What if the Internet had been around during the 'Troubles'

RustyNut

Persephone kindness wrote: »

a tragic mistake

Persephone kindness wrote: »

And regarding bloody quite frankly no one should have been encouraging 17 yr olds to go to an interment march when their was rioting at that time on the streets and the British Army and any public figure who did so was selfish and blind.

Is that you Baron Widgery? About the only person on the planet to view the Bogside Massacre as a "tragic mistake" and we'll skip over the victim blaming.

The current view of the British government is that the killings were both "unjustified" and "unjustifiable". It found that all of those shot were unarmed, that none were posing a serious threat, that no bombs were thrown, and that soldiers "knowingly put forward false accounts" to justify their firing.

Persephone kindness

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Subtle victim blaming.

Classy.

Apologies.

Persephone kindness

RustyNut wrote: »

Is that you Baron Widgery? About the only person on the planet to view the Bogside Massacre as a "tragic mistake" and we'll skip over the victim blaming.

The current view of the British government is that the killings were both "unjustified" and "unjustifiable". It found that all of those shot were unarmed, that none were posing a serious threat, that no bombs were thrown, and that soldiers "knowingly put forward false accounts" to justify their firing.

Again apologies.

You are correct it's good to see the British Army and Govt take responsibility for their actions. I apologize.

RustyNut

Deleted User wrote: »

They didn't make many mistakes. The very cold execution of Protestants at Kimgsmill was calculated and sectarian, they divided the bus by religion and left the one Catholic go with instructions to run and not look back while they executed civilian after civilian. The incendiary device at La Mon was to ensure victims burned to death.

Yea murderers and terrorist's on both sides. Both murdered and both spread terror.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They didn't make many mistakes. The very cold execution of Protestants at Kimgsmill was calculated and sectarian, they divided the bus by religion and left the one Catholic go with instructions to run and not look back while they executed civilian after civilian. The incendiary device at La Mon was to ensure victims burned to death.

I disagree with Kingsmill. I also disagree with bombs in general. Stealth bombers to IEDs.

Junkyard Tom

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Apologies.

It's no skin off my nose - I didn't lose anyone that day or during the conflict thankfully but I'd say it would be deeply hurtful to someone who did.

Arch censor and anti-nationalist neurotic Conor Cruise O'Brien was successfully sued by the families who lost people on Bloody Sunday for suggesting that they were part of a Republican plot.

Persephone kindness

RustyNut wrote: »

Yea murderers and terrorist's on both sides. Both murdered and both spread terror.

Well I can't speak to that experience I grew up in the safety of south Dublin suburbs. And I am certainly not responsible for any of that stuff. Nor any anti catholic discrimination either. So it's not my responsibility.

Persephone kindness

And republican violence was something else quite frankly.

RustyNut

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Again apologies.

You are correct it's good to see the British Army and Govt take responsibility for their actions. I apologize.

It's good to see someone apologise on behalf of the murdering terrorist imperialist British army. I accept your apology.

steddyeddy

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Well I can't speak to that experience I grew up in the safety of south Dublin suburbs. And I am certainly not responsible for any of that stuff. Nor any anti catholic discrimination either. So it's not my responsibility.

Well my uncle organised the first civil rights marches. He was a peaceful man that wanted equal rights without violence. Loylaists and the army brought the violence.

I'm sure the south Dublin suburbs afford a decent education to most so there's no excuse for ignorance.

tomwaterford

Persephone kindness wrote: »

And republican violence was something else quite frankly.

Yeah....those big meanies....out defending their communities :rolleyes:

Persephone kindness

RustyNut wrote: »

It's good to see someone apologise on behalf of the murdering terrorist imperialist British army. I accept your apology.

You know all of this was a long time ago. And it didn't even happen to you.

RustyNut

RustyNut wrote: »

Yea murderers and terrorist's on both sides. Both murdered and both spread terror.

The paramilitaries on both Republican and Loyalist sides had it as their aim, to kill civilians and spread terror. Hence they targetted civilians in discos and shopping centres and walking home at night, hence they were terrorists. Do we really think they were freedom fighters? In 1978 an 18 year old Catholic had her throat slit because she went for a drink with a friend in Sandy Row and they figured out she was from the "other side". That was the type of war the IRA, INLA, UVF and UFF revelled in. Where is the glory in that? Where is the glory in dividing a bus of factory workers and mowing down the Protestants, or burning them at La Mon, or seeing children hauled out of the Abercron Restaurant, blinded by shards of glass?

Persephone kindness

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is the glory in dividing a bus of factory workers and mowing down the Protestants, or burning them at La Mon, or seeing children hauled out of the Abercron Restaurant, blinded by shards of glass?

They are just serial killer types. They got off on it.

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

The paramilitaries on both Republican and Loyalist sides had it as their aim, to kill civilians and spread terror.

Yawn.

