BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Goldengirl

This post has been deleted.

Goldengirl

This post has been deleted.

Stephen15

Goldengirl wrote: »

I have eventually managed to see a feeder or orbital bus route on the proposed network that seems to replace the 104, but I can't find out the frequency of it, N6?

Every 15 mins Monday to Saturday and every 20-25 mins on a Sunday and on Saturday off peak.

AlekSmart

noelfirl wrote: »

Would you defend this sort of crap from the NBRU and it's surrogates about BusConnects, Alek?



A little bit of cop on please.

Why the question about defending the NBRU ?

I'm personally quite positive about Busconnects and the work which has gone into it.

My point is that the NBRU and Dermot O Leary have done a fantastic Hearts & Minds Job,something which the NTA,with it's considerable resources has totally failed to do.

The NTA,now has significant work to do,if it's to salvage the Busconnects concept.

LeinsterDub

Goldengirl wrote: »

It's not vanity , it's dignity . You might try it sometime .
And that's an example of your ignorant offensive remarks.

I'm going to ask one final time and perhaps you'll not ignore it again how is a feeder bus helpful if the bus stop is 300 metres away and one can't walk that distance?

noelfirl

AlekSmart wrote: »

Why the question about defending the NBRU ?

I'm personally quite positive about Busconnects and the work which has gone into it.

My point is that the NBRU and Dermot O Leary have done a fantastic Hearts & Minds Job,something which the NTA,with it's considerable resources has totally failed to do.

The NTA,now has significant work to do,if it's to salvage the Busconnects concept.

The NBRU and Dermot O'Leary have done 'a fantastic hearts & minds job' of presenting a selective one-sided narrative to whip up fear and discontent to try and knife the plan pre-birth as quickly as possible. As I've said before, if you think the failure of the NTA to counter is a strong justification for that, I'm quite surprised.

Two immense wrongs don't make a right, and I struggle to see how one can be quite positive about BusConnects while also giving the NBRU a 'huzzah' for trying to fatally undermine it.

r93kaey5p2izun

The twitter spat is awful. Some of O'Leary's comments are unacceptable but those engaging in the tit for tat look just as bad and are drawing more attention to his statements. And the anti-union petty digs only serve to win him nore support. Total PR fail being helped along by unpaid "experts".

LeinsterDub

Anaya Angry Meatloaf wrote: »

The twitter spat is awful. Some of O'Leary's comments are unacceptable but those engaging in the tit for tat look just as bad and are drawing more attention to his statements. And the anti-union petty digs only serve to win him nore support. Total PR fail being helped along by unpaid "experts".

Can you highlight some of the anti unions posts. The closest I've seen to anti union was when DOL claimed the NBRU where looking out for the elderly and disabled and someone rightly pointed out that this concern was put in the back burner during their strike days

devnull

I read on Joan Collin's Facebook page that she is hoping that there will be a 'Day of Action' in September.
https://www.facebook.com/JoanCollinsTD/posts/2011595395559549

sharper

Kh1993 wrote: »

Reading boards, there’s no in between. There’s th constant “this is the best plan ever, you can’t argue with Jarrett’s plan, the public wants to change buses, the unions/politicians are the devils” to the “there’s no bus to the door of the elderly, the system is fine, it just needs more buses, I’m losing my direct once an hour bus”.

I haven't seen anyone express unqualified support for this plan. Even if you love the plan and it just so happens to literally be delivering a 5 minute service to your front door you would still have many reasons to worry about what the final version of the plan will look like and how the combination of NTA, DCC and Dublin Bus will actually execute it. See Luas Cross City for a great example of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Discussion works best if everyone is aligned in terms of what they want as an outcome (e.g. a better bus service for dublin) and are knowldgeable/willing to learn about what's being proposed. There are plenty in the overall discussion that see taking down the entire plan as their own means of advancement (politicians), see it as a threat to their existing position (Dublin Bus management), see it as an opportunity to extract greater concessions (NBRU no matter what they claim, they've never had any concerns are all about anything except more pay).

There are also those that don't understand the plan. This is fine, it's a complicated proposal and it's a totally different way of looking at things. What is less fine is willful ignorance and refusing to look into things more or waiting before forming a judgement.

The simple fact is a lot of people don't care at all about public transport in Dublin.

I'm a daily dublin bus user. I'm absolutely worried about the impact of changing busses. I'm able bodied but I understand why people less so are worried about local stops changing.

LeinsterDub

devnull wrote: »

I read on Joan Collin's Facebook page that she is hoping that there will be a 'Day of Action' in September.
https://www.facebook.com/JoanCollinsTD/posts/2011595395559549

Can anyone see a difference between these?

cgcsb

sharper wrote: »

The people that don't like this plan also seem to take particular issue with Jarret Walker as an individual. I don't think there's anything he could do which wouldn't be criticised in this case.

