Stupid System. Stupid Country

Badly Drunk Boy

Sam Kade wrote: »

So how does all that make the country stupid?

Because unqualified and blind people should be allowed on motorbikes. And we're at fault.

When I wanted my passport renewed recently, I closed my eyes, clicked my heels thrice...but the new one didn't appear in front of me immediately...

Sosurface

The ostriches have appeared. A great little country. To be sure. To be sure.

Squatter

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

When I wanted my passport renewed recently, I closed my eyes, clicked my heels thrice...but the new one didn't appear in front of me immediately...

I actually did renew my passport online last week - and it didn't take much more than ten mouse clicks and a smartphone photo taken by my missus.

A fantastic service from DFA, the new ppt arrived by express post only 5 working days after I first applied.

Sosurface

_Brian wrote: »

If you don't like tue country or the system there are three legitimate options.
Get elected and do something about it, move the **** away, or shut up with the moaning.

While we don't live in an ideal system Ireland is a great country where we enjoy great facilities and wonderful freedoms, public healthcare is good, education is good, and in general it's safe to go about your business.

Big swing, you had to make a few trips to get what you needed.

Hardly worth taking to the internet over it !!

Public healthcare is good? Oh boy you live in one insulated laa laa land. Another story for another thread. Education is good? If you happen to be a practicing catholic who doesnt deviate frim the norm in any possible way and are willing to accept that free is not always free by the Irish definition and voluntary doesnt exactly mean the same thing here either. What great facilities are available to the average citizen? Especially those not based in/around Dublin?

dirtyden

_Brian wrote: »

If you don't like tue country or the system there are three legitimate options.
Get elected and do something about it, move the **** away, or shut up with the moaning.

While we don't live in an ideal system Ireland is a great country where we enjoy great facilities and wonderful freedoms, public healthcare is good, education is good, and in general it's safe to go about your business.

Big swing, you had to make a few trips to get what you needed.

Hardly worth taking to the internet over it !!

Spot on.

Someone moaning about needing an eye test so that we know they are safe on the road, and whinging as they have to pay for it? There are a lot of whingers in this country who need to do a little bit of growing up.

BlinkingLights

Op: if you think Irish bureaucracy is excessive, never, ever, ever move to France or Belgium!!

Any dealings with the local administration systems needed about two days off work.

Ireland is an efficient dream of a place on comparison.

I also had the nightmarish experience of applying for a Spanish version of a PPS.
You simply had to make an appointment with the police. Bring all your forms in triplicate. Any error in this and you'd wait another 2 months for a second appointment as they wouldn't offer any kind of photocopying facility. You also had to queue down the street in the rain, go through metal detectors and for added intimation, they had two police officers walking up and down with Alsatians!

Dirty Dingus McGee

Sosurface wrote: »

So I had to sit the motorcycle theory test today. This involved first going to get passport type photos done. Not free of course. Then attend the test centre, complete the test, seperate fee for this too. Test complete its off to the opticians. Another form, another test, another fee. Then you have to attend a licence centre or whatever its called, again in a different location. Another form, another fee and they POST the licence out.All the while zig zagging across town to these stupid places.

What the actual f*ck like? Is there a more stupid, wasteful system in operation anywhere? Seems like the only goal being achieved here is letting as many sticky fingers as possible get a slice of the pie.

Next up is "mandatory" IBT 2 day course at €400 which of course is located a convenient €40 taxi fare away from the city centre with no public transport available.

why should it be free to get a passport photo done and eye test doen as part of this?

Why shouldn't the test have a separate fee to cover the cost of it?

_Brian

Sosurface wrote: »

Public healthcare is good? Oh boy you live in one insulated laa laa land. Another story for another thread. Education is good? If you happen to be a practicing catholic who doesnt deviate frim the norm in any possible way and are willing to accept that free is not always free by the Irish definition and voluntary doesnt exactly mean the same thing here either. What great facilities are available to the average citizen? Especially those not based in/around Dublin?

People just need to get up of their asses and there are lots of facilities for them to enjoy.

The country is full of sports facilities catering for every sport going. There are parks and gardens and forests open free to enjoy. Mega play grounds free in every town to really high standards.

I work and pay private healthcare and have never needed for anything, never waited for examinations or procedures.

Education is there if people pull their horns in and use it, we have the highest or nearly highest access rates to third level courses in Europe.

Life is often what you make it and the opportunities you take, sitting back and moaning about little inconveniences is pointless.

