BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

MJohnston

Goldengirl wrote: »

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Yeah, the NTA have really messed up by not having an app that lets you compare your old and new route options side-by-side. It has allowed some disinformation to spread on Twitter and at public meetings, sadly.

Goldengirl

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cgcsb

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, the NTA have really messed up by not having an app that lets you compare your old and new route options side-by-side. It has allowed some disinformation to spread on Twitter and at public meetings, sadly.

If the NTA launched an app and start engaging with people on twitter there'd be complaints that not everyone can use apps or twitter.

MJohnston

Goldengirl wrote: »

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Download Chapter 7 of the Full report here:
https://busconnects.ie/media/1239/chapter7recommendednetworkplan.pdf

Then open the PDF in Acrobat or something that lets you zoom in (the PDFs are vector, so you can zoom in as far as you want).

Page 77 shows the Existing Network (some limited services are not on this though, in which case I just switch to Dublin Bus' site for the route maps) and then 78 is the Proposed Network, which lets you see more clearly the replacement routes in a particular area.

Page 139 shows the frequency and hours of service graphics for the Spines and Spine Branches. Page 140 shows the same for the Orbital and Radial routes. Page 141 shows the same for the local services.

Pages 142-145 show a series of proposed "peak only" routes which aren't shown on the Proposed Network Map, and includes their operating times.

MJohnston

cgcsb wrote: »

If the NTA launched an app and start engaging with people on twitter there'd be complaints that not everyone can use apps or twitter.

Of course, but it'd be so much easier to debunk false claims!

dublinman1990

When the public attend the public consultations with the NTA in August & September; I would largely expect them to distribute information leaflets to the public with clear & concise information in about how the bus routes will be changed for their relevant area in Dublin. If the NTA are going to bring more emphasis with displaying the existing & proposed network maps to the public; they can show them to the public to give them a clear understanding of what is being changed overall in their own bus network.

People who attend local meetings beforehand who had initially rejected the plan may have hopes of their changing their mind once they would see the new plans in full. But from my own perspective; I don't know how far that impact will be spread to most people in a positive way once they see the full plans right in front of them. It does show to us how the power of the Irish public will do or say at large in what they define as what will be good or bad for them in this new plan for redesigning the bus network. It is going to become a huge task for the NTA to sell this plan to the public if they are not being seen to be selling it in the way that they should do.

If people have any concerns at all about BusConnects; they should, to the best of their ability, communicate by any means possible with the NTA about this plan. I say that because if the people do not give their feedback to the plan in a suitable amount of time; it will be too late for you to say or change things about it. These public consultations should have the ability and capacity to discuss with far more people which should take into account a much larger sample of the public when compared to what was being posted about the choices report was on the BusConnects website. In real terms; 12,000 or 1% of the Dublin population posted submissions online when the choices report was published last year. These public consultations could pull in way more than that what was sent in through the website. That is why these public consultations are vital to the NTA. They are seen to make a huge difference to the public because they have the ability to pull more in more people than expected. That is what will make this plan sink or swim in my opinion.

In August; the NTA will be having these consultations in selected Shopping Centres dotted around all over Dublin as their starting point. Think of the amount of people who go to their stand & think about the potential for even more dialogue with the public than expected. Also think what will happen when September comes around when more public consultations are announced; they can take place in civic buildings all across the 4 local authorities in Dublin which brings in a huge stack of more people than expected to bring about changes to the plan.

This is once in a generation change for our bus network in Dublin. It is not possible to ignore the NTA if want to see the plans for yourself. It is of vital importance if you have to engage with the NTA if want to see what is happening to the bus network from your area in Dublin.

If people are not that fussed about the plan; well tough luck. You will lose out if you personally don't engage with the positive aspects of it.

If you do engage with it by ignoring the detractors of the plan; well that will be great. Good for you. You will be a big help if you try.

Goldengirl

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LeinsterDub

sharper wrote: »

I'd probably have started with general enquiries though?

It's an issue out how the plan is being portrayed in the media . Media@ seemed the most logical

LeinsterDub

Goldengirl wrote: »

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https://busconnects.ie/media/1239/chapter7recommendednetworkplan.pdf

Page 139 onwards

SPDUB

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Can anyone see a difference between these?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=456797&d=1532681676
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=456798&d=1532681682

Well glancing at it for 2 minutes

The 122 is gone entirely

Nass Rd and Tyrconnell Rd which had 3 buses along it's length now has only 1

3 routes going down Drimnagh Road and Crumlin Rd is now only 2

Route 17 appears not to go to Rialto any more

That's all the easy to spot changes by just looking at the map .

