Calf tagged with no card and tb testing

hopgirl

We have the TB testing coming up next week. We have a week old calf that we are going to tag but the card might not be back on time. Will it still be OK to test without the calf's card?
We would have tagged the calf sooner but he had aspiration pneumonia.

Water John

Shove it in the post tomorrow. It's not your fault if it's not gone through. Won't be an issue. Vet will log in the number.

hopgirl

Water John wrote: »

Shove it in the post tomorrow. It's not your fault if it's not gone through. Won't be an issue. Vet will log in the number.

Thank you. When the card comes back I can bring it into the vet.

whelan2

They dont stamp the cards anymore so no need to send them in

The part time boy

Can anyone give me a reason why we need cards anymore ?

I trying to think of a good reason but can't see one really

whelan2

The part time boy wrote: »

Can anyone give me a reason why we need cards anymore ?

I trying to think of a good reason but can't see one really

I suppose for handing over ownership?

The part time boy

There the mart or private sale receipt for that or more important the cheque !

If you get a card and no movement is done on ag food the passport is worthless

whelan2

The part time boy wrote: »

There the mart or private sale receipt for that or more important the cheque !

If you get a card and no movement is done on ag food the passport is worthless

Card is to be given with movement permit is it not ?

dohc turbo2

Last time was same thing for me and when card came back it was printed on it the test date , rest the vet had stamped in

Water John

The card is a Dept of Ag owned document, not yours, TMK.

Base price

whelan2 wrote: »

Card is to be given with movement permit is it not ?

Card is suppose to be in the same place (farm, mart etc) as the animal.
Also the card forms part of the traceability system operated by the Dept.
Our Vet still stamps the cards and I prefer if all cards were stamped like they used to be but thats only my personal preference.

Water John

Date stamp of the last test is fine. Vet now doesn't have to sign each card. Lovely work for her in front of the telly signing 500 cards.

The part time boy

Ok ye said what the passport meant to do which I knew.

But no one come up with a problem (yet) that would result if passports where to be withdrawn in the morning .....

whelan2

Why would they be withdrawn?

The part time boy

whelan2 wrote: »

Why would they be withdrawn?

Cause if no one can come up with a good problem it cause not having them why should be have them ...lol

Water John

I think Part Time Boy wants it, all 'in the cloud'?

The part time boy

Water John wrote: »

I think Part Time Boy wants it, all 'in the cloud'?

Afraid what I want is immaterial .

It's all ready up there in ag food !

Buy getting rid of cards we not be pitting more stuff in a "cloud" .

Lads that don't like cloud can still have there blue books so they be able to have something in there hands .

Mooooo

The cards will be gone eventually, it may depend on getting the last few farmers signed up to agfood etc, They prob cost a bit in printing the lost ones not a mind the origional

The part time boy

I think your right . All bps to be online next year. Only a matter of time .

Apart from farmers liking to have a list of cattle I don't see the point / Need for the blue book as it's all on at food whether your signed up or not .

Base price

The part time boy wrote: »

I think your right . All bps to be online next year. Only a matter of time .

Apart from farmers liking to have a list of cattle I don't see the point / Need for the blue book as it's all on at food whether your signed up or not .

What about the thousands of farmers who are not computer literate let alone those that have terrible internet connection. Agfood is useless unless you have the technical ability to use it.

The part time boy

Base price wrote: »

The part time boy wrote: »

I think your right . All bps to be online next year. Only a matter of time .

Apart from farmers liking to have a list of cattle I don't see the point / Need for the blue book as it's all on at food whether your signed up or not .

What about the thousands of farmers who are not computer literate let alone those that have terrible internet connection. Agfood is useless unless you have the technical ability to use it.

Not saying it's the right thing to do . Only that the way I see it going .

But as I said I don't see what it matter if the blue book his given up . A old lad never need to "log " in and still won't make a difference .

The more I think of it it probably make more sense to get rid of blue book and keep cards

hopgirl

His tagged now. And off in the post tomorrow.
I say the cards will go eventually online even when dad was ordering tags they were pushing him to go online. Now dad is OK going on the internet to look up stuff but when it came to signing up online he wouldn't have a clue.
He likes have paper or cards in his hand rather than trying to find it online. I did it for him but if he didn't have me I can see where farmers having trouble if they don't know how to use technology, and my mother is no good with technology.

tanko

hopgirl wrote: »

We have the TB testing coming up next week. We have a week old calf that we are going to tag but the card might not be back on time. Will it still be OK to test without the calf's card?
We would have tagged the calf sooner but he had aspiration pneumonia.

Maybe I'm wrong but i always thought that calves less than six weeks old don't have to be tested unless the herd owner wants them tested?

