BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124034435#Comment_124034435

I'd sooner take Donald Trumps word as gospel before the head of the NTA.

Also needless to say, my "scheduled" 6.58pm bus didn't show up. So I'd to wait another 15 minutes.

trellheim

Just on Abbey St , its terribly used for buses,

no buses on the western part cos the LUAS doesnt want to share

no buses outside Arnotts on Abbey St at all because the LUAS doesnt want to share there either - no problem doing so on James St but I digress

Abbey St East of OCS - an absolute nightmare for buses, sharing with LUAS. Jams up super frequently as the 130s,33s and Hs fill the stops and you'll get some drivers who will sit there blocking waiting to pull in instead of going back round the loop

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124035982#Comment_124035982

There is a stop just to the west of the Luas stop for the Collins 980 service, but yes for the most part all bus services are concentrated to the eastern end of Abbey Street.

dublinman1990

There's more details reported about the new ODMA contract awarded to Go Ahead Ireland on the Route One website.

https://www.route-one.net/news/go-ahead-ireland-takes-up-new-larger-contract-in-greater-dublin/

The contract will last for 5 years with a optional 2 year extension. The new contract will add 150 buses to their fleet over it's timescale.

It says here that Go Ahead Ireland will be confirmed soon by the NTA to take over the depot at Ballycoolin in Dublin 15.

Ballymount Depot will be getting new charging points installed for it's bus fleet as well. However no timescale has been confirmed by the NTA about when work is to begin yet.

And it also mentions the new depot in Killpedder in Wicklow which I think has already opened a little while ago back in October.

Their recruitment campaign is getting a lot more women drivers to it's workforce.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124038683#Comment_124038683

I am now starting to see the unfortunate naming that is the Northwest Business Park Depot and the Ballycoolin Depot, which I believe are Both in Ballycoolin.

I imagine that the depot the article is referring to is the Northwest Business Park Depot already being built for GAI, and not the Ballycoolin Depot which is still in planning and is supposed to go to DB. There is no way they will be given both, as that would essentially stunt DB's growth, especially as its still the plan to close Conyngham Road.

There also is a timeframe for Ballymount's electrification, burried in the NTA's PQ responses, page 152 and 153 are about depot electrification and says that there is planned to be up to 111 charging guns by early 2027. I have not seen a number mentioned anywhere else.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124038904#Comment_124038904

Since when were they planning to close Conyngham Road? First I've heard of it

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124039065#Comment_124039065

Its part of the Heuston Masterplan, it's proposed to be replaced with apartments that link to the development at Heuston via a pedestrian bridge over the Liffey.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124039065#Comment_124039065

Its exactly what p_haugh says above, it's in a location that they want to redevelop into mixed use.

It won't close for a good few years though, I believe 2027 was the absolute earliest, but may not happen until post 2030 depending on the progression of the Heuston master plan and more importantly the depot's relocation.

I believe it's relocation is separate to the capacity being added as a part of the Ballycoolin depot but I am not sure. That said I would bet any replacement depot will be larger, in the order of 150-200 buses like the other new depot's. But of course it all depends on the land available.

mikeybhoy

Deleted.

AX636

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124038904#Comment_124038904

DB are looking at sites around the naas road area for Conyngham Road replacement

jd

Just saw a post by Conor Reddy on FB

https://www.facebook.com/ConorReddyPBP/posts/pfbid02jqmYaJhJMZXN2kCkk9oYWxLdvyZUhzGNpy7ovmWfnUZYgShn81kBbRKDzksXhno7l

"From early spring, the 23 and 24 will operate via the Quays and O’Connell Bridge or Rosie Hackett Bridge.
The NTA also confirmed that they will examine routing the 23 and 24 via Beneavin Road.
Timetables and staffing:
Dublin Bus want to tackle issues of punctuality and cancellations by making changes to timetables and increasing staffing levels. These adjustments should improve all Finglas routes, not just the 23 and 24."

cgcsb

What a daft decision. 23 and 24 were great for reaching the liberties from the northside

hfjm20

Do we think there’s a possibility of busconnects being axed if the next phase’s rollout isn’t a success?

cgcsb

They've gone about arse about face. On paper it was a sound plan but the NTA doesn't have the ability to manage phasing, implementation or consultation. A professional management consultant should have been hired for it.

