Building a house together

LegacyUser

Hi, OP here.

Many thanks to all those who have taken the time to reply. It has certainly given me some food for thought.

I guess the first point to address is that my own personal and family circumstances shouldn't really come into it as one or two posters have alluded to. I am probably a little on the older side to be remaining at home however it was a convenient arrangement for all involved and thankfully I have an understanding family. Yes, this has allowed me to save substantially versus renting for the last 5 years. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to live ones life. I have come to the realisation that it is now time to move on and accept that. This isn't in question.

My OH has her own savings and has worked very hard for them. From her perspective she has no issue with putting forward her own savings towards a home at some stage however if I am the legal owner and she has invested thousands in furnishings for example and the relationship does not proceed as planned it creates a very messy situation and it is something I want to avoid her her sake aswell as my own.

As another poster alluded to I am trying to look at the whole situation very rationally. The reality is, we have not lived together, we both want to protect our assets that we have worked hard for. She has worked hard and has been employed since she was a teenager, she is certainly not a "kept woman" and would never want to become one.

I do not view the situation as her being a "kept woman". I am able to take the financial responsibility in this instance by choice, not because she is unable but because it is what is practical and my personal circumstances have meant that is now a viable option. Of course she does not want to contribute significantly if her investment is not secure, I think most people would accept this as a rational point of view and I certainly understand that but at this juncture I am not asking for her to contribute anything.

If I was successful in planning and constructing a home and having lived together and marriage was the next step I would have absolutely no issue in her investing her savings as she pleases. Whether that be paying off a portion of the mortgage, completing renovations or adding an extension etc. I have made this clear. Regardless of what she has invested after marriage or extended cohabitation she has her own rights to the property.

This idea has been on the agenda for quite a long time, it is not new, and it hasn't been sprung on her out of the blue.

The area where we both grew up, went to school, where both our familes live, where we both work currently and are quite likely to in the future are all within 20-25 minutes of each other and we are both quite happy here insofar as we have never had aspirations to carry out a drastic move to get away from the area. We both get on very well with each others families and she has never given any indication that she would have any issue living in the proposed area.

I guess the poster who mentioned hedging my bets was correct to a certain degree. When making a decision as big as this, emotions are likely going to come into it but it really has to be looked at as rationally as possible.

I am a big believer in compromise. However, at the moment I am left in a position whereby I have offered compromise by seeking to rent somewhere but the answer I am getting is that this is not a possibility and will not be for 2-3 years. Other than building a home the only other option I have is to try and find somewhere reasonable to rent. I don't see the merit in renting if I am to do it alone.

Thanks again for all the contributions.

ShaShaBear

Buffman wrote: »

I think some of the responses here have missed or ignored this issue.

I think it's unreasonable for one partner to refuse to move or discuss a timeframe, but yet still seek to control the living arrangements of the other partner.

I think the main issue the OH's girlfriend has is that she is expected to move into this house with the OP, but she's not allowed to make any decisions on how it is built or even offer to finance it. She's well within her rights to stay at home and save, just like the OP clearly did. But they are not building a house "together". He is building a house. He's stated several times that he is offering her absolutely no input, but expects her to share the house nonetheless. Obviously it's all about interpretation here and people will read it differently, but it reads more to me that the OP seeks to control his girlfriend's living arrangements, not the other way around.

meeeeh

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I think the main issue the OH's girlfriend has is that she is expected to move into this house with the OP, but she's not allowed to make any decisions on how it is built or even offer to finance it. She's well within her rights to stay at home and save, just like the OP clearly did. But they are not building a house "together". He is building a house. He's stated several times that he is offering her absolutely no input, but expects her to share the house nonetheless. Obviously it's all about interpretation here and people will read it differently, but it reads more to me that the OP seeks to control his girlfriend's living arrangements, not the other way around.

Which is exactly how much imput people have in houses that are build by builder on plans designed by a third person. Op said that he intends to take her opinion into account. Op would be as much controlling her living arrangements as she is currently controlling lack of their living arrangements. They are together five years and they never lived together, one can stand still only for so long.

