Why don't our prisoners work?

DickSwiveller

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Digging what Pilly? The fact that you've absolutely no idea what you're talking about is fairly obvious. At least some people are willing to engage in the conversation rather than throw in the occasional, and rather dull, one liners.

In all fairness Samuel, you're comment that enforcement and not deterrent stopped high rates of drink driving is absolute balderdash. As a result of the gardaí enforcing the law it has deterred people from doing it.

Turtyturd

Mark25 wrote: »

Seriously if you took TVs and playstations (for people who have them) away things would be much worse in prisons for both prisoners and the officers. And even if it was allowed hard labour isn't going to happen with the way prisons are. I'm not sure what you even really mean by hard labour?

A lot of people just get so outraged at the thought of prisoners having tv's that they don't even look at it from the perspective of making staff's lives easier. It's a horrible job, and if they are in a situation where they are guarding a rec hall with one other officer and 20 plus prisoners where something could kick off at any minute every distraction is welcome.

Turtyturd

Turtyturd wrote: »

A lot of people just get so outraged at the thought of prisoners having tv's that they don't even look at it from the perspective of making staff's lives easier. It's a horrible job, and if they are in a situation where they are guarding a rec hall with one other officer and 20 plus prisoners where something could kick off at any minute every distraction is welcome.

Exactly. What difference does it make to you or me if a fella is off the streets behind the wall in a space no bigger than a box room? So what if he looks at a Champion's League match or the soaps in his cell, it's no skin off my nose. Gives them something to talk about amongst themselves and keeps their minds occupied. Suicides are down tenfold since TV's came in and many old school staff say it's the best change in the system they've ever seen.

Samuel T. Cogley

DickSwiveller wrote: »

In all fairness Samuel, you're comment that enforcement and not deterrent stopped high rates of drink driving is absolute balderdash. As a result of the gardaí enforcing the law it has deterred people from doing it.

The difference between the type of deterrent you're suggesting and enforcement is pretty straight forward. The deterrent of a ban or prison time did very little to offending rates. Enforcement has gone some way to helping which is completely different to the MO of just stick a few more years in the legislation.

Education has done way more than a deterrent and enforcement combined.

You're also dealing with, as I've tried to point out to you before, a group that can be, in the main, deterred. An alcoholic who lives 10 miles from the nearest pub is not going to be deterred no matter what obstacles you put in their way. A heroin addict robbing houses is in a very similar position.

Mark25

demanufactured wrote: »

They should be made to do ****e jobs like picking stones in a field.
Digging trenches and then filling them in again.
Building walls, kicking them and then building them again.

Anyone who doesn't want to participate can spend they day in their cell, no TV, play station or Internet... Just the toilet for company.

Anyone who steps out of line gets a night in solitary.

Sounds like you've been watching Cool Hand Luke

PMBC

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The policies you suggest also see prisons packed the world over. The only thing they do - which arguably is a legitimate aim - is make society 'feel good'. It doesn't reduce crime, in fact the opposite, it doesn't reduce recidivism and it increases cost in trying to keep a lid on it.

So honest question here - why do it? Why not do what would reduce crime etc. Putting cost aside as tbh it's the only reason we don't do it. What makes you (and others) so sure hard labour would be any form of deterrent? I'm keeping an open mind here - maybe I've missed something.

The worst part of being in jail is doing nothing. Prisoners, generally would appreciate work but there are issues such as with work tools being used for other purposes.
Read John Lonergan's book for an eye opener and he had a hard time running Mountjoy - though mostly with the Department of Justice. The red-tops and the Indo readily sensationalise prison stuff as do their sister papers in UK. We all know that a lot of terrible and brutal crimes take place. It is also known that there is a huge number of convicted criminals with mental health issues - before they are locked away.
I don't carry a card for Prisoners Rights but the issue is more complicated than it is often presented to us, citizens. Look at the different treatment of white collar criminals compared with 'the riff raff' - as a solicitor that I know referred to the defendants in the District Court in middle Ireland

Summer wind

biscuithead wrote: »

Summer wind wrote: »

Stupid suggestions to those who know better rarely do.

I've been in courtrooms and prisons. I've seen young men do their best in court by interrupting the judge and shouting in the hope of being found in contempt of court so they'll be sent to jail because they think it'll make them look like a hard man. I've seen young men that have been bouncing from jail to jail racking up the convictions because they don't mind doing the time. There's nothing there to deter them. This is a cycle that needs to change.
I understand that prisoners need something to focus on and working out helps but I do think that €370,000 or €30,000 per jail is a bit much. Can you see why I don't think it's terrible if someone that has 90 convictions and has just gotten another 12 months inside doesn't have weights to lift and a trainer to give him a workout plan. I would much prefer to see half that money spent on something for sick children. It's obvious our opinions differ but I'm as entitled to mine as you are to yours.

the_pen_turner

biscuithead wrote: »

And if you refuse to do this dumb task? Then what? A beating? So you advocate forced labour camps?

a judge could give a sentence of 2 years hard labour. if they refuse or only do some days a week then it will take longer to do the 730 days

Sleeper12

the_pen_turner wrote:

a judge could give a sentence of 2 years hard labour. if they refuse or only do some days a week then it will take longer to do the 730 days

They can't make the same people work outside of jail there's not a chance that they'll make them do hard labour inside jail.
Also you'll notice hard labour has vanished in most countries if not them all. Doesn't work. Never has and never will