BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

bikeman1

What annoys me is inbound for example on the Swords Rd. they have a “scheduled” delay on routes that are all going to the same place and terminating in town, 1, 33, 41s with a high frequency. There’s really no need to stop at Whitehall inbound for 2 minutes when there is a bus every 4 or 5 minutes along there.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938092#Comment_121938092

We will never introduce car bans though, thats the point.

The traffic will not evaporate because 90%+ of the road space will always be used by cars and shared with buses.

It will be a slow crawl towards an underground, but my point is that we will never see a maorr switch away from cars until we have an Underground in Dublin.

If anything, the number of cars on the road in Dublin is increasing. The amount of tailbacks now...at all time and all over the city.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121938571#Comment_121938571

Im not seeing any reduction at all in car traffic in South Dublin. Quite the opposite in fact.

Those exclusive bus lanes are great, but are few and far between and they will always represent only a small minority of road space.

Small gains on a limited amount of routes, sure. But improvements will hit capacity quickly because there are only so many exclusive bus lanes in the city and that wont change.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939024#Comment_121939024

Grand, but I presume it costs money to facilitate and conduct a JR, so my question is if the plaintiffs lose the JR are they liable for costs?

Likewise if the JR is upheld- are TII or NTA or whoever liable for costs as the Judge has deemed them in breach of planning?

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939024#Comment_121939024

Yes, the people bringing the JR are saying that there's a constitutional issue surrounding their property rights. Presumably they're going to argue that there NTA can't do something on public property that impacts in their private property due to the cost proximity.

Seems a bit of a stretch to me, but as you say, our courts are a law unto themselves (quite literally)

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939822#Comment_121939822

It will be a while before these "exclusive" bus lanes reach capacity. Plenty more room in the city for additional "exclusive" bus lanes, especially on the south side.

Exclusive bus lanes are not a long term replacement for Metro lines, they are far from 'at capacity' in large areas of the city.

The Mathematician

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939631#Comment_121939631

It has also got to be remembered that one of the reasons for running to a timetable is to avoid bunching. This is especially important for the spines. We want a bus every 5 minutes, not wait for 15 minutes and then have 3 buses show up at once.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940351#Comment_121940351

Realistically, how much more road space will be designated as exclusive bus lanes and what percentage is that of the overall road space.

If circa 3% or 4% of total road space is bus lane only, there is no incentive for car drivers to switch to bus, because 96% or 97% of road space is shared with the bus and the car is faster and more direct.

I just dont see a scenario where 50%+ of road space is designated bus only, even if we only take into account arterial routes.

Therefore, an underground with 100% exclusive track network is the only solution, if we want to see a real adoption of public transport.

Make the alternative better than, not slower than, the contemporary.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939067#Comment_121939067

Ya know the leaflets they put in your post box

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940118#Comment_121940118

I don't know who's funding it but yes it does cost a lot of money

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939813#Comment_121939813

There have been numerous car bans in Dublin and more planned this year.

The number of cars is not increasing quite the opposite as the canal cordon count shows.

Traffic evaporation is real no matter how much you deny it

TranslatorPS

Going back to last page's discussion regarding timings, I'm going to laugh at anyone that thinks that the old method of "start at x and hope for the best" was any good. It was the shoddiest capital city service west of the Bug river sans maybe some of the Mediterranean countries.

At the same time the NTA overshot completely by measuring punctuality at every stop along the route. There are two things to be considered here: first of all, no bus should ever depart early from anywhere, second of all, there's no reason to penalise for every stop. A common practice elsewhere is to penalise at timing points only. Those should be roughly around 5 to 8 minutes apart in off-peak timings, and that's pretty much what you might find in the pdf timetables posted by Go-Ahead on their website. Of course there is also another aspect to this: frequent routes that are assessed at gap between buses level rather than individual trip adherence – but those are assessed at route level, not corridor level, as someone had mentioned the 1 and 41s in Whitehall.

Another thing to wonder about is why NTA penalise on early departures from drop-off stops where there are no more pick-up stops afterwards (this is more to do with commuter services). Now that's a whole other level of ridiculous.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941239#Comment_121941239

You’d have to wonder who is funding a JR for a few cottages……….

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940246#Comment_121940246

But who is bankrolling the JR is the question.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121941322#Comment_121941322

In principle, what the NTA is doing is correct. But there should be more allowance for early running. If a bus can be five minutes late without a fine, then there's no reason why the same shouldn't apply to early running. It's not unreasonable to expect people to arrive at a bus stop five minutes before their bus is due to leave.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942728#Comment_121942728

I have to totally disagree with you on this.

