[B] Unequal pay - What to do? [/B]

duffman13 · 13-06-2017 2:55pm #1

A friend of mine works in a relatively large organisation. There are about 16 people on her team and they are all paid the same. Recently a new guy was hired on to her team who she has now realised gets paid more than the rest of the team (5k a year)

This came to light recently when members of her team received productivity awards (recognition) and this new person didnt. He took out his payslip and said "sure I don't really care" and left it where it could obviously be seen. The new person is doing the exact same job as them and is nowhere near as productive as the rest of the team. She has raised it with her line manager who said he can't discuss other people's wages, which is fair enough, however she wants to persue it further.

Are there any options available or is it a suck it up and move on scenario?

ibarelycare · 13-06-2017 3:05pm

I presume they're in the private sector, so there's nothing to pursue. There's nothing in the law that states people should be paid the same amount to do the same job.

What other people earn is none of her business. If she wants to be paid more then she should discuss her OWN salary with her managers. She should not bring up her coworker's salary or his productivity as part of this.

13-06-2017 3:07pm

Just to be clear, this was raised as a moan about someone else's salary as the starting point?

Wow, way not to go about something.

13-06-2017 3:09pm

How does she know what the other 14 are being paid?

Kimbot · 13-06-2017 3:14pm

OP it would be very hard for 16 staff all to be on the same pay unless they all started at the exact same time and negotiated the exact same raises etc.

pilly · 13-06-2017 3:47pm

Absolutely nothing you can do about it and it's a very bad idea to use someone else's salary as an argument.

Only argument should be what are your skills worth.

duffman13 · 13-06-2017 3:50pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

OP it would be very hard for 16 staff all to be on the same pay unless they all started at the exact same time and negotiated the exact same raises etc.

Cheers for all the replies. About half the team started at the same time with people being brought in over the years. They all have the same contract and have a definitive salary for the job role across the board. Everyone knows what each other gets paid because it's been discussed among themselves and with there union.They have been given raises over the years and everyone has got the same raises, they have all been union negotiated.

To the other poster, It is private sector.

duffman13 · 13-06-2017 3:55pm

pilly wrote: »

Absolutely nothing you can do about it and it's a very bad idea to use someone else's salary as an argument.

Only argument should be what are your skills worth.

If it appears i suggested that then I came across wrong, from a legal stand point I was more curious to see where she stood which is obviously nowhere. She's going to have a discussion with her line manager about a salary review and see what happens.

TallGlass · 13-06-2017 3:59pm

duffman13 wrote: »

Cheers for all the replies. About half the team started at the same time with people being brought in over the years. They all have the same contract and have a definitive salary for the job role across the board. Everyone knows what each other gets paid because it's been discussed among themselves and with there union.They have been given raises over the years and everyone has got the same raises, they have all been union negotiated.

To the other poster, It is private sector.

Unless like this guy who showed it in black and white, word of mouth is nothing to go on. People will just say they get the same as others just to down play and avoid situations like this. If the guy who whipped out the payslip had any cop on he would have kept the mouth shut.

There's nothing you can do. Look at market rates for the role and workload and try fight your own corner, you'll lose points in the fight if you bring other workers into it. Otherwise if you don't like it get another job that pays what you expect. Sorry about the harshness of it but it is what it is.

pilly · 13-06-2017 4:00pm

duffman13 wrote: »

If it appears i suggested that then I came across wrong, from a legal stand point I was more curious to see where she stood which is obviously nowhere. She's going to have a discussion with her line manager about a salary review and see what happens.

Okay, that's good. Just tell her that no matter what she should not bring up what so and so is on. It loses the argument straight away.

Any bargaining for a rise should come from what are my skills worth here and outside here. In other words look up similar jobs outside the organisation.

duffman13 · 13-06-2017 4:06pm

TallGlass wrote: »

Unless like this guy who showed it in black and white, word of mouth is nothing to go on. People will just say they get the same as others just to down play and avoid situations like this. If the guy who whipped out the payslip had any cop on he would have kept the mouth shut.

There's nothing you can do. Look at market rates for the role and workload and try fight your own corner, you'll lose points in the fight if you bring other workers into it. Otherwise if you don't like it get another job that pays what you expect. Sorry about the harshness of it but it is what it is.

Cheers, I think the arrogance of what he did is what pissed her off more, I'm in a role were everybody is on different money but nobody ever discloses it as it just causes issues within the business.

Gazzmonkey · 13-06-2017 4:09pm

Move on I'm afraid...

We have new folk starting all the time going into the same departments but with different salaries, some are more experienced than others, some are in the company longer than others, some have more qualifications than others, some are junior & some are senior in terms of skills.

