Home heating automation

deezell

You should replace your Tado TRV heads with the manual ones, and bring your Tado TRVs with you. If its too much bother to take the wired in stat, assuming you don't have a wireless connected one to the extention kit or HW control, you will only need another Tado Wired starter kit for the new house. Its just a wired wall digital stat as far as the plumber is concerned, so if there is a manual wall stat in the new house, it replaces it. Tado TRV's will go straight onto the radiators if they already have manual TRV heads in them. It's straightforward to pair to the Bridge, and will run in manual mode until you get a router up and running. If you take your existing Tado trvs with you, unpair them on the app, so they can be connected to a new Tado stat. If you leave the Tado stat behind, you will have to deregister it from your Tado Account so that the new owner can open a Tado account and add it to his.

When my son moved house this year, he left his Tado stat, as the new house had Heatmiser Neo installed. The Tado was working away as a manual wall stat once his router and broadband were disconnected, but we should have taken it as the new owners didn't make any effort to reconnect it and have the registration handed over, though it was offered. Probably in a drawer now.

ablelocks

not sure yet if it's related to installing the wired tado thermostat, and it could have been happening before I installed the tado, but having issues with the zones that ye may be able to advise on?

3 Zones

Zone 1 = Living Area with Tado thermostat

Zone 2 = Downstairs bedrooms

Zone 3 = Upstairs Bedrooms

If heating is on in Zone 1, heating in the other 2 zones won't come on until we turn off the tado zone at the control unit.

however, if 2 is on, 3 won't come on at the same time.

sometimes, if 3 is on, 2 will work. But if 2 is on first, 3 won't

and variations of the same.

Is this something that possibly needs a professional to check?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179568#Comment_118179568

I've looked back there to your earlier posts. You replaced three wired wall stats with three wired tados. Following this you should have set your old 4 zone timer (3CH plus HW) to always on for the three CH zones, as each Tado wired stat will take care of both timing and temperature control via the app. If your Timer controller had only a single timed output to all 3 zone stats, its still the same, you need always on live to the Com connection of each of the Tado wired stats, which will Time/Temperature control their respective zone valves.

Check that the Tados are wired correctly, that the Live in and Switched live out back to the Zone valves are connected to the Common (Com) and Normally Open (NO) terminals of each Tado. Otherwise, the Tado will be turning on that zone when it should be off.

Finally, check that each stat is a distinct zone on the App, and is configured to use itself as the switching zone device for the zone, and not the primary stat on the list. This can happen in a single zoned system where you have additional stats to measure temperatures in other areas, so the extra stats are just sensors for the main stat, and fire the boiler through it's relay. In Settings/Rooms and Devices/ there is a list of rooms or zones, with the stat for each one listed under a user defined room name. To the right of this name a right facing arrow opens a sub menu for that device, and at the bottom is an entry for Zone Controller. Check that the RU.... serial no. on this is the same as the Room stat, other wise calls for heat from one stat are actually triggering a different stat.

There are other complex loops that can arise if a wall stat is wired back to the controller with both NO and NC terminals used, in order to set up a priority system, (e.g, HW call temporarily overrides some or all CH zones). This would have been apparent when swapping the wired Tado for the older wall stats, but I'm assuming they were just 2 wire installations.

ablelocks

thanks Deezell - to clarify, I've only one Tado zone so far - the plan was to put in 3 - but i wanted to get this issue sorted before buying and installing the next 2 wired tados.

I suspect the issue was there prior to the Tado being installed - could it be an issue with the motorised zone valves rather than the thermostats?

(i took photos of the the pre-wiring and post wiring of the tado that i could post if you wouldn't mind taking a look)

deezell

Post the pictures. It sounds also like you may have some zone valves stuck open. You'll have to establish that your three CH zones lus HW zone were independent with the old stats. The boiler should be fired by a combination of live outputs from the relays built into the zone valves, not from the timed lives from the controller/wall stats, as cross connection of these just means one zone will open the others valves. You will have to ensure your system was operating correctly in S plan mode with the existing stats. It's not rocket science, but does require tradesmen with plumbing logic / wiring skills to understand and implement correctly.

ablelocks

thanks Deezell - i think i need to get the valves checked and go from there.

