Sound and Vision Fund

Elmo · 22-05-2017 8:22pm #1

BAI just announced their sound and vision funding decision.

2 docs getting 90% funding to air on eirSport, how can they now honestly say eir is in anyway free to view (free to air being the requirement).

No sign of Red Rock.

newbie2 · 22-05-2017 8:28pm

Do they not sometimes do 'free to air' programmes/days? Maybe that's enough? They must of had Glen in their ear all month....

Elmo · 22-05-2017 9:14pm

newbie2 wrote: »

Do they not sometimes do 'free to air' programmes/days? Maybe that's enough? They must of had Glen in their ear all month....

When you say FTA to you mean FTV, or eirSport 1 in the clear on satellite no card, no box as in FTA.

Johnboy1951 · 23-05-2017 12:17am

Setanta, under the same scheme, only broadcast FTV, not FTA.

I have noticed several programmes since eir took over that were also FTV.

I have never received a FTA programme from either Setanta or eir ...... did I miss some?

Elmo · 23-05-2017 1:51am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Setanta, under the same scheme, only broadcast FTV, not FTA.

I have noticed several programmes since eir took over that were also FTV.

I have never received a FTA programme from either Setanta or eir ...... did I miss some?

I though something might have changed since under the scheme setanta was also available FTV on upc/Virgin this is now not the case.

icdg · 23-05-2017 6:49am

Setanta was never FTV on UPC/Virgin. In principle, no channels are FTV or FTA on that platform - if you do not pay for at least a basic package then Virgin can cut your network connection entirely and you will receive nothing.

(in practice, the entire analogue service as well as at least one or two basic digital channels - RT?1 or TV3 I think - are broadcast without any encryption. This does not in any way negate the above).

Elmo · 23-05-2017 6:38pm

icdg wrote: »

Setanta was never FTV on UPC/Virgin. In principle, no channels are FTV or FTA on that platform - if you do not pay for at least a basic package then Virgin can cut your network connection entirely and you will receive nothing.

(in practice, the entire analogue service as well as at least one or two basic digital channels - RT?1 or TV3 I think - are broadcast without any encryption. This does not in any way negate the above).

Setanta was on the analogue system. I think the BAI took setanta as being available on the basic package as FTV which does not negate from the fact they should not get funding from under the act.

political analyst · 24-05-2017 3:17am

Elmo wrote: »

Setanta was on the analogue system. I think the BAI took setanta as being available on the basic package as FTV which does not negate from the fact they should not get funding from under the act.

I think the purpose of S&V is to generate employment in the media and thus bring in more revenue for the government. That's probably the reason for availability of the channel in question not being a major issue in the granting of money.

After expenses are deducted from the licence fee money, only 7% of the balance goes to S&V. Furthermore, RTÉ gets money from S&V sometimes.

All in all, RTÉ gets the vast majority of the licence fee money.

Elmo · 24-05-2017 4:12am

political analyst wrote: »

I think the purpose of S&V is to generate employment in the media and thus bring in more revenue for the government. That's probably the reason for availability of the channel in question not being a major issue in the granting of money.

After expenses are deducted from the licence fee money, only 7% of the balance goes to S&V. Furthermore, RTÉ gets money from S&V sometimes.

All in all, RTÉ gets the vast majority of the licence fee money.

This is a bad argument since almost all setanta/eir supported programmes are funded to at least 90%, TG4, TV3 and RTÉ could all afford to support the remain 10% and thus generate the employment in the media. Indeed Community TV seems to be the only other service that gets such high funding, while the Oirechtas are now getting funding also.

Not only that but the BAI don't hold back on funding programming. The fund will be used in its entirety in anycase. thus creating employment.

And then why limit such funding to broadcast considering that many media websites have just as great a reach as eir. and say it with me ... thus create employment ...

Because the act is specific to Free TV.

Johnboy1951 · 24-05-2017 9:45am

Elmo wrote: »

Setanta was on the analogue system. I think the BAI took setanta as being available on the basic package as FTV which does not negate from the fact they should not get funding from under the act.