But he's an ootsider and a furriner and he doesn't care about me granny.

cgcsb

devnull wrote: »

Got to admit at this stage it's hard to see how the plan can survive in it's current form by everything that is being kicked up, unless the NTA starts to take firm control of the situation because it's turning into somewhat of a circus in my view.

Does anyone know what SIPTU's view on this is? They seem to be very quiet. Would the members of the NBRU tend to be more senior than SIPTU, and potentially have more to lose, such as marked-in status?

The problem is, who actually cares what SIPTU or NBRU's view is beyond that of any individual commentator.

LeinsterDub

Decided to email press@nationaltransport.ie

Here's the automatic reply

On annual leave. Media queries - 085-xxx-xxxx

Jesus tap dancing christ

MJohnston

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well, I can only speak for myself, and I'm trying my hardest to only explain the alternatives to people when they are unhappy about the loss of a particular route.

Here's the N6 frequencies, it's on page 140 of the full report (or download the Hours and Frequencies sub-report):



Blue is 30 minute frequency, red is the number indicated, purple is 20-26 minutes.

This seems like a massive improvement over the 104's current 1 hour frequency.

_Kaiser_

I think that despite the advocacy by enthusiasts here, the PR battle and need to win over the general public is going badly and it's this effort (or lack thereof) that will decide the fate of the plan.

There's no point throwing out the toys because people can't/won't see the bigger picture (Irish people are selfish and parochial by nature and don't care about someone's trip 15km away), if this plan has any future it needs to start selling the REAL, VERIFIABLE benefits to each area and how it fits together.

That's done by local info/meetings, an online journey planner with comparisons between current options/times/costs and proposed, and less of the defensive argumentative stuff that only serves to get people's backs up and makes them closed off to any further points... but then, that's not even happening here, never mind in the wider media so who knows....

MJohnston

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think that despite the advocacy by enthusiasts here, the PR battle and need to win over the general public is going badly and it's this effort (or lack thereof) that will decide the fate of the plan.

There's no point throwing out the toys because people can't/won't see the bigger picture (Irish people are selfish and parochial by nature and don't care about someone's trip 15km away), if this plan has any future it needs to start selling the REAL, VERIFIABLE benefits to each area and how it fits together.

That's done by local info/meetings, an online journey planner with comparisons between current options/times/costs and proposed, and less of the defensive argumentative stuff that only serves to get people's backs up and makes them closed off to any further points... but then, that's not even happening here, never mind in the wider media so who knows....

Not much point in us creating a journey planner if NTA are already working on one (which was mentioned by someone earlier in the week), although I have certainly been tempted to do so.

_Kaiser_

MJohnston wrote: »

Not much point in us creating a journey planner if NTA are already working on one (which was mentioned by someone earlier in the week), although I have certainly been tempted to do so.

I didn't mean people here should do it It should have been in place really when the plan was announced.

My point here is that some of the enthusiasts are a little blinded I think by their general love of the topic and wish to see such a plan implemented here, and are a touch resentful of opposition or dissent (you can see it in the replies to some of the posts).

This is reflected in the attitudes on other social media, but also somewhat in the responses from the "officials" who SHOULD be selling the benefits and giving people the info they want/need, rather than getting into arguments or telling people "it's all on the website"

That sort of attitude just annoys people who don't follow these things closely (or are probably not even aware of it) until they hit "mainstream media", at which point the natural question is "how will this affect me?"

Unless the WAY those questions are answered improves, and unless the answers ARE actually an improvement to the current situation, then this plan is doomed from the start IMO as people will just switch off and lobby to keep what they have and know.

cgcsb

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think that despite the advocacy by enthusiasts here, the PR battle and need to win over the general public is going badly and it's this effort (or lack thereof) that will decide the fate of the plan.

There's no point throwing out the toys because people can't/won't see the bigger picture (Irish people are selfish and parochial by nature and don't care about someone's trip 15km away), if this plan has any future it needs to start selling the REAL, VERIFIABLE benefits to each area and how it fits together.

That's done by local info/meetings, an online journey planner with comparisons between current options/times/costs and proposed, and less of the defensive argumentative stuff that only serves to get people's backs up and makes them closed off to any further points... but then, that's not even happening here, never mind in the wider media so who knows....

I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a public consultation is. Dermot O'Leary tweeting, even if he has followers, wont change a sausage. The money is there, and the public consultation has 8 weeks left. Bar some massive political interference from Leo Varadkar himself, that €2bn ain't going back in pot. This is happening, and people who have specific issues need to get their views in and get behind the plan overall.

dfx-

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Decided to email press@nationaltransport.ie

Here's the automatic reply

Jesus tap dancing christ

:pac: :pac:

If that happened at Dublin Bus - annual leave just after announcing a major network change, there'd be fire and fury on here...