The ol' 'moral equivalence' rears its ugly head. Can you not face the fact that revelling in, and celebrating, the torture and murder of people based on nothing other than their religion was the raison d'etre of Protestant murder gangs and serial killer fraternities? They murdered over 1000 innocent Catholics. Despite being a significant minority innocent Catholics were the most likely to be murdered in the north during the troubles and murdered by loyalist death squads with the support of the so-called security forces.

Do you understand that the people who were supposed to protect the public in the 'security forces' instead engaged in the murder of innocent Catholics?

"There is a congenial, indeed government-backed myth, in both Scotland and in Ireland, that "one side is bad as another": that Sinn Fein-IRA are pretty much the same as the UDA/UVF. This is simply untrue. There is no republican equivalent to the Romper Rooms of the UDA, wherein men were routinely beaten to a pulp by loyalist thugs, and from which both the term and the practice became celebrated. And then there was Lenny Murphy and his merry gang, the Shankill Butchers, who for years in the mid-1970s abducted, tortured and murdered Catholics -- usually by cutting their victims' throats".

Kevin Myers.

RustyNut

Persephone kindness wrote: »

You know all of this was a long time ago. And it didn't even happen to you.

I am well aware of when this massacre happened.just for your information I spent my childhood summers on the Antrim coast in my granny's(rip) place before the modern 'troubles' broke out, Happy days for me in the 1960's.

We're not all millennial's and snowflakes from the comfortable, well heeled ,leafy suburbs of south Dublin, a lot of us lived through the war and came out the other side.

And,if by "it didn't even happen to you." You mean I wasn't murdered by the paras during the Bogside masacre, well 10 out of 10 for your perception, you should apply to detective school when you finish your leaving cert.

end of the road

Persephone kindness wrote: »

You know all of this was a long time ago. And it didn't even happen to you.

doesn't matter, we have to teach the world what the rucba did to the irish. rucba is the RUC and british army, who were all 1 side.

pangbang

jeanjolie wrote: »

It's unlikely that the world would be as it is with a communication network like the Internet.

There's a theory that the brutality of WWII was fueled by the inability of populations to see different groups within their nations and other nations with the humanity that they do today.

The internet would almost certainly have prevented the Troubles.

Theres a flipside to that though, nowadays it is far easier to see differences. It could easily have intensified the troubles.

I think the only real difference would have been government propaganda back then, versus media propaganda now. And that's only a difference in origin!

Persephone kindness

RustyNut wrote: »

I am well aware of when this massacre happened.just for your information I spent my childhood summers on the Antrim coast in my granny's(rip) place before the modern 'troubles' broke out, Happy days for me in the 1960's.

We're not all millennial's and snowflakes from the comfortable, well heeled ,leafy suburbs of south Dublin, a lot of us lived through the war and came out the other side.

And,if by "it didn't even happen to you." You mean I wasn't murdered by the paras during the Bogside masacre, well 10 out of 10 for your perception, you should apply to detective school when you finish your leaving cert.

Sorry but I am not responsible for any of that. And I don't feel responsible.

And I was born in 1991 so I don't think I am a millennial. And if you have been through all of that I would have thought you would have perspective and wisdom enough to want to get along with people and not make them uncomfortable with divisive rhetoric as you are doing with me. I am not going to be guilted into falling for the divisive rhetoric and being angry on your behalf sorry. I like the UK i want to go to Belfast and have a nice time and then go to Buckingham palace curtsy to the Queen and be nice to EVERYONE and learn some Irish too :P

I want to be nice to EVERYONE. And be free from restriction of what you think i should think or feel . THANK YOU ..it was all so long ago

pangbang

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Sorry but I am not responsible for any of that. And I don't feel responsible.

And I was born in 1991 so I don't think I am a millennial. And if you have been through all of that I would have thought you would have perspective and wisdom enough to want to get along with people and not make them uncomfortable with divisive rhetoric as you are doing with me. I am not going to be guilted into falling for the divisive rhetoric and being angry on your behalf sorry. I like the UK i want to go to Belfast and have a nice time and then go to Buckingham palace curtsy to the Queen and be nice to EVERYONE and learn some Irish too :P

I want to be nice to EVERYONE. And be free from restriction of what you think i should think or feel . THANK YOU ..it was all so long ago

I dont mean this in a mean-spirited way at all, but.....all people grow up. You'll find that like every other part of human history, being nice is great with nice people. The problem is the other 90% of the planet

There was some of us using the internet in the early 90's..

Nice roadmap here...
http://techarchives.irish/how-the-internet-came-to-ireland-1987-97/

Though, I suspect that this title should be "What if social media / Facebook was around"

Persephone kindness

pangbang wrote: »

I dont mean this in a mean-spirited way at all, but.....all people grow up. You'll find that like every other part of human history, being nice is great with nice people. The problem is the other 90% of the planet

It didn't seem mean spirited at all

pangbang

Persephone kindness wrote: »

It didn't seem mean spirited at all

Your kind words wont get anywhere with my war-torn, embittered self!

end of the road

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Sorry but I am not responsible for any of that. And I don't feel responsible.

