Why Ireland needs a domestic Intelligence organisation immediately

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

It might surprise you to know that Ireland is the only country in the EU that does not have an Intelligence organisation. Instead, we rely almost exclusively on the UK to provide accurate intelligence to us. As we have seen recently, UK intelligence is completely overwhelmed by the number of Islamic extremists. According to MI5, there are at least 23,000 terror suspects in the UK, and 400 active terror plots being investigated

There is a concept in security called 'Defence in Depth'. This means that you don't depend on one single protocol to keep you safe. This creates a bottleneck point of failure, meaning that if one security breach takes place, it will be catastrophic as there is no safety net. It's like having a house, but only locking the front gate instead of the doors. Once the front gate is breached, the attacker is in. So to mitigate this, you lock the gates, the doors and windows, and install an intruder alarm. Also, a big nasty dog helps too.

We are going to get hit. The Irish public need to get this through their skulls.

It's a matter of when, not if. There's no point in pretending our cuddly harmless leprauchan Paddy image is going to save us. It isn't. Some day in the near future, we will be looking on in disbelief as throats are cut or crowds of people are mown down in Dublin or elsewhere.

The only monitoring that takes place in Ireland is the Gardai Special Branch, and to a lesser extent, the G2 Army Intelligence, which is a relatively small organisation. Now, they are already up to their eyeballs with the domestic terrorist/criminal organisations, such as the RIRA, CIRA, Hutch/Kinehan bomb attacks etc. At least with these organisations, they are speaking English. Also, they can be infiltrated with informers.

It's not so easy with the Islamic threats in Ireland. The warning signs are starting to flash. We've had activity down in Waterford recently, and there are a number of suspects who are being investigated for having links to the recent Manchester bombing. We've already had a number of Irish Islamists killed in Iraq and Syria. We got lucky that Khalid Kelly blew himself up in Syria, instead of on a bus in Dublin at rush hour.
ISIS have already declared Ireland a target for operations. The 'yerrah it'll be grand attitude' isn't going to do anymore.

You can read the signs with your eyes closed.

We need to maximise our defences immediately, and do everything we can to minimise our threat profile. There is already suspicious activity taking place in the Clonskeagh mosque/Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland (ICCI), who have links to the radical Muslim Brotherhood. It should also be noted that the imam of the Clonskeagh Mosque/ICCI is Hussein Halawa, who just happens to be the Father of Ibrahim Halawa. Ibrahim is Ireland's current Islamist cause célèbre who is under arrest and awaiting trial in Egypt. He and his sisters just happened to go to Egypt and he found himself on stage somehow calling for violence against the Egyptian government.

Many liberal Irish websites, most notably the Journal.ie, have been consistently regurgitating propaganda and outright lies that support the families claims. Some would say collusion, and even outright collaboration: https://www.thejournal.ie/fatima-halawa-cairo-3186989-Jan2017/

When we are attacked, remember what side these 'journalists' were on. They are playing their part in subverting Irish society, make no mistake about that. Facts are being blatantly omitted when reporting on these stories.


Adding to this, even the imam of the moderate Blanchardstown mosque is telling anyone who will listen that radicalisation is now taking place in Irish mosques. You can guess which mosque that might be:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/imams-split-over-fears-irish-muslims-are-being-radicalised-in-mosques-34222983.html

How many clues do you need before the penny drops? Or will you wait until there are body parts on Irish streets before it dawns on you that this is what reality is in the West now? It isn't going away, and giving out extra cuddles and being nice on Facebook doesn't amount to jack sh1t.

What troubles me most though, is that in spite all of these warnings, all the obvious signs, and the repeated calls for action, nothing will be done until something terrible has happened. We don't take proactive measures in Ireland, we only react.


We've been lucky so far; they only need to be lucky once.

Persephone kindness

Yes we do we have G2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate_of_Military_Intelligence_(Ireland)

Beyondgone

They were going to form an Intelligence Unit. Interviews were held. After 3 months of failing to find anyone with any,it was decided they were being too ambitious.

A panel is being formed to see if starting a new Friday 5-a-side League would be of any use in the matter. As Seargant Gilhooley commented "Sure who could even pronounce dem names for Jasus sake?"

The_Valeyard

I can blame thejournal.ie for a lot of things,

Crappy journalism,
'anonymous' articles,
Biased pieces,
Terrible presentation,
Copy and pasting stories,
Far left support,
Pontificating writers,


But cant really blame them for the rise of Islamic extremism in Ireland.

Persephone kindness

The_Valeyard wrote: »

But cant really blame them for the rise of Islamic extremism in Ireland.

