BusConnects Dublin - Big changes to Bus Network

Daith

But is there an actual difference between a private and public footpath outside their houses?

A lot of them are happy enough to park cars on the footpath, so I'm sure they think it's their private property.

CatInABox

While it's not ideal having a stop right outside these cottages, people won't really be hanging around too long there.

At that point, all the buses stopping there are going to the same destination, the city centre, so anyone standing there will be getting in the first bus that arrives, no matter what it is. Frequency is meant to be every for minutes, so average wait time of two minutes.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911514#Comment_121911514

Well yeah but there'll be a constant flow of people all day long, including groups of teenagers etc. After seeing how the residents have handled this one, which appears to be motivated by car access, it's hard to have any sympathy for them.

As you've rightly pointed out, they're now using the lack of a shelter as a reason for JR but they explicitly didn't want one. They must still be hoping the current stops can be retained, however that ship has sailed. At best they should now just push for a shelter. The houses face north so it's not as if it's blocking sunlight!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911514#Comment_121911514

Not quite - if they’re using the D-Spine to go cross-city or go closer to O’Connell Bridge they’ll be leaving the 20 and 21 pass by as they will terminate at the eastern end of Talbot Street.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911497#Comment_121911497

By having cars parked outside their houses, people walking past are forced to walk that bit closer to the houses than they would normally, which would rather negate the complaint about people waiting outside them for buses to an extent.

Daith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911555#Comment_121911555

Exactly. They mention in their judicial review that a bus stop might impact people with disabilities or buggies, which is fair, but completely leave out the car park they have out front

Jayuu

Can I ask a question about the big network map? What are the routes in PURPLE supposed to be? There's no key on the map.

VG31

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121928108#Comment_121928108

Purple = radial routes (less frequent and normally less direct than spines)

Red = spines

Blue = orbitals

Green = local

Orange = express/peak-only routes

https://busconnects.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/a3-frequency-tables-061020-fa.pdf

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911089#Comment_121911089

It’s not a grey area at all.

Either the pathway is public or private.

I'll bet it’s public and always has been since all the current occupants moved in.

And if it is public, they should be informed that any mention of them engaging in “informal parking” will result in prosecutions.

Under no circumstances should these hearings be allowed to be swayed by scum indulging in unsafe motoring and law breaking.

I’d expect the likes of FFFG to have their councillors speak up on this as they are the parties of law and order, right?

Hippodrome Song Owl

What is the process for reviewing a route timetable in terms of intermediate stops times? Is it ever going to happen? Buses should not routinely be having "a short delay to get the bus back on schedule". This should be the exception not the norm. In particular, X routes should not routinely be sitting at stops - very often they are then caught up in bad traffic further along the route and end up late anyway. Incredibly frustrating.

A separate but related issue - but it surely cannot be the plan to have every bus sit at stops along the route during school holidays? I spent a total of 10 minutes sitting at various stops on the C4 this morning between Celbridge and Liffey Valley. So while car drivers get to benefit from the light traffic, us bus users still have to leave early during the school breaks as the bus is going to sit there sticking to the published schedule.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936288#Comment_121936288

Dublin bus used to implement summer timetables for the likes of the 46a, 9, etc. to account for the different loading patterns with the schools off. Don't think they've done that since COVID though.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936436#Comment_121936436

It was never such a big issue beforehand, as buses only stuck to their departure time. I get the value of sticking to the schedule in general, but this means the scheduled running time needs to be realistic in the first place, and there needs to be some allowance for school breaks with dramatically reduced traffic.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936466#Comment_121936466

That’s very difficult to do just for the two Easter weeks now given that the loadings will change each day with WFH. Monday and Friday are always quieter.

If you’re getting on a bus mid-route and it’s already passed by ahead of schedule you won’t be very happy (and that includes the X routes).

They do change the running times for the summer months - they just don’t tell people!

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936490#Comment_121936490

I get the bus mid route. I was happier with taking my chances tbh. And with live tracking on the app now it should be less of an issue.

Also, this is a daily issue on several routes. The scheduled times are wildly off.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936502#Comment_121936502

Well the bus service is there for everyone and not just yourself. There has to be a balance with this and Saturday schedules won’t work over Easter as far more people are working. Tomorrow and Wednesday buses will take longer. People connecting between routes need buses to run to the timetable.

I’d advise contacting the BusConnects team at info@nationaltransport.ie to get them to address general running time issues (not Easter).

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936621#Comment_121936621

Thanks for the contact but as ever you manage to be so condescending in your response. This issue is one people are complaining about regularly on twitter and in person. It's obviously not just about me. I also happen to connect between routes around 6-8 times a day at least. I m also well ware of the different traffic loads mid week. I spend half my day on the bus. I think I'm better placed than most to consider how widespread this issue is and how much it is pissing people off!

Midnight_EG

As a driver... Please report it :)

ITV2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937008#Comment_121937008

But we all know the Pressit box is always right, and central don't care.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937008#Comment_121937008

I will! It's absolutely no fault of the drivers I know. I heard the C4 driver this morning being told over the radio three times to pull in and wait between Celbridge main street and Liffey Valley.

