Are Tesco 5 litre (Ashbeck) mineral water bottles really tap water?

regi3457

According to the label, this mineral water is sourced in the middle of the UK, bottled on site and imported into Ireland yet the price of one 5 litre bottle is only 1.29. How is this even possible, surely the logistics and transport alone would cost more than that? Isn't it economically impossible to charge that little for something rather heavy that has been imported? I am just being dubious here because the water from Tesco doesn't make me feel so great but am not blaming them for using tap water, just trying to understand if:

1) Here in Ireland there are regulations regarding bottled water or would they be able to use tap water and get away with it?
2) is it economically possible to put such an imported product on the shelves for 1.29.

ED E

regi3457 wrote: »

2) is it economically possible to put such an imported product on the shelves for 1.29.

Have you ever heard of loss leaders?

CeilingFly

The bottle itself costs a couple of pence - they come as small pieces of plastic and are "blown up" on the bottling site to the size used.

Mineral water probably costs no more than tap water if the bottling plant is in the right location.

Considering that bulk packs of 12 x 500ml mineral water cost about €2.50 in most supermarkets, €1.29 for a single 5l bottle would be about right.

Transport wise a 40ft truck will cost about €1200 from uk. 20 pallets will fit onto one truck, about 240 5l bottles per pallet, that's 4800 per truck / 25c per bottle transport cost.

regi3457

ED E wrote: »

Have you ever heard of loss leaders?

no but looked it up

so you reckon they make a loss on it just to attract customers? I am not disagreeing with you but who goes to a store just for mineral water or who would decide on what store to go to just because of the mineral water?

Could it be that the water doesn't actually come from England? Is there any reason why it should since who could prove otherwise?

Nonoperational

It comes from where they say. Not really a consumer to be fair, just you picking a random product to doubt.

regi3457

CeilingFly wrote: »

Considering that bulk packs of 12 x 500ml mineral water cost about €2.50 in most supermarkets, €1.29 for a single 5l bottle would be about right.

mineral water sourced locally maybe

I pay 8.00 euro for a 6 X 1.5 litre pack of San Pellegrino sparkling water which comes from Italy

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It comes from the stated source. It does come out of a "tap" but linked to a local mineral water spring.

regi3457

Hendrix Acidic Geyser wrote: »

It comes from the stated source. It does come out of a "tap" but linked to a local mineral water spring.

How do you know this?

regi3457

Nonoperational wrote: »

It comes from where they say. Not really a consumer to be fair, just you picking a random product to doubt.

Yes beause it blows my mind that something so heavy can be imported from another country and sold for 1.29. If it is true I really applaud them but don't see how it is possible

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

regi3457 wrote: »

How do you know this?

D'oh, I looked it up.

regi3457

Hendrix Acidic Geyser wrote: »

D'oh, I looked it up.

so did I, what does that have to do with anything?

CeilingFly

regi3457 wrote: »

mineral water sourced locally maybe

I pay 8.00 euro for a 6 X 1.5 litre pack of San Pellegrino sparkling water which comes from Italy

Aldi yes, (glenpatrick), tesco = perthshire in Scotland.

Bulk transport is not expensive and a lot fits in a full truck.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

regi3457 wrote: »

so did I, what does that have to do with anything?

I don't know but the piece I read (not by Tesco) explained the source was a mineral spring. I'm not sure what you want. As a consumer issue, is it just the low price that bothers you?

regi3457

Hendrix Acidic Geyser wrote: »

I don't know but the piece I read (not by Tesco) explained the source was a mineral spring. I'm not sure what you want. As a consumer issue, is it just the low price that bothers you?

Is mineral water in Ireland regulated or can I start a company and put tap water in bottles and say it comes from mount kilimanjaro?

smelly sock

regi3457 wrote: »

mineral water sourced locally maybe

I pay 8.00 euro for a 6 X 1.5 litre pack of San Pellegrino sparkling water which comes from Italy

Ive heard bad stories about the san pellegrino and premium waters. No better than you ballygowan but they can charge 3 timescas much.