When and IF such a thing happens. I will blame....Joe Duffy.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Yes we do we have G2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate_of_Military_Intelligence_(Ireland)

G2 is a military organisation, primarily concerned with military threats such as overseas missions etc. They are not a dedicated domestic intelligence service, nor are they tasked for such a mission.

Persephone kindness

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

G2 is a military organisation, primarily concerned with military threats such as overseas missions etc. They are not a dedicated domestic intelligence service, nor are they tasked for such a mission.

The Directorate operates domestic and foreign intelligence sections, providing intelligence to the Government of Ireland concerning threats to the security of the state and the national interest from internal and external sources.[

Yes they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Ranger_Wing

Also some of these guys do it.
And these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_%26_Information_Services_Corps

And special branch detective branch of the guards.

Ireland is unusual in one case. All our intelligence people are recruited from military or the guards. Usually anyhow as far as i know.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Yes they are.

The key word is dedicated. And if you read my OP, you will see I noted that they monitor domestic organisations such as RIRA, CIRA etc. But this would be on an ad-hoc basic. Nor would they have the tools or capabilities of an organisation such as MI5, CIA, DGSE etc.

The fact is they are not a fully functional intelligence organisation. That is indisputable.

EDIT:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Ranger_Wing

Also some of these guys do it.
And these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commun...Services_Corps

And special branch detective branch of the guards.

ARW are counter-terrorism and surveillance, not intelligence.

CIGS are communications monitoring, not intelligence. They operate the hardware, they don't centralise or plan reactions.

Special Branch are probably the closest thing we have to an intelligence organisation, but they are more of a multi-role task including intelligence. And the number of Arabic speakers they have within the Garda pool would probably be single figures.






.

Persephone kindness

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

The fact is they are not a fully functional intelligence organisation. That is indisputable.

Yes they are. And they are internationally well respected I assure you.

Persephone kindness

Now ..I can't say anything more. This thread will self destruct.

Persephone kindness

3 ..2 ..1 BOOOOM

everlast75

How did I know that the first link provided by OP was the daily mail...

myshirt

How many times in history were the silent majority irrelevant? That's what people don't realise. It absolutely doesn't matter a sh't that the majority of Muslims are peace loving people. There is still at least 200million who are a gazillion percent dedicated to the destruction of western society.

There are serious problems amongst a significantly large minority of Muslims, and it is horrifying. We need to see more Muslims hitting out at this, like the below

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/25/middle-east-child-abuse-pederasty

Peregrine

Persephone kindness wrote: »

Yes we do we have G2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate_of_Military_Intelligence_(Ireland)

I think the OP is aware of that and wants a dedicated intelligence service rather than making military intelligence cover it.

TheAnalyst_

We do but its part of AGS. What difference does it make if it were separate organisation?

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

everlast75 wrote: »

How did I know that the first link provided by OP was the daily mail...

How did I know someone was going to try and score smug points by making some point about the Daily Mail. Give it a rest fella, it's the internet version of 'did you know I'm a vegan? Make sure you know I'm a vegan'. It's the mentality of first year soc and pol university students who've just read their first Chomsky book. We get it.

Now, here are two other links from a liberal and conservative paper respectively if you'd like to make some useful contribution instead of dragging this thread off topic:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/security-mi5-23000-subjects-interest-counter-terrorism-manchester-abedi-police-a7758671.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/23000-people-have-subjects-interest-scale-terror-threat-emerges/

Zaph

Peregrine wrote: »

I think the OP is aware of that and wants a dedicated intelligence service rather than making military intelligence cover it.

But sure what difference does it make who's doing it as long as there's an intelligence service?

Peregrine

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

We do but its part of AGS. What difference does it make if it were separate organisation?

Well, you wouldn't need to be a fully trained garda or a soldier to be part of the intelligence service.

You can be translator..or a engineer. They could hire any civilian they want rather than training soldiers to learn Arabic or sharing classified info with consultants.

TheAnalyst_

Peregrine wrote: »

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

We do but its part of AGS. What difference does it make if it were separate organisation?

Well, you wouldn't need to be a fully trained garda or a soldier to be part of the intelligence service.

You can be translator..or a engineer. They could hire any civilian they want rather than training soldiers to learn Arabic or sharing classified info with consultants.

They have "civilians" working for them.

We have an intelligence unit. It's part of SDU.
They could increase the size maybe, but it's there.
And they have many many years of experience.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I can blame thejournal.ie for a lot of things,

Crappy journalism,
'anonymous' articles,
Biased pieces,
Terrible presentation,
Copy and pasting stories,
Far left support,
Pontificating writers,


But cant really blame them for the rise of Islamic extremism in Ireland.

I haven't claimed for one second that thejournal.ie are responsible for the rise of Islamic extremism in Ireland. I want to make that clear.

