The DUB Passport/Immigration Queue Thread

murphaph

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

You don't get it, if a foreign national travels on a flight from the UK with Irish and UK nationals. You will have a situation where you will need to split passengers up and to do that you will need to check documents.....

I went to Wales on the ferry a few weeks ago. No passport checks anywhere.

It's all excuses. They don't need to check documents on UK flights any more than they need to check them at ferry ports or land border crossings.

They should have built the airport terminals to handle the CTA properly. It would remove huge quantities of passengers from the queues.

The infrastructure could be switched to handle Schengen if the CTA doesn't survive Brexit.

We're trying to attract business, the airport is the first impression we make as a country.

LXFlyer

Last August, the Tanaiste estimated that there would be nearly 4,000 people refused access to the State at ports of entry.

It would be interesting to know how many of those were on flights originating from within the CTA.

Irish Steve

This is clearly going to go nowhere any time soon.

I have just scanned the number of Ryanair flights due in this evening, and the approximate numbers from about 2200 till 2400 are that there are 12 arrivals from the UK, and 21 from Europe, with a high percentage of the non UK arrivals being between 23 and 24, so that's going to put significant pressure on the system in T1, and even if the CTA passengers did not have to be processed, it's a lot of arrivals in a relatively short time scale through T1.

The argument about the airport being treated differently from the ferries has been done to death, and we are not going to change it any time soon, unless one of the vocal keyboard warriors wants to spend the time and money to challenge the decision in the courts.

The issue that this thread is supposedly discussing is the inadequate incoming passenger processing capability at T1, NOT the manner in which the Government is choosing to deal with the checking of incoming CTA passengers at different points of entry.

As presently structured, the facilities at T1 are inadequate to check the number of people arriving at peak periods and that have to be processed. It would still be struggling if the CTA passengers were not being processed.

On that basis, further discussion about the validity or otherwise of checking CTA passengers at the airport will be deleted if it is not contributing positive input into the thread

Fred Swanson

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Stephen15

lxflyer wrote: »

Last August, the Tanaiste estimated that there would be nearly 4,000 people refused access to the State at ports of entry.

It would be interesting to know how many of those were on flights originating from within the CTA.

Are these people who dont have the correct valid travel documents or are they point blank refused despite having these documents, if so and their coming from within CTA or even the wider EU are we not liable to EU law.

LXFlyer

Stephen15 wrote: »

Are these people who dont have the correct valid travel documents or are they point blank refused despite having these documents, if so and their coming from within CTA or even the wider EU are we not liable to EU law.

They would be people who are not entitled to enter the state - in other words non-EU citizens who do not have a valid right and/or documentation to enter Ireland.

Avada

Stephen15 wrote: »

Are these people who dont have the correct valid travel documents or are they point blank refused despite having these documents, if so and their coming from within CTA or even the wider EU are we not liable to EU law.

Read Section 4(3) of the Immigration Act 2004. The majority of those refused would have been non-EU nationals, with some limited exeptions.

trellheim

I am sorry ; I refuse to accept that a potential 40% reduction in the numbers passing through passport control would have no effect on the subject of this thread "Long passport control queues@T1"

ON the other point I mentioned - Immigration had themselves said that passport scanning would be eased off in the peaks - there is no evidence of this happening.


Have DAA and INIS/GNIB a published memorandum of understanding anywhere.

Which is the lead agency for deciding immigration questions , INIS or GNIB, and have they published any service level agreements or KPIs ? Do they have a customer charter

( here's UKBF@Heathrow stats for April )

http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Company/Static/PDF/Companynewsandinformation/Border_Force_Performance_Apr17.pdf

Fred Swanson

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LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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That is surely a question that a Dail question could answer.

The Veteran

I would say appropriately worded emails or letters would get any answers you want. Alternatively, TDs can ask questions in the Dail.

Ask daa for queue data - they monitor every queue you can think of in the airport.

In relation to FOIs, remember what FOI gets you - it gets you copies of records, it is not designed to get answers to questions of themselves.

In relation to easing off on scanning - please read what was actually said at the time. The reference was to keeping the situation under review in the bedding in period which is normal practice in any change of business process or where software is introduced.

