Topaz nicked me money the bowsies.

Revolver Ireland

Hi Guys. I'm wondering if anyone can advise about the following situation:
I pulled into a Topaz garage on Thursday evening to fill up the car.
* I used the card machine on the forecourt and prepaid €65.
* It dispensed €20 worth of petrol and stopped.
* I asked them in the shop what was going on, and they said it had only charged €20. I was dripping wet from playing football in a monsson (Did you see that rain!!) so just took the receipt they gave me and just went to go on my way.
* I logged onto my online banking on my phone though, and Topaz had actually taken €65, so I went back to the shop and showed the lady my statement. I thought (naively) that I would be met with, 'Sorry about that, just fill up the other €45 there now' but to my consternation....
* I was told 'Theres nothing i can do sorry'. there was a lightening strike earlier and the power went out and its probably a bug. It SHOULD go back into your bank in 3 - 5 working days. I.E. I don't know what happened, I can see we only gave you €20 worth of petrol, but took €65, but it SHOULD rectify itself.
* I said it wasn't good enough, and that I did not want to leave until I got a refund or the fuel I paid for. The further it gets from the time it happens, the more risk I'm at etc. She said the manager would be in in the morning and she could sort it.
* Went today and the manager was horrid. From the moment I got there she was looking to walk away. 'We can talk here all day, but I still cant help you' It SHOULD resolve itself next week'
* I asked her what I would do, if I couldn't afford to wait. I.E. If I had no money to use to fill my tank while waiting for Topaz to HOPEFULLY resolve the issue (I'm actually going to use a full tank tomorrow). She shrugged her shoulders and sarcastically quipped, 'Have a nice day. I asked her what I'm guilty of to deserve the treatment and attitude I'm getting and said that all I did was pay her shop for petrol, and her shop did not give the petrol, yet I am somehow the unreasonable one??

Anyway, I'm well p1ssed off. Mostly to do with their attitude of indifference at this stage. Can they do this? Basically steal my money and tell me 'Computer says no'?

Paleblood

<SNIP> No need to quote entire OP

There's no excusing their poor attitude but the problem should resolve itself by next week. They can't give you cash back because they'd then have to ensure that you don't also receive the money back in your account next week. It happened to me before. Just stick it out and see what happens but ultimately you'll get your money back.

Kristopherus

Tell them you're going to name & shame on Facebook. That attitude stinks.

Miaireland

You could always contact your card provider and ask them charge. Call back to the shop, ask for the manager and giver her the €20 in one cent coins!

endacl

Miaireland wrote: »

You could always contact your card provider and ask them charge. Call back to the shop, ask for the manager and giver her the €20 in one cent coins!

Which she wouldn't be obliged to accept.

shane b

Could be more to do with your bank than topaz. Something similiar happened me with an EMO prepaid station 3 weeks ago. Pre loaded 80 euro but car only took 52 but the 80 was taken out first. Rang Emo and cos I pre-authorized the card the bank takes the full amount first. It came back in few days later and now just shows as the 52 of fuel i bought.

njs030

It takes a few days for a refund to be processed. If that's already started and they give you the petrol then you haven't paid for it.
Unfortunately it's the banks that have created a situation where refunds take a stupid amount if time.

If you want to complain to their head office about the manager attitude do but you will have to wait the few days for the money.

The_Pretender

Similar thing happened to me in Applegreen a few months back, except the manager there (Rathcoole) couldn't have been more helpful and made sure the issue was sorted. The money will be be credited into your account in a few days, nothing you can do really bar not go to that garage again.

jimmycrackcorm

Revolver Ireland wrote:

Anyway, I'm well p1ssed off. Mostly to do with their attitude of indifference at this stage. Can they do this? Basically steal my money and tell me 'Computer says no'?

Go in, fill 45 in your tank. Then go up to the cashier and just tell them you'll pay it when they refund you the 45 they style from you.

Don't forget to say; Good day my young man, on your way out.

Mongfinder General

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Go in, fill 45 in your tank. Then go up to the cashier and just tell them you'll pay it when they refund you the 45 they style from you.

Don't forget to say; Good day my young man, on your way out.

Took the words right out if my mouth

leonffrench

I work in the payment card industry and I can tell you that what you did on the pump was "pre authorise" 65 euro. If you had got 65 worth of fuel then the transaction would have completed. Because you only got 20 of your 65 pre auth the remaining 45 will be refunded to you..instantly. it is your bank that takes 3 to 5 days to process this refund.

Edit. Its not the garages fault it's the banks fault that you will be waiting on your refund

I was in the US recently and all of the gas pumps had messages on them about this, that the bank might put a hold on for more than what you dispensed but would refund it. Sounds like what happened here, how long it takes for you to get it back depends on the bank.