I dont think it'll be canned but definitely scaled back unfortunately because the public image of the project is now toxic.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124041820#Comment_124041820

we're 8 years into it, what's another few years.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124041832#Comment_124041832

Just do the rest of the orbitals and leave it at that the only thing good that has come out of BC has been the orbitals and some of the locals. The spines have all either been a disaster (F and G) and the rest have been no real improvement (C, E and H)

cgcsb

I'd tend to agree. Implementing orbitals and some quick build bus priority should have been done straight up in 2020/2021.

Instead of trying to run spines through congested roads while taking away good services or reducing good services to unusable.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124041524#Comment_124041524

Looking at what he is saying I think there might be a bit of misunderstanding at some level.

There is no way they are going to have a route turning on OCB on anything but a temporary basis, particularly the northbound turn to the Quays. It was difficult before the bus gates and now buses frequently have to reverse to make it around, also no to mentions knock-on problems it could cause for CG. The temporary 80 rerouting is going to be a reminder of that. If it is being routed via the Quays it's almost definitely going via Tara St northbound and Rosie Hackett Bridge/Hawkins St southbound.

Additionally he mentions potentially rerouting the 23 and 24 via Beneavin Rd, and thoughts aside about the reroute, rerouting the 23 would make no sense. If it were to happen it would only be the 24.

Now that said, these changes really surprise me and I don't think they are going to go over well. They seem to be completely dropping the ball on buses on Bridge, Dame, and George's Street, and I think that will have a bigger negative impact than any improvements from rerouting via the Quays. Particularly for the 23 and 24 which are much better connected to the spines that the 80.

Also, while we have yet to learn what is happening to the southern half of the 80, at this rate the only buses via George's St could be the 71 and 72. At just 7bph in the peak hours, I would be surprised if that is enough.

I also would be surprised if the Beneavin Rd changes happen. Partially because I think that would be an awkward routing for the 24 that would add quite a bit of time, but also because it's nested in between the 23 and 24 and it really is quite close together.

Daith

I got an email from Paul McAuliffe, TD for Dub NW, which echoed most of what was said by Councillor Reddy.

Issues with F spines due to lack of drivers and they've made time table changes.

His email did clarify there was no commitment about the 24 going down Beneavin Road.

Also some 19 routes that aren't going to Mention Sq in the morning, won't be changing either.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124042035#Comment_124042035

The issue is as I have posted several times now.

The routes need new rosters with longer running times so that each journey will have enough time to get to the other end of the route on time - that means that they need more drivers and buses to deliver the schedule.

Also, drawing up new rosters is convoluted and takes time - hence they are saying early 2026.

There are six extra short departures between Wadelai Park and Parnell Square in the mornings - they use three buses to do them all - the buses go back out empty after the first trip. Hence they won’t go any further.

Daith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124042086#Comment_124042086

The actual issue is that they went ahead with the F spine launch knowing all this. Launching it and telling people you have to now wait a couple of months while we fix it is nonsense

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124041820#Comment_124041820

Zero chance of that happening, I would think. When you say "axed", do you mean "bring back the old routes" or "leave it half-finished"? They have no choice but to continue rolling it out.

VG31

The NTA have confirmed the 23/24 changes https://www.transportforireland.ie/news/nta-to-amend-bus-routes-23-and-24-alignment-to-improve-reliability-for-finglas-passengers/

I'm not a fan of the new proposed routing. It's much better having a connection to the Christchurch and George's Street areas. I know it can be congested at High Street and Bridge Street at peak times but southbound it's a lot quicker than the 83 routing via the quays and D'Olier Street (which is also very slow in the evening). Church Street still has the worst congestion on the 23/24 routes and yet that's just ignored.

It's a big drop in connectivity for George's Street/Aungier Street losing the 23, 24 and 80. Does that mean there will be no buses at all there after College Green is pedestrianised?

There's already a huge number of routes serving O'Connell Bridge, Trinity and Nassau Street, including the E and F spines. They don't need even more routes.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124042180#Comment_124042180

At an even slower pace.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124042405#Comment_124042405

Is there a battle to be had in the future about CG.