Anyone who has sought to exit the Schengen zone since late April will have seen enhanced exit checks in place. Ask some airlines what impact those checks are having?

More checks are required not fewer.

Fred Swanson

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trellheim

I had meant to say that neither GNIB nor INIS publish any meaningful stats I can find. ( one small entry in the 2015 AGS annual report about refusing 3390 people , but it does not say at what entry point or mode of travel )

DAA publish no useful stats I can find and in fact are downright misleading

"The Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) operate Passport Control on arrival into Dublin Airport. This is the sole responsibility of An Garda S?och?na (Irish Police)."

( when in fact GNIB run T2 and INIS run T1 )

( see https://www.dublinairport.com/at-the-airport/passenger-information/customs-immigration )

The Veteran

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Could you please explain?

There was a change in the Schengen Border Code which requires all persons exiting the Schengen to be checked against a number of databases. It has caused significant delays in a range of airport's and shown up infrastructural shortcomings in a number.

Daily mail online had quite a bit of coverage but covered it as "irate passengers" miss flights amongst airport chaos as opposed to reporting it correctly.

trellheim

This is what was said in relation to scanning :

The immigration official said the operation of the system was being monitored in the run-up to Christmas to ensure a balance was struck between maximising the volume of checks and ensuring there was no negative impact on passengers arriving here over the holiday period.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-passport-data-checks-at-dublin-airport-to-combat-jihadi-terror-threat-35310776.html

Its the indo so take it as you wish , there' s no official quote I can find.

BUt the key phrase for me is "ensuring there was no negative impact" . In the context of this thread, I am not sure that point can be defended.

In relation to Schengen Exit I was dealt with professionally and quickly Malaga-Dublin recently , couldn't complain at all

( inbound was something else again, but I think I can't blame the spaniards for taking Brexit badly , and we're lumped in with the Brits for spanish inbounds in Malaga )

And lastly - More checks ? We have a legislature to enable that and I'm happy for them to pass any laws needed in the light of the current security climate , more power to their elbow.

What accountability do the agencies have .

Negative_G

The Veteran wrote: »

I would say appropriately worded emails or letters would get any answers you want. Alternatively, TDs can ask questions in the Dail.

Ask daa for queue data - they monitor every queue you can think of in the airport.

In relation to FOIs, remember what FOI gets you - it gets you copies of records, it is not designed to get answers to questions of themselves.

In relation to easing off on scanning - please read what was actually said at the time. The reference was to keeping the situation under review in the bedding in period which is normal practice in any change of business process or where software is introduced.

Anyone who has sought to exit the Schengen zone since late April will have seen enhanced exit checks in place. Ask some airlines what impact those checks are having?

More checks are required not fewer.

I've asked you a couple of times now.

If an Irish citizen, returning from a CTA flight, elects not to wait for up to an hour and pass through passport control, what if any offence have they committed and are they liable for detention?

The Veteran

trellheim wrote: »

This is what was said in relation to scanning :



http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-passport-data-checks-at-dublin-airport-to-combat-jihadi-terror-threat-35310776.html

Its the indo so take it as you wish , there' s no official quote I can find.

BUt the key phrase for me is "ensuring there was no negative impact" . In the context of this thread, I am not sure that point can be defended.

In relation to Schengen Exit I was dealt with professionally and quickly Malaga-Dublin recently , couldn't complain at all

( inbound was something else again, but I think I can't blame the spaniards for taking Brexit badly , and we're lumped in with the Brits for spanish inbounds in Malaga )

And lastly - More checks ? We have a legislature to enable that and I'm happy for them to pass any laws needed in the light of the current security climate , more power to their elbow.

What accountability do the agencies have .

The Indo article makes it clear that the reference to striking a balance related to the then imminent holiday period - Christmas Day was in week 4 following deployment when the scanning operation remained in expansion mode.

I note your comment about your inbound trip to Spain.

New laws are not needed to increase checks conducted. If every e-document was checked fully (opening an encrypted chip, template check, etc) then there would be queues to behold. Also, Interpol provides for access to a number of databases. Thereafter, the implementation of the SIS in ireland is overdue and by May next year the PNR Directive must be implemented.

In terms of wanting some published information, as a starter go to the INIS website and into press releases, there is an annual report as cub for 2016 which was published in June.