Demforeigners

smelly sock wrote: »

Ive heard bad stories about the san pellegrino and premium waters. No better than you ballygowan but they can charge 3 timescas much.

And idiots will buy it. The joys of marketing innit.

cml387

Superquinn used to sell for a brief period bottled water from Japan.

Symbolic i think of the madness of the bottled water industry.

And of course there is "Peckham Spring".

regi3457

smelly sock wrote: »

Ive heard bad stories about the san pellegrino and premium waters. No better than you ballygowan but they can charge 3 timescas much.

it costs 3 times as much because it is imported

Ballygowan in Italy would also cost 8 euro, hence the OP

smelly sock

regi3457 wrote: »

it costs 3 times as much because it is imported

Ballygowan in Italy would also cost 8 euro, hence the OP

They tell you its imported man.

rubadub

regi3457 wrote: »

so you reckon they make a loss on it just to attract customers? I am not disagreeing with you but who goes to a store just for mineral water or who would decide on what store to go to just because of the mineral water?

It can be sold below cost to attract customers but also to show up well on supermarket price comparison surveys. There are several things in tesco which are particularly cheap but not readily advertised. The first I spotted was caster sugar, which as long as I remember was always costing more per kilo than granulated. Tesco "standard" caster sugar costs more than their value sugar. Go to the shop and there are only a a shelf ot 2-3 across of it selling, they do not want customers knowing, they have a pallet of the value sugar beside it.

Another is battered chicken nuggets, maybe not below cost but very cheap and very often sold out, and little room for stock. A new one I spotted is 500g of battered tesco cod for 2.50, very few on the shelf. Pretty sure their nikita vodka is below cost, as you can tot up the excise duty & vat costs.

Some people would go just because of the price, one thing is cheap and they presume the rest are. Like PC world selling printers which are cheap, and then a 15euro for a printer USB cable which is 1.50 in dealz. People are sucked in and think its just "the going rate". And there is probably some pricing psychology based on the bulky size of them "that full trolley cost me feck all!"

regi3457 wrote: »

Is mineral water in Ireland regulated or can I start a company and put tap water in bottles and say it comes from mount kilimanjaro?

I would say you would be done legally on the description, you could come up with a brand name though. Coca cola were in the media eye as they were using local water from municipal supplies and filtering it and adding minerals back into it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dasani

The media made mocking parallels with a 1992 episode of the well-known BBC sitcom Only Fools and Horses, in which protagonist Del Boy attempts to pass off local tap water as bottled "Peckham Spring".[5] Del's scheme fails when he pollutes the local reservoir, causing the bottled water to glow yellow.

Republic of Ireland[edit]
In Ireland, it is marketed as Deep River Rock.

A lad sold filtered new york tap water and made no secret about it

http://www.tapdny.com/

In 2008, Entrepreneur Craig Zucker began selling tap water (after running it through a reverse osmosis procedure to remove the chlorine) under the name Tap'd NY. He priced it fairly high at $1.50 for a 20-ounce bottle. In this case study we see the marketing brilliance of Zucker, how the media picked up on this and how with the right hustle you can actually take a shot at selling ice to eskimos.

In the homebrew forum some lad mentioned brewing with some tesco brand of tap water which I think was filtered and quite pure, he used it for special beer and would add back minerals.

regi3457

smelly sock wrote: »

They tell you its imported man.

Exactly, but paying 8 euro for it over here makes it seem right, Now Tesco claims theirs comes from England... I just don't know. I guess if someone could tell me that there is some kind of office where people check these things for us consumers. Am I being naive?

AngryLips

Have you considered the possibility that maybe it is something else making you feel bad and not the water? Just a thought.

CeilingFly

rubadub wrote: »

In the homebrew forum some lad mentioned brewing with some tesco brand of tap water which I think was filtered and quite pure, he used it for special beer and would add back minerals.

