Apprenticeship wages

mickward

Hi guys,

can you help me out, the nephew is in phase 4 or 5 of his apprenticeship as a diesel mechanic.

Now how is wages set for this?
Solas say there is no set wage, and his company he works for pay quite low.

can someone who knows the score here please help out with how this is policed as there has to be some legislation to ensure he is not been taken advantage off.

Also, it may just be me but i contacted the local citizens advice, they were of no help what soever, the lady had no clue about what i was talking about.

I just want to ensure the lad is not taken advantage off as he is a good lad with no one to help him along.

Victor

Depending on how much work experience he has, he should be entitled to minimum wage, which has different levels, depending on age, experience and training status.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/pay_inc_min_wage.html#l62fd2

There may also be a registered employment agreement, although I'm not seeing one here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/industrial_relations_and_trade_unions/employment_regulation_orders_and_registered_employment_agreements.html

myshirt

I'd always say there is a time to learn, and a time to earn. He needs to bite down hard and grin and bear it. He will get on better once the experience develops. If you start arguing about a couple of quid here and there, it might be the most expensive couple of quid you ever argued about when you find yourself out on your ear and a dent put in your future earning potential.

You have to box smart here. Bite down and grin and bear it.

Borderfox

When I served my time the wages were extremely low but I was being trained and they went up when I finished

Berberis

When I served my time staring 1980
1st yr rate were £30 a week.
2nd yr rates £55,
3rd yr rates around £75 or £80
Can't remember what 4th yr rates were ,
but do remember I was working as a nipper for the yr before my 1st year t and my wage was £55 a week plus tips from the men on the site, so it was a big drop to go to £30 a week for my apprenticeship.

Had to give £15 a week housekeeping to me Da, I smoked and liked a drink and chipper, soI used to have to save up to go out the odd weekend and cycled to work with me tool bag on me back.

subpar

As a norm final year wage rate should be 80% of the fully qualified rate

chrismon

How much is he being paid?
Can't tell you if he's being taken advantage of if we don't know the rate.

Berberis

subpar wrote: »

As a norm final year wage rate should be 80% of the fully qualified rate

I think there are 7 phases to appreticeships nowdays over the 4 years

gifted

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice

Have a read of that, might give you some help

MouseTail

Afaik the wage rate is set between employer/employee or rather master/apprentice, the average is listed here, http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/craft/Pages/ApprenticeInfo.aspx

He still has a way to go, and exams to pass in phase 6. He will be worth a bit more in phase 7, his final year.

Is he a fair bit below the average? I'd advise him to get through phase 6 anyway before rocking any boats, certainly if he is getting good training on the job.

JC01

I served my time a couple of years back, there is no regulator or body to tell employers what to pay at different phases, in his off-the-job phases there is a set rate depending on time served but really it's between the employer and employee to hammer out something both parties think is fair. A lot of it comes down to how hard he's willing to push.

It's worth mentioning I was better payed as a final year apprentice than 5 out of the 7 fully qualified lads, some with decades of experience, your nephew needs to go in and push a hard bargain now as he always will. Rates are fairly crap in general in mechanics so he needs to get used to fighting his corner for decent pay.

As a bare bones minimum I'd expect at the very very least 12.50 an hour in third year and 15.00 an hour in fourth year. Any less than that and he really needs to question why he's at it. Diesel mechanics is a complex, physically-torturous job so half-decent pay is a must.

All this only applies to private garages mind, CIE etc have pay scales that they very rarely break.

mickward

Thanks Guys for all the help and advice. he is quite away under the minimum pay, and i do agree it is what it is and he needs to get some qualifications under his belt so to speak before he starts arguing the toss for a raise in pay.

He is a good lad and as i said i wanted to just see what thoughts were on pay in apprenticeships.

Anyway when is money does go up maybe he will appreciate it more then when hes felt the pain on living on low wages.

Thanks all.

nutjobb

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/craft/Pages/ApprenticeInfo.aspx This will give you how much he will be paid off the job.
I'm just qualified and how my boss paid was by going off the list, so once you passed your exams your rate goes up.

Others I know their rate increased every year regardless of phase they were in.

As said above though it is up to employer, I got a few raises from my boss by just asking him so tell him not to be shy in asking. Mechanics is the worst wage I think so keep that in mind and if he's on par with he's phase rate above he's not doing too bad.

Keep your eye on the prize is the advice I'd give to anyone serving their time!

