Forensic tyre examination

andrioolis

Hi everyone,

My wife had an accident and the suspected cause of the accident was burst front tyre

Tyres were only 1.5 year old and still had around 6-7 mm of thread
As it was a second hand tyres i can't blame manufacturer directly without straight evidence that it's their fault

When tyres were put on the rims no external damage/cracked-cut sides/inside damage/poping out bumps were noticed (was there my self when job was done)

Can anybody advice who does the forensic tyre examination, or checking the car for the other possible faults

Thanks

Gumbo

andrioolis wrote: »

Hi everyone,

My wife had an accident and the suspected cause of the accident was burst front tyre

Tyres were only 1.5 year old and still had around 6-7 mm of thread
As it was a second hand tyres i can't blame manufacturer directly without straight evidence that it's their fault

When tyres were put on the rims no external damage/cracked-cut sides/inside damage/poping out bumps were noticed (was there my self when job was done)

Can anybody advice who does the forensic tyre examination, or checking the car for the other possible faults

Thanks

Good luck.
You put a part worn tyre on the car, got a blow out.
It can happen to a brand new tyre on the way out of the show room.

I don't think you will gain anything.

E36Ross

How old is it?

Similar case in the UK a few weeks back, Tyre was from 1991!

Ionised

I'm just shocked that people still place their life on used tyres

mikeecho

Ionised wrote: »

I'm just shocked that people still place their life on used tyres

I agree.
At least with a brand new tyre the person knows what abuse the tyre has experienced over its life.

With a secondhand/part worn, you just don't know what abuse the tyre has experienced.

Same goes for when you buy a second hand car.

But with the tyre, bought part worn, you have no easy way of knowing if it came off a crashed car, and what stresses it was under.

Buy new, buy premium, buy the best for your car.
But many will disagree with me.

Skatedude

What pressure did you keep your tyres at?

mikeecho

Also... the expense that you will go through to try and prove your case. You'll be able to buy premium tyres for many years into the future.

And you'll not recieve any satifaction from the manufacturer... You only hope.. and it's s very very slim chance is to go back to where you bought the part worn tyres. At most you'll get a replacement tyre.. At most..

Save your breath, save your time, save up your money.

andrioolis

yeah - i can see that opinion is not the greatest one
the tyres were 1.5y old (clearly written in the question) to be precise 14th week of 2015.
pressure 2.2 bar at the time it was fitted and not overinflated

of course there is no guarantee that the tyre wasn't abused (please define what is abused?)

if there are no visual damage to internal cord or external cracks there is no way to predetermine if it has any defects

Thanks

KeithTS

andrioolis wrote: »

yeah - i can see that opinion is not the greatest one
the tyres were 1.5y old (clearly written in the question) to be precise 14th week of 2015.
pressure 2.2 bar at the time it was fitted and not overinflated

of course there is no guarantee that the tyre wasn't abused (please define what is abused?)

if there are no visual damage to internal cord or external cracks there is no way to predetermine if it has any defects

Thanks

Was the tyre pressure not checked or amended since the tyre was fitted?

andrioolis

it was checked couple weeks after but not amended

223vmax

Don't bother cut your losses and move on.....

mikeecho

andrioolis wrote: »

yeah - i can see that opinion is not the greatest one
the tyres were 1.5y old (clearly written in the question) to be precise 14th week of 2015.
pressure 2.2 bar at the time it was fitted and not overinflated

of course there is no guarantee that the tyre wasn't abused (please define what is abused?)

if there are no visual damage to internal cord or external cracks there is no way to predetermine if it has any defects

Thanks

Define abuse ...

Krebs, potholes. Run over / under in inflated
Involved in a crash that involved a vehicle rolling, skidding sideways etc.
All incidents that would have put extra stress on the tyre.

You're barking up a tree

KeithTS

Madness, look after your tyres from now on, they're the only thing between you and the road.

Be thankful that your wife (I presume) is unharmed and move on. Learn from the incident and don't waste your energy looking to place blame.

km991148

mikeecho wrote: »

Define abuse ...

Krebs, potholes. Run over / under in inflated
Involved in a crash that involved a vehicle rolling, skidding sideways etc.
All incidents that would have put extra stress on the tyre.

You're barking up a tree

Even just coming off a car where they werent aligned/ balanced properly -

Even with a new tyre proving a fault after 1.5 years of use would be difficult.. Plus how long was the tyre stored before put onb your car.