I agree!

There should be NO funding for anything under this scheme unless the product is FTA.

FTV is a rip-off.

political analyst · 24-05-2017 12:35pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I agree!

There should be NO funding for anything under this scheme unless the product is FTA.

FTV is a rip-off.

Then why don't you write a letter of complaint to the BAI?

Johnboy1951 · 24-05-2017 1:05pm

political analyst wrote: »

Then why don't you write a letter of complaint to the BAI?

That is presumptuous.

political analyst · 24-05-2017 1:14pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That is presumptuous.

You don't know until you try.

Elmo · 24-05-2017 1:22pm

political analyst wrote: »

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

That is presumptuous.

You don't know until you try.

Presumptuous that we have not and that we are purely highlighting the BAIs misinterpretation of the Law.

icdg · 24-05-2017 4:22pm

Maybe get back on the substantive topic please

icdg · 24-05-2017 5:23pm

No more about letters, Friendo take a warning for blatantly ignoring my last post

New_Flash · 25-05-2017 3:02pm

For what it's worth, "Peak Performance" which was broadcast on eir sport last year before Christmas was partially funded by BAI money and it went out in the clear. I'd imagine that these two new shows have the same stipulation.

Johnboy1951 · 25-05-2017 5:44pm

Elmo wrote: »

BAI just announced their sound and vision funding decision.

2 docs getting 90% funding to air on eirSport, how can they now honestly say eir is in anyway free to view (free to air being the requirement).

No sign of Red Rock.

Elmo can you link me to that announcement please?
I cannot seem to locate it.

I did find this, but no mention of eir there.
http://www.bai.ie/en/e5-5m-allocated-119-projects-sound-vision-scheme/

A new six-part crime series for TV3 entitled &#8220;Darklands&#8221;.
A second series of the successful &#8220;Can&#8217;t Cope Won&#8217;t Cope&#8221; for RT&#201; 2 and the IFTA-winning &#8220;Striking Out&#8221; for RT&#201; One.
An Irish language children&#8217;s entertainment series, Lurgan 2K17, for broadcast on TG4.
Support for three feature films, which will be broadcast on RT&#201; channels. These feature films are also supported by the lrish Film Board.
A radio drama package of 15 projects, eight of which will be produced and broadcast by community radio services. This includes four Irish language projects for Raidi&#243; Na Life.
A documentary for Oireachtas TV, &#8220;Women of the Oireachtas&#8221;, which will follow artist Noel Murphy as he embarks on a project to create a painting of all female members of the Oireachtas.

Elmo · 25-05-2017 6:19pm

New_Flash wrote: »

For what it's worth, "Peak Performance" which was broadcast on eir sport last year before Christmas was partially funded by BAI money and it went out in the clear. I'd imagine that these two new shows have the same stipulation.

Are the in the clear as in you don't need a STB or be a former member/current Sky subscriber? Are the FTA or FTV.

The stipulation is incorrect the act says a Free TV channel with almost universal coverage, not a part time Free to View channel with little universal coverage in the state, and this stipulation has been wrong since the BAI awarded programming to Setanta. If Eir want to get Sound and Vision they should provide a FTA channel either on Satellite or on Saorview, not an FTV channel only available on Satellite.

http://www.bai.ie/en/download/132087/

John Kellegher Media - Broken Rings - 90% funding for 1 ep
Marmalade Films - True Blue - 90% funding for 1 ep

total 185000

New_Flash · 26-05-2017 5:12pm

Sorry, by 'in the clear' I meant that even though I don't subscribe to Eir I was able to view this programme. I use a regular skyhd box with no sport package and the shows before and after were unavailable to view.

Johnboy1951 · 26-05-2017 5:52pm

New_Flash wrote: »

Sorry, by 'in the clear' I meant that even though I don't subscribe to Eir I was able to view this programme. I use a regular skyhd box with no sport package and the shows before and after were unavailable to view.