Surely sticking to individual stop times is less necessary than ever with live tracking? Could they not pick a couple of key points along the route and just get back on track there (or nearest safe stop beforehand) and still have each end of the route benefit from light traffic at least.

But I really don't see how difficult it could be to have term time and holiday time running time schedules that apply on pre-publshhed dates of the universally known school breaks - at the very least the established full holidays of Halloween, Christmas, Easter, Summer (at least July-Aug).

tom1ie

So is there definitely going to be a request for a JR?

If there is a request does the JR have to happen?

How much does it cost to get a JR through the courts, my question being who is funding this JR?

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911497#Comment_121911497

The solution is to put up a row of bollards to prevent parking on the pavement thus eliminating problems for the “wheel chair users/baby buggy pushers” and convert the pavement into a combined pavement/cycle path - plus add a bus shelter at the proposed new stop, so there’s no basis for the “exposed to the elements” argument.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936814#Comment_121936814

Sorry I wasn’t trying to be condescending at all - I tend to reply in factual terms.

I was referring to the Easter issue in my first line and replying to your saying that you were happier taking your chances - I’m merely saying that not everyone will have the same view and may want the schedule to be adhered to over these two weeks.

The wider regular waiting time issue (outside of Easter) where the schedule is too generous is what I was referring to when I suggested you get in touch with the NTA.

The BusConnects people in the NTA aren’t involved in the day to day operations and getting on to them might force the operators to fix the schedules.

It annoys me as a passenger as much as anyone else.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937314#Comment_121937314

As I said earlier, tomorrow and Wednesday will have heavier loads at peak times and therefore longer journey times - how to make allowances for that is next to near impossible.

Christmas is straightforward - they have Saturday schedules, but they wouldn’t be sufficient for this fortnight as far more people are using the bus.

It’s a really large undertaking for the schedulers to recast the timetables as they have to do every single stop for every single departure.

As I posted earlier, they do change the running times for the school summer holidays - they just tend not to announce it.

The NTA measure punctuality at every single stop and the companies get penalised for early or late running. It’s a daft way of measuring it (everywhere else uses certain designated stops) but that’s the way they want to do it.

bk

The NTA measure punctuality at every single stop and the companies get penalised for early or late running. It’s a daft way of measuring it (everywhere else uses certain designated stops) but that’s the way they want to do it.

Yes, that would seem sensible. The old way of just the departure/arrival was too little, but now they may have overshot with every stop. Every couple of stops or certain important stops (particularly busy ones / interchange stops, etc.) would seem like a good middle point.

I think it makes a difference on how frequent the route is.

If your route is every 30 minutes, then it is a big deal if you just missed the bus which was 2 minutes early. If the bus is every 10 minutes and certainly if closer to every 5 minutes, then you probably won't mind so much if you just miss it. In fact, when you get down to sub 10 minute frequencies, people tend to stop looking at timetables and just turn up and go.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937314#Comment_121937314

And still, some folks tell us car traffic "evaporates" when bus networks are introduced/expanded...These examples just go to show how utterly dependant buses are on car volumes in Dublin.

I sympathise with your issue. Must be very frustrating.

We need an Underground network, if we are ever going to move the city to public transport.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937983#Comment_121937983

I think you misunderstand what traffic evaporation means.

Traffic doesn't evaporate simply because you add more buses, traffic evaporates when you ban cars from a street and instead give the space over to dedicated bus lanes, cycle lanes, etc.

The reality is we have done very little or no actual car bans. A relatively small amount of space has been given to some dedicated bus lanes, but even then in a pretty half hearted manner, with the bus lanes disappearing where it gets too hard and basically no bus lane enforcement.

Of course I'd love to see more Metro lines, but that is simply unrealistic in the short term. And even in cities with extensive Metro systems, they still also have extensive dedicated bus/tram/cycle lanes and lots of car bans.

Ironically how fast buses move during holidays is actually proof that we should do more to reduce cars and free up more space for buses.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937983#Comment_121937983

Traffic evaporation is a well understood and proven phenomena. Take the 24/7 bus lanes which they've introduced along Drumcondra and Finglas in the last few months. There are, without doubt, a lot less cars in the bus lanes and buses are, without doubt, running faster.

With fewer cars using the bus lanes, you'd expect traffic in the main lane to be worse, but it's not. I've found general traffic to be moving better along Drumcondra Rd since the lanes went 24/7.

cgcsb

Got some FF propaganda in the door about the E spine and N2 starting quarter 2 of this year but still no more specific date, or month even and q2 starts next Tuesday.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937382#Comment_121937382

The court decides if there is grounds for a JR, and not liking the outcome isn't sufficient, the plaintiff needs to demonstrate that the process was flawd or some law has been broken. In this case after 3 rounds of public consultation, I don't see how a court could accept such an argument but you never know.

Unfortunately we live in a legal system where a competent planning authority has granted permission for a development but a judge overturns it because the judge, with no planning background or training, thinks the development is too tall.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939012#Comment_121939012

Propaganda?