I think I'll get a tradesman. But not the luddite that came to change one of the valves last year!

willciviceg5

Hi all, I’ve been thinking of doing this for a year and I am thinking now is the time with the current discounts but definitely need some guidance. It’s an oil burner and I don’t have separate hot water control. I have an immersion but don’t need smart control of that. I currently have an old Flash Immermat timer and two wired thermostats one in the kitchen and one in the master bedroom so a zone for upstairs and a zone for downstairs. I’d like to keep the existing zones but also add smart trv’s to 4 other rooms in an old part of the house to add another “zone” as this part of the house is not as well insulated and when this part of the house is cold the master bedroom is uncomfortably hot. I’ve been thinking of Tado but am open to suggestions. What would people recommend for my set up? Thanks in advance.

deezell

A Tado wired starter kit, plus an extra wired stat, straight swap for your wall stats, turn the old wall timer to fully on (assuming it's not directly wired to fire the boiler, but just sends timed live to the stats, from there to the zone valves, then from their relays to fire the boiler). You're certain the boiler doesn't heat HW, only radiators?

A type of gravity HW heating is often implemented with a single mechanical timer. This fires the boiler, which only heats HW, until the stats are turned up bringing in the CH zone valves.

Blue4u

My chance my arm here...have a Drayton Wiser system installed. Everything is working great. Have left two radiators without any smart TRV or any TRV.

Anyway one radiator for some reason heats if you boost any of the radiators. No idea why it happens. Any idea?

It also says to recalibrate to hold to - sign for 5 seconds but that doesn't seem to work. Maybe someone else has installed and seen similar isse

willciviceg5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192834#Comment_118192834

Hi, thanks for the answer, yes the CH does heat the water but i don’t have separate control of it. At the moment the zone valve motors are actually disconnected from the valves as the room thermostats stopped working a couple of years back and I just manually opened them and just use the timer on and off. I want to reinstate the room thermostats. The fact that I can use the heating without the thermostats and motors I assume means that the timer is wired directly to fire the boiler?

deezell

If the timer fires the boiler with both valves closed, then it would be wired direct. If you have to open either valve for the boiler to fire, timer on, then the valve relays are firing the boiler. My guess is its wired direct, which would be a normal enough so you could use the boiler for HW only during the summer by turning down both stats.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118194107#Comment_118194107

Firstly. Swap the TRV head just to make sure it works on a different valve. If that valve now stays open, then there's a problem with the TRV head. If it remains on the same valve, it can only mean that the TRV valve body is sticking open, or there is some thing blocking the valve seat from fully closing the flow.

Take off the TRV head, spray some wd40 onto the valve pin and work it up and down to make sure it moves freely without sticking, grinding internally or needing excessive force. Do this while there is hot flow to help dislodge possible grit. If you can find an old TRV valve blanking cap which can be screwed on and down onto the pin, try this to see if you can seal off the rad when there is hot flow. Also check that this TRV valve is identical to the others that work fine, same thread depth and pin height.

chewed

hi, looking for some advice. A few years ago I updated my heating in the house and had a thermostat in the landing. I would love the option to be able to turn on/off the heating and water from my phone, instead of going out the utility room to advance. Anyone know if there's any simple/cheap solution for this?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211390#Comment_118211390

Yes, replace that box with either the Drayton wiser Kit 2 CH and HW controller, with wireless stat, or the Tado wireless starter kit, CH and HW control and also wireless wall stat (or on a table stand). Great value black friday prices atm.

chewed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211491#Comment_118211491

OK thanks for that. Would I need an electrician and/or plumber to do this?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211507#Comment_118211507

An electrician or a competent DIYer, in both cases there's just 5 wires to be connected inside the receiver box that replaces the EPH controller. Live, Neutral and Earth mains in, and two switched live out wires to the respective CH and HW zone valves. If you loosen the case screw and pop the EPH controller off its wiring backplate, take a photo, it's very easy to see which wire is which, and how they are mapped to the terminals of the replacement controller. I've posted the Tado and Drayton wiring here many times . Drayton 1 zone CH plus HW control is only £97 with Irish vat on Amazon this minute, quite a bargain. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075GRPZQ2/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_dl_NNFYC0QGA6T0F90SC49E

Tado around £139 for wireless starter kit including a stand for the stat (or wall mounted if preferred)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B098BKHT3R/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_dl_MM6A937Q391C9478QKJN?psc=1

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211491#Comment_118211491

not great prices for Wiser TRV. They were £40, now they're £50 (no doubt to be "reduced" to 40 in a few days)

deezell

But get the multi room kit, you get 2 TRVs for £55 extra over the CH/HW starter kit. You'll easily sell this part on its own, it's €178 new in Screwfix. Sell for €120+, keep the TRV's.