Dtp1979

JC01 wrote: »

I served my time a couple of years back, there is no regulator or body to tell employers what to pay at different phases, in his off-the-job phases there is a set rate depending on time served but really it's between the employer and employee to hammer out something both parties think is fair. A lot of it comes down to how hard he's willing to push.

It's worth mentioning I was better payed as a final year apprentice than 5 out of the 7 fully qualified lads, some with decades of experience, your nephew needs to go in and push a hard bargain now as he always will. Rates are fairly crap in general in mechanics so he needs to get used to fighting his corner for decent pay.

As a bare bones minimum I'd expect at the very very least 12.50 an hour in third year and 15.00 an hour in fourth year. Any less than that and he really needs to question why he's at it. Diesel mechanics is a complex, physically-torturous job so half-decent pay is a must.

All this only applies to private garages mind, CIE etc have pay scales that they very rarely break.

500 euro for a 3rd year? lol what are you smoking mate? An apprentice is a student like it or not. They cost you money year one, maybe break even year 2 and start making money the last 2 years. You're as high as a kite if you think a 3rd year should be on 500.
They're there to learn a trade. Most other students are charged thousands in collage fees and expenses before they get their qualification, let alone get paid to learn.

gifted

Apprentices rates of pay here....these apply to CIF rates

Gringo180

Dtp1979 wrote: »

500 euro for a 3rd year? lol what are you smoking mate? An apprentice is a student like it or not. They cost you money year one, maybe break even year 2 and start making money the last 2 years. You're as high as a kite if you think a 3rd year should be on 500.
They're there to learn a trade. Most other students are charged thousands in collage fees and expenses before they get their qualification, let alone get paid to learn.

Your having a laugh. Comparing an appentice to a student is laughable :pac: since when do students make money for there colleges?

Dtp1979

Gringo180 wrote: »

Your having a laugh. Comparing an appentice to a student is laughable :pac: since when do students make money for there colleges?

They're still learning a trade. 500 euro a week for a 3rd year is crazy money and I guarantee no apprentice would be earning that on the job.

Victor

Gringo180 wrote: »

Your having a laugh. Comparing an appentice to a student is laughable :pac: since when do students make money for there colleges?

What measure do you think governments or other funders use when they give colleges money? No students, no money.

2011

Dtp1979 wrote: »

500 euro a week for a 3rd year is crazy money and I guarantee no apprentice would be earning that on the job.

I disagree. Have a look at the rates on post #15 for a 3rd year. Based on 39 hours alone the weekly wage is over €500. I employed an apprentice myself a number of years ago, I can't recall the rates but I know he wasn't cheap as a 3rd year.

When I was a 1st year apprentice electrician in 1990 our hourly rate was a percentage of a qualified electricians. It went from 30 to 45 to 60 to 85% or something along those lines. We also got tool money, travel allowance, meal money and a minimum of 10 hours travel time pay per week. This was long before the REA's were defeated in court.

Dtp1979

2011 wrote: »

I disagree. Have a look at the rates on post #15 for a 3rd year. Based on 39 hours alone the weekly wage is over €500. I employed an apprentice myself a number of years ago, I can't recall the rates but I know he wasn't cheap as a 3rd year.

When I was a 1st year apprentice electrician in 1990 our hourly rate was a percentage of a qualified electricians. It went from 30 to 45 to 60 to 85% or something along those lines. We also got tool money, travel allowance, meal money and a minimum of 10 hours travel time pay per week. This was long before the REA's were defeated in court.

That maybe the case for massive industrial companies in Dublin. I'd be shocked if an apprentice was earning 500 on phase 5 on the job working for a small company or sole trader anywhere

Wynner05

Any company I worked for during my apprenticeship(4 different contractors) paid the same rates as fas(solas) as they are set out in agreement with unions, solas and the contractors. There was no wiggle room that was the rate. It was quite a good rate too considering your technically studying and working, If he is getting paid below these rates there is questions that need to be asked and solas can be a great help.

Dtp1979

Wynner05 wrote: »

Any company I worked for during my apprenticeship(4 different contractors) paid the same rates as fas(solas) as they are set out in agreement with unions, solas and the contractors. There was no wiggle room that was the rate. It was quite a good rate too considering your technically studying and working, If he is getting paid below these rates there is questions that need to be asked and solas can be a great help.

Big industrial company?

Wynner05

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Big industrial company?

2 sole traders, 1 Large Industrial contractor and 1 facilities Management company.

Dtp1979

Down where I am you would barely have qualified guys on 550 let alone 3rd year apprentices. It's always been much higher for bigger industrial places, generally in Dublin.