GritBiscuit

Same thing happened to me. The full amount sat as transaction pending for a few days and then only the amount that I got in fuel was deducted. Bit of a pain because the whole lot is unavailable funds for a while but it all rights itself in the end. I checked with the garage and they pointed out as had been said above, it's actually my bank that held the money not them. The joys of electronic transactions!

dudara

Anytime I've used these systems before, they pre-authorize for a certain amount, but then charged the correct amount once the transaction is completed

Revolver Ireland

Its not the banks fault that Topaz charged me €65 and only gave me €20. Thats a bug in their system. I was simply looking for them to give me the rest of the petrol I paid for. Seems ludicrous that potentially I could have been down to my last few sheckles (Which can happen at the end of the month) and I could have been left with no money and no fuel. Honestly, I don't see that as an acceptable situation and I don't see why Topaz bug is the banks fault. This was not me putting €60 in and my tank filling at €56 or something. This is a bug where I prepaid €65, but the pump stopped arbitrarily at €20, not due to my tank being full. Personally I think Topaz should have simply given me the fuel it charged me for, and accepted my word that I'd give them €45 if it auto-refunded and accepted the risk for their faulty gear. They knew it was a bug with their system, and I think 'just wait it out', even if it comes back, is shoddy. I certainly wont be using those machines again thats for sure. I also wont be using that Topaz due to the awful attitude, but I suppose thats a different matter. I wouldn't mind, but I had a load of grief with Meteor this week too. I think I must have knocked down a black cat or something.....
Anyway, i appreciate the feedback guys. Cheers.

Revolver Ireland

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Go in, fill 45 in your tank. Then go up to the cashier and just tell them you'll pay it when they refund you the 45 they style from you.

Don't forget to say; Good day my young man, on your way out.

I did consider it

miezekatze

There isn't anything they could have done tbf. If they give you another 45 € worth of petrol, they will be short 45 € once the transaction reverses. They also can't refund you for the 'overspend' because the money is just on hold, the garage didn't actually receive it. Technical issues can happen during transactions and they can cause things like this. You will just have to wait a few days. I know it's annoying, but this kind of thing can happen in most payment systems and there isn't really anything that can be done to resolve the issue immediately.

Revolver Ireland

miezekatze wrote: »

There isn't anything they could have done tbf. If they give you another 45 € worth of petrol, they will be short 45 € once the transaction reverses. They also can't refund you for the 'overspend' because the money is just on hold, the garage didn't actually receive it. Technical issues can happen during transactions and they can cause things like this. You will just have to wait a few days. I know it's annoying, but this kind of thing can happen in most payment systems and there isn't really anything that can be done to resolve the issue immediately.

Being that they knew it was a bug in their system, they COULD HAVE, and IMO should have given the €45 worth of fuel they took for and accepted my word that I would give them any money that may be refunded next week. Yes, thats a risk on their part, as I might not come back (For the record I would), but thats a risk they should have taken upon themselves under the circumstances. So its not that 'There is nothing they could have done', its that there was nothing they were WILLING to do. Will they even bother to make sure such a thing doesn't happen again? Sure why would they if its the customer that takes the punishment for their systems failure. Like I said, if money was tighter, this could had huge consequences for me. I don't think it just or right that I am left punished for their systems failure when there was something they could have done, but did not want to as they would deem it too risky. The risk being, that that guy who just bought some petrol in good faith, but that they did not deliver on, might rob THEM. Anyway. Lesson learned. Have to say, its times like these when you truly see that you really are just the little guy. Customer care will probably send me a free Car air freshener (If I'm 'lucky') and call it resolved.

GerardKeating

Revolver Ireland wrote: »

Being that they knew it was a bug in their system, they COULD HAVE, and IMO should have given the €45 worth of fuel they took for and accepted my word that I would give them any money that may be refunded next week. Yes, thats a risk on their part, as I might not come back (For the record I would), but thats a risk they should have taken upon themselves under the circumstances. So its not that 'There is nothing they could have done', its that there was nothing they were WILLING to do. Will they even bother to make sure such a thing doesn't happen again? Sure why would they if its the customer that takes the punishment for their systems failure. Like I said, if money was tighter, this could had huge consequences for me. I don't think it just or right that I am left punished for their systems failure when there was something they could have done, but did not want to.

It is not for definite a "bug" in the Topaz's system, It is more likely bug in your Banks computer system.

As others have mentioned, the Topaz pump first requests a "pre-auth" (in your case 65 euros) and then when the transaction is completed, send the final amount to the Bank.