Now there may be better frequencies for the remaining routes and overall it's going to be better transport options but they are not obvious from just looking at the map

LeinsterDub

SPDUB wrote: »

Well glancing at it for 2 minutes

The 122 is gone entirely

Nass Rd and Tyrconnell Rd which had 3 buses along it's length now has only 1

3 routes going down Drimnagh Road and Crumlin Rd is now only 2

Route 17 appears not to go to Rialto any more

That's all the easy to spot changes by just looking at the map .

Now there may be better frequencies for the remaining routes and overall it's going to be better transport options but they are not obvious from just looking at the map

You need to remember / understand when looking at these maps they are maps of frequency the darker (red) the higher the frequency

122 appears to be the one road with a loss of a bus . I didn't see it before
"3 routes going down Drimnagh Road and Crumlin Rd is now only 2" are replace with extremely high frequency, that darkest red or red
"Route 17 appears not to go to Rialto any more" Is replaced with S2/O/F3 there is no direct replace it would depend on your destination .

Qrt

I'm working in Germany for the summer, shop job. Anyway I just had a german fella ask where I'm from, and when I said Dublin, he immediately said he's been in Dublin four times for work and that it's a nightmare to get around. So our shocking PT network seems to be relatively well known.

bk

CatInABox wrote: »

Jarrett Walker has a piece in the Times.co.uk today:

this link:

Jarrett Walker:
"Want to go from O’Connell Street to Drumcondra? Just take the 1, 11, 13, 16, 33, 41, 41c or 44. Try explaining that to a visitor or to someone taking the bus for the first time.."

Hi, Jarrett seems like you are reading my posts here on boards!

SPDUB

LeinsterDub wrote: »

"Route 17 appears not to go to Rialto any more" Is replaced with S2/O/F3 there is no direct replace it would depend on your destination .

Well then route 17 is entirely lost from Dolphins Barn since now you either have to walk to Rialto or somewhere on Herberton Rd or Sundrive Rd to catch S2 which would only take you to the end of Sundrive Road before having to change bus

So that means if you are using the 17 from Dolphins Barn/ Rialto to UCD Belfield what was one bus now is going to be at least 2 if not 3

Stephen15

SPDUB wrote: »

Nass Rd and Tyrconnell Rd which had 3 buses along it's length now has only 1

3 routes going down Drimnagh Road and Crumlin Rd is now only 2

Route 17 appears not to go to Rialto any more

That's all the easy to spot changes by just looking at the map.

The Naas and Tyrconnell Roads will be served by the D spine which will be two different routes the D2 and D3 operating at a frequency of every 5 mins along the thick dark red line the narrower lines are where they branch off. One thing I don't understand why is there a D2 and D3 but no D1 it should be D1 and D2 surely, is this a typo?

The existing orbitals are being replaced by more frequent and more direct orbitals. The 17 is being replaced in and around Rialto by the S2 which will run every 20 minutes from Sandymount to Hueston instead of the half hourly 17.

SPDUB

"Want to go from O’Connell Street to Drumcondra? Just take the 1, 11, 13, 16, 33, 41, 41c or 44. Try explaining that to a visitor or to someone taking the bus for the first time.

That's easy cause I have done it for my area

Walk to Crumlin Rd and get on any bus that comes along

Walk to Dolphins Barn and have even more choice .

Very easy to explain though not fair to other parts of the city

Stephen15

SPDUB wrote: »

That's easy cause I have done it for my area

Walk to Crumlin Rd and get on any bus that comes along

Walk to Dolphins Barn and have even more choice .

Very easy to explain though not fair to other parts of the city

But what do you say when coming from the opposite direction?

devnull

SPDUB wrote: »

That's easy cause I have done it for my area

Walk to Crumlin Rd and get on any bus that comes along

Walk to Dolphins Barn and have even more choice .

Very easy to explain though not fair to other parts of the city

The idea that you can say that if you go to a bus stop just get any bus of what may be half a dozen routes to get to your destination kinda sums up the issues we have with the current network though really doesn't it?

Somewhere can have a large number of bus routes passing their door that all go to the same places, whereas other places nearby they may have nowhere to get to.

Although telling anyone to get any bus doesn't work in the CC!

