Shootings in New York and Arkansas. Will America ever cop the fúck on regarding guns

RedTie

A gunman has opened fire inside a hospital in the Bronx borough of New York, injuring several people, police say.


The man, said to have been dressed as a doctor and armed with a rifle, is now dead, they said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40461573




Will America ever cop the fúck on regarding guns?

Cee-Jay-Cee

RedTie wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40461573


Will America ever cop the fúck on regarding guns?

No because they're A-mericans.

Syphonax

Instant DEATH News, get in.

livedadream

In short. No. The second amendment is one of their most closely guarded rights. It's challenged less than the freedom of speech in the courts over there.

Omackeral

RedTie wrote: »

Will America ever cop the fúck on regarding guns?

No.

McDermotX

Because, if they didn't have those guns, the King of England could walk right in here and start pushing them around.

pjohnson

Nah. More guns will fix things is the americans general solution.

Atlantic Dawn

It's a vicious circle, only for others had guns he would still be shooting.

Timberrrrrrrr

McDermotX wrote: »

Because, if they didn't have those guns, the King of England could walk right in here and start pushing them around.

I'm too busy

Dunno.

If you were going to get shot, then a hospital is a pretty great place to be shot.

Gatling

Shooter was confirmed as an Actual Doctor ,who killed himself at the scene

Samaris

I suspect the point is that New York is a very big place and there's an awful lot of it that is not a hospital in the Bronx, so even if anyone is pootling around NY with boards open on their phone, they're not going to know anything more than we do :P

RedTie

Gatling wrote: »

Shooter was confirmed as an Actual Doctor ,who killed himself at the scene

That's sad to hear.

I'm sure we've all been in that job where we wanted to, in our minds, injure or fantasied about killing an absolute cúnt of a work colleague but we never took it beyond that.

In America you can go "hey! I can easily buy a gun and do this"

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Seems the shooter had a somewhat chickened past
http://nypost.com/2017/06/30/bronx-hospital-gunman-was-a-former-doctor-with-a-sexual-assault-rap/

Irish Guitarist

All hospital staff should be armed with guns and there should be a gun in the locker beside every patients bed.

RedTie

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

All hospital staff should be armed with guns and there should be a gun in the locker beside every patients bed.

Don't be ridiculous,

Besides, if the patient was in too much pain they'd top themselves.

jimmycrackcorm

It's too late to fix the guns problem in the U.S. Possibly some restrictions on semi or full automatic weapons would reduce the problem but only insignificantly.

It's a bit like saying here that we should only allow cars travel at less than 20 km/h because hundreds die in road accidents each year.

Irish Guitarist

RedTie wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous,

Besides, if the patient was in too much pain they'd top themselves.

Don't be a bleeding heart liberal.

pickarooney

Emerald Old Whole-wheat wrote: »

Seems the shooter had a somewhat chickened past
http://nypost.com/2017/06/30/bronx-hospital-gunman-was-a-former-doctor-with-a-sexual-assault-rap/

Can we keep the bestiality to the other thread?

123shooter

Never understood why or the reasoning behind why some people think that banning guns will stop people shooting or even killing each other It's quite possible that they don't know either as they just spout the same old garb that their politics dictates without understanding any of it including their politics.

If you ban anything you will never stop it.........that's fact and proven throughout history.

Illegal guns are more readily available to people now then they have ever been and only a very small amount would be stolen legally owned guns.

I don't think there were many legally owned AK47 assault rifles and machine guns in Ireland between 1969 and what ever date.........but the IRA and others had plenty. Not to mention rocket propelled grenades, shoulder launched missiles and other stuff.

Besides guns are old hat and not efficient enough at wiping people out. If you want to kill en mass now you just use a car, van or truck.

diomed

They defend the right to shoot each other.

123shooter

diomed wrote: »

They defend the right to shoot each other.

Who does?

Erik Shin

There's a law in America... if you have a gun...the cops shoot you dead on sight....and it's now being extended to whites as well !!

pjohnson

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

All hospital staff should be armed with guns and there should be a gun in the locker beside every patients bed.

I dunno you nonsense Liberal Clinton loving anti-Freedom Mexican. Why only one gun. There should be two guns under thier pillow and two guns in the locker, which musn't actually be locked. Thats like 4x the freedom and security of defence. The best part is the Jamacians will pay for it.

diomed

123shooter wrote: »

Who does?

The Americans.
The people who defend this.
"1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011"

123shooter

diomed wrote: »

The Americans.
The people who defend this.
"1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011"

Oh I see. But figures can mean many different things to distort something just as you possibly used them.