If the Bank does not match the pre-auth to the completion, then both remain on your account until the "pre-auth" expires.

It tends to always "work" with my AIB debit card...

TOss Sweep

Revolver Ireland wrote: »

Being that they knew it was a bug in their system, they COULD HAVE, and IMO should have given the €45 worth of fuel they took for and accepted my word that I would give them any money that may be refunded next week. Yes, thats a risk on their part, as I might not come back (For the record I would), but thats a risk they should have taken upon themselves under the circumstances. So its not that 'There is nothing they could have done', its that there was nothing they were WILLING to do. Will they even bother to make sure such a thing doesn't happen again? Sure why would they if its the customer that takes the punishment for their systems failure. Like I said, if money was tighter, this could had huge consequences for me. I don't think it just or right that I am left punished for their systems failure when there was something they could have done, but did not want to as they would deem it too risky. The risk being, that that guy who just bought some petrol in good faith, but that they did not deliver on, might rob THEM. Anyway. Lesson learned. Have to say, its times like these when you truly see that you really are just the little guy. Customer care will probably send me a free Car air freshener (If I'm 'lucky') and call it resolved.

What if they give you the 45 and then as others on here are right and it is just a pre-auth and that money falls back on to your account and only the 20 is a full charge are you prepared to bring the 45 back to them that they gave you? That is why they are telling you to wait because they believe it is most likely a pre-auth and that you wont actually be out 45 and them giving you 45 puts you up by 45.

Kiss1037

you really should reword this, it is defamitory, as the fact is, like it or not topaz do not have your money, the bank has ( and has only put a hold on it ) topaz have not got your money , it is not released from the bank to topaz

Revolver Ireland

GerardKeating wrote: »

It is not for definite a "bug" in the Topaz's system, It is more likely bug in your Banks computer system.

As others have mentioned, the Topaz pump first requests a "pre-auth" (in your case 65 euros) and then when the transaction is completed, send the final amount to the Bank.

If the Bank does not match the pre-auth to the completion, then both remain on your account until the "pre-auth" expires.

It tends to always "work" with my AIB debit card...

It had nothing to do with my bank. Topaz took the €65 pre-auth or whatever. I had the cleared funds and like I said, it showed up on my statement. The problem, is that Topaz pump stopped arbitrarily at €20 worth of dispensed fuel. That is Topaz, nothing to do with the bank.

Revolver Ireland

Kiss1037 wrote: »

you really should reword this, it is defamitory, as the fact is, like it or not topaz do not have your money, the bank has ( and has only put a hold on it ) topaz have not got your money , it is not released from the bank to topaz

My contract as a consumer is with Topaz. THEY took, froze, pre auth, whatever you want to call it €65. On my statement it is '€65 - Topaz...'. They however only gave me €20 worth of petrol. So whatever way its spun, Their buggy system froze/took/whatever money from my bank. Due to topaz, nobody else, I got €20 worth of fuel for €65. Ok, if that gets unfrozen/refunded next week (They don't know what caused the bug, so who knows if it will or not tbh), the fact is I am down €45 at least for the weekend, and still need to fill my car.

Revolver Ireland

TOss Sweep wrote: »

What if they give you the 45 and then as others on here are right and it is just a pre-auth and that money falls back on to your account and only the 20 is a full charge are you prepared to bring the 45 back to them that they gave you? That is why they are telling you to wait because they believe it is most likely a pre-auth and that you wont actually be out 45 and them giving you 45 puts you up by 45.

It is easy to have your accounts payable department simply cancel a transaction and then simply charge me for the €20 of fuel they gave me. In the absence of them having the knowledge or interest in trying to resolve the matter, then the risk above is one they should have been willing to take in recognition of the bug in their system. I would certainly not steal their money, but believe they should have taken that risk upon themselves under the circumstances. (Again, there are things they could have done, but they just couldn't have been bothered)

kerryked

Think you were just unlucky that you got caught by a mix of a technical failure in the pre pay pump system and the time it takes the bank to refund the money.

Really I think the problem you have here is with the customet service of the manager, which I agree was not satisfactory. IMO, she sounds like someone lacking the necessary people skills, if she had simply reassured you she would investigate it fully, take your mobile number and ensure its sorted out then I'm sure this would have been agreeable for you.

You say that they should be willing to take a risk and let you away with €45 of, essentially, free fuel. This doesn't really stack up in my eyes because, as others have mentioned once the refund is completed they'll be down 45 worth of fuel.

Graham

Revolver Ireland wrote: »

It is easy to have your accounts payable department simply cancel a transaction

It's a pre-auth the €45 will already be on the way back to your account. It's hardly surprising that Topaz won't entertain refunding it again.