I cant believe I just replied to this - as this seems a futile wast of time. Hope your wife is ok tho and wasn't serious.

andrioolis

i don't mind the monetary loses - car has been written off by insurance as itlanded back on the roof after hitting 3 trees and damaging the fence.
my misses she had a concussion and miscarriage after it - thats the most important part why i need to find out the real cause of the accident.

i understand why some people are against second hand tyres - safety etc but no one understand the thing that even if you buy the brand new tyres it can be faulty also - slight change but it is.

Also when tyres where bought they were on the original rims, inflated (not flat) and as i mentioned with out any visual damage.

Apologies for the moaning - but it's important for me to get to the main question and find it out does anybody in Ireland does certified forensic tyre check

andrioolis

car (MB) had low tyre pressure warning in place which was very accurate

07Lapierre

What speed was your car travelling at at the time of the accident?

What were the circumstances of the accident?

What were the weather conditions at the time of the accident?

Were there any other vehicles involved?

Was the tyre on the front or rear of the car?

is the car RWD or FWD?

In short...the tyre is just one factor which may or may not be relevant.

grogi

andrioolis wrote: »

yeah - i can see that opinion is not the greatest one the tyres were 1.5y old (clearly written in the question) to be precise 14th week of 2015.

Sorry for picking holes - but redo the maths...

uck51js9zml2yt

The only way to know a tyre was ok at time of purchase is that it was xrayed at the point of purchase.

You can't go back in time having since driven on the tyre.

Move on and buy new in future.

mikeecho

Deacon Some Tofu wrote: »

The only way to know a tyre was ok at time of purchase is that it was xrayed at the point of purchase.

You can't go back in time having since driven on the tyre.

Move on and buy new in future.

+100 move on, and in future, but new. Buy premium

beer enigma

kceire wrote: »

It can happen to a brand new tyre on the way out of the show room.

It sure can

Few years back I had a brand new Goodyear blow on me 20 minutes after it was fitted - wire meshing came right out through the tyre. Nobody hurt, no damage and Goodyear accepted liability and replaced all four tyres.

I wonder would the manufacturer have liability anyway, you didn't buy it off of them and probably bought 'sold as seen'

andrioolis

my apologies mistype week 41 2015

grogi

andrioolis wrote: »

my apologies mistype week 41 2015

Move on. I am really sorry to hear about the consequences, but unfortunately you bought the tyres that were marked for recycling already (probably came from a crashed vehicle). Nobody would accept liability in such case.

mikeecho

beer enigma wrote: »

It sure can

Few years back I had a brand new Goodyear blow on me 20 minutes after it was fitted - wire meshing came right out through the tyre. Nobody hurt, no damage and Goodyear accepted liability and replaced all four tyres.

I wonder would the manufacturer have liability anyway, you didn't buy it off of them and probably bought 'sold as seen'

Same story(ish).. brand new tyres Sava brand bought from a goodyear manufacturer in cork, had a blow out on the way home after nee sava tyres fitted.
Turns out the fitter didn't fit new valves.

New tyre and new valves fitted all round.
Owner was a friend, so no issue made, as it was all supplied below cost.

andrioolis

thanks for the opinion everyone

Atlantic Dawn

The tyres could have been submerged in the water for weeks or months prior to sale, no way of telling the history of a part worn tyre.

ScumLord

andrioolis wrote: »

i understand why some people are against second hand tyres - safety etc but no one understand the thing that even if you buy the brand new tyres it can be faulty also - slight change but it is.

You would have some come back with the manufacturer though.

I don't think second hand tyres can be compared to second hand cars either, two very different things. A car is a complicated machine and one failure isn't going to make the machine dangerous.

Tyres are a simple straight forward component but absolutely vital to the car's safety. A tyre failure can lead to a serious accident almost immediately. It's just not worth the risk. You can skimp on every other component on a car, even brakes work when the pads are gone, but tyres have a binary life, they work, then they don't.

I'd say the most likely thing is that the tyre got cut by something on the road. But you don't know, the guy before hand could have been using the tyres for drifting, heating up the tyre, letting it cool, heating it up beyond its intended limits again, and repeating that on different surfaces, at different temperature cooking the inside of the tyre and creating weaknesses you can't see on the surface. The car could have been parked on some sort of acidic surface, the list is endless. It's like buying second hand condoms.

Buffman

Hi OP. Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you and your wife are doing OK.

andrioolis wrote: »

Apologies for the moaning - but it's important for me to get to the main question and find it out does anybody in Ireland does certified forensic tyre check

No need to apologies IMO, I can understand where you're coming from.

To answer your question, yes there are companies out there that provide the type of service you're after, here's a random one. http://www.collisionconsulting.ie/

Given the injuries sustained by your wife, I'm assuming there is/was a Garda investigation. As part of that, a Garda PSV inspector should examine the vehicle. I'd recommend you liaise with the Garda handling your case and request information from that aspect.