INIS has a customer service email address - address any questions you wish to that email address and I'm sure you will be provided with whatever information you wish.

The Veteran

Negative_G wrote: »

I've asked you a couple of times now.

If an Irish citizen, returning from a CTA flight, elects not to wait for up to an hour and pass through passport control, what if any offence have they committed and are they liable for detention?

Yes, look up the legislation

Negative_G

The Veteran wrote: »

Yes, look up the legislation

Which part of the legislation specifically?

All extracts which Treillheim has posted appear to contradict what you're claiming.

Fred Swanson

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Negative_G

The Veteran wrote: »

Yes, look up the legislation

What offence would they have committed?

Fred Swanson

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Negative_G

Fred Swanson wrote: »

None.

As there is nothing in the Immigration Act 2004 that requires an Irish citizen to produce a passport.

Agreed.

I'm waiting to see what TheVeteran claims as he seems to work at the "coalface".

He/she will probably tell me to stick in a PQ or FOI and deflect in true PS style.

Pat Dunne

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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As a curious onlooker to this topic. How can an individual prove to the recoginised State authorities that he/she is an Irish Citizen, without producing a valid Irish Passport?

The Veteran

Negative_G wrote: »

Agreed.

I'm waiting to see what TheVeteran claims as he seems to work at the "coalface".

He/she will probably tell me to stick in a PQ or FOI and deflect in true PS style.

Negative\Fred\Trellheim - read the 04 Act fully and carefully.

For example section 11 says "every person" - it is blind to nationality! Questions may also be asked and should be answered. Then, I would point you to an earlier section which I will leave you to find for yourselves as what would I know.

Reading some of the posts in here really read to suggest that there is something wrong with conducting controls or checks on people crossing borders. By checking people, those who have something to hide may be discovered; no checks and our society would be weaker. I am proud of what I do - a small minority of Irish people who really don't know what is going on wish to see a laissez faire approach - everyone is entitled to an opinion but really do some research before making statements. Some things are not in the public domain because they can't be or shouldn't be.

Ask a normal\average\typical person who lives here whether they would like to see those with false documents detected; those with serious convictions detected and refused or monitored; children being trafficked are identified; that those abusing various aspects of our society including the CTA are detected, amongst other things or not and I will hazard a guess that the answer will be "yes, they should be stopping all those things".

Trust me, we have no interest in Irish people going about their business but we don't K is who is standing in front of us until we see them. The false documents that are detected (everyday by the day!) are usually found in the EU channels. A lot of the other people of interest go through the EU channels.

Getting back to this thread; the queues in T1 are a factor of the infrastructure and the volumes combined. The queues are restricted to small pockets of the day - most of the time the wait time is a couple of minutes if even that.

I've repeatedly said ask in the official channels anything you want to know; if you don't get an answer the first time, ask again. But remember there is a difference between 'the' answer and 'the answer you want'.

Glencarraig

Quickest way through passport control in Dublin ??..........develop a sore ankle and arrange to be met by an OCS wheelchair operative, they are permitted to jump any queue.

Fred Swanson

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Irish Steve

On the basis of the very comprehensive and appropriate answer just posted by The Veteran, as of now, this thread is ONLY to discuss the issue of long queues at T1.

ANY POSTS ABOUT THE VALIDITY OR OTHERWISE OF THE 2004 IMMIGRATION ACT, OR THE CTA WILL EARN AN INFRACTION OR BAN OR BOTH

trellheim

Edited as per mod note above.

Spanish Eyes

DAA with its interest in franchises and so on, should do the decent thing here, and have a tea/coffee place with areas to sit down for those who need sustenance in the face of an hour long Queue. Money for old rope.

Some people, myself included would prefer to wait out the queues with a latte and a bun, and then get up and go through when the queue has lessened.

Not for everyone I know that, but the option could be there. Being a bit lighthearted here of course.

To me, the bottom line is the absolutely awful infrastructure of the immigration hall in T1. It is very grim. So many lines, so many pink shirts funnelling people through. Too many opportunities for others to skip ahead. It is dreadful.

If I thought that soon enough the place would be smartened up and made to look a bit professional and welcoming, I would suck it up.

But I doubt it. It doesn't make any money for DAA does it?