Sheep breeder

Base price wrote: »

What about the thousands of farmers who are not computer literate let alone those that have terrible internet connection. Agfood is useless unless you have the technical ability to use it.

If you can get donedeal you will have the ability for AgFood.

hopgirl

tanko wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong but i always thought that calves less than six weeks old don't have to be tested unless the herd owner wants them tested?

Tanko I think you are right, a poster on another post said under six weeks if selling now but we won't be selling this calf until November. So the test would need to be done and we are testing all our cattle that day.

tanko

As long as the calf is tagged when tested and registered properly i wouldn't worry about not having its card on the day of the test.

Nekarsulm

Sheep breeder wrote: »

If you can get donedeal you will have the ability for AgFood.

I find AgFood a very awkwardly designed site. Too many buttons and not laid out with any logical "flow" about it.
Even just doing a farm to farm movement /printing cert/ compliance etc. seems to be made unnecessarily "clunky".

Water John

See an elderly man in the bank yesterday. Was told he would now have to do what he wanted, online. The bewildered look on the poor man's face.

pedigree 6

Water John wrote: »

See an elderly man in the bank yesterday. Was told he would now have to do what he wanted, online. The bewildered look on the poor man's face.

Let me guess.

Bank of Ireland?

Byrnie55483

The tagging system requires the application by the keeper of two identically numbered yellow plastic eartags to all calves born on a holding within twenty days of birth. Keepers are obliged to order their annual requirement of eartags directly from the tag supplier approved by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. They do this by completing the tag order card sent to them by the approved tag supplier and returning it with the appropriate fee. On application of a pair of tags to a calf, the keeper must complete a corresponding and identically numbered registration application form, which is supplied with each pair of tags.

Water John

55483, what's your point?

Yes BOI. Now doing us a great favour. There staying in the town but cash desk will be open from 10-12.30 each day!!

Byrnie55483

Water John wrote: »

55483, what's your point?

Yes BOI. Now doing us a great favour. There staying in the town but cash desk will be open from 10-12.30 each day!!

The point is Water, that any calfs not tagged within the time period situated , must be reported to the Department, asking for a time extended period and reasons why you failed to tag the calf in the given period , they will then send out a set of tags and a herd card for the Farmer to fill in, the card will have sections to fill in details about the calf e.g birth date , breed ect ..

Nekarsulm

Byrnie55483 wrote: »

The tagging system requires the application by the keeper of two identically numbered yellow plastic eartags to all calves born on a holding within twenty days of birth. Keepers are obliged to order their annual requirement of eartags directly from the tag supplier approved by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. They do this by completing the tag order card sent to them by the approved tag supplier and returning it with the appropriate fee. On application of a pair of tags to a calf, the keeper must complete a corresponding and identically numbered registration application form, which is supplied with each pair of tags.

The OP stated that the calf was a week old at time of tagging so all is good. Well within the 3week timeframe mandated by Dept.

Water John

Of course, every farmer tags his/her cattle correctly.

Byrnie55483

Water John wrote: »

Of course, every farmer tags his/her cattle correctly.

Well sorry mr Water , but is it illegal to pass judgement on issues concerning to tagging his/her calfs on the farm ??, as I thought you would be aware that there are always a few Cowboys in every kind of trade , who ruin things for the rest off the community , and in this community it would be the farming community!!

The part time boy

Still waiting for a example of a problem from the outcome of passports been discontinued lol

Base price

The part time boy wrote: »

Still waiting for a example of a problem from the outcome of passports been discontinued lol

As previously said people who are not computer literate having difficulty completing movement forms without having the cards at hand. There are a considerable number of farmers at I deal with who continue to use the manual certificate of compliance.

The part time boy

Base price wrote: »

The part time boy wrote: »

Still waiting for a example of a problem from the outcome of passports been discontinued lol

As previously said people who are not computer literate having difficulty completing movement forms without having the cards at hand. There are a considerable number of farmers at I deal with who continue to use the manual certificate of compliance.

Can they not write the number from the blue book ?

Base price

The part time boy wrote: »

Can they not write the number from the blue book ?

There maybe an error in the blue book or their eyesight may not be the best as the space for the numbers in the blue book is limited. The card is the official document to accompany the animal and in fairness the tag numbers are printed large and bold to aid viewing.
I know that calf exporters have scanners and software that scans the bar code on the card. I doubt that they would be impressed with having to manually input the details for the 96,000 calves (131,000 livestock) that have been exported from Ireland so far this year.
I assume that the factories have similar software that aids the Dept Vets (on site) and factory personnel to process the volume of cattle that pass through their premises.
There just some of the important uses for blue cards that I can think off the top of my head.