Sosurface

_Brian wrote: »

People just need to get up of their asses and there are lots of facilities for them to enjoy.

The country is full of sports facilities catering for every sport going. There are parks and gardens and forests open free to enjoy. Mega play grounds free in every town to really high standards.

I work and pay private healthcare and have never needed for anything, never waited for examinations or procedures.

Education is there if people pull their horns in and use it, we have the highest or nearly highest access rates to third level courses in Europe.

Life is often what you make it and the opportunities you take, sitting back and moaning about little inconveniences is pointless.

So you made a comment about public healthcare being good and in your next comnent state you dont actually use it.

BlinkingLights

I have to say I renewed my driving licence here recently and it was very straight forward. Appointment online, no delay when I got there I was called at the time I booked.

Booth/desk had equipment to take my photo and record my signature.

Licence arrived a few days later.

I suspect a lot of this is down to motorbike usage in Ireland being extremely low compared to most of continental Europe. That's likely to mean the test facilities aren't as widespread as car driving testing.

please helpThank YOU

Sosurface wrote: »

So I had to sit the motorcycle theory test today. This involved first going to get passport type photos done. Not free of course. Then attend the test centre, complete the test, seperate fee for this too. Test complete its off to the opticians. Another form, another test, another fee. Then you have to attend a licence centre or whatever its called, again in a different location. Another form, another fee and they POST the licence out.All the while zig zagging across town to these stupid places.

What the actual f*ck like? Is there a more stupid, wasteful system in operation anywhere? Seems like the only goal being achieved here is letting as many sticky fingers as possible get a slice of the pie.

Next up is "mandatory" IBT 2 day course at €400 which of course is located a convenient €40 taxi fare away from the city centre with no public transport available.

Jobs for the Boys and Girls Man made fake rules so people can get rich .

Sosurface

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

why should it be free to get a passport photo done and eye test doen as part of this?

Why shouldn't the test have a separate fee to cover the cost of it?

I dont think any of you are grasping the blatant process ineffiency here. All steps could be done in one place at a fraction of the time cost to user and financial cost to state. This **** is endemic across all state bodies in Ireland. But I guess what else could be expected from a country who consistently views teachers and accountants as ideal leaders.

BlinkingLights

Sosurface wrote: »

So you made a comment about public healthcare being good and in your next comnent state you dont actually use it.

Public healthcare here is good *IF* you're in the system already. The killer here is access to the system. It can take far too long to get access to diagnostic tests and the A&E system is absolutely clogged.

There's a huge issue in Ireland with his primary care operates - mostly GPs who work out of private offices without any facilities. In many European countries it's all local health clinics that can do most of the simple functions of an A&E and can do a lot of basic diagnostic testing and even things like delivery of chemotherapy infusions (as per hospital instructions) without dragging people into their regional high tech hospital as Ireland does.

I've had a few experiences of the irish public system and they've been fairly positive WHEN it's accessible. For example my aunt is a public cancer patent and she's getting pheromonal services and access to very good drugs and tech. Also my sis in law had a baby at CUMH in Cork and it was all flawless and facility was nice.

Then a buddy of mine was waiting 6 months for a potentially urgent cardiac scan which should have been available as a walk in service and is in the private sector and most European public systems.

The access to ENT facilities here is abysmally bad too. I've an ear problem and I had to wait 2 months as a private patient to get my ear cleaned out by microsuction. I ended up having to go to A&E to get access as I was in agony and nobody would see me. I tried GP, ENT departments, public hospital and private hospital. Eventually used the ENT emergency service in the South Infirmary in Cork which isn't walk in.

Public ENT appointments can take months or years and private ones still take months!!

It's so bad I'm seriously thinking of going to a private consultant in London as I need reliable access to these services and I'm willing to pay for them. Insane that I have to contemplate doing that.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Sosurface wrote: »

I dont think any of you are grasping the blatant process ineffiency here. All steps could be done in one place at a fraction of the time cost to user and financial cost to state. This **** is endemic across all state bodies in Ireland. But I guess what else could be expected from a country who consistently views teachers and accountants as ideal leaders.

So you think driver test centres should have an optician on site at all times?

That would be highly inefficient i would imagine as they would be twiddling their thumbs for a lot of the time.

Sosurface

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

So you think driver test centres should have an optician on site at all times?

That would be highly inefficient i would imagine as they would be twiddling their thumbs for a lot of the time.

Arent eye tests mandatory for all driving licences?