Will the pedestrian plans be scaled back or removed altogether in favour of giving more city centre road space to the bus network.

Hopefully not, but I do wonder, once you consider how badly the current services are running and there is still plenty of buses to be added to the roll out yet.

Daith

Agreed around the connectivity to different areas.

I really would have liked some F route to have gone down Phisboro and one of the 23/24 to go through Whitworth Road/Dorset St.

It would have provided a bit more choice and flexibility for different areas in Finglas. A high frequency spine only works for people on the spine.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124041820#Comment_124041820

No. Partially because we're too far into it at this point, but more importantly the D- and A- spines are practically needed for College Green Plaza.

I also think the D and A spines will be less controversial. The spines themselves are a massive improvement over most of the core routes, and I think some of the most valid complaints have been addressed. The big one was the replacement of the 13 in Inchicore and Bluebell with the hourly 58, but some other issues flew under the radar and were fixed. Such as the massive drop in frequency for the 71 and 72 from the 122 south, 150, and 151 north or the loss of service for Bushy Park Rd.

The remaining points of controversy I see for the D and A spines are the lack of direct Inchicore-Thomas St service, the 33 being replaced by the L85, a slight drop in direct CC-airport buses, and the loss of Airport-Beaumont service (lot of airport/airline staff in Beaumont). However, I don't think these will be as much of an issue as looking at the big picture it should be an improvement, though I am already hearing some complaints about the 33.

After that there will just be the B-spine and Ranelagh-Sandyford radials, and there is no point in getting that far and then stopping. That said I am not sure what the reaction to the B-spine will be, as I think it is a big shake-up to the services. I'd like to think most will like having more direct services, as many of the current Blanch routes wander quite a bit. However the P64/70 in Dunboyne, 120/36 and 122/48 in Cabra and Ashington, and 7A/98 in Loughlinstown I think could be quite controversial changes. The 48 in particular I cannot see launching as proposed, and I am betting will get extended to Burlington Rd or Ballsbridge and be bumped to 30 min maybe even 20 min freq. As it's like the 19, 58, and 71/72 changes, while it's expected to have a lot of capacity shifted to the spines, they were a bit too extreme to work.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124042098#Comment_124042098

The problem is with such a long route it's nigh on impossible to adequately gauge the running times without actually running it.

And even then the longer the route the more chance of large discrepancies in the running times of individual buses, already a few times I've seen F1s running one behind another.

The orbitals look great on paper but just won't work with the current congestion.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124042098#Comment_124042098

The immediate issue is what I said above. You can’t just magic that right unfortunately or turn the clock back as the routes are all inter-related.

There are absolutely questions to be asked over how the whole initial scheduling process is being managed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124042713#Comment_124042713

For most of the routes they have historical data that they can use and should be using to schedule sections of the new routes, but they clearly didn’t.

They gave the 80 less time to get from Dame St to Palmerston Park than the 140 had and it was scheduled too tightly as it was.

Where you are using new routings then absolutely there are going to be mistakes made, but they badly and I mean really badly underestimated these running times.

PlatformNine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124042405#Comment_124042405

It's a big drop in connectivity for George's Street/Aungier Street losing the 23, 24 and 80. Does that mean there will be no buses at all there after College Green is pedestrianised?

Officially we have not been told what will happen to the southside 80, which could in theory still be routed via George's St. However, as they are pointing to Bridge St -Christchurch as the problem I would expected it be rerouted to Parnell Sqaure, in which case only the 71 and 72 would remain. It's a drop from the proposed 19bph or 21bph (depending on 80 freq after the A-spine) to just 7bph.

There's already a huge number of routes serving O'Connell Bridge, Trinity and Nassau Street, including the E and F spines. They don't need even more routes.

Just turning at OCB would cause issues.

I would be very surprised if they route through OCB, as it would be reviving the 26 routing which was one of the worst CC routings in the network. I think they will pick the Rosie Hackett Bridge and Tara St alignment like the C spine currently uses, but that they may be considering it so they can at least respond with a reason.