kerryman, maybe I shouldn't be too generous about Offaly. But my age means I grew up thinking Offaly were the best football team outside Kerry, knowing that Kerry players were great, but in Matt Connor Offaly had the greatest (and many Kerry players of that era said he was). And assumed they were a hurling powerhouse because they pretty much played the best hurling around for so many years.

    I guess I just didn't realise that it was just golden generation stuff. To fall so far in one code is unfortunate, but in both it's terrible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ Offaly Exile


    We certainly punched above our weight in that golden era period. For a county with a population of approx 60,000 it was an incredible achievement to contest the hurling and the football final in 1981. We also have won all stars in all 15 positions in hurling and football.

    Up to 1986 we had never won a Leinster minor hurling title and then in a four year period between 86 and 89 we won 3 minor all irelands. In addition we contested 3 under 21 all ireland finals and lost all 3 including a classic against Tipp in 1987 and a replay to Waterford in 1992. Birr Community School won an all ireland colleges and Banagher VS were very competitive in the vocational schools system.

    But we became too comfortable dining at the top table and fell asleep at the wheel (apologies for the mixed metaphors !). The pipeline dried up. We won a Leinster minor and under 21 hurling in 2000 but nothing since. We are losing at minor and under 21 hurling to Laois, Westmeath and Carlow as we failed to embrace the idea of development squads.

    We have not been helped by poor county board officials. Big money (circa €6 million) went in to O'Connor Park which is a fine stadium but it came at a big price. Maybe the Bord na Mona deal will result in some money coming back to the clubs. We still have dreamers in the county who think that if we played our hurling games in Birr we would be better off:mad:

    Anyway I have my memories of 1982, 1994 and especially Thurles in 1998:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ Conor74


    But we became too comfortable dining at the top table and fell asleep at the wheel (apologies for the mixed metaphors !). The pipeline dried up.

    It seems like ye went back to the well too often, and the wheels came off...


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭ windy shepard henderson



    Anyway I have my memories of 1982, 1994 and especially Thurles in 1998:D

    i sometimes think of thurles 98 also , and no matter how big a hiding offaly get , it still dosent take away the pain:mad:

    but seriously , what happened the whelahans and dooleys , what dose michael diuginan do for underage up there , in both football and hurling in clare we have members of the 92 footballers , and mid 90s hurlers involved with our development squads , its why we are operating at a competitive level in both codes

    if the people i mentioned worked kids up from a young age in development squads hurling would not be long coming back in the county i believe

    was at a game last year in tullamore between offaly and clare in division 3 in the league , you could sense a totally different atmosphere around the place then if it was a hurling game , you can sense from the people up there that day that they will bounce back at some stage but everything that surounds hurling seems hopeless at the moment

    i understand too that back in the 80s there was large employment in places like edenderry, ferbane shannonbridge power stations and at the board na mona plants around the midlands , that was huge to the success and development back then that guys could work and train locally all that seems to be gone now too


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ Offaly Exile


    Conor74 wrote: »
    It seems like ye went back to the well too often, and the wheels came off...

    It's all water under the bridge now and then we ended up the creek without a paddle :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ Offaly Exile


    i sometimes think of thurles 98 also , and no matter how big a hiding offaly get , it still dosent take away the pain:mad:

    but seriously , what happened the whelahans and dooleys , what dose michael diuginan do for underage up there , in both football and hurling in clare we have members of the 92 footballers , and mid 90s hurlers involved with our development squads , its why we are operating at a competitive level in both codes

    if the people i mentioned worked kids up from a young age in development squads hurling would not be long coming back in the county i believe

    was at a game last year in tullamore between offaly and clare in division 3 in the league , you could sense a totally different atmosphere around the place then if it was a hurling game , you can sense from the people up there that day that they will bounce back at some stage but everything that surounds hurling seems hopeless at the moment

    i understand too that back in the 80s there was large employment in places like edenderry, ferbane shannonbridge power stations and at the board na mona plants around the midlands , that was huge to the success and development back then that guys could work and train locally all that seems to be gone now too

    Brian Whelahan applied to manage the minors a few years ago and ended up getting the senior job ( I kid you not !). I felt sorry for Brian. He was out of his depth and left after we lost to Laois 2 years ago (first loss to Laois since 1972).

    Joe Dooley managed us for a few years and we were reasonably competitive. Succeeded by a certain O.Baker !