To have all folk in the same team been given the same salary is crazy talk.

TheAnalyst_ · 13-06-2017 4:10pm

Go to communist Russia if you want equal pay. His pay was agreed between the employer and himself when he was hired. Nothing to do with anyone else.

Getting worked up over a pittance as well. It's probably an extra 2500 per year.

ibarelycare · 13-06-2017 4:13pm

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Go to communist Russia if you want equal pay. His pay was agreed between the employer and himself when he was hired. Nothing to do with anyone else.

Getting worked up over a pittance as well. It's probably an extra 2500 per year.

More than €200 extra in your pocket a month isn't pittance to most people.

ForestFire · 13-06-2017 5:10pm

duffman13 wrote: »

Cheers, I think the arrogance of what he did is what pissed her off more, I'm in a role were everybody is on different money but nobody ever discloses it as it just causes issues within the business.

How did he learn that all the rest of the staff received a productivity Bonus?
Were they all discussing this together at the time and in front of him?

So he saw everyone boasting about there rise so he showed he salary and he is the only one arrogant??

mockingjay · 13-06-2017 5:17pm

This post reminds me of when I was a young naive person working in London, a guy befriended me early on and I was glad of the help, however, it turns out he was sussing my salary and got it out of me in a roundabout way - he went straight to HR and demanded more money - I got called in and received a verbal warning for discussing it with him - I was devastated, kept the job but hated him, and as I made new friends I warned them all.

However, the question your friend needs to ask is - is it worth the hassle, if he is called into the boss the office might become hostile, and some of that will be directed towards her. He may have been headhunted, may have more qualifications, more experience or more importantly he may have family connections - I just don't think it's worth the hassle, if she feels she is worth more money she needs to bring the "I" question to her boss rather than telling tales on someone else, this will make her look petty, the boss agreed his salary and now she is challenging the bosses decision! He must have sold himself well - so she needs to take a leaf out of his book, he sounds arrogant indeed, but he's not there as wallpaper.

ForestFire · 13-06-2017 5:22pm

ibarelycare wrote: »

More than €200 extra in your pocket a month isn't pittance to most people.

That's before tax which will never see that your pocket:)

Around €100 euro if on the top rate of tax.

noel100 · 13-06-2017 5:22pm

The day you are offered a position is best time to negotiate salary. Never take first offer and always aim at the highest amount you can possible achieve. I had same with a company i worked with. People didn't have skills to achieve higher salaries at begining but nearly all of them have left for higher paying jobs. Companies seem to not like to renegotiate salaries but prefer to rehire and train new staff.

myshirt · 13-06-2017 5:26pm

ForestFire wrote: »

That's before tax which will never see that your pocket:)

Around €100 euro if on the top rate of tax.

It's not. It's 5k before tax, 2.5 after. So 200 a month. According to the prophecy.

Op, if you came to me with that logic I'd be exploring reducing your pay if you were on anything above minimum wage. Minimum wage or low skilled I'd forgive you, but anything above that and you'd have to be pegged back to a salary suiting.

ForestFire · 13-06-2017 5:29pm

myshirt wrote: »

It's not. It's 5k before tax, 2.5 after. So 200 a month. According to the prophecy.

Sorry missed that point, So from that I think we can all tell they are on the upper tax band, which puts them over 40K for single person and 60k for partners with only one income.

myshirt · 13-06-2017 5:34pm

ForestFire wrote: »

Sorry missed that point, So from that I think we can all tell they are on the upper tax band, which puts them over 40K for single person and 60k for partners with only one income.

Ballpark 50% for anything incremental, yeah.

On second point, it is something like 33k for single, 40k for married, and 60k for married with two incomes, before you hit top bracket.

ibarelycare · 13-06-2017 6:24pm

mockingjay wrote: »

This post reminds me of when I was a young naive person working in London, a guy befriended me early on and I was glad of the help, however, it turns out he was sussing my salary and got it out of me in a roundabout way - he went straight to HR and demanded more money - I got called in and received a verbal warning for discussing it with him - I was devastated, kept the job but hated him, and as I made new friends I warned them all.

However, the question your friend needs to ask is - is it worth the hassle, if he is called into the boss the office might become hostile, and some of that will be directed towards her. He may have been headhunted, may have more qualifications, more experience or more importantly he may have family connections - I just don't think it's worth the hassle, if she feels she is worth more money she needs to bring the "I" question to her boss rather than telling tales on someone else, this will make her look petty, the boss agreed his salary and now she is challenging the bosses decision! He must have sold himself well - so she needs to take a leaf out of his book, he sounds arrogant indeed, but he's not there as wallpaper.