Some Tesco and sainsburys in the UK used to (may still do) have a filtered water tap that you brought your own containers in and filled up for about 20p a litre.

wordofwarning

regi3457 wrote: »

it costs 3 times as much because it is imported

Ballygowan in Italy would also cost 8 euro, hence the OP

Italian water is expensive, as it is a premium brand. It has nothing to do with the shipping costs. You can ship 1 litre of German milk to China for less than 10 cents. Shipping is extremely cheap. Sure Lidl sells 1.5 liters of German water for less than 45c which 23% is VAT.

ben.schlomo

CeilingFly wrote: »

Some Tesco and sainsburys in the UK used to (may still do) have a filtered water tap that you brought your own containers in and filled up for about 20p a litre.

Theyve been in Tesco here too. OP, there are bigger issues out there.

L1011

regi3457 wrote: »

Is mineral water in Ireland regulated or can I start a company and put tap water in bottles and say it comes from mount kilimanjaro?

Regulated across the EU.

Coke sell Riverrock as 'water from deep underground', which it is as it's Lisburn tap water. Actual spring water has to have a named source

Peregrinus

regi3457 wrote: »

Is mineral water in Ireland regulated or can I start a company and put tap water in bottles and say it comes from mount kilimanjaro?

You can't say it comes from Mt Kilimanjaro unless it actually comes from Mt Kiliminjaro.

But you can certainly bottle Dublin tap water and say that it comes from "deep in the Wicklow hills", or something like that. While that wouldn't be much of a selling-point in Dublin, it might sound better in, say, the UK or further afield.

Shelflife

CeilingFly wrote: »

The bottle itself costs a couple of pence - they come as small pieces of plastic and are "blown up" on the bottling site to the size used.

Mineral water probably costs no more than tap water if the bottling plant is in the right location.

Considering that bulk packs of 12 x 500ml mineral water cost about €2.50 in most supermarkets, €1.29 for a single 5l bottle would be about right.

Transport wise a 40ft truck will cost about €1200 from uk. 20 pallets will fit onto one truck, about 240 5l bottles per pallet, that's 4800 per truck / 25c per bottle transport cost.

164 on a pallet, thats 3280 bottles so thats 37c a bottle

Vat element is 24c .

Sales cost 1.29
Vat 0.24
Transport 0.37

That leaves 68c to be shared between the manufacturer and the retailer

rubadub

CeilingFly wrote: »

Some Tesco and sainsburys in the UK used to (may still do) have a filtered water tap that you brought your own containers in and filled up for about 20p a litre.

thats a good idea. I have always thought we should have more public drinking water fountains.

I saw a good point being made that if governments were serious about pollution/recycling etc then they should have them. It would also be a good (if very minor) thing for tourists in the likes of city centres. People would bring their own bottles and likely bring them home again, rather than trying to stuff into already overflowing bins. It also in a way turns people off sugary drinks or diet drinks still bad for your teeth, e.g. if I am thirsty I am more likely to buy coke as the thought of paying over the odds for plain water sickens me.

L1011

My local Supervalu had one of those filter machines. Emphasis on had. Idea didn't take off here. Outside of a few areas our tap water is too good basically. Mine gets screwed up by over chlorination some times though

whiterebel

Maybe due to some plastic bottles being unsuitable for refilling? My local SuperValu is doing 5L water for €1.00, so it would be hard to beat that.

regi3457

just did a check and Ashbeck water has a lot of chlorine in it, why would it have chlorine if it comes from a natural source? Can anyone explain this to me please?

rubadub

regi3457 wrote: »

just did a check and Ashbeck water has a lot of chlorine in it

a lot of chlorine relative to what?

I can see this, listing chloride but not chlorine.

Tesco's Ashbeck Mountain Spring - Natural mineral water.

