BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115118#Comment_119115118

Alternatively, you could go the other way and instead of having the H Spine just have 3 radials timetabled together (2,3,5). After all, all spines are supposed to be cross-city, so it wouldn't make sense to have the H-Spine in its current state. By that logic, the 86/87/88 should've been turned into an "I-Spine"

Also, there aren't any good places you could join the H-Spine with . Joining it with the extremely long 86/87/88 would be amusing, though that would make for a very long spine that would suffer from lack of bus prioritisation in the northern stretch, and as a result would have very bad reliability. Heuston would be out of the question. The most likely place is "maybe" Crumlin Hospital via Clanbrassil Street, S Circular Road and Clogher Road, though that would be really stretching it, plus the D-Spine will also serve it, so it would be kinda pointless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115124#Comment_119115124

Doesn't really serve the two schools, you'd be looking at a decent walk backwards from McKee or else walking from Ballymun Road/Collins Avenue which by that stage you'd be better walking the whole distance. 220 no good for further down Santry either.

220 anyway is a disaster. Loads of deviations to placate locals which left it with no real purpose. It'll be gone when the Blanch area changes afaik.

LXFlyer

The 220 isn’t a “disaster”, it’s a local community bus service - if you used it you’d see that it’s used for multiple local journeys along the route.

Any bus network needs direct services as well as local community bus services.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116096#Comment_119116096

To the people who live close to and/or use the 220, how are the numbers? Just curious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115103#Comment_119115103

Don't shoot the messenger! I did say a school bus would suffice and that it's not really DB/TFI's responsibility to serve schools. I know a lot of students commute and surely we shouldn't be driving them back towards Mammy's SUV.

I'm generally happy as a local with the change, only downside is Glasnevin Avenue/DCU/Ballymun Library area is cut off from Kilbarrack/Coolock without an awkward backwards change or walk into Ballymun main street (which is feasible daytime but after that, not so much). Everyone can't be a winner though.

Both routes should be more reliable than the previous 17a where reliability suffered around the middle black hole of the Blanch to Beaumont section.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116140#Comment_119116140

I am a local who uses it (when possible as the timetable and route doesn't offer any reliability or consistency).

To answer below, it generally carries air between DCU & Shangan, carries a decent amount of local traffic between Ballymun Main St and Finglas, then small local traffic past Finglas village. Very busy at school commute times. Can't comment on Blanch section.

It's a bus that tries to do an awful lot - it's a Ballymun local, Finglas local, Blanch local and DCU - Blanch extra all at the same time, I see why it terminates at DCU for handiness/integration/changeover and a new destination, and why it goes into Shangan, but you're quicker getting off and walking to DCU from Ballymun shops before it goes into Shangan.

The n4 should cover most of the Finglas/Blanch traffic to each other and DCU, the N6 finally gives the Ballymun estates access to a bus to Charlestown (long awaited) and down to the village. East of Blanch the 220 has been replaced and is ultimately redundant from next week, it's gone as soon as the Blanch local is introduced.

LXFlyer

As I said, the 220 is a local community bus service.

It’s not intended to be used end to end, but rather for shorter journeys along different sections of the route.

baingal nancer

Noticed today stop 661 outside the ebay building has the N4 on it now

Qrt

Speaking of routes conflicting with turn bans, the 80 is due to turn right from Rathmines Road Upper onto Highfield Road, currently prohibited through a bit of a nightmarish junction.

DaBluBoi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118340#Comment_119118340

Speaking of which, is the 26 supposed to be replaced by the 80 till Rathmines when the F Spine rolls around, or will the southern portion of the 140 still stick around?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118340#Comment_119118340

Yes that remains in my view one of the dafter ideas of the network plan, forcing users of the existing 14 south of Rathgar to endure the heavy traffic along Highfield Road in either direction to/from the city rather than using Rathgar Road as now.

But yes, there’ll have to be changes at that junction in any case, as under the Core Bus Corridors plan outbound general traffic won’t be able to use Rathgar Road and will need an ability to get to Rathgar somehow.

donvito99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118531#Comment_119118531

There are three main sequences (not in order and with no consideration for pedestrians) at the moment:

1. Traffic from Upper Rathmines Road with priority to Palmerston Park and Darty Road, and traffic from Darty Road with priority to Highfield Rd and Upr Rathmines Rd.

2. Darty Road traffic turning left and right which prevents any traffic from Upr Rathmines Rd.

3. Finally there is Palmerston Park and Highfield Rd and turning across each other at the midpoint of the offset junction .