But they appear to have a certain...'fondness' for their favourite pet Islamist, Ibrahim Halawa. And they are working around the clock to give him the best possible PR. This is straying into collusion territory, in my opinion. Why they are doing this is anyone's guess, although I have my suspicions. Certain mosques have deep pockets, and the media is a business first and foremost. Make of that what you will.

Peregrine

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

They have "civilians" working for them.

Although I know such information is usually not freely available, I'd need some more evidence or official suggestions to believe that the Defence Forces or Gardai actively recruit qualified civilians to work in their intelligence sections. That their recruitment pool isn't restricted to less than 0.5% of the population. I presume that they do regularly consult with people who aren't simply a garda or a soldier.

RayM

Immediately? It's a bank holiday weekend. It'll have to wait until Tuesday, I'm afraid.

njs030

bubblypop wrote: »

We have an intelligence unit. It's part of SDU.
They could increase the size maybe, but it's there.
And they have many many years of experience.

I'm sure if they decided to have a recruitment drive and increase the size it wouldn't be advertised to the general public.
They have a counter terrorism unit though.

TheAnalyst_

Peregrine wrote: »

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

They have "civilians" working for them.

Although I know such information is usually not freely available, I'd need some more evidence or official suggestions to believe that the Defence Forces or Gardai actively recruit qualified civilians to work in their intelligence sections. That their recruitment pool isn't restricted to less than 0.5% of the population. I presume that they do regularly consult with people who aren't simply a garda or a soldier.

Why have an opinion if you know close to zero about a subject? That always puzzles me.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Peregrine wrote: »

Well, you wouldn't need to be a fully trained garda or a soldier to be part of the intelligence service.

You can be translator..or a engineer. They could hire any civilian they want rather than training soldiers to learn Arabic or sharing classified info with consultants.

I was about to post something similar. Also, you open up to a wider selection pool by making it a civilian agency.

There is also the aspect of corruption within the Gardai. They should not be in the position to regulate intelligence AND policing. Most countries keep their organisations separate for this reason. That's too much power for one group.

It should also be noted that there is quite a rivalry between the Army and Gardai. So there can be various agendas and interests that compromise overall service. Although turf wars are not uncommon in the intelligence world, see MI5 vs MI6, CIA vs FBI, GRU vs FSB etc.

Here we go

We have access to the British and other European intelligence services all spend far far more then e could ever afford. I'd be far more worried about are response capability last night from first call to Last terriost put down was 8 minutes. By any measurement a swift and effective response. Yet still 7 dead 50 in hospital. Imagine this in Ireland by the time an adiqute response was mobilised. They would have run out of people to kill and on there way back to what ever hope they came out from

Ave Sodalis

bubblypop wrote: »

We have an intelligence unit. It's part of SDU.
They could increase the size maybe, but it's there.
And they have many many years of experience.

Exactly. We're one of the few countries in the world that have had a long standing terrorism group based within our shores, even if it's primarily in the North. Why would people think we, of all countries, wouldn't have some sort of effective intelligence unit?

pangbang

We do need a specific intelligence agency. But why do we need an intelligence agency in the first place?

The order of priority is messed up due to the policing of the majority population by a minority of nutters via media. The "no borders" crew, the "don't step out of line" crew, the "outrage" crew. As things stand, priority goes something like this.

1) "Other" people and minorities
2) They must, at all cost, be welcomed by your country. No limit on numbers.
3) Your exact language, behaviour and actions must be modified to accommodate 1 and 2
4) Set up intelligence agency that wont be allowed do anything proactive, merely react to your own people being murdered.
5) Keep everything as is, don't dare deviate or you'll be ostracised by -isms

So yeah, we need an intelligence agency, but there are quite a few things that need changing upstream. Otherwise what good will it be? Someone gets their name put on a list, then they go out and kill people anyway.

What use is that?

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Here we go wrote: »

We have access to the British and other European intelligence services all spend far far more then e could ever afford. I'd be far more worried about are response capability last night from first call to Last terriost put down was 8 minutes. By any measurement a swift and effective response. Yet still 7 dead 50 in hospital. Imagine this in Ireland by the time an adiqute response was mobilised. They would have run out of people to kill and on there way back to what ever hope they came out from

I'm sure you wouldn't be quite so casual with people's lives if it was your child lying on the ground with her throat cut.

Read paragraph 2 of the OP for why I think an extra layer of security is warranted. There might also come a point post-Brexit where the UK decides the won't share intel with us anymore.

Or if Corbyn gets elected, he has indicated he would shut down the intelligence services :eek:

Mrs OBumble

Ireland has more experience with domestic terrorists that most countries.