Here is the details... all in mg/litre

Calcium 10.0,

Magnesium 2.5,

Sodium 9.0,

Potassium 2.0,

Bicarbonate 25.0,

Chloride 12.0,

Sulphate 10.0,

Nitrate 11.0,

pH at source 6.2

ballygowans value is 28mg/L

https://www.ballygowan.ie/our-water/ballygowan-water-source/

This is a (ridiculously sensationalist) article on tesco & asda selling filtered mains water

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2190027/Asda-Tesco-selling-tap-water-bottled-water-confusing-customers.html

note at the bottom they even call out ashbeck as being "legit"

SOLD NEXT TO NAME BRANDS
The Tesco and Asda still water bottles sit alongside big-name mineral water brands on the shelves.
At Tesco, the Everyday Value Still Water features a ?best seller? sticker while at Asda shoppers are drawn to a promotion sign advertising its 17p low price.
The Tesco brand adds the slogan: ?Just water, nothing added.? Asda?s tells customers it is ?Good for hydration? and its ingredients are ?Still Water (100%)?.
The bottles also sit alongside the supermarkets? own brand mineral waters. Tesco?s Ashbeck and Asda?s Eden Falls ? at 42p and 45p respectively ? list their spring source.

Nody

regi3457 wrote: »

just did a check and Ashbeck water has a lot of chlorine in it, why would it have chlorine if it comes from a natural source? Can anyone explain this to me please?

Natural source does not mean it's clean water; it could be swamp water for all you know (it's a natural source but you'd never drink it directly).

regi3457

rubadub wrote: »

a lot of chlorine relative to what?

I can see this, listing chloride but not chlorine.



ballygowans value is 28mg/L

https://www.ballygowan.ie/our-water/ballygowan-water-source/

This is a (ridiculously sensationalist) article on tesco & asda selling filtered mains water

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2190027/Asda-Tesco-selling-tap-water-bottled-water-confusing-customers.html

note at the bottom they even call out ashbeck as being "legit"

I am pretty sure chloride and chlorine are totally different things. From what I checked on google, chloride is harmless in small amounts and chlorine is a poison.

I meant relative to water that you find in such natural places (springs and underground etc)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

regi3457 wrote: »

I am pretty sure chloride and chlorine are totally different things. From what I checked on google, chloride is harmless in small amounts and chlorine is a poison.

I meant relative to water that you find in such natural places (springs and underground etc)

I'm not sure what your angle is here. All water contains chloride and it varies depending on the mineral composition of the source.

rubadub

regi3457 wrote: »

I am pretty sure chloride and chlorine are totally different things.

they are, I was guessing you saw chloride and thought it was chlorine.

regi3457 wrote: »

I meant relative to water that you find in such natural places (springs and underground etc)

so what are these values?

I would be comparing ashbeck to bottled water that you do not have any doubts about. And if no chlorine is listed on the bottle it does not mean there is none -try and find a branded bottle you trust that does list it. Tesco are very open about their ingredients listing, they even have ingredietns listings on some spirits & beers which are not required.

Chlorine is a huge issue if brewing beer, Ashbeck is commonly used by brewers and I do not recall any saying chlorine was an issue.

regi3457

Hendrix Acidic Geyser wrote: »

I'm not sure what your angle is here. All water contains chloride and it varies depending on the mineral composition of the source.

My angle is: why is there chlorine in the water which supposedly comes from a natural source?

ongarite

regi3457 wrote: »

My angle is: why is there chlorine in the water which supposedly comes from a natural source?

There is no chlorine in the wafer as mentioned already

Tesco's Ashbeck Mountain Spring - Natural mineral water.

Here is the details... all in mg/litre

Calcium 10.0,

Magnesium 2.5,

Sodium 9.0,

Potassium 2.0,

Bicarbonate 25.0,

Chloride 12.0,

Sulphate 10.0,

Nitrate 11.0,

pH at source 6.2

https://www.eldoradosprings.com/blog/chlorine-vs.-chloride

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

regi3457 wrote: »

My angle is: why is there chlorine in the water which supposedly comes from a natural source?