Why would he get in trouble? An employer can't forbid employees from discussing their salaries with each other.

pilly · 13-06-2017 7:50pm

ibarelycare wrote:

Why would he get in trouble? An employer can't forbid employees from discussing their salaries with each other.

It can actually be in some contracts. I've seen it.

Stheno · 13-06-2017 7:51pm

pilly wrote: »

It can actually be in some contracts. I've seen it.

Me too

ForestFire · 13-06-2017 8:01pm

Stheno wrote: »

Me too

I've seen it too in previous companies, but it must be a bit of a grey area.

I mean your allowed tell you partner? Kids? Friends, bank for mortgage etc.

What if your work college is just a good friend?
What if you partner discusses it with your work colleagues partner?

How much can they actually stop you doing this?

duffman13 · 13-06-2017 9:48pm

ForestFire wrote: »

How did he learn that all the rest of the staff received a productivity Bonus?
Were they all discussing this together at the time and in front of him?

So he saw everyone boasting about there rise so he showed he salary and he is the only one arrogant??

It was recognition awards for end of year, all top performers got it, it was announced in the office on a Friday afternoon. Nobody was bragging about it.

duffman13 · 13-06-2017 9:54pm

ForestFire wrote: »

Sorry missed that point, So from that I think we can all tell they are on the upper tax band, which puts them over 40K for single person and 60k for partners with only one income.

They actually aren't on the upper tax bracket. Its a second level position, all of the team are on 29k and this new guy is on 34. Cheers for all the replies

ForestFire · 13-06-2017 10:14pm

duffman13 wrote: »

It was recognition awards for end of year, all top performers got it, it was announced in the office on a Friday afternoon. Nobody was bragging about it.

Did they announce the pay rise figure and their new wage with the award?

How did he know when he put his wage slip down it would be more than others?

Everybody seems to know what everyone is on by the sounds of it, and nobody had to look at his slip even if he left it out.

But as others have said there is not much can be done except make your own case about what you bring to the company and what you think you are worth, without referring to others

duffman13 · 13-06-2017 10:30pm

ForestFire wrote: »

Did they announce the pay rise figure and their new wage with the award?

How did he know when he put his wage slip down it would be more than others?

Everybody seems to know what everyone is on by the sounds of it, and nobody had to look at his slip even if he left it out.

But as others have said there is not much can be done except make your own case about what you bring to the company and what you think you are worth, without referring to others

No the awards are only minor, done quarterly within the office. Everybody knows what everyone is on because they've worked together a long time and the business have set salarys for set positions. He only started 3 months ago and no one knew his salary till he took his payslip out.

As was said earlier, I know nothing can be done thanks to the replies, she's not a boards user so said I'd ask the question. Thanks for the replies

Stheno · 13-06-2017 10:30pm

ForestFire wrote: »

I've seen it too in previous companies, but it must be a bit of a grey area.

I mean your allowed tell you partner? Kids? Friends, bank for mortgage etc.

What if your work college is just a good friend?
What if you partner discusses it with your work colleagues partner?

How much can they actually stop you doing this?

If you were discovered discussing it in companies I work in who didn't allow it it was gross misconduct and subject to instant dismissed once proven

ibarelycare · 14-06-2017 6:53am

pilly wrote: »

It can actually be in some contracts. I've seen it.

It's not enforceable.

davo10 · 14-06-2017 7:46am

ibarelycare wrote: »

It's not enforceable.

What makes you think this?

The employer cannot stop employees from discussing payrates, but what is to stop them acting on it once they are informed? If it's in the contract of employment and is clearly stated.

slavetothegrind · 14-06-2017 9:22pm

probably because a company contract cannot trump state law?

davo10 · 14-06-2017 9:25pm

slavetothegrind wrote: »

probably because a company contract cannot trump state law?

Which law would that be?

slavetothegrind · 18-06-2017 9:44pm

i don't know hence the question mark. is it really possible to prevent someone disclosing their salary to someone else?

ibarelycare · 18-06-2017 9:50pm

slavetothegrind wrote: »

i don't know hence the question mark. is it really possible to prevent someone disclosing their salary to someone else?

In the UK they brought a law in this year banning "salary secrecy" clauses...it's a human rights law. I thought this was the case in Ireland too but apparently not (so I stand corrected). There's nothing to stop an employer putting such a clause in a contract. I can't imagine anything further than a warning to an employee for a breach would be upheld.

[B] Unequal pay - What to do? [/B]

Comments