    Johnny Dooley is a selector this year with Kevin Ryan. I'd say he is ashamed of Ryan's tactics, playing two sweepers and saying during the week that he just hoped we could keep the score down yesterday against Waterford. The county board said that when Ryan was appointed that Paul Flynn would join him as coach. Flynn never showed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ Conor74


    It's all water under the bridge now and then we ended up the creek without a paddle :D

    Ye are entitled to be sick as parrots...

    Heard a Newstalk review of the Offaly hurling side when the whole country wanted to watch various Dooleys or Pilkingtons, a Whelahan here, a Rigney there and so on. And it reminded me of that wonderful era of talent that played well...and partied long and hard. They succeeded on ability, not systems or gamesmanship, no big drama about an extra man back etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭ snowflaker


    Conor74 wrote: »
    Ye are entitled to be sick as parrots...

    Heard a Newstalk review of the Offaly hurling side when the whole country wanted to watch various Dooleys or Pilkingtons, a Whelahan here, a Rigney there and so on. And it reminded me of that wonderful era of talent that played well...and partied long and hard. They succeeded on ability, not systems or gamesmanship, no big drama about an extra man back etc.

    I don't think that kind of team can succeed in the modern quasi-professional game


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭ windy shepard henderson


    Brian Whelahan applied to manage the minors a few years ago and ended up getting the senior job ( I kid you not !). I felt sorry for Brian. He was out of his depth and left after we lost to Laois 2 years ago (first loss to Laois since 1972).

    Joe Dooley managed us for a few years and we were reasonably competitive. Succeeded by a certain O.Baker !

    Johnny Dooley is a selector this year with Kevin Ryan. I'd say he is ashamed of Ryan's tactics, playing two sweepers and saying during the week that he just hoped we could keep the score down yesterday against Waterford. The county board said that when Ryan was appointed that Paul Flynn would join him as coach. Flynn never showed.

    to be fair they were some bit competitive when dooley and baker were involved , but they were a long way off , i would prefer to see the likes of them men involved with development rather then managing senior , they cant get blood from a stone to be fair ,

    i remember the craic with whelahan that time which he hated the way the board treated the situation , seems like a hopeless situation really , and a scary one for any other county around the country of what can go wrong will go wrong if its let


  • Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭✭ Offaly Exile


    snowflaker wrote: »
    I don't think that kind of team can succeed in the modern quasi-professional game

    I agree, the Offaly hurling teams of the 80s and particularly the 90s were very much of that era. They had the balance right in that you could winter well, enjoy your pints and then in the late spring train hard and be ready for the championship.

    Their reputation as heavy drinkers was exaggerated of course and lads like Johnny Pilkington loved to play up to it in the press. But they did train when they had to. Even back then you couldn't win All Irelands if you were on the beer full time. Eamon Creegan nearly jacked it in a few times I believe. I couldn't see a situation happening today like in 98 when Michael Bond came in trained them for 6 weeks and they won an All Ireland.

    For anyone interested in hurling in the 1990s I would highly recommend Denis Walshe's book "Hurling - The Revolution Years" and from an Offaly perspective Michael Duignan's book "Life, Death and Hurling"


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,003 ✭✭✭ theoneeyedman


    I agree, the Offaly hurling teams of the 80s and particularly the 90s were very much of that era. They had the balance right in that you could winter well, enjoy your pints and then in the late spring train hard and be ready for the championship.

    Their reputation as heavy drinkers was exaggerated of course and lads like Johnny Pilkington loved to play up to it in the press. But they did train when they had to. Even back then you couldn't win All Irelands if you were on the beer full time. Eamon Creegan nearly jacked it in a few times I believe. I couldn't see a situation happening today like in 98 when Michael Bond came in trained them for 6 weeks and they won an All Ireland.

    For anyone interested in hurling in the 1990s I would highly recommend Denis Walshe's book "Hurling - The Revolution Years" and from an Offaly perspective Michael Duignan's book "Life, Death and Hurling"

    Like some other posters, I grew up in an era where offaly were at or near the top in both codes.
    Notwithstanding lack of development etc. there are two points I'd like to add:
    'Professionalism', including structured S&C, exploded around 2000,and was driven mainly by northern football teams, who bulked up and had very structured defensive systems. Prior to this, teams relying on talent, skill,( and steel too) were able to be competitive, even successful. Many teams were slow to embrace this 'progress', and were quickly left behind.
    The golden era of the 70's and 80's coincided with the golden era of employment in Bord na Mona and the ESB. Healthy population, jobs for anyone who wanted to stay around and play ball... all of which is now long gone really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ Conor74