It doesn't. Yet again, you are confusing chloride and chlorine and I already told you chloride is present in 'natural' water..

Arbie

Our tap water tastes good, so I drink that at home. If I am buying a bottle, I like the taste of Tipperary Water, Ballygowan, and Volvic. But River Rock and Dasani taste awful. In my homeplace we had bad tap water, so we drank filtered tap water or bottle water. We didn't care once it was safe and tasted nice.

So does it matter whether bottled water is from a tap or mineral spring once it is safe and tastes nice? I think what matters to most people is the taste. A small number of people may need to drink tap water for specific safety/health reasons, but again does it matter if it's mineral or not?

CeilingFly

Chloride is part of the chlorine sphere.

In high dosages its harmful.

For drinking water 250mg is the recommended upper level, so at 12, its very low.

Here's an article about it

http://sciencefairwater.com/chemical-water-quality-parameters/primary-anions-and-cations/chloride/

At the end of the day, bottling water is cheap. Mineral water comes free out of the ground. There's no manufacturing or additives involved.

For years we overpaid for it as it was a "fashion" Now its an everyday commodity and most people won't over pay for brand names.

Found out today that 6400 5litre drums will fit on a 40ft truck with pallets double stacked.

L1011

CeilingFly wrote: »

Found out today that 6400 5litre drums will fit on a 40ft truck with pallets double stacked.

Pretty sure that's sailing very close to if not over the maximum weights allowed. Water alone is 32 tonnes! Add in the vehicle, fuel, the pallets and even the empty drums and you're running out.

CeilingFly

L1011 wrote: »

Pretty sure that's sailing very close to if not over the maximum weights allowed. Water alone is 32 tonnes! Add in the vehicle, fuel, the pallets and even the empty drums and you're running out.

True. I don't think I'll take up trucking

But shipping is probably the biggest cost followed by the plastic container itself.

regi3457

ongarite wrote: »

There is no chlorine in the wafer as mentioned already


https://www.eldoradosprings.com/blog/chlorine-vs.-chloride

Yes there is as I already mentioned. I took a sample and tested it myself.

I just realize that the confusion might be that when I said I did a "check" I wasn't being concise. The "check" I did was with chlorine strips.

regi3457

CeilingFly wrote: »

True. I don't think I'll take up trucking

But shipping is probably the biggest cost followed by the plastic container itself.

exactly which makes Ashbeck water a miracle

1.29 for the bottle, the water and to import it from midlands in England

regi3457

Hendrix Acidic Geyser wrote: »

It doesn't. Yet again, you are confusing chloride and chlorine and I already told you chloride is present in 'natural' water..

yes, I get your point but please see my other point, I may not have expressed myself correctly

CeilingFly

regi3457 wrote: »

exactly which makes Ashbeck water a miracle

1.29 for the bottle, the water and to import it from midlands in England

Why?

The water itself is virtually no cost.

After vat, its about €1.05. Say 30c for shipping, 5c for bottle, 5c for the water itself and still 65c between tesco and bottler.

Multiply that by the hundreds of thousands they sell and its a nice profit.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

regi3457 wrote: »

yes, I get your point but please see my other point, I may not have expressed myself correctly

Sorry, bit what, exactly, is your point regarding chlorine/chloride?

regi3457

CeilingFly wrote: »

Why?

The water itself is virtually no cost.

After vat, its about €1.05. Say 30c for shipping, 5c for bottle, 5c for the water itself and still 65c between tesco and bottler.

Multiply that by the hundreds of thousands they sell and its a nice profit.

Why do you say 30c for shipping where do you get that? How can it cost 30c to transport a 5 litre container of water that weighs 5 kg?

Former Former

regi3457 wrote: »

Why do you say 30c for shipping where do you get that? How can it cost 30c to transport a 5 litre container of water that weighs 5 kg?

You can't transport one bottle for 30 cents.

Can you transport 10,000 bottles for €3,000? Very possibly, especially if you already have the shipping routes, the trucks and the warehouses in place.