Sheep breeder

Base price wrote: »

There maybe an error in the blue book or their eyesight may not be the best as the space for the numbers in the blue book is limited. The card is the official document to accompany the animal and in fairness the tag numbers are printed large and bold to aid viewing.
I know that calf exporters have scanners and software that scans the bar code on the card. I doubt that they would be impressed with having to manually input the details for the 96,000 calves (131,000 livestock) that have been exported from Ireland so far this year.
I assume that the factories have similar software that aids the Dept Vets (on site) and factory personnel to process the volume of cattle that pass through their premises.
There just some of the important uses for blue cards that I can think off the top of my head.

The exporters and factory can scan the bar code on the tag and up load and not have to put in manually, same as scanning EID sheep tag. The blue card is no longer required.

Sheep breeder

Byrnie55483 wrote: »

The point is Water, that any calfs not tagged within the time period situated , must be reported to the Department, asking for a time extended period and reasons why you failed to tag the calf in the given period , they will then send out a set of tags and a herd card for the Farmer to fill in, the card will have sections to fill in details about the calf e.g birth date , breed ect ..

The above is incorrect the animal is a late registration after 27 days, never herd of sending out set of tags and herd card !!!!

Water John

Yeah, electronic tagging and readers will eliminate the need.

Sheep breeder

Water John wrote: »

Yeah, electronic tagging and readers will eliminate the need.

The present tag is bar coded and presently can be scanned and transferred directly to a health cert, have seen a calf exporter do this in seconds and fill out a farm to farm movement form for calves sold.

Base price

Sheep breeder wrote: »

The exporters and factory can scan the bar code on the tag and up load and not have to put in manually, same as scanning EID sheep tag. The blue card is no longer required.

Why handle each animal (x96,000) to scan a tag that could be dirty, scan the other when a high volume of cards can be scanned in seconds.
EID tags are only suitable for establishments that have appropriate devices and a requirement (robot milking, calf feeding) to read them.
Most drystock/suckler farmers would not have such a requirement nor would the financial outlay for electronic interfaces be warranted.
The drive for our lives to be controlled more by electronics is not one that I'm in favour off. The old saying "paper never refused ink" is apt, I think I prefer to stick with my blue cards.

Sheep breeder

Base price wrote: »

Why handle each animal (x96,000) to scan a tag that could be dirty, scan the other when a high volume of cards can be scanned in seconds.
EID tags are only suitable for establishments that have appropriate devices and a requirement (robot milking, calf feeding) to read them.
Most drystock/suckler farmers would not have such a requirement nor would the financial outlay for electronic interfaces be warranted.
The drive for our lives to be controlled more by electronics is not one that I'm in favour off. The old saying "paper never refused ink" is apt, I think I prefer to stick with my blue cards.

Animals do not have to be individually handle to scan and the bar code is on the back of the tag and all 96000 have to read regardless,all export premises use a hand held scanner which are now at a small cost with technology moving on so rapid and so efficient. If the dept decide to do away with the card as is the plan it will be done as the card is their property as the herd owner is only the keeper.

Water John

Presume an app on the phone will be capable to scan?

Base price

Water John wrote: »

Presume an app on the phone will be capable to scan?

I'm sure there is but then it has to interface with Agfood or one of the farm packages like Herdwatch.
At the moment (with blue cards) there is no financial cost for us whereas if the Dept changes away from the current system to an all electronic scanning system, would it be free? Also the problem of older farmers not having any technological experience - would they have to pay their ag consultants/planners to complete basic tasks like farm to farm movements?

whelan2

Base price wrote: »

I'm sure there is but then it has to interface with Agfood or one of the farm packages like Herdwatch.
At the moment (with blue cards) there is no financial cost for us whereas if the Dept changes away from the current system to an all electronic scanning system, would it be free? Also the problem of older farmers not having any technological experience - would they have to pay their ag consultants/planners to complete basic tasks like farm to farm movements?

What is the average age of farmers in Ireland? I am sure alot of them can't use a computer

Nekarsulm

whelan2 wrote: »

What is the average age of farmers in Ireland? I am sure alot of them can't use a computer

I'd guess the average age of fulltime farmers must be north of fifty five.
(Seventy if you look around the local mart, some days!)

whelan2

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I'd guess the average age of fulltime farmers must be north of fifty five.
(Seventy if you look around the local mart, some days!)

Even basic mobile phones are hard for some to fathom

The part time boy

I agree with ye all that there a lot of farmers who have no interest in ag food or anything online unless it's the clothes and it starting to rain .

My point was and still is I don't see getting rid of the passports will forse farmers on line.

They can still fill in the blue book using mart factory or private sales receipts.

They can still reg calves by filling in the white card and filling it into blue book before posting it off