TRVs were €48 in Screwfix Ireland, equivalent to £39.35 from UK, but out of stock here.

dashoonage

Hey guys

im looking to automate my mothers heating, she currently has a 24hr timer clock similar to this

No zone's nothing fancy, current method of operation is constant on or constant off :P id simply like to be able to turn this on or off remotely or set a timer for her remotely ? No zones, no thermostat. Yes i know this is much better but shes 75 lads, there is no talking to a 75 year old mammy!

is there a simple way of doing this without using a hive or the likes?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118214351#Comment_118214351

Starting with a remote timer plug like this, https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01M5DYUEG/ref=cm_sw_r_awdo_navT_g_BNXPCYRN7J3XB6DTSS40

replace the mechanical timer with an ordinary plug and socket , insert this in the path.

You can get a more elaborate wired in version, with displays etc.

You might want something that has a manual override or boost button, something an old person could press for an hour of extra boiler firing, rather than having to fiddle with an app. A single zone hive stat is still a better option, the wireles battery stat can be put anywhere, set to a comfortable temperature and ignored. The receiver will replace the old timer, it has a single boost button for manual use, while you can set up a timed schedule on the app.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118195486#Comment_118195486

Seem to be struggling to resolve. Tried all of the above but still water flowing to the rad. Am I correct when the button is pressed down then it is open?

deezell

No, its the opposite. Fully pressed down is closed. If you push it down fully with a heavy weight, or bodge up a screw clamp, then it should go cold during hot flow. If it doesn't, then there's a faulty seal in the valve. The force required to fully depress to seal is not that great, just about bearable if you use your thumb. If it does seal with modest force, it may be that the valve body is a mechanically odd one that needs an adapter to properly close when using the TRV head.

chewed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211390#Comment_118211390

I was just quoted €675 to install the EPH Ember Wifi Enabled Heating Controls (New 2 Zone EPH Programmer, Wireless EPH Wall Stat, Wireless EPH Hot Water Cylinder Stat, & EPH Gateway)

Seems like a lot of money to spend when it looks like something like a Tado would do!

deezell

About €300 retail for the EPH hardware, fitter probably gets Trade discount on this. The only wiring is to substitute the receiver for your existing controller. Is the installer also getting the heating controls upgrade grant, assuming its still available.

Tado wireless two zone was about €149 during black friday from amazon.de, but Tado or Drayton don't have wireless HW cylinder stat. It's coming in at about €192 on amazon.uk. Drayton wiser 2 zone about €158. If you don't already have a cylinder stat, it's easy enough to get a mechanical one fitted on the cylinder to control the HW zone valve. Remote setting of HW temperature is not something you really need.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118241143#Comment_118241143

Sorry I should have been more clear, I was running out door when I posted. For whatever reason when I push down on the valve it opens it and water starts to flow. Something is seriously up with it. It looks the same as every other one in the house. It would confirm why it seems to be on all the time when it is supposed to be off. I think the valve needs replacement which is a step too far for my skills. The bonus is that the valve is in kitchen so its the room we use all the time so the heat won't go to waste

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118194107#Comment_118194107

I'm having a similar problem at the moment.

We've had the Drayton Wiser setup installed for the last year with no issues. We'd left the hall, bathroom, spare room and sitting room (that we don't use much) on manual TRVs.

Over the weekend, I added a new TRV to the sitting room and it worked fine. Then yesterday morning (when the home office was calling for heat, the sitting room has heated up to 22c. Same thing again this morning.

Through comparing the graphs for the various rooms it seems that whenver the home office calls for heat, the downstairs sitting room is also. The sitting room was sticking to it's own schedule perfectly over the weekend (when the office is not set to heat).

Same again this morning, graphs attached:

2021-11-30 12.21.53.png

2021-11-30 12.22.01.png

I've emailed Drayton and uploaded my logs from the app but no response as of yet.

Any ideas? I should add that it's not just the room getting warm, the radiator is roasting to touch and the office is upstairs and not directly above the sitting room.

deezell

Its most likely that the TRV is remaining open at the end of its own schedule, so it heats when another TRV calls the boiler. It could be low batteries, or needs to be calibrated. Could also be a stuck valve body pin.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250376#Comment_118250376

I'm thinking that now also, it does seem to be heating when any of the other rads are callign for heat, it was just more pronounced with the office being the sole heat demand on a monday am. It's a brand new TRV with new batteries, how would i diagnose a stuck valve body pin. I was able to depress the pin fully with some effort usign a hard surface against it, it felt like the same effort to get it to move was enough to get it to depress fully.

deezell

Downward force on the pin of a few Kg should be enough to fully depress. If you have some dumbell weights you can attach to a short rod and push it closed, then run another trv and see does it heat. If it does then the trv valve is not closing fully. If it stays cold, then the trv head is not pushing the pin down sufficiently.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118250376#Comment_118250376

How do you re-calibrate the Drayton Wiser ones? It says hold to "-" for 5 seconds but it doesn't work for mine