Early running is a complete no-no in my book for any public transport. You either have a timetable or you don’t. We all know buses can be late for a variety of reasons, but they should never be leaving early. It is down to the schedulers getting realistic timetables in place to deliver that.

But what we do have now is just lazy with (from my experience) GAI drivers in particular regularly leaving termini up to 5 or 6 mins late because the running times they got from the NTA are too generous - it makes a complete mockery of the timetable.

Why is there no effort to fix the running times? Someone isn’t doing their job correctly.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943049#Comment_121943049

It's not the fault of the schedulers. To fix the running times, they'd need a different schedule for each individual weekday. What works on a Tuesday evening does not work on a Friday. Thursday afternoons are busy, because loads of people get paid and all go shopping at the same time. Wednesday afternoons in certain areas are quiet, because schools finish early. Fewer people seem to go to work on Monday mornings than on Tuesdays. When it's raining, even more kids get driven to school.

Unfortunately, the speed of bus journeys is dictated by private car owners. There needs to be more effort to force people out of their cars - and also incentivise the purchase and manufacture of smaller ones, because they've grown too large for both our streets and for most drivers' abilities.

Expecting buses to run no more than a minute early is great in theory, but it doesn't work.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943195#Comment_121943195

There are certainly GAI routes (Southbound W4 and W61/W62 in particular spring to mind, and others) where the schedules are far too generous any day of the week.

I’ve been on W4 buses which left Blanchardstown late, have been driven at a speed which I would consider dangerously slow along the M50 because the running times are too generous and then sat at Liffey Valley to get back on time. That’s a nonsense.

If drivers are deliberately not leaving their terminus until 5 mins later than the scheduled departure time because they’ll just crawl along and make the time up, then there is a problem with the timetable.

That’s just shoddy scheduling and allowing a bad practice develop.

KD345

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940692#Comment_121940692

If only this was the case. The new Bus Connects spines have already had their timetables altered causing them to bunch at shared points across the route. Some routes on the C Spine are now scheduled to arrive within a minute of each other in Lucan and then have gaps.

The schedules on the C Spine seem to have changed some time ago meaning the timetables on stops and online are no longer accurate.

tnegun

Here, here, I use the W61 pretty regularly and the waiting en route/padding is crazy yesterday for example the 7:45 to Hazelhatch departed at 7:58 and we still would have been early to Hazelhatch only it drove at 20 kph from Celbridge to Hazelhatch. This evening on the way home the controller told the driver to wait at the second last stop to get back on schedule!! They also occasionally wait at pretty poor stops and create traffic as nothing can get past while they kill 60 seconds. I know it's mid-term right now but the timetable seems to have been designed around the worst possible timings.

bikeman1

I think that they should be allowed to run up to 3 minutes early between the key timing points.

What happened this morning is that my 41C was crawling along and then had “long slow stop” on a stretch of road with a 101 BÉ behind not able to get around. Then another bus behind that.

At that point of the Swords Rd they should all just run into town if that’s their terminus. I never notice any holding outbound, so the timings are good there.

We all know that some days when it rains, and it is a Wednesday in winter, the schedule will struggle, but that’s acceptable everything churns slowly. Buses shouldn’t be timed to the slowest possible day, but more the average. A bit of padding at the end of the route would allow for the next service to depart on time or for duties to break or finish.

Polar101

I've wondered what's the point of putting a timing point towards the end of the route - I was on a bus which was about 10 minutes from the terminus when we got the "there will be a short delay to put the bus back on time". We waited 5 minutes and then continued on, of course no-one got on after that so it felt like everyone's time was wasted.

Pale Red

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943832#Comment_121943832

While not related to BC, I had a similar experience a few weeks ago on a 70. There was an announcement that J4 (Clonee exit) on the N3 was blocked and there would be a detour. The bus waited about five minutes at the stop after J2 (last stop before reaching J4) and then proceeded to take J3 and a ten minute detour. I was sitting near the driver and didn't hear any instructions on the radio for the detour route - I think it must have been ahead of schedule at J2.

dfx-

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943289#Comment_121943289

As someone who might 'BusConnect' between the C4 and L54 in Lucan, the times don't match. Eastbound the L54 arrives before especially the C4 and westbound arrives just after. Routes with a lot of bus lanes. The C3 and C4 being long routes with heavy loads and poor frequency can't be hanging around to facilitate the connection.

There isn't a 'BusConnection' as much as three routes that pass by the same stops. With up to 30 mins wait if you are the wrong side of it, it's not viable.

trellheim

Hit my inbox today . 16 months for ABP decision.