Nermal

Revolver Ireland wrote: »

It is easy to have your accounts payable department simply cancel a transaction and then simply charge me for the €20 of fuel they gave me.

It's not. The have not settled the full EUR65 and won't do so - but that's all they can do. There is no way for them to send a message to the bank telling them to drop the hold on the funds. You can blame the banks for that one. Welcome to the crummy world of shadow holds.

FaganJr

Just pre pay at the till, that way once you got your 20, you could go back in to the shop.
Get your 45 back.
Or pre pay a new transaction for 45.
Pre pay at the pump is direct transaction from the pump to the bank. Shop can't do anything about that, where as the till is under their control!!

jcd5971

endacl wrote:

Which she wouldn't be obliged to accept.

Why it's legal tender.
Even when they got rid of 1c and 2c I'm pretty sure you can still use them.

Miaireland

endacl wrote:

Which she wouldn't be obliged to accept.

Once a debt exists doesn't it change.

Ultimate Seduction

Put the 45 petrol in your car and drive off. If the 45 appears in your account during the week bring it to them

Fred Swanson

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pilly

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Happens all the time. Take it from someone who worked in a garage.

jcd5971

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Worked in a filling station/shop can confirm the guards will take the details and inform the person they "forgot" to pay, whenever they disputed the facts they told us we had to seek legal advice as it was now a civil matter.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

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The gardaí most certainly follow up on drive offs, and do so regularly.

Radical Dawg

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They do - seriously.

goz83

jcd5971 wrote: »

Why it's legal tender.
Even when they got rid of 1c and 2c I'm pretty sure you can still use them.

The receiver is only legally obliged accept a certain number of coins.....I think it's about 50 coins. Legal tender, or not, it's a d1ck of thing to do to some poor sod working minimum wage at a till.

jennyhayes123

That's why i don't use those prepay machines anymore

jcd5971

goz83 wrote: »

The receiver is only legally obliged accept a certain number of coins.....I think it's about 50 coins. Legal tender, or not, it's a d1ck of thing to do to some poor sod working minimum wage at a till.

trust me i wish this is the way it worked out, happened a few times in shops ive been in over the years.

you explain all this to the donkeys and in the end they just plop the bag of unsorted metal on the counter with "its all there".

and if you think gardai are slow to deal with a drive off, imagine

hi officer someone just payed there bill with over the accepted amount of coin.


you are of course correct in what you say, it just dosent stack up in reality is all

jacob2

cash is king

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TheChizler

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Anyway, because of the dispute it's a civil matter. The OP has paid the 45 quid, so he won't have stolen anything.

Incorrect. The OP's bank has put an authorisation hold on the €65, which hasn't left and won't leave their bank account. €20 will actually be debited when the transaction is finalised.

The garage hasn't received any money yet.

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Fred Swanson

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pilly

Fred Swanson wrote:

If that is the case I shall never pay for fuel again.

Yeah, we'll just intend to.

pilly

jennyhayes123 wrote:

That's why i don't use those prepay machines anymore

Don't understand why people do, just laziness.

njs030

pilly wrote: »

Yeah, we'll just intend to.

I wonder if it works for jewellery too!!

dr.fuzzenstein

Revolver Ireland wrote: »

It had nothing to do with my bank. Topaz took the €65 pre-auth or whatever. I had the cleared funds and like I said, it showed up on my statement. The problem, is that Topaz pump stopped arbitrarily at €20 worth of dispensed fuel. That is Topaz, nothing to do with the bank.

You prepaid €65 and got €20. Why and how is irrelevant to the computers.
You have 2 choices here. Either wait a few days for your money or kick up a stink at Topaz and your bank and wait a few weeks for your money while they slowly work through your complaint.
Life is tough, wait a few days.

languagenerd

Most places with a prepay pump have signs up about pre-authorisation. It basically "holds" the amount you put in so the company can be sure it's there at the end of transaction (eg a lot of hotels do it too to be sure the funds are there to cover the first night's stay if the guest doesn't show up). If your tank is too full, the pump runs out or, as in your case, glitches, they only take the amount they actually dispensed and the bank "unfreezes" the rest. The garage never actually got the money - the bank takes 3 or 4 days to clear it.

It's seriously annoying, esp if you really need that money/fuel, but there's really nothing the garage can do. They don't have it to give it back, and you probably implicitly agreed to the preauthorisation by completing the transaction. The banks should really be regulated on this and forced to clear preauths quicker. (Doesn't excuse rudeness from the garage staff, mind).

jennyhayes123

pilly wrote:

Don't understand why people do, just laziness.

It's for conscience not laziness. Few kids in car, makes more sense than taking all kids out and into shop