Wynner05

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Down where I am you would barely have qualified guys on 550 let alone 3rd year apprentices. It's always been much higher for bigger industrial places, generally in Dublin.

I found that generally apprentices' where getting the correct rate they are entitled to as Fas(Solas) can be quite difficult, even when fully qualified tradesmen weren't getting paid full rates. Solas actually banned 1 company I was with from employing apprentices' for 2 years as they kept placing them on temporary lay off.

Dtp1979

Wynner05 wrote: »

I found that generally apprentices' where getting the correct rate they are entitled to as Fas(Solas) can be quite difficult, even when fully qualified tradesmen weren't getting paid full rates. Solas actually banned 1 company I was with from employing apprentices' for 2 years as they kept placing them on temporary lay off.

FAS will always pay top dollar. Not in smaller companies though

Outkast_IRE

I did my apprenticeship in plumbing in Cork and worked a mix of industrial with big companies & residential with a small 2 man outfit. During all stages i was paid the correct rate as set out by FAS. Alot of the lads i met during my stages in FAS/Solas were also on the correct rate it was only a minority of usually dodgy employers who paid anything other than the correct rate.

Dtp1979

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I did my apprenticeship in plumbing in Cork and worked a mix of industrial with big companies & residential with a small 2 man outfit. During all stages i was paid the correct rate as set out by FAS. Alot of the lads i met during my stages in FAS/Solas were also on the correct rate it was only a minority of usually dodgy employers who paid anything other than the correct rate.

And during all my phases I don't think I met anyone who was paid Fas wages out on the job. Everyone used to love going to collage for the big pay increases

2011

Dtp1979 wrote: »

And during all my phases I don't think I met anyone who was paid Fas wages out on the job. Everyone used to love going to collage for the big pay increases

We all got less when in collage because all of the site allowances were gone. The hourly rated stayed exactly the same but we only got paid a flat 39 hours and no travel time (normally a minimum of 10 hours). I was always paid the rate or above it as an apprentice and as a qualified sparks. It was the same for the other apprentices that I worked with.

Dtp1979

2011 wrote: »

We all got less when in collage because all of the site allowances were gone. The hourly rated stayed exactly the same but we only got paid a flat 39 hours and no travel time (normally a minimum of 10 hours). I was always paid the rate or above it as an apprentice and as a qualified sparks. It was the same for the other apprentices that I worked with.

No site allowances or hourly rate where I was from. Luckily enough I wasn't trained on a housing estate.
Maybe it's different where you're from.

brembo26

Im a 3rd year motor mechanic now €380 a week after taxes.
2nd year I was getting €290.
1st year I was getting €190.

gifted

I asked a 3rd year apprentice plumber today.... €440 after tax for 39 hour week.

Dtp1979

gifted wrote: »

I asked a 3rd year apprentice plumber today.... €440 after tax for 39 hour week.

Small domestic or industrial?

2011

gifted wrote: »

I asked a 3rd year apprentice plumber today.... €440 after tax for 39 hour week.

So over €500 before tax.
Sounds about right to me.

Dtp1979

2011 wrote: »

So over €500 after tax.
Sounds about right to me.

For industrial yea

Outkast_IRE

gifted wrote: »

I asked a 3rd year apprentice plumber today.... €440 after tax for 39 hour week.

Thats about right in line with what i was getting as a 3rd year.

Outkast_IRE

Dtp1979 wrote: »

And during all my phases I don't think I met anyone who was paid Fas wages out on the job. Everyone used to love going to collage for the big pay increases

I can only speak for my own phase, but mostly the only ones who seen a big increase was the country lads who FAS gave a decent top up for the lodge too.
Can i ask what roughly what time period you went through the system during ?

I was in the system 2006 - 2011 took more than 4 years as there was a waiting list to get into FAS & the ITs for block releases.

gifted

What wage structure are the domestic plumbers paying their apprentices?

Outkast_IRE

gifted wrote: »

What wage structure are the domestic plumbers paying their apprentices?

Its the same apprenticeship as industrial - it should be the same rate, but there is more of a chance of paid overtime and travel allowances etc in industrial as the big employers will play by the rules for the most part.

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/craft/Pages/ApprenticeInfo.aspx

Dtp1979

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Its the same apprenticeship as industrial - it should be the same rate, but there is more of a chance of paid overtime and travel allowances etc in industrial as the big employers will play by the rules for the most part.

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/craft/Pages/ApprenticeInfo.aspx

Big employers have massive turnovers profits etc and unions and so on so on. A one man show domestic tradesman simply couldn't afford to pay those rates. It's as simple as that.