For instance.......
How many were shot by law enforcement?
How many shot by accident?
How many shot by suicide?
How many shot in self defence?
How many shot by criminals - robbers etc?
How many shot by terrorists?

Most of these reasons where people are shot, you would never stop by banning guns except the accidental ones.

Then how many shot in murder which I think is the reason you may be referring to? But if someone wants to murder another person then in most cases they will find away to do it by some other means if they do not possess a gun.

So is there a point to banning guns?

Erik Shin

Yes...less people die....how many accidental shootings if children happen in the USA?

123shooter

Erik Shin wrote: »

Yes...less people die....how many accidental shootings if children happen in the USA?

I assume you mean children die in an accidental shooting?

Samaris

123shooter wrote: »

How many were shot by law enforcement?
How many shot by accident?
How many shot by suicide?
How many shot in self defence?
How many shot by criminals - robbers etc?
How many shot by terrorists?

All of those will be lessened by guns not being so easily available.

Law enforcement is being trained and equipped as if they are military due to the potential of being shot and are trained to shoot first, get cleared of reckless endangerment afterwards.

Accidental deaths are often children playing with something that should not have been accessible to them but for a few minutes inattention, was.

Suicides do actually tend to drop when a very easy method is removed from reach. Happened with gas ovens in the UK. Suicides dropped for a bit when they went electric.

Shot in self-defence? No idea, that can be a result of most of the rest depending on the circumstances.

Criminals/etc - Be nice if guns weren't so readily available to criminals.

Terrorists - Very few, but again, be sensible not to encourage them to have them.

All of these deaths you mention are part of the 1.4m that the previous person quoted. Most of them would not have happened if guns were not so freely available. Sure, you can argue that they -all- would have stabbed each other/themselves, but we don't really see that pattern in other countries. We also don't really see the pattern of this many shootings when either a) guns are banned/difficult to access, or b) the people are actually trained in a responsible manner with them, which many Americans can pretty much choose not to bother with because god forbid there's stringent laws around accessing items meant only for killing (unlike, for instance, a knife).

123shooter

Samaris wrote: »

All of those will be lessened by guns not being so easily available.

Samaris to be honest I don't see it any of our business what goes on in other countries but I prefer facts over rumour.

Law enforcement is being trained and equipped as if they are military due to the potential of being shot and are trained to shoot first, get cleared of reckless endangerment afterwards.

Law enforcement in the USA will drop you with their guns if you are a threat in any way EVEN & ESPECIALLY if you are a threat and are not armed with a gun......youtube is full of cops shooting people/crims without guns.

Accidental deaths are often children playing with something that should not have been accessible to them but for a few minutes inattention, was.

I agree and tragic.

Suicides do actually tend to drop when a very easy method is removed from reach. Happened with gas ovens in the UK. Suicides dropped for a bit when they went electric.

Towns gas made from coal was thased out in about 1973 and replaced with North Sea Gas (natural gas) which isn't toxic like Towns gas (carbon monoxide) so sticking your head in oven is pointless unless you light a fag afterwards.....the source of many comedy gags at the time.

Shot in self-defence? No idea, that can be a result of most of the rest depending on the circumstances.

In USA and should be the same everywhere including here. You can legally shoot someone illegally in your home or attacking you

Criminals/etc - Be nice if guns weren't so readily available to criminals.

But they are and very much easily got hold of than legally owned guns where there are restrictions.

Terrorists - Very few, but again, be sensible not to encourage them to have them.

Perhaps you could have a word with them. I think you may not last long.

All of these deaths you mention are part of the 1.4m that the previous person quoted.

Well that was not explained in the post was it?

Most of them would not have happened if guns were not so freely available. Sure, you can argue that they -all- would have stabbed each other/themselves, but we don't really see that pattern in other countries. We also don't really see the pattern of this many shootings when either a) guns are banned/difficult to access, or b) the people are actually trained in a responsible manner with them, which many Americans can pretty much choose not to bother with because god forbid there's stringent laws around accessing items meant only for killing (unlike, for instance, a knife).

What is not publicly stated when people jump on the 'ban all guns' rampage is that there are many countries around the world even in Europe where you can legally own a variety of guns even assault rifles and machine guns but they do not have the same problem as the USA. So banning them is not the answer and could never work. It may reduce some deaths but obviously will not stop them which means that you will still be here banging on about the deaths in America by some other means most possibly.

Samaris

Yes, but in European countries, for the most part guns are strictly controlled and anyone who wants to buy one (or must have one - Switzerland, I believe) is expected to be properly trained and their guns registered. Europe generally does not have this mad culture of "Any attempt to manage guns is THE GOVERNMENT STEALING MAH GUNS" nonsense.