You had a Sky card in the Sky box?

It was then FTV, as you could not view the programme without a Sky Card to decrypt it.

Elmo · 27-05-2017 6:00pm

reply from BAI

Thank you for your email. Please find below the response to your query.

As outlined in the Guide for Applicants, television programmes funded under the Sound & Vision 3 Scheme must be broadcast on a free television service which provides near universal coverage to the State*; or on an appropriate network provider, as defined in Section 77(1)3 of the Broadcasting Act 2009; or MMD system as part of a community content provision contract under Section 72 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

In Round 28 of Sound & Vision, two successful applications had eir Sport as the eligible broadcaster. Each application was accompanied by a letter from eir Sport which confirms that it will comply with all the requirements of the Scheme. eir Sport commits to broadcasting all funded productions free on the Sky Digital platform. It also commits to broadcasting all funded productions free on the eir Vision and Vodafone TV platforms.

*A free television service is defined in the Act as “a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and the reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State”

To which I have asked how do non-eir, non-sky and non-vodaphone customers get access to eir, perhaps by getting a paid subscription to any of those companies thus not making eirsport free. stupid is as stupid does.

Johnboy1951 · 27-05-2017 6:14pm

I think I asked this a few years ago, but here goes again ....

is there any means by which one can easily determine what is to be broadcast under this scheme and more importantly, when and on what service?

I recall I tried to get such info during the Setanta time and failed miserably.

Elmo · 27-05-2017 7:58pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I think I asked this a few years ago, but here goes again ....

is there any means by which one can easily determine what is to be broadcast under this scheme and more importantly, when and on what service?

I recall I tried to get such info during the Setanta time and failed miserably.

No I FOI'ed the BAI and asked for a policy document showing that setanta is exceptable under the scheme. No such doc exists. As in this reply they advised that setanta had set out how it would meet the requirements, I FOI'ed that only to be told it was commercially sensitive

Johnboy1951 · 27-05-2017 8:35pm

Elmo wrote: »

No I FOI'ed the BAI and asked for a policy document showing that setanta is exceptable under the scheme. No such doc exists. As in this reply they advised that setanta had set out how it would meet the requirements, I FOI'ed that only to be told it was commercially sensitive

Bloody nonsense!
Wish there was something that could be done about the whole ridiculous situation.

political analyst · 28-05-2017 2:04am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Bloody nonsense!
Wish there was something that could be done about the whole ridiculous situation.

I guess that most viewers are not even aware of S&V's existence!

Johnboy1951 · 28-05-2017 10:22am

Elmo wrote: »

reply from BAI

Thank you for your email. Please find below the response to your query.

As outlined in the Guide for Applicants, television programmes funded under the Sound & Vision 3 Scheme must be broadcast on a free television service which provides near universal coverage to the State*; or on an appropriate network provider, as defined in Section 77(1)3 of the Broadcasting Act 2009; or MMD system as part of a community content provision contract under Section 72 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

In Round 28 of Sound & Vision, two successful applications had eir Sport as the eligible broadcaster. Each application was accompanied by a letter from eir Sport which confirms that it will comply with all the requirements of the Scheme. eir Sport commits to broadcasting all funded productions free on the Sky Digital platform. It also commits to broadcasting all funded productions free on the eir Vision and Vodafone TV platforms.

*A free television service is defined in the Act as “a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and the reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State”

To which I have asked how do non-eir, non-sky and non-vodaphone customers get access to eir, perhaps by getting a paid subscription to any of those companies thus not making eirsport free. stupid is as stupid does.

It would appear that the BAI are following the letter of the Act unfortunately

Page 153.—In this Part—
“appropriate network provider” means a body referred to in section 77(1);
“free television service” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State;

While I would dispute the 90% figure it is hard to quantify.

