Dublin routes news and general chat

JCX BXC

L1011 wrote: »

Slots to LGW were a problem - with MON gone and the BHD slots returning to IAG there should be availability now.

With Monarch slots available now too there could be some scope for expansion there.

trellheim

removed cranky post.

I really don't know why SEA got a nod in front of better business traffic/frequency to EU/UK , London in particular. business is there - look at Flybe trying from Southend , look at the prices BA charge into LCY

Tenger

trellheim wrote: »

.......
I really don't know why SEA got a nod in front of better business traffic/frequency to EU/UK , London in particular. business is there - look at Flybe trying from Southend , look at the prices BA charge into LCY

Perhaps profit margins are better on DUB-SEA than expanding into the more competitive shorthaul market?
BA charge a lot into LCY as it’s a duopoly and that particular market can take the higher fares. A monopoly on DUB-SEA means EI can charge a premium on the direct route.

JCX BXC

Aer Lingus have been very disappointing in regards to shorthaul growth, TA seems to be the only interest.

Van.Bosch

JCX BXC wrote: »

Aer Lingus have been very disappointing in regards to shorthaul growth, TA seems to be the only interest.

In reality they can’t compete with Ryanair on secondary routes with low demand. Main routes like FRA MAD BRU PAR BER LIS are not an issue but if they expand to places like EIN OPO etc. The demand isn’t there and lowest cost wins. Their plan is to maintain existing business and expand TA, fed by their SH and Ryanairs

JCX BXC

Van.Bosch wrote: »

In reality they can’t compete with Ryanair on secondary routes with low demand. Main routes like FRA MAD BRU PAR BER LIS are not an issue but if they expand to places like EIN OPO etc. The demand isn’t there and lowest cost wins. Their plan is to maintain existing business and expand TA, fed by their SH and Ryanairs

The question should be why can't they compete, they have arguably a better brand image as of late (following Ryanair's cancellation controversy) and a very similar product. Should they be able to compete, if not, why not?

jamo2oo9

JCX BXC wrote: »

The question should be why can't they compete, they have arguably a better brand image as of late (following Ryanair's cancellation controversy) and a very similar product. Should they be able to compete, if not, why not?

Those are short-term problems and by this time next year, they'll have forgotten about it. Not really a viable idea to bet on to gain filled seats on low demand routes. EI could compete with them but Ryanair will drop their ticket prices to cents on the euro and try to squeeze out their competition which is what they've done to pretty much everyone they can.

Travellers nowadays aren't really concerned about the product they use but more of the price of the product they use as long as it takes them from A to B.

trellheim

Meh

FR and EI compete happily on several routes , that argument is bunkum ( Birmingham, Amsterdam , Edinburgh, Manchester, Madrid, etc etc etc )

and they're filled planes on both carriers.



My argument is from personal view is LGW and London in general needs more frequency .

JCX BXC

My point on product is that both airlines have identical, low cost products, where you pay for all extras. Why can't Aer Lingus compete? Especially when many other airlines manage to compete with Ryanair.

circular flexing

Interestingly enough I know a few people who fly to SEA on a regular basis on business (they work for Amazon). The new route is not that interesting to them because Aer Lingus doesn't offer premium economy and they are not part of One World (they would regularly get to bronze/silver)

Locker10a

JCX BXC wrote: »

My point on product is that both airlines have identical, low cost products, where you pay for all extras. Why can't Aer Lingus compete? Especially when many other airlines manage to compete with Ryanair.

I suppose EI don’t have anywhere near the same scale of operation FR do. FR can easily afford to keep some of their hundreds of planes on lower yielding or even loss leading routes, as for them it’s still a growth of market share. And indeed they build themselves markets. EI don’t have the same scale operation that affords them to do this on short haul. They have to be smart with their decisions and do what they know make them money.

trellheim

suppose EI don’t have anywhere near the same scale of operation FR do. FR can easily afford to keep some of their hundreds of planes on lower yielding or even loss leading routes, as for them it’s still a growth of market share. And indeed they build themselves markets. EI don’t have the same scale operation that affords them to do this on short haul. They have to be smart with their decisions and do what they know make them money.

Again....the business is there to be taken up in my view

A Pendolino train leaves Manchester every 20 mins to London all day long . Yes thats Rail and Yes thats Manchester. A second thing to think about is the nature of that type of frequency .... would it revitalize a stale ticketing market personally I'd just like a flat oneway turn up 100 quid fare or a 4 weeks in advance 50 quid fare you'd clean up

drdeadlift

circular flexing wrote: »

Interestingly enough I know a few people who fly to SEA on a regular basis on business (they work for Amazon). The new route is not that interesting to them because Aer Lingus doesn't offer premium economy and they are not part of One World (they would regularly get to bronze/silver)

I would have though the direct route would have been more appealing than a "premium" economy requirement,
If a person doesn't see economy fit for purpose wouldn't business class be within their reach.

trellheim

If you can get premium economy funded by the job its a nobrainer for comfort and mileage.

Noxegon

Up to a certain distance a direct route is indeed preferable. However, once you go beyond four or five hours the standard of service becomes far more important, especially when an overnight is involved. 
I'm currently sitting in an economy class seat roughly three hours out of Dublin and I'm profoundly uncomfortable. If there were a sensibly priced premium economy option for my regular Singapore trips then you can bet that I'd use it. Unfortunately there isn't – everything better than economy on one of the ME3 is at least twice what I generally pay.