Take the terrorist part with a healthy dose of British understatement! I'm not planning to talk them out of it! But that lack of guns is why European "lone wolves" go for the car/truck notion. It works, and it's a hell of a lot easier although the eventual death toll -tends- to be lower.

Dealing with the American gun problem does not necessarily -mean- removing all the guns. Or even most of the guns. Personally, I would prefer if that was the case, but hell, their choice. But at the least if they introduced stringent and sane gun laws, it might well cut down on the amount being used stupidly or malevolently. And cut down on the sheer amount - 112 guns per 100 people? That is a fcuking ridiculous amount of guns, and that's the gun ownership rate -dropping-. America owns by far the most guns per capita (even if most of them are concentrated into the hands of far less Americans, approx 22% of the population, with half of them being owned by 3% of the population), and comes eleventh on the gun deaths list. It is probably not hugely surprising to note the names above it, like Honduras, Colombia, Brazil, etc. Finland is the highest European gun owning country (6th in ownership, 22nd in gun violence deaths), and there's a similar pattern for other European countries - the higher the gun ownership rate, the higher the general gun violence death rate. I take it to be modified by general conditions in the country regarding either wars or continual unrest as well as training and gun culture (low unrest, high training, low gun culture = less of a death rate than factors being switched around).

We've seen some gun crime over this side of the Atlantic, but it's rare enough really. So it is possible to own guns and not be a complete tool with them as a country. The US doesn't quite seem to have grasped how, and it's mostly because of the idiotic gun culture coupled with relatively poor training for many of those that have them (because it's considered an invasion of privacy to track the damn weapons).

Kivaro

Emerald Old Whole-wheat wrote: »

Seems the shooter had a somewhat chickened past
http://nypost.com/2017/06/30/bronx-hospital-gunman-was-a-former-doctor-with-a-sexual-assault-rap/

Sorry, could not let this one go .....

123shooter

Samaris wrote: »

Yes, but in European countries, for the most part guns are strictly controlled and anyone who wants to buy one (or must have one - Switzerland, I believe) is expected to be properly trained and their guns registered. Europe generally does not have this mad culture of "Any attempt to manage guns is THE GOVERNMENT STEALING MAH GUNS" nonsense.

The governments do not do this to protect citizens, they do it because they see an easy target and a chance to make a name for theirselves or to highlight it at a time when they need to hide bad news.

Even in EU countries you can legally own an assault rifle even though the EU is trying to bring in some draconian laws regarding guns which do not make sense.

Take the terrorist part with a healthy dose of British understatement! I'm not planning to talk them out of it!

I was taking the p**s.:)

But that lack of guns is why European "lone wolves" go for the car/truck notion. It works, and it's a hell of a lot easier although the eventual death toll -tends- to be lower.

Not true think about. I want to kill infidels for Allah, how can I do it? Guns....need cash to buy and would attract attention en-route and run out of ammo so not really efficient...........Steal truck and wipe out people.........requires no money........doesn't attract attention........kill as many as I can keep truck going.........It's what you call a no brainer and a big problem for security.

Dealing with the American gun problem does not necessarily -mean- removing all the guns. Or even most of the guns. Personally, I would prefer if that was the case, but hell, their choice. But at the least if they introduced stringent and sane gun laws, it might well cut down on the amount being used stupidly or malevolently. And cut down on the sheer amount - 112 guns per 100 people? That is a fcuking ridiculous amount of guns, and that's the gun ownership rate -dropping-. America owns by far the most guns per capita (even if most of them are concentrated into the hands of far less Americans, approx 22% of the population, with half of them being owned by 3% of the population), and comes eleventh on the gun deaths list. It is probably not hugely surprising to note the names above it, like Honduras, Colombia, Brazil, etc. Finland is the highest European gun owning country (6th in ownership, 22nd in gun violence deaths), and there's a similar pattern for other European countries - the higher the gun ownership rate, the higher the general gun violence death rate. I take it to be modified by general conditions in the country regarding either wars or continual unrest as well as training and gun culture (low unrest, high training, low gun culture = less of a death rate than factors being switched around).

We've seen some gun crime over this side of the Atlantic, but it's rare enough really. So it is possible to own guns and not be a complete tool with them as a country. The US doesn't quite seem to have grasped how, and it's mostly because of the idiotic gun culture coupled with relatively poor training for many of those that have them (because it's considered an invasion of privacy to track the damn weapons).

It doesn't matter if someone owned a hundred guns he can only physically shoot one at a time.......they will run out of bullets and need to reload.......are very loud and will alert security personel who will very soon take you out.

But I don't know the answer to Americas problems but all the evidence is there for all to see that banning every legal gun there will not make much difference to them or same in any country.

