Jobstown 6 Not Guilty

Professor Moriarty

sbsquarepants wrote: »

How is that not a contradiction?

How can justice be served, but the verdict be wrong?

My opinion is that the verdict is wrong but that's just my opinion as a randomer on the internet. Doesn't influence the process of justice. Justice was served because they were subject to due process.

Zebra3

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I would certainly hope so. We'll have to see what happens when the IFA surrounds a minister's car and intimidates the occupants for two hours.

As has been proven, this didn't happen in Jobstown. The car was not surrounded and could have left another way.

Keep repeating the lies of the establishment though....

VinLieger

sbsquarepants wrote: »

How is that not a contradiction?

How can justice be served, but the verdict be wrong?

Justice being served and holding an opinion of whether somebody did something wrong regardless of the verdict are not the same thing, they don't contradict each other in the slightest.

Professor Moriarty

Zebra3 wrote: »

As has been proven, this didn't happen in Jobstown. The car was not surrounded and could have left another way.

Keep repeating the lies of the establishment though....

So what happened to Burton isn't a problem? No problem if it happens to your mother? Ok.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can stack a jury, you cannot guarantee what that jury will decide though if the evidence is so overwhelming the judge directs the jury to ignore the critical evidence givers.

It is perfectly legitimate to say that the 'system' believed or needed these men to be guilty. They did their 'best' to ensure a guilty verdict. It didn't work.

Well yes its is the DPP's job to ensure a guilty verdict just like its the defence's job to ensure a not guilty verdict not sure where your going with this tbh.

sheepo

Absolutely delighted with today's verdict. As soon as the video evidence from the Garda helicopter came to light I felt it would have to be a not-guilty verdict.

This case should never have been brought and there are serious questions to be answered by Gardai and other witnesses who have been shown to have been extremely economical with the truth when delivering evidence under oath.

The establishment in this country are far too quick to try and demonise what they call the far left and their bully-boy tactics have backfired spectacularly in this case.

Professor Moriarty

Amazing the amount of posters with very few posts who are all over this thread. Definitely not concerted. No Siree Bob.

A Dub in Glasgo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So what happened to Burton isn't a problem? No problem if it happens to your mother? Ok.

This not guilty verdict does not demonstrate that the jury thought what happened to Burton was OK or not a problem. It demonstrated that the DPP were utterly wrong to bring this charge against the accused.

You have already stated that it was absolutely correct to bring this charge and the jury was wrong

sbsquarepants

VinLieger wrote: »

Justice being served and holding an opinion of whether somebody did something wrong regardless of the verdict are not the same thing, they don't contradict each other in the slightest.

How so?

Say you believe that a man guilty of murder has gotten off scot free, how do you reconcile that with justice being served in that case?

Allinall

sheepo wrote: »

Absolutely delighted with today's verdict. As soon as the video evidence from the Garda helicopter came to light I felt it would have to be a not-guilty verdict.

This case should never have been brought and there are serious questions to be answered by Gardai and other witnesses who have been shown to have been extremely economical with the truth when delivering evidence under oath.

The establishment in this country are far too quick to try and demonise what they call the far left and their bully-boy tactics have backfired spectacularly in this case.

Are the far left not part of the establishment?

sheepo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Amazing the amount of posters with very few posts who are all over this thread. Definitely not concerted. No Siree Bob.

Yeah my handlers in the Kremlin sent me straight here as soon as the verdict was announced :rolleyes:

Sorry I didn't realise a high post-count was a pre-requisite for making a point here.

sheepo

Allinall wrote: »

Are the far left not part of the establishment?

I suppose that's a matter of opinion - I don't consider them to be.

VinLieger

sbsquarepants wrote: »

How so.

If you believe that a man guilty of murder has gotten off scot free, how do you reconcile that with justice being served?

Okay do you believe a garlic smuggler should have gotten 6 years in prison? Of course not its ridiculous BUT thats justice being served.

If the evidence is similarly not there to call a person you believe to be a murderer guilty then that is also Justice being served.

Justice and your opinion of a persons actions are two completely different things

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

Well yes its is the DPP's job to ensure a guilty verdict just like its the defence's job to ensure a not guilty verdict not sure where your going with this tbh.

Yes, and the question is, did the DPP do their job in an independent way. It is perfectly legitimate to believe they didn't.

VinLieger

Allinall wrote: »

Are the far left not part of the establishment?