ToddyDoody

It's all the EU's fault of course.

cameramonkey

infogiver wrote: »

I work with a lot of Eastern Europeans and they tell me that they thought there was a lot of form filling under the old regime at home, but it pales in comparison to here.

I have lived in Eastern Europe, in Russia and in a former Eastern Block country. Ireland is a relatively free from bureaucracy compared to those two states anyway.

It's a bit like when people say we have a third world health service, I immediately know that they are spoofing, if you have been to a third world country then you would never say such a thing.

Yourself isit

Sosurface wrote: »

So I had to sit the motorcycle theory test today. This involved first going to get passport type photos done. Not free of course. Then attend the test centre, complete the test, seperate fee for this too. Test complete its off to the opticians. Another form, another test, another fee. Then you have to attend a licence centre or whatever its called, again in a different location. Another form, another fee and they POST the licence out.All the while zig zagging across town to these stupid places.

What the actual f*ck like? Is there a more stupid, wasteful system in operation anywhere? Seems like the only goal being achieved here is letting as many sticky fingers as possible get a slice of the pie.

Next up is "mandatory" IBT 2 day course at €400 which of course is located a convenient €40 taxi fare away from the city centre with no public transport available.

Except for the theory centre being a different place to the license centre I dont see any issue here or how it could be different in any other country. Were you expecting an optician on site? A photographer?

Does any other country have a full time optician as part of their driving license?

And of course they post out the license. It needs to be printed first. If they asked you to wait you'd also complain.

Yourself isit

Sosurface wrote: »

I dont think any of you are grasping the blatant process ineffiency here. All steps could be done in one place at a fraction of the time cost to user and financial cost to state. This **** is endemic across all state bodies in Ireland. But I guess what else could be expected from a country who consistently views teachers and accountants as ideal leaders.

It actually wouldn't be more efficient to have an optician on site. Those exams take half an hour at least. The state would have to employ dozens to deal with the queues.

Sosurface

Yourself isit wrote: »

It actually wouldn't be more efficient to have an optician on site. Those exams take half an hour at least. The state would have to employ dozens to deal with the queues.

Honestly I was in the opticians for less than 10 minutes total. And the cost aspect was minimal. €10 in Specsavers. Prob the least hassle part of the whole episode. Now that was fine and I mean for me, I could have spaced out these appointments over a few days and got to them in my own time. Many people here dont actually live in urban centres where they would to access to all seperate facilities in the same place. Meaning more frequent journeys (and remember you're not legally allowed to operate a vehicle yet) or running around trying to get everything done on one trip to an urban centre, if you work most likely a Saturday where you have until 2pm to get this done Or take a day off work which is a whole other form of waste.

Sosurface

Yourself isit wrote: »

Except for the theory centre being a different place to the license centre I dont see any issue here or how it could be different in any other country. Were you expecting an optician on site? A photographer?

Does any other country have a full time optician as part of their driving license?

And of course they post out the license. It needs to be printed first. If they asked you to wait you'd also complain.

Do you need to be a photographer to take a photograph?

Yourself isit

Sosurface wrote: »

Honestly I was in the opticians for less than 10 minutes total. And the cost aspect was minimal. €10 in Specsavers. Prob the least hassle part of the whole episode. Now that was fine and I mean for me, I could have spaced out these appointments over a few days and got to them in my own time. Many people here dont actually live in urban centres where they would to access to all seperate facilities in the same place. Meaning more frequent journeys (and remember you're not legally allowed to operate a vehicle yet) or running around trying to get everything done on one trip to an urban centre, if you work most likely a Saturday where you have until 2pm to get this done Or take a day off work which is a whole other form of waste.

It's ten minutes at best. For people with issues they didn't know about its going to be more.

I doubt if any country has opticians on site in a driving centre. It's like asking all companies to have full time medical staff just for a medical report for new employees.

Yourself isit

Sosurface wrote: »

Do you need to be a photographer to take a photograph?

There's a standard format.

They could have a booth in there. Alternatively you could find a booth in pretty much any chemist in the country and many other places.

Sonics2k

Yourself isit wrote: »

Except for the theory centre being a different place to the license centre I dont see any issue here or how it could be different in any other country. Were you expecting an optician on site? A photographer?

Does any other country have a full time optician as part of their driving license?

And of course they post out the license. It needs to be printed first. If they asked you to wait you'd also complain.

Let's be fair here, if they can take your photo in the booth at the NDLS then they can take your photo in the booth when you do the Theory test.