HTCOne

Noxegon wrote: »

Up to a certain distance a direct route is indeed preferable. However, once you go beyond four or five hours the standard of service becomes far more important, especially when an overnight is involved. 
I'm currently sitting in an economy class seat roughly three hours out of Dublin and I'm profoundly uncomfortable. If there were a sensibly priced premium economy option for my regular Singapore trips then you can bet that I'd use it. Unfortunately there isn't – everything better than economy on one of the ME3 is at least twice what I generally pay.

On the EK slaveship are we?

Locker10a

trellheim wrote: »

suppose EI don’t have anywhere near the same scale of operation FR do. FR can easily afford to keep some of their hundreds of planes on lower yielding or even loss leading routes, as for them it’s still a growth of market share. And indeed they build themselves markets. EI don’t have the same scale operation that affords them to do this on short haul. They have to be smart with their decisions and do what they know make them money.

Again....the business is there to be taken up in my view

A Pendolino train leaves Manchester every 20 mins to London all day long .   Yes thats Rail and Yes thats Manchester.   A second thing to think about is the nature of that type of frequency .... would it revitalize a stale ticketing market   personally I'd just like a flat oneway  turn up 100 quid fare or a 4 weeks in advance 50 quid fare you'd clean up

While I agree and would also appreciate what your suggesting as I myself would find it very beneficial, I don't think this type of ticketing your suggesting for Dublin-London works from an airline(business) point of view. 
It has been tried in the past :- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Air_Lines_Shuttle
Frankly if this was workable one of the airlines would already be doing it. They probably know from years of research that they sell more tickets by offering low non-refundable, non-changeable fares, weeks in advance and very high last minute fares. For example tonight aer lingus have tickets from London to Dublin are between £191 and £300, one way! They know someone will buy these(I have family members that regularly turn up to the airport and buy their ticket at the desk, on company expenses of course) . The current ticketing process allows airlines to respond to demand and adjust prices in response to that, a flat rate fare would mean they loose that control.

Noxegon

HTCOne wrote: »

On the EK slaveship are we?

Not sure why you'd call it that. The service is better than Aer Lingus in all respects except the seat width, and I try to make sure my onward flights are on the A380 which is considerably more comfortable than the 777...

Locker10a

Noxegon wrote: »

HTCOne wrote: »

On the EK slaveship are we?

Not sure why you'd call it that. The service is better than Aer Lingus in all respects except the seat width, and I try to make sure my onward flights are on the A380 which is considerably more comfortable than the 777...

I took the comment to refer not to EK itself but the passengers onboard the flight and the purpose of their travel...

HTCOne

Locker10a wrote: »

I took the comment to refer not to EK itself but the passengers onboard the flight and the purpose of their travel...

I was referring to the 10 abreast seating, wouldn’t want to risk a ban by making a socio-economic dig like that! I found Y on the 777 absolute torture due to the seat, but yeah the difference in both Y and J between the 380 and 777 is staggering. Economy in the 380 is like premium economy on other carriers.

Anyway you’ll have PE on CX next year if that’s what you’re after.

Noxegon

HTCOne wrote: »

Anyway you’ll have PE on CX next year if that’s what you’re after.

Thanks but no thanks – that's around another four hours flying time over the middle east.

Seems like just about airlines have gone 10-across in their 777s now. And yeah, it sucks.

circular flexing

drdeadlift wrote: »

I would have though the direct route would have been more appealing than a "premium" economy requirement,
If a person doesn't see economy fit for purpose wouldn't business class be within their reach.

BA Premium Economy is a good product and can usually be got for a 200 euro or so upgrade from Economy. From my time at Amazon, they only pay for economy unless you are Director or above (it may have changed) so 200 euro is an acceptable cost to most of the people I know. 3 return PE flights to SEA from DUB gets you 630 tier points which is enough for One World Silver. From what I understand, AL business is at least a 300 euro upgrade using their bidding system. So the BA product looks better and has potential for more rewards.

haro124

united putting their domestic 777s to Dublin from the summer

Tenger

haro124 wrote: »

united putting their domestic 777s to Dublin from the summer

How does that change the onboard product.

IQO

Tenger wrote: »

How does that change the onboard product.

No seatback screens, 3-4-3 economy seating, 364 seats on each aircraft, nearly 100 more than the airline has on many of its three-class 777s.

Tenger

IQO wrote: »

No seatback screens, 3-4-3 economy seating, 364 seats on each aircraft, nearly 100 more than the airline has on many of its three-class 777s.

Jesus, quite the downgrade. One wonders is this due to needing the 3 class airframe elsewhere or needing the extra Y class capacity on the route?
Or perhaps an overall downgrading of the route to a low fares setup?

California Dreamer

A real shame for United if this indeed goes ahead. Continental came into the market at the right time with the 757 on the thinner routes and was under the impression that it had good results and brand loyalty over the years. This decision is a kick to those loyal customers.

JCX BXC

All loyalties on TA services seem to be gone with United.

I notice that delta are using a domestic 757 on the Shannon route next summer, will this be a recurring theme?

john boye

They're doing the same on their EWR-BCN/MAD routes. TATL really does seem to be becoming a race to the bottom on some routes.

Irish Steve

I suspect that the "domestic" configuration on the TA services is also a response to the presence of Norwegian on the TA routes, using narrow body aircraft.

The other aspect is that the flight lengths from the East Coast are only marginally longer than some of the domestic routes, and shorter than some, 5 hours, or 6 hours is what it is, and the fact that it's over water or over land is not relevant to the aircraft, it's very much down to the expectation of the passengers, and increasingly, those same passengers have clearly demonstrated that their most pressing imperative is price, and the quality of the service, or the "extras", or the legroom, or the IFE, they are all secondary in consideration.