Dear Community Forum Member,   

This is a no-reply email address. Please feel free to email queries to cbc@busconnects.ie

We are emailing you to provide a status update in relation to the BusConnects Dublin Core Bus Corridors specifically the Ballymun/Finglas to City Centre Core Bus Corridor Scheme.

The NTA applied to An Bord Pleanála in September of 2022 for approval of the Scheme under Section 51(2) of the Roads Act 1993 (as amended), along with a submission for confirmation of the associated Compulsory Purchase Order.

An Bord Pleanála has now issued its decisions, being to approve the Scheme, subject to conditions, and to confirm the Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO).  A copy of the Scheme approval is available here and a copy of the CPO confirmation here.

Following An Bord Pleanála’s determinations, various public notices and notifications are required to be issued and this will be published/issued at the appropriate time.

BusGuy

I did the full S4 route today, and to be honest, in my opinion, it's pretty much a ripoff. See, Liffey Valley S.C. has a hub, which for the first time I was quite shocked to see it you have a sound proof glass in the waiting room, but UCD bus park (not the 142 terminus, well it also kinda is) is very outdated. Of course the plan for Bus Connects is to make as much hubs as possible, but I think the point of the southern orbitals is to make UCD connected, and to make UCD a bus hub.

What also was weird that there was the driver on the S4 today he was about to do a driver change on the Long Mile Road, but he turned off the engine on a point where it doesn't say to turn off the engine, so a woman got off, cause she checked on Google Maps and it turned out the S4 I was on was late. Of course no rush for me, but she probably had an appointment or something but that's not all. Another S4 appeared out of nowhere, apparently not doing a driver change, picked up the woman, and turned right on Long Mile Rd. While my S4 gone straight. I checked TFI Live to check if it was actually an S4, and it was because the other S4 was ahead of my S4. So, drivers have found a little of a shortcut.

The biggest impact for locals is the E spine because of course one of the biggest routes in Dublin the 46A has their own song. Removing the 46A with all the other routes would be non-logical because it is a busy route, high freq., the biggest user of the VT's before the PA'S, and more reasons.

I think it is a good decision the re-use the ex-18 bus stop in Crumlin, it certainly had no people use the bus stop.

Ireland trains

Greystones local election candidate saying routes L1, L2 & L3 to be operated by GAI.

Article also mentions Q3 for implementation, in line with July rumours.

https://wicklownews.net/2024/04/bus-connects-changes-for-greystones-now-planned-for-later-in-2024/

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980965#Comment_121980965

I believe the N2 will be operated by GAI also.

dublinman1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980788#Comment_121980788

How late was your S4 bus yesterday?

I'm not familiar with the route myself but does it loop around the Long Mile Road in both directions when the route goes to either UCD or Liffey Valley SC?

Your earlier point about the UCD interchange is that it will be built as part of the infrastructure changes which are separate projects for BusConnects Dublin. Those separate projects are the CBC's (the core bus corridors). The UCD hub interchange will not be built until the planning application for the Bray to City Centre Core Bus corridor is formally approved by ABP. It will then go to out tender for construction after it gets approval from ABP.

It also won't be built alongside the construction of the Blackrock/Belfield Bus Corridor. The planning application for the Blackrock/Belfield corridor only got approval from ABP in late March. Both of these corridors have to be built alongside one of the other 10 CBCs located in other parts of Dublin. The NTA have said that this move is being done as a way to alleviate pressure on cars and other vehicle traffic going on the various road networks around the Greater Dublin Region.

Your other point about the upcoming cancellation of the 46a is that the E Spine will provide 24 hour routes on the N11 corridor. It will provide a more superior bus service as opposed to services offered on the 46a from Dún Laoghaire and the 145/155 from Bray. The 4 from Monkstown Avenue will cover part of the 145 route from O'Connell Bridge to Heuston Station under these changes. The 11 from Sandyford will take over part of the 46a route from O'Connell St to Infirmary Road.

The upcoming changes for the 4 and the 11 to take place in July are temporary in nature.

It's the exact same arrangement that you see with the 1 from Shanard Road to Shaw Street in the City Centre. The changes to those routes are a stop-gap measure until they get replaced with new routes in later phases of the BusConnects Bus Network Redesign in the near future.

I think the song you are referring to is "Summer in Dublin". It is a good song. I have heard it loads of times over the years.

But things in Dublin have to change for the better if we want to get a better public transport system for the city.

thomasj

Am I the only one that's wondering what the point of having a bus lane on the North Quays?

This morning there were times that the car lane moved while those in the bus lane just stopped still.

It was the same last week during the school break .

Add to that that buses stopped at stops to get back on time and then once they got into town they were late because of this bad traffic . Absolute nightmare.

When you're stuck in a bus lane for 10 minutes you know things are bad.