Qrt

Stephen15 wrote: »

The Naas and Tyrconnell Roads will be served by the D spine which will be two different routes the D2 and D3 operating at a frequency of every 5 mins along the thick dark red line the narrower lines are where they branch off. One thing I don't understand why is there a D2 and D3 but no D1 it should be D1 and D2 surely, is this a typo?

The existing orbitals are being replaced by more frequent and more direct orbitals. The 17 is being replaced in and around Rialto by the S2 which will run every 20 minutes from Sandymount to Hueston instead of the half hourly 17.

D1 stops at Crumlin Hospital and the D2 is the de facto replacement for the 27, heads up the Greenhills Road to Tallaght Village, Town Centre, then up to the Jober.

LeinsterDub

SPDUB wrote: »

Well then route 17 is entirely lost from Dolphins Barn since now you either have to walk to Rialto or somewhere on Herberton Rd or Sundrive Rd to catch S2 which would only take you to the end of Sundrive Road before having to change bus

So that means if you are using the 17 from Dolphins Barn/ Rialto to UCD Belfield what was one bus now is going to be at least 2 if not 3

Can you be clearer as to where you're starting your journey

It's two o to the e

SPDUB

Stephen15 wrote: »

The Naas and Tyrconnell Roads will be served by the D spine

While that's true for the Nass Rd it's not true for Tyroconnel Road which will just have the 63 down from the current 3 routes

The idea that you can say that if you go to a bus stop just get any bus of what may be half a dozen routes to get to your destination kinda sums up the issues we have with the current network though really doesn't it?

Somewhere can have a large number of bus routes passing their door that all go to the same places, whereas other places nearby they may have nowhere to get to.

Although telling anyone to get any bus doesn't work in the CC!

As I said it's not fair but sorry Jarret bad example its quite easy to explain even to a visitor

IIRC correctly there used to be even more in the past .

From Dolphins Barn you could get on 50 50a 56 56a 19 19a 20 22 22a

Qrt

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Can you be clearer as to where you're starting your journey

It's two o to the e

Most logical way for me under proposed plan would be to get the O to any B bus which all go to UCD. Both would be less than every ten minutes. Not sure exactly where you are but that sounds like an improvement to me if traveling from near the Rialto Luas stop or Dolphin House area.

SPDUB

Stephen15 wrote: »

But what do you say when coming from the opposite direction?

Well you do have to mention route numbers and where their stops are but essentially it's the same heading back to the area

Stephen15

SPDUB wrote: »

So that means if you are using the 17 from Dolphins Barn/ Rialto to UCD Belfield what was one bus now is going to be at least 2 if not 3

Someone going between those two destinations would likely be quicker getting two buses anyway. With these proposals they won't have to go into the city centre to change as they can change in Leeson Street if they're using the O to the E to UCD or Donnybook is using the S2 and then taking the E.

LeinsterDub

Qrt wrote: »

Most logical way for me under proposed plan would be to get the O to any B bus which all go to UCD. Both would be less than every ten minutes. Not sure exactly where you are but that sounds like an improvement to me if traveling from near the Rialto Luas stop or Dolphin House area.

Sorry your correct. Checked the map on my phone

LeinsterDub

SPDUB wrote: »

From Dolphins Barn you could get on 50 50a 56 56a 19 19a 20 22 22a

Which is simpler get x spine or get X, y, z, a, b, c, d2 or d3?

devnull

SPDUB wrote: »

From Dolphins Barn you could get on 50 50a 56 56a 19 19a 20 22 22a

Yeah, because you're really going to remember that long list aren't you?

I read it for 10 seconds and looked away from the screen and I forgot some of them now.

Stephen15

SPDUB wrote: »

While that's true for the Nass Rd it's not true for Tyroconnel Road which will just have the 63 down from the current 3 routes

One end has the D3 in easy walking distance and and the other end has the G spine in easy walking distance.

Goldengirl

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SPDUB

devnull wrote: »

Yeah, because you're really going to remember that long list aren't you?

I read it for 10 seconds and looked away from the screen and I forgot some of them now.

Well it wouldn't matter remembering them since as I said some of them are historic routes and you can get on any bus that passes by

Stephen15 wrote: »

With these proposals they won't have to go into the city centre to change as they can change in Leeson Street if they're using the O to the E to UCD or Donnybook is using the S2 and then taking the E.

The current 17 doesn't go into the city centre so I'm not sure what you are talking about .