Dtp1979

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I can only speak for my own phase, but mostly the only ones who seen a big increase was the country lads who FAS gave a decent top up for the lodge too.
Can i ask what roughly what time period you went through the system during ?

I was in the system 2006 - 2011 took more than 4 years as there was a waiting list to get into FAS & the ITs for block releases.

99-03ish myself. The wage increase was a good bit. That wasn't including any allowances.

gifted

Quote: Outkast_IRE
I can only speak for my own phase, but mostly the only ones who seen a big increase was the country lads who FAS gave a decent top up for the lodge too.
Can i ask what roughly what time period you went through the system during ?

I was in the system 2006 - 2011 took more than 4 years as there was a waiting list to get into FAS & the ITs for block releases.


99-03ish myself. The wage increase was a good bit. That wasn't including any allowances


I've boss white in me shed older than ye...mere pups is all ye are lol lol

dev100

Dtp1979 wrote:

And during all my phases I don't think I met anyone who was paid Fas wages out on the job. Everyone used to love going to collage for the big pay increases

I was one of them poor bastads back in 98 Jas loved going to Fas and college for the extra money !!! Served my time as fitter/turner Back in the day the only ones on super money going to Fas were the building trades. I think at the time they had set unions rates as agreed with the building industry . Nearly sure the sparks were the best paid and it worked down the building trades and then it was the mechanical lads like fitters were mid table and the poorest were the mechanics. I know anyone in my trade working for a small business got mediocre pay compared to anyone working for the multinationals or the likes of the ESB or the sugar factory at the time most of those lads were doing a degree same time as their apprenticeship and job was paying for it .

Outkast_IRE

Just thinking about this and seen the government are starting to push apprenticehips again in a big way.

If they dont work on getting a set wage for each stage of each apprenticeship then i think they are going to struggle. Conditions on most sites are pathetic in this country with the main contractor looking for subbies for everything with no job security etc.

Dtp1979

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Just thinking about this and seen the government are starting to push apprenticehips again in a big way.

If they dont work on getting a set wage for each stage of each apprenticeship then i think they are going to struggle. Conditions on most sites are pathetic in this country with the main contractor looking for subbies for everything with no job security etc.

I see now apprentices are getting charged 1k for phases 4 and 6 as far as I
Can see

Outkast_IRE

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I see now apprentices are getting charged 1k for phases 4 and 6 as far as I
Can see

While i was there we needed to pay a small contribution i think it was in the region of €300-350 which was fair enough. I think the contribution is necessary for some of the students to actually appreciate the opportunity they are being given.

dbagman

Victor wrote:

Depending on how much work experience he has, he should be entitled to minimum wage, which has different levels, depending on age, experience and training status.

Minimum wage does not apply for apprenticeships as technically you're in full time education. How would it be right that a brand new first year apprentice can bring home in the region of 400 a week on min wage and a man qualified years command 100 or 200 more?? (Obvs depending on different trades that figure will differ)

brembo26

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I see now apprentices are getting charged 1k for phases 4 and 6 as far as I
Can see

Yeah that is correct.

Dtp1979

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

While i was there we needed to pay a small contribution i think it was in the region of €300-350 which was fair enough. I think the contribution is necessary for some of the students to actually appreciate the opportunity they are being given.

True yes. Back in my day (god that makes me feel old) there was no fees whatsoever

knipex

mickward wrote: »

Hi guys,

can you help me out, the nephew is in phase 4 or 5 of his apprenticeship as a diesel mechanic.

Now how is wages set for this?
Solas say there is no set wage, and his company he works for pay quite low.

can someone who knows the score here please help out with how this is policed as there has to be some legislation to ensure he is not been taken advantage off.

Also, it may just be me but i contacted the local citizens advice, they were of no help what soever, the lady had no clue about what i was talking about.

I just want to ensure the lad is not taken advantage off as he is a good lad with no one to help him along.

An Apprenticeship is a training course and as such exempt from the minimum wage.

Rates of pay are "suggested" and listed here

http://www.apprenticeship.ie/en/apprentice/craft/Pages/ApprenticeInfo.aspx
The tend to be used a guideline rather than a definitive rate but most employers will pay there or there about's.

however you will find unionised workplaces. particularly the electrical ones the rates tend to be enforced stronger.

There is no specific piece of legislation covering apprentice pay rates..

LegacyUser

I'm currently an apprentice carpenter have ph 6 completed have 9 months time left to serve and take home is 460 had to pay 1000e for ph4 and ph6