And I was born in 1991 so I don't think I am a millennial. And if you have been through all of that I would have thought you would have perspective and wisdom enough to want to get along with people and not make them uncomfortable with divisive rhetoric as you are doing with me. I am not going to be guilted into falling for the divisive rhetoric and being angry on your behalf sorry. I like the UK i want to go to Belfast and have a nice time and then go to Buckingham palace curtsy to the Queen and be nice to EVERYONE and learn some Irish too

I want to be nice to EVERYONE. And be free from restriction of what you think i should think or feel . THANK YOU ..it was all so long ago

but the queen's status is illegitimate. no point in curtsying to someone who's status has no legitimacy. belfast is in ireland.

your right what happened in the north isn't your fault but you do need to listen to those who know the facts. you will learn a lot.

RustyNut

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Sorry but I am not responsible for any of that. And I don't feel responsible.

And I was born in 1991 so I don't think I am a millennial. And if you have been through all of that I would have thought you would have perspective and wisdom enough to want to get along with people and not make them uncomfortable with divisive rhetoric as you are doing with me. I am not going to be guilted into falling for the divisive rhetoric and being angry on your behalf sorry. I like the UK i want to go to Belfast and have a nice time and then go to Buckingham palace curtsy to the Queen and be nice to EVERYONE and learn some Irish too :P

I want to be nice to EVERYONE. And be free from restriction of what you think i should think or feel . THANK YOU ..it was all so long ago

I hope you don't feel responsible for anything that happened before you were born, I don't think I suggested that you should.

Belfast is a great city to visit I'm a regular visitor likewise Stroke city. I've done quite a bit of travelling in my time and London would be the favourite weekend destination for Myself and Mrs Nut when we get the chance. Curtsying to the queen wouldn't be my thing but hey you knock yourself out.

Just a couple of things you might clear up for me, you refer to my devisive rhetoric, altho I said the provos were murdering terrorists, and the British army were murdering terrorists. Ie the both murdered innocent people and spread terror among innocent people, how is that devisive?

You also refer to the Bogside Massacre as "a tragic mistake" not murder, at what stage does shooting to death of numerous civilians who pose no threat to anybody become more than a just a mistake and become mass murder and an act of terror against the general population?

Persephone kindness

pangbang wrote: »

Your kind words wont get anywhere with my war-torn, embittered self!

I always thought NI peeps would have been happier if they had kissed more girlies! And had more fun!

Persephone kindness

RustyNut wrote: »

I hope you don't feel responsible for anything that happened before you were born, I don't think I suggested that you should.

Belfast is a great city to visit I'm a regular visitor likewise Stroke city. I've done quite a bit of travelling in my time and London would be the favourite weekend destination for Myself and Mrs Nut when we get the chance. Curtsying to the queen wouldn't be my thing but hey you knock yourself out.

Just a couple of things you might clear up for me, you refer to my devisive rhetoric, altho I said the provos were murdering terrorists, and the British army were murdering terrorists. Ie the both murdered innocent people and spread terror among innocent people, how is that devisive?

You also refer to the Bogside Massacre as "a tragic mistake" not murder, at what stage does shooting to death of numerous civilians who pose no threat to anybody become more than a just a mistake and become mass murder and an act of terror against the general population?

Well if how do I explain. Would you like the next generation to feel secure and happy in their home like normal peeps or suspicious and uncomfortable?

You see YOU might be toughened and hardened to these things. But maybe that is because of all those horrible things you went through. Let the souls of the dead rest in peace.

The reality is the character of public figures NOW.
The British army were not terrorists. Some of them did bad things. And we are right to condemn them. But it's not on par with Republican level violence. And SF has characters NOW who were doing this. And their psychology is warped. And it's not simply a thing on paper you can tell from their body language. etc. And maybe it's BECAUSE i am a snowflake i can tell. They scare me.

RustyNut

Persephone kindness wrote: »

I always thought NI peeps would have been happier if they had kissed more girlies! And had more fun!

See my post ,no 86.

Persephone kindness

And David Cameron apologized for Bloody Sunday. And that happened when he was sick.

I think it was right he say sorry. And it's all terrible. But he was only six when this thing happened. But he took responsibility. What else can people do? Some of the things IRA members did actually happened when I was alive like omagh! Or the guy who killed a garda in 2015.

Or the recent guy who tortured a man. I know he was just a Nutjob in SF but still. People should be responsible for what they do.

Persephone kindness

RustyNut wrote: »

See my post ,no 86.

You are ok .. i think i give up now ...i can't bear any more of this. :pac:

Kudos you have energy!