A right turn from Rathmines Rd to Highfield Rs could be facilitated during the second sequence by stopping the Dartry Rd left filter early (the right one could continue).

But it is a mad junction as you say and will have to do a lot of heavy lifting in future.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118438#Comment_119118438

It is difficult to figure out some of the phasing when it comes to the radials and existing routes, but I don't see the southern half of the 14 and the 26 merging to become the 80 until the A Spine is launched in 2024.

Therefore the southern half of the 140 will probably remain during the period between when the F Spine and A Spine launches, as otherwise you'd lose capacity in Rathmines.

There's going to be a bit of chopping and changing of routes temporarily as the phases of the main north/south spines start next year and as I say the detail of that is tricky to forecast.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119118647#Comment_119118647

That would be very reminiscent of the long gone Donnybrook operated 13b if that happened

mikeybhoy

So will this mean the end of the individual operators having their own website, apps, timetables, social media etc. And all channels be through TFI. https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1530113947822657537?t=Hwch4ZZ2CJ0RZCSnSax0Pg&s=19

Hotblack Desiato

Not a moment too soon.

The public should neither have to know nor care which operator has been contracted to run a route.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121459#Comment_119121459

Agreed don't why the operators are differentiated on the new bus stop heads it should just say Dublin city services. It shouldn't be of any relevance to passengers whether the bus is operated by Dublin Bus, Go-Ahead, Arriva, Stagecoach or Joe Bloggs Buses.

Fizzy Duck

Some bus stops that have gone up around Finglas, no longer specify operators. It just has the green bar with "Routes". But some still do specify operators. 🤷

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121589#Comment_119121589

The usual lack of joined up thinking from the NTA

TranslatorPS

IMHO the commercial routes should carry operator bands and separate contact details as per current practice, but the Dublin city network should be either left unlabelled, or preferrably labelled as something like "Dublin city bus network" (emphasis here on 'city bus', not 'Dublin city') - somebody on Twitter even suggested "TFI Dublin".

Timetables should then be reduced to a one-liner, something like "Service operated by ZYX on behalf of the State." and then just TFI/NTA contact details. For the amount of London copying the NTA attempted to do, they missed this - bus timetables on stops in London just have "Operated by ABC for London Buses" directly under the departure times. (They also missed how most of outer London stops use separate sheets for every route so that an entire sheet of 3-4 routes doesn't have to be reprinted when just one route is adjusted...)

Mind you - the first paragraph is an argument I've had since 2018.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122474#Comment_119122474

Dublin City Services was what CIE referred to Dublin Bus routes prior to 1988

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119122649#Comment_119122649

Ah yes, that's what I was aiming for when GAI started out, I just forgot the exact wording by now. After all, it is a single-fare network, there's literally no point in splitting this up.

TranslatorPS

Between the 33 and 33A there's currently a combined 30-minute frequency: a 33 every 90 mins and two 33As to bring it up to every 30. The combined replacement L85 will operate every 30 as well.

TranslatorPS

My bet is that Dublin Bus will not be operating the L85 at all, so their buses and drivers can be redeployed to other services that will see an increase in service levels, such as the A Spine. It does leave the question of what will happen to the Skerries shed, but that's honestly DB's problem.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126331#Comment_119126331

There's no frequency loss. Buses between Skerries and Swords are every 30 and will remain every 30.

LXFlyer

I suspect that particular change might be the subject of a political battle yet as it’s probably the most controversial change in the plan.

Expecting people from Lusk, Rush and Skerries to potentially wait up to 30 minutes if a connection were missed in Swords into the L85 off the A4 when they currently have a direct service is to my mind just plain daft.

DaBluBoi

If only Metrolink had been built...

To combat the loss of the 33 though, wouldn't an increase in DART services to the above towns be an effective solution, or is there not enough capacity at Connolly?

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126519#Comment_119126519

It honestly remains to be seen what will happen as a result of the Drogheda electrification, but I personally imagine the current diesel slots would just end up being replaced with electric slots. Connolly station probably isn't half the problem, at least nowhere near the Connolly-Howth Junction section itself IMHO - the next prime candidate for quad-tracking.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126519#Comment_119126519

Unless you drive, Rush & Lusk station is no use to people living in those towns.

Whatever way it's dressed up, the withdrawal of the direct 33 service is a diminution in service for those towns. Remember that people are using it to travel to points all along the R132 corridor, not just the city centre.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126391#Comment_119126391

They could always expand the frequency to every 15 or 20 minutes to try and compensate for the loss of direct service