Erik Shin

Guns are bad... Americans are stupid...it's a lethal combo

Actually the type of gun used in this shooting is banned in the state of New York, where the shooting happened.

Zebra3

Are we all so lucky that a country that is in such a mess wants to bomb its way around the world, murdering innocent people to enforce its righteous views on other countries?

:rolleyes:

Nabber

Zebra3 wrote: »

Are we all so lucky that a country that is in such a mess wants to bomb its way around the world, murdering innocent people to enforce its righteous views on other countries?

:rolleyes:

Sounds like ISIS.
I'd rather that USA be the Single super power than have Turkey/China/India/Iran......

123shooter

Nabber wrote: »

Sounds like ISIS.
I'd rather that USA be the Single super power than have Turkey/China/India/Iran......

He does have a very good point?:)

I never understand why Irish people are obsessed with what goes on in other countries that doesn't concern them.......Are you all just super nosey and critical of others or what?

3 pages and nobody has blamed Trump for the shooting yet........give it time:rolleyes:

diomed

123shooter wrote: »

So is there a point to banning guns?

Yes

123shooter

diomed wrote: »

Yes

I am all ears..........have you a valid reason or you just want to impose your morals and ideals on all others?

If you cease the manufacture of all weapons immediately, and could even then magically remove 50% of all existing weapons from circulation, the US would still have more guns than people.

"Gun control" at this point is just sticking your finger in a bursting reservoir. Pointless. Instead of looking at its gun problem America would do a lot better to admit, face up to, and tackle its mental health issues. More lives might be saved that way.

123shooter

Deleted User wrote: »

If you cease the manufacture of all weapons immediately, and could even then magically remove 50% of all existing weapons from circulation, the US would still have more guns than people.

"Gun control" at this point is just sticking your finger in a bursting reservoir. Pointless. Instead of looking at its gun problem America would do a lot better to admit, face up to, and tackle its mental health issues. More lives might be saved that way.

Agreed but removing all of the guns in any country has never and will never remove the problems of people killing other people.

Not ban guns, but severely limit access to them. Police them stricter. There's a reason that many other countries have guns legal, yet

Americans are 10 times more likely to be killed by guns than people in other developed countries, a new study finds.

Compared to 22 other high-income nations, the United States' gun-related murder rate is 25 times higher. And, even though the United States' suicide rate is similar to other countries, the nation's gun-related suicide rate is eight times higher than other high-income countries, researchers said.

Source: CBS News

Say whatever you want, but there is something rotten at America's core.

riffmongous

123shooter wrote: »

He does have a very good point?:)

I never understand why Irish people are obsessed with what goes on in other countries that doesn't concern them.......Are you all just super nosey and critical of others or what?

3 pages and nobody has blamed Trump for the shooting yet........give it time:rolleyes:

You think Ireland has no connection to the US? :rolleyes:

123shooter

riffmongous wrote: »

You think Ireland has no connection to the US? :rolleyes:

Ireland has connections everywhere but I doubt if you will find too many other forums in other countries worrying or talking about what goes on in Ireland or how bad their leader is.

123shooter

123shooter wrote: »

Ireland has connections everywhere but I doubt if you will find too many other forums in other countries worrying or talking about what goes on in Ireland or how bad their leader is.

If our leader were as bad as Trump, they probably would.

123shooter

Deleted User wrote: »

If our leader were as bad as Trump, they probably would.

But if he is he is there not here and no matter what you or I say here ain't gonna change what he does there.

dr.fuzzenstein

123shooter wrote: »

He does have a very good point?:)

I never understand why Irish people are obsessed with what goes on in other countries that doesn't concern them.......Are you all just super nosey and critical of others or what?

3 pages and nobody has blamed Trump for the shooting yet........give it time:rolleyes:

Trump is the Messiah! His Muslim ban and Mexican border wall will immediately solve this problem once and for all. It will be terrific, you know, the greatest thing ever, all his friends say so. And then we can all relax with our cup of covfefe.
And then he'll drain the swamp. It'll be awesome.

123shooter

Jeez I wish it would stop raining then I can off here and get out..........anybody know any good porn sites.

Ulysses Gaze

Nightclub Creep wrote: »

The truth is racist?

How many bruddas killed in Chicongo last year?

You could make the point with statistics to back up your point.

Not making comments like this that expose you as a racist. And ensure you will be banned.

123shooter wrote: »

Jeez I wish it would stop raining then I can off here and get out..........anybody know any good porn sites.

Plenty around. But it depends what your kinks are.

wes

Mass shootings are pretty much a daily thing in the US now, and the NRA are basically acting like a terrorist organization:

The NRA recruitment video that is even upsetting gun owners


It is only going to get worse imo.