LeinsterDub

dfx- wrote: »

:pac: :pac:

If that happened at Dublin Bus - annual leave just after announcing a major network change, there'd be fire and fury on here...

Your right there would . I'm like a broken parent at this stage . "I'm not angry NTA i'm just disappointed"

sharper

dfx- wrote: »

:pac: :pac:

If that happened at Dublin Bus - annual leave just after announcing a major network change, there'd be fire and fury on here...

If it was Dublin Bus they wouldn't have setup the auto responder.

I don't really feel a huge sense of outrage here, I have no idea how many staff work for the NTA and the person could be off for a single day. On the NTA website there are several addresses listed including a generl equiries address of info@nationaltransport.ie

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/contact-us/intro-and-general-enquiries-press-contacts-and-oireachtas-liaison/

jd

It could be an alias forwarded on to a few people, but can't tell without seeing the from address on the out of office.

dfx-

sharper wrote: »

If it was Dublin Bus they wouldn't have setup the auto responder.

I don't really feel a huge sense of outrage here, I have no idea how many staff work for the NTA and the person could be off for a single day. On the NTA website there are several addresses listed including a generl equiries address of info@nationaltransport.ie

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/contact-us/intro-and-general-enquiries-press-contacts-and-oireachtas-liaison/

Yeah, I'm sure there's someone who could respond working today at the NTA if you email every address..

The point is the NTA should be out there making its point, falling over itself to make itself available for interviews/press releases/explanations/positive impacts etc..getting your point across. You've just announced the biggest change to the network in decades which you planned in advance for months presumably.

But for now, annual leave.

Thrashssacre

Looking at the NBRU and Dermot O Learys twitter it's clear to see how transport in this country has gotten so bad. They've literally spent all day calling one user names collectively because he tried to have a debate with them on the proposals.

What a pack of absolute morons.......

Thrashssacre

I hope everyone here who would like to see this plan implimented makes it to one of these consultation meeting because I have no faith in the NTA to defend this plan and you can be sure the union types and far left populists will be all over these spending misinformation and trying to destroy the plan.

MJohnston

Had to block O'Leary on Twitter as I wasted too much of my life last night trying to understand what he's actually talking about. I called him out on some blatant lies in his NBRU "information handouts", and he stopped responding. He has no interest in reality.

sharper

dfx- wrote: »

Yeah, I'm sure there's someone who could respond working today at the NTA if you email every address.. .

I'd probably have started with general enquiries though?

Goldengirl

This post has been deleted.

CatInABox

Jarrett Walker has a piece in the Times.co.uk today, giving a defense of the plan, but mainly ending with telling people to go and read the plan for themselves.

Normally, I don't quote the full article, as it's against both the rules and my own morals, however, I will make an exception in this case, as it's so relevant to the conversation here. I do ask however, that you click on this link, so that the times.co.uk gets something, anything out of this.

The National Transport Authority released a planned redesign of the Dublin bus network this month. The guiding principle is simple: Dublin does not have room for more cars, so it needs more people to use public transport.

To achieve that, public transport must offer more freedom. Under the plan, which my firm designed with the NTA and local experts, the average Dubliner would be able to travel 20 per cent farther within 30 minutes. That means more freedom: more jobs they could hold, more schools to choose from, more places to shop, more things to do.

Just hours after the report was released, misinformed panic started spreading. By now, many Dubliners must believe that our plan makes life worse for every bus passenger.

That’s nonsense. The plan does propose changes to how some trips are made. Some may go a different way, with a different route number. For some trips, you will need to change buses, or from a bus to Luas or Dart, but for the vast majority of existing bus journeys, even those requiring a change, the new network will get you there faster.

We must also think about people who aren’t using the buses now. One pensioner told me: “I have grandchildren all over Dublin, but I don’t see them much because it takes too long to get there.” We must care about him too, and about all the people who are driving cars at the moment because public transport is useless to them.

One much-defended feature of today’s service is that practically everyone has a direct bus to O’Connell Street. That means a huge number of overlapping routes, which means that most of them don’t come very often. All those routes produce staggering complexity. Want to go from O’Connell Street to Drumcondra? Just take the 1, 11, 13, 16, 33, 41, 41c or 44. Try explaining that to a visitor or to someone taking the bus for the first time.

Today’s buses are useless for many trips that don’t go through the centre. Want to go from Clongriffin to Beaumont Hospital, or from Celbridge to Citywest, or from Sandyford to Dún Laoghaire, or from Blanchardstown to Liffey Valley? Such trips are virtually impossible. The plan addresses these problems.

Now, everything depends on your comments. We’ll make changes in response to good ideas, and if the feedback is too negative, the plan might not happen at all.

So don’t believe rumours. Look at the plan yourself, at busconnects.ie. Explore where you could go. Then tell us what you think.

Again, please click on this link to give the times a page hit.

Mods, if this goes too far, please snip it, or let me know and I'll edit it out/down, thanks.