I recently did the same process as the OP, despite having a full car license.

I had to get the photos done, go and the theory test and drive across Cork and stop in to the NDLS who will then post my bike license out to me.

Don't get me wrong, it was actually quite an efficient process in each centre. I was in the Theory Test centre for maybe 20 minutes including test time, and in the NDLS for about 30.

There is however absolutely no reason they can't take your photo in the theory test center, just like at the NDLS and then post your license out to you.

Having two centres for a very similar job is not exactly an efficient use of time or costs for the people or the State.

Realt Dearg Sec

Jesus is typical boards stuff, someone points out an obvious, glaring and easily solved problem and he's ate for it. Lads claiming we'd need an optician in the licence center, ffs. Someone mentioned America earlier, I've been through both the American and Irish licence prices, Ireland is a joke. In America it is a one hour prices from coming in the door to getting a licence, and that was just too get a permit that included an online test. One person gave you your forms, she took the eye test (no need for a ****ing optician, either you can see the letters or you can't, she doesn't need to actually cut you new glasses, geniuses), she took the photo (imagine that, just having such cutting edge technology on site instead of sending you away to spend another seven quid in another place for no reason), and she sent you to the computer to do your theory test, then lo and behold, she issued you your certificate and a week later you got a card.
There's a lot of moaning done about Ireland that isn't fair on the country, but getting a licence is such an absolute rigmarole in Ireland, for no good reason other than its handier for the people behind the desk to have you running around the place gathering **** that could easily all be done under one roof (different venue (and of course separate exorbitant fees) for photographs, theory test, forms, eye test). Sometimes it's right to complain, but of course the knee jerk reaction on boards is to say that people are moaning unreasonably, and they must think we should have an optician in every licence center...

BlinkingLights

Sosurface wrote: »

Arent eye tests mandatory for all driving licences?

Only if you claim not to need glasses/lenses.

Yourself isit

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Jesus is typical boards stuff, someone points out an obvious, glaring and easily solved problem and he's ate for it. Lads claiming we'd need an optician in the licence center, ffs.

That was what he was complaining about. That he had to go to a seperate building to get his eye test.

Someone mentioned America earlier, I've been through both the American and Irish licence prices, Ireland is a joke. In America it is a one hour prices from coming in the door to getting a licence, and that was just too get a permit that included an online test. One person gave you your forms, she took the eye test (no need for a ****ing optician, either you can see the letters or you can't, she doesn't need to actually cut you new glasses, geniuses), she took the photo (imagine that, just having such cutting edge technology on site instead of sending you away to spend another seven quid in another place for no reason), and she sent you to the computer to do your theory test, then lo and behold, she issued you your certificate and a week later you got a card.
There's a lot of moaning done about Ireland that isn't fair on the country, but getting a licence is such an absolute rigmarole in Ireland, for no good reason other than its handier for the people behind the desk to have you running around the place gathering **** that could easily all be done under one roof (different venue (and of course separate exorbitant fees) for photographs, theory test, forms, eye test). Sometimes it's right to complain, but of course the knee jerk reaction on boards is to say that people are moaning unreasonably, and they must think we should have an optician in every licence center...

My experience with the DMV was it took weeks. It was a zoo.

Sosurface

Yourself isit wrote: »

That was what he was complaining about. That he had to go to a seperate building to get his eye test.



My experience with the DMV was it took weeks. It was a zoo.

No I had to go to 4 seperate buildings respectively for a photograph, eye test, theory test and licence. So you were arguing having not read/understood the problem?

Realt Dearg Sec

Yourself isit wrote: »

[

That was what he was complaining about. That he had to go to a seperate building to get his eye test.

.

I know. That's what I was saying, there's no necessity for going to a different place. In the DMV the eye test equipment is set up at the counter, you look into the thing and name the letters, you only need to go to an optician if you can't name the letters. It's perfectly simple. This thing of requiring a full eye test has a whiff of a money racket off it.

Sosurface

Sosurface wrote: »

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

So you think driver test centres should have an optician on site at all times?

That would be highly inefficient i would imagine as they would be twiddling their thumbs for a lot of the time.

Arent eye tests mandatory for all driving licences?

Not for the majority of renewals etc only getting it for the first time or over a certain age.

This op is getting his licence for the first time, that's the process I don't see why a once off process should be made so simple that it can be done in one place. It would be pointless when it can be done in seperate places with only a bit of effort, why should it be made simpler?