I'm assuming you're asking about the tyre inspection from a possible legal action point of view. I'd recommend a consultation with a solicitor regarding the probable outcome of that type of case before spending any of your own money on inspections etc.

kirving

It's certainly possible for a new tyre to blow, but I would put money on a second hand tyre being dozens if not hundreds of times more likely to blow. There's just too much that can happen in the 1.5 years you had it, compared to a fresh tyre. Age, 1.5 years, really doesn't come into it as I could hit a kerb on the way out of the garage and invisibly damage the tyre to such an extent that it will blow a mile down the road.

Atlantic Dawn

In the UK they have Trading Standards to investigate sellers of part worn tyres to see they adhere to certain standards, in old Ireland there is nobody doing any such investigations.

In some areas more than 80% are sold illegally, many with serious safety defects, according to council Trading Standards' teams.

The LGA said irresponsible traders were "putting lives at serious risk".

Part-worn tyres are being sold with unsafe repairs and incorrect labelling, council Trading Standards teams reported.

In 2015, there were 16 deaths and 908 road casualties that involved illegal, defective or under-inflated tyres, according to government figures.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38691767

iguot

Would a 14 year old tyre, never used, sitting in the boot be ok?

Del2005

iguot wrote: »

Would a 14 year old tyre, never used, sitting in the boot be ok?

The rubber could have perished, but plenty of people have the same spare sitting for longer. So best to treat it like a space saver, don't go over 80 and get it replaced ASAP.

mikeecho

iguot wrote: »

Would a 14 year old tyre, never used, sitting in the boot be ok?

Nope

Del2005 wrote: »

The rubber could have perished, but plenty of people have the same spare sitting for longer. So best to treat it like a space saver, don't go over 80 and get it replaced ASAP.

+1

Although, I wouldn't bother replacing it, as long as it'll only be used as a spare until you get a replacement the following day.

beer enigma

iguot wrote: »

Would a 14 year old tyre, never used, sitting in the boot be ok?

Would you jump out of a plane with a parachute that had been sitting in the boot for 14 years ?

Atlantic Dawn

beer enigma wrote: »

Would you jump out of a plane with a parachute that had been sitting in the boot for 14 years ?

Some people would because it paschhht de NCT on a 'pass advisory' :pac:

bear1

iguot wrote: »

Would a 14 year old tyre, never used, sitting in the boot be ok?

Throw it away.
The thread should be a warning not to risk sticking questionable tyres on your car.
Sincere condolences to the poster and his wife.

_Brian

Second hand tyres a year and a half ago and you think maybe the supplier is at fault ??

Your wife could have been kerbing the tyre every day since and weakened it.

It could have been regularly driven soft

The most likely cause of any accident is human error.

I'd love to see stats but it must be minuscule % of accidents that are caused by vehicle defects.

bear1

_Brian wrote: »

Second hand tyres a year and a half ago and you think maybe the supplier is at fault ??

Your wife could have been kerbing the tyre every day since and weakened it.

It could have been regularly driven soft

The most likely cause of any accident is human error.

I'd love to see stats but it must be minuscule % of accidents that are caused by vehicle defects.

According to the rsa, between 2008 and 2012 111 people died and 30 were seriously injured were vehicle defects were a contributing factor.
Between 2008 and 2012 71 deaths were linked to defective tyres.

_Brian

bear1 wrote: »

According to the rsa, between 2008 and 2012 111 people died and 30 were seriously injured were vehicle defects were a contributing factor.
Between 2008 and 2012 71 deaths were linked to defective tyres.

But accidents.
The % of accidents caused by defective tyres compared to human error must be tiny.

bear1

_Brian wrote: »

But accidents.
The % of accidents caused by defective tyres compared to human error must be tiny.

Taking those stats from the rsa would say the percentage isnt that small.
71 deaths caused by the tyres is a lot.

seagull

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Hence why I have to bit my tongue in here when I see numpty's posting about "sure a tyre is a tyre". Spreading dangerous misinformation about a potential lethal shortcut.

Why bite your tongue? I think you should give anyone posting rubbish like that the kind of response they deserve, and absolutely flay them. Anyone taking that approach is just an accident waiting to happen. Hopefully they manage to only wrap themselves around a pole and not involve anyone else.

E36Ross

iguot wrote: »

Would a 14 year old tyre, never used, sitting in the boot be ok?

To fire on to just get the car home or to a tyre shop..... (Driving sensibly!) I'd have no issue using it for a few miles.