What is required is that the above definition is changed to ensure the service cannot be other than FTA, in the same manner as

“must-offer service” means a free-to-air television service provided for the time being by RTÉ, TG4 and the free-to-air service provided under section 70 by the television service programme contractor;

Elmo · 28-05-2017 4:29pm

firstly I would dispute that eirSport are a free channel, 90% of the time they are not only pay but premium pay TV, eirSport is not a free TV like other service.

Even if you suggest that eirSport is free on pay platforms they remain pay to access eir And Vodafone tv services you must PAY and for Sky you must either PAY or have been a Sky customer with a Sky STB and old card.

It's not the broadcaster who is free but it is the network. 2 of which certainly are not and the other is just a maybe.

Also numbers for eir and Vodafone would only be in 10s of thousands

Johnboy1951 · 28-05-2017 4:41pm

Elmo wrote: »

firstly I would dispute that eirSport are a free channel, 90% of the time they are not only pay but premium pay TV, eirSport is not a free TV like other service.

Even if you suggest that eirSport is free on pay platforms they remain pay to access eir And Vodafone tv services you must PAY and for Sky you must either PAY or have been a Sky customer with a Sky STB and old card.

It's not the broadcaster who is free but it is the network. 2 of which certainly are not and the other is just a maybe.

Also numbers for eir and Vodafone would only be in 10s of thousands

It all comes down to the interpretation of 'service' in that definition.

“free television service” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made

It seems to me it is being interpreted as a broadcast programme.

Is that the correct interpretation? Its ambiguous, having gone through the Act for use of similar and the same expression. In addition
Page 87 has

“satellite television service” means a service which consists in or
involves the distribution or transmission of television broadcasting
services from a satellite, such services then offered to the public with
the intention that such services be used by a significant number of
the persons in the whole or part of the State by whom the broadcasts
are received in an intelligible form as their principal means of receiv-
ing television programmes.

but it is by no means clear, and in several other locations in the Act it is apparent that 'service' is referring to a single channel

Page 144

(7) The Authority shall from 1 July 2009 until the analogue
switch-off date or dates provide information to the public in respect
of the reception of television services by means of a multiplex and
the reception equipment necessary to receive such television
services.

Having considered it all, it is difficult to show that the BAI have misinterpreted 'service'.

Elmo · 29-05-2017 1:36pm

Section 77 of the act bears no relavance to Sound and Vision it deals with two issues.

Making MMD transmission redundant.

Insuring that Must Carry Services AKA FREE TO AIR service (RTÉ, TG4 and TV3) are carried on appropriate networks and obligations to Community TV services.

Section 153 Defines an “ appropriate network provider ” set out in section 77 but in 154.2 it is only in relation to "community content provision contract under section 72"

while the definition of
“ free television service ” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State; is set out in section 153

therefore I would say that eirSport is not a Free channel in anyway shape or form.

Johnboy1951 · 29-05-2017 1:55pm

Elmo wrote: »

Section 77 of the act bears no relavance to Sound and Vision it deals with two issues.

Making MMD transmission redundant.

Insuring that Must Carry Services AKA FREE TO AIR service (RTÉ, TG4 and TV3) are carried on appropriate networks and obligations to Community TV services.

Section 153 Defines an “ appropriate network provider ” set out in section 77 but in 154.2 it is only in relation to "community content provision contract under section 72"

while the definition of
“ free television service ” means a television broadcasting service for the reception of which no charge is made by the person providing the service, and reception of which is available to at least 90 per cent of the population of the State; is set out in section 153

therefore I would say that eirSport is not a Free channel in anyway shape or form.

You seem to have misunderstood my post.

The question is whether that definition in 153 means a TV programme, or a TV channel.
Can you point to any part of the act that properly defines that?

I searched the act in its entirety for what I expect in any act ..... consistency of meaning.
So if a 'free television service' means one thing in any part of that Act then it should mean the same thing every time it is used in that Act.

That does not seem to be the case, thus introducing ambiguity.
It is difficult to show that the BAI interpretation is wrong (or right).

Sound and Vision Fund

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