SHHH we don't talk about that contradiction

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

LOL at the pictures of these eejits cheering and shouting about justice being done outside the courthouse while the sheep behind them hold up signs saying "no faith in the system"..... well which is it? Or is it as usual the loony left want it both ways depending on which one suits them best at the time?

both as they did nothing wrong hence justice was done, and the establishment tried to jail them for protesting hence no faith in the system for the most part.
they did nothing to croney joaney apart from inconvenience her. i'm sure it wasn't nice for her but we must be proportionate about what actually happened.
anyway the subverting of democracy has failed. well done all.

TheShow

Not guilty, however a peaceful protest it was not. Nobody can condone what happened there regardless of who the person trapped in the car was.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, and the question is, did the DPP do their job in an independent way. It is perfectly legitimate to believe they didn't.

Elaborate on what you mean by "did the DPP do their job in an independent way"

Professor Moriarty

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

This not guilty verdict does not demonstrate that the jury thought what happened to Burton was OK or not a problem. It demonstrated that the DPP were utterly wrong to bring this charge against the accused.

You have already stated that it was absolutely correct to bring this charge and the jury was wrong

Yes. That doesn't mean that I therefore don't believe justice was served. Just because, in my opinion, the jury made a mistake in this case doesn't mean that the process is invalid. It's not perfect but it's the best we have and it's damn good when you consider alternatives around the world. In this case, I'm not a judge, witness, defendant, lawyer, Garda, DPP. Therefore my opinion on the verdict doesn't matter. They were subject to due process and the DPP was absolutely right to bring a prosecution based on the evidence.

Professor Moriarty

sheepo wrote: »

Yeah my handlers in the Kremlin sent me straight here as soon as the verdict was announced :rolleyes:

Sorry I didn't realise a high post-count was a pre-requisite for making a point here.

Knew it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yes. That doesn't mean that I therefore don't believe justice was served. Just because, in my opinion, the jury made a mistake in this case doesn't mean that the process is invalid. It's not perfect but it's the best we have and it's damn good when you consider alternatives around the world. In this case, I'm not a judge, witness, defendant, lawyer, Garda, DPP. Therefore my opinion on the verdict doesn't matter. They were subject to due process and the DPP was absolutely right to bring a prosecution based on the evidence.

Why do you think the jury made a mistake?

VinLieger

end of the road wrote: »

both as they did nothing wrong hence justice was done, and the establishment tried to jail them for protesting hence no faith in the system for the most part.
they did nothing to croney joaney apart from inconvenience her. i'm sure it wasn't nice for her but we must be proportionate about what actually happened.
anyway the subverting of democracy has failed. well done all.

Please explain how this was an attempt to subvert democracy? At what point was the entire system of democracy under threat?

sbsquarepants

VinLieger wrote: »

Justice and your opinion of a persons actions are two completely different things

OK I'm with you. I meant justice more in the primordial "got what they deserved" sense.

Justice being served, as in the justice system being followed to the letter, I see your point.

Professor Moriarty

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Why do you think the jury made a mistake?

Based on the evidence as reported, I would have argued against acquittal. But as I keep saying, my opinion on the verdict is irrelevant to the process.

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

Elaborate on what you mean by "did the DPP do their job in an independent way"

It is perfectly legitimate to ask the question - was pressure put on the DPP by political elements?

jimmycrackcorm

sheepo wrote:

The establishment in this country are far too quick to try and demonise what they call the far left and their bully-boy tactics have backfired spectacularly in this case.

Would you be happy with a bunch of rowdy right wing supporters preventing Murphy from getting out of his car for three hours, or does the far left only get to play the victim card?

Professor Moriarty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is perfectly legitimate to ask the question - was pressure put on the DPP by political elements?

Pressure from the AAA for the DPP not to prosecute this case? I would hope not.

VinLieger

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is perfectly legitimate to ask the question - was pressure put on the DPP by political elements?

Do you believe considering how nobody in this country can hold their piss we wouldnt know if pressure had been applied? Also considering how much the DPP fumbled this and the Fitzpatrick case that they are competent enough to not have let it slip if they were pressured?

It was the right verdict. Claiming they were being denied the right to protest is nonsense. Peaceful protest is available to everyone. That wasn't a peaceful protest. It was thuggery of the highest order.

No doubt they'll be jumping on the bin charge bandwagon next.

FrancieBrady

VinLieger wrote: »

Do you believe considering how nobody in this country can hold their piss we wouldnt know if pressure had been applied? Also considering how much the DPP fumbled this and the Fitzpatrick case that they are competent enough to not have let it slip if they were pressured?

I have no idea.
The point I was making was that it is a legitimate point of view to have that the 'system' is stacked against you.