    Like some other posters, I grew up in an era where offaly were at or near the top in both codes.
    Notwithstanding lack of development etc. there are two points I'd like to add:
    'Professionalism', including structured S&C, exploded around 2000,and was driven mainly by northern football teams, who bulked up and had very structured defensive systems. Prior to this, teams relying on talent, skill,( and steel too) were able to be competitive, even successful. Many teams were slow to embrace this 'progress', and were quickly left behind.
    The golden era of the 70's and 80's coincided with the golden era of employment in Bord na Mona and the ESB. Healthy population, jobs for anyone who wanted to stay around and play ball... all of which is now long gone really.

    Some of this is true...but depressingly so. Maybe they were the last of the great teams that could rely largely on ability to get by.


  • Registered Users Posts: 570 Stroke Politics


    Have a real gra for The Faithful, especially to team of the '90s. They just had skill and stamina, and an FU attitude to all bwgrudgers.

    John Troy was one of the most natural, wristy hurlers I have ever seen play, the first touch, the flick, the ground hurling and the eyes for a score.

    The new facility at Kilcormac looks impressive, hopefully the county will adopt the development squad model and bring lads through. The hurling genes are there.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭ windy shepard henderson


    Have a real gra for The Faithful, especially to team of the '90s. They just had skill and stamina, and an FU attitude to all bwgrudgers.

    John Troy was one of the most natural, wristy hurlers I have ever seen play, the first touch, the flick, the ground hurling and the eyes for a score.

    The new facility at Kilcormac looks impressive, hopefully the county will adopt the development squad model and bring lads through. The hurling genes are there.....

    agree everything about offaly was colorful especially in the 90s , always liked the way they laughed at us after the jimmy cooney incident , no badness just this mischievous humor of we might have got away with that one :pac: , one of the great gaa stories along with the limerick comeback fantastic memories its why we would love to see ye return


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭ Cake Man


    Can anyone shed some light as to why players from Kilcormac/Kiloughey won't tog out for the county? Would the inclusion of these players significantly improve Offaly? (I doubt it would bring them to the level of a 1A league team but maybe a solid 1b side?)
    Was listening to the game the weekend and WLR (Waterford radio) were talking with Duignan before the game and at HT and made reference to a few players around the county who wouldn't represent them despite being decent hurlers. He genuinely sounded fairly dismayed and didn't think things looked anyway good for Offaly in future.


    When I was at home a few years ago, I'd always go along to the Tony Forristal (basically the all Ireland U14 championships played in Waterford each August). It's the first taste young lads get of representing their county with plenty going on to become household names at senior years later. The usual counties always had a few standout players that you just knew would go on to better things (good touch, good striking of the ball and generally well able to execute the basics). The last few years I had a look, Offaly teams were terrible and took hammerings in nearly every game they played. Small players that looked like they were holding a hurley for the first time. No surprise this translated into poor minor and u21 teams a few years later and obviously very little coming through at senior.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭ Dirty Dingus McGee


    A big help in the past was the number of families with multiple players on both hurling and football teams.Off the top of my head the following families have all ireland medals

    Football

    Matt,Murt and Richie Connor
    Liam and Tomas O'Connor
    Stephen and Seamus Darby
    Pat and Mick Fitzgerald
    Brendan,Mick and Sean Lowry

    Hurling

    Aidan and Declan Fogarty
    Mark and Paddy Corrigan
    Joachim and Brendan Kelly
    Jim and John Troy
    Johnny and Declan Pilkington
    Brian,Simon and Barry Whelehan
    Joe,Johnny and Billy Dooley
    Gary and Darren Hanniffy


    With familes being smaller these days means you're never going to get a sitaution like that again where so many players had brothers on the team and 2 or 3 familes at a time could make up a decent part of the team.I have no doubt this sitaution helped us get over being handicapped by being such a small county.We're the only county in the last 50 years in the bottom 10 in population that has won an all ireland at senior level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭ toxicity234


    Cake Man wrote: »
    Can anyone shed some light as to why players from Kilcormac/Kiloughey won't tog out for the county? Would the inclusion of these players significantly improve Offaly? (I doubt it would bring them to the level of a 1A league team but maybe a solid 1b side?)
    Was listening to the game the weekend and WLR (Waterford radio) were talking with Duignan before the game and at HT and made reference to a few players around the county who wouldn't represent them despite being decent hurlers. He genuinely sounded fairly dismayed and didn't think things looked anyway good for Offaly in future.
    It's not Just KK players, some of the KK players have committed and been treated poorly and it goes back a long way. A KK players was in training and picked up a injury that required surgery. He was dropped straight away, no help give to his recovery. had to cover the cost of surgery himself.
    Ger Healion was dropped for Rory hanniffy and he had 3 fracters in his knee.
    Ger has played 3 time at full back for Offaly. Peter Healion has never played centre for Offaly. The list goes on. Brian Leonard and James Gorman last year.
    Kiely different he is completely over hurled.
    But it not just KK lads. Joe and Kevin Brady was treated poorly and lots of other.
    While some players are treated like god, do what they like and get away with it.

    Cake Man wrote: »
    When I was at home a few years ago, I'd always go along to the Tony Forristal (basically the all Ireland U14 championships played in Waterford each August). It's the first taste young lads get of representing their county with plenty going on to become household names at senior years later. The usual counties always had a few standout players that you just knew would go on to better things (good touch, good striking of the ball and generally well able to execute the basics). The last few years I had a look, Offaly teams were terrible and took hammerings in nearly every game they played. Small players that looked like they were holding a hurley for the first time. No surprise this translated into poor minor and u21 teams a few years later and obviously very little coming through at senior.

    Thing are not as bad as got result at senior level. we had an excellent set up and the results were good at u15 and u17 until the County Board messed it up this year by getting rid of the managers.
    They some lovely young hurler in the county. Ben Connolly, Conor Doughlan, Ronan Hughes, Oisin Mahon, Oisin Kelly, Paddy Rigney, Paddy Delenay and Shane Kinsella. I picked these out cause they have the basic on the field they work really hard. something that some in the same age group don't do.

    Questions need to asked about the county.
    Ryan was appointed, Paul Flynn was Forward coach and Gary Longwell was all appointed on the same day before selectors. Flynn and Longwell haven't been in the set up at all.
    When Eammon Kelly was appointed Liam Sheedy was appointed to help but again not involved at all..


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭ dr.kenneth noisewater


    Have a real gra for The Faithful, especially to team of the '90s. They just had skill and stamina, and an FU attitude to all bwgrudgers.

    John Troy was one of the most natural, wristy hurlers I have ever seen play, the first touch, the flick, the ground hurling and the eyes for a score.

    The new facility at Kilcormac looks impressive, hopefully the county will adopt the development squad model and bring lads through. The hurling genes are there.....
    Just wondering what you mean regarding the development squads, are there no teams from U-14 to U17 training togethere?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    Michael Duignan had a lot to say on OTB on Saturday. Well worth a listen if you can get a hold of it. It basically boiled down to people in Offaly realising that they are where they should be and that the blip from 1980-2000 etc was just that, a blip.

    Once that's accepted as hard as it may be, then they can start approaching things properly and building.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭ bennyineire


    Well Flanagan got to boot from the footballers, maybe the time is right for Paschal Kellaghan. Done great work with underage teams and now Rhode.

    I believe he would command respect from the players.

    And also there is a hurling review committee set up, that one makes me laugh TBH


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 danganabu


    It's worth pointing out that for the first 90 years of the GAA, Offaly achieved absolutely zero in hurling. So what happened from 1980-2000 was little short of miraculous.

    Exactly, and the same can be said for the footballers from the 60's to the mid 80's. It was these two periods that were the outliers and not the norm, Offaly incredibly punched way and above their weight and the current situation is unfortunately simply a return to the norm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭ bennyineire


    danganabu wrote: »
    Exactly, and the same can be said for the footballers from the 60's to the mid 80's. It was these two periods that were the outliers and not the norm, Offaly incredibly punched way and above their weight and the current situation is unfortunately simply a return to the norm.

    So what you're saying is that for the 130 year history of the GAA Offaly have been at the top table in either code, that's over 30% of the time.
    Maybe we do have a right the expect more when you look at the numbers like that.

    I would imagine that would get us into the top 10 successful Counties at least


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭ cms88


    More bad news with another manager gone!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭ CK22


    Ah I can understand why he's left to be honest. The moment he said his aim in the Waterford game was not to be slaughtered, he lost all the fans. Like in 2013 under Ollie Baker, we actually competed with the Déise. I know we aren't going to beat them, but jaysus you could try. When you're credentials are managing Antrim and Carlow, you shouldn't be good enough for Offaly


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