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meeeeh

....... wrote: »

Dont be silly, that is not a valid comparison at all.

If you are building a house you specify how many rooms you want, what aspect, layout of interior etc.... Someone doesnt just build you something that you have not agreed to!

Fine but considering op offered cohabiting and she did not want to do it, how long should he wait for her to make up her mind.

bee06

....... wrote: »

Dont be silly, that is not a valid comparison at all.

If you are building a house you specify how many rooms you want, what aspect, layout of interior etc.... Someone doesnt just build you something that you have not agreed to!

The OP has already said he wants to involve her in the build and interior design decisions. It's the financial part she won't be inputting into.

LirW

meeeeh wrote: »

Fine but considering op offered cohabiting and she did not want to do it, how long should he wait for her to make up her mind.

In all fairness, they live in the area of Dublin, we all know how horrible it is to find rental accommodation here, she's about to finish college and this is a very busy time, I can understand that she doesn't want to bite more than she can chew at the moment.

bee06

build.a.furure wrote: »

@groovyg - I agree with you entirely. I would have no issue moving out and agree wholly that living with someone is a completely different kettle of fish than spending time on holidays. She doesn't share the same viewpoint so when I suggest that we should live together first it is looked at as if I am somehow doubting our relationship.

For me, this is actually the main issue. How anyone could see living together as questioning your relationship is beyond me.

Big Bag of Chips

If my partner of 5 years had made it clear to me that he was building a house, on his own, on his own family's land, and that he was wanted to do it without financial input from me and without entitling me to any stake or claim to the house then I would have to consider moving in with him too. I'd think he's not that serious about the relationship and he doesn't see a long term future in it.

He wants all the security while giving her none. Of course the future isn't certain, but nobody sets out with one eye on splitting up, and if they do, then the relationship mightn't be strong enough to last the distance anyway.

I think you need to talk this through, properly with each other. Put yourself in her shoes and try to see where she's coming from. She should do the same. Just because you're suddenly ready NOW doesn't mean she's automatically on the same wavelength. I don't see why that's a bad thing.

I think you both should probably make an appointment to speak to a solicitor to see what your options are.

witchgirl26

bee06 wrote: »

The OP has already said he wants to involve her in the build and interior design decisions. It's the financial part she won't be inputting into.

That can be a massive thing though. I have input into my current home in terms of interior design but I do feel the less partner in it because I didn't contribute financially. Especially at the start there was an element of feeling like I should defer if there was a difference in idea of design because it was his house. That can lead to a lot of problems. Thankfully not for myself and my other half as we talked it out but there's still an element there.

bee06

witchgirl26 wrote: »

That can be a massive thing though. I have input into my current home in terms of interior design but I do feel the less partner in it because I didn't contribute financially. Especially at the start there was an element of feeling like I should defer if there was a difference in idea of design because it was his house. That can lead to a lot of problems. Thankfully not for myself and my other half as we talked it out but there's still an element there.

I totally agree but I wanted to clarify because there were some posters who were saying he wasn't going to let her have any input.

woodchuck

bee06 wrote: »

I totally agree but I wanted to clarify because there were some posters who were saying he wasn't going to let her have any input.

I'm sorry, but letting someone pick the colour paint to go on the walls isn't a proper input. Interior design is fleeting and can be easily changed. Bigger things like the design of the structure itself, where it's going to be built, the financial investment etc would count as actual input in my mind.

Sorry OP, don't kid yourself that you're doing her a favour by financing this and "letting" her live there. It's a very insecure position for her to be in.

I know you feel frustrated essentially being stuck in the mud. But is there any harm putting your plans on hold for a while until you're both in a position to rent together? I definitely think this is important before you build/buy a place together. And by building on your own, I think you could be sabotaging this relationship. You just need to ask yourself what's more important to you: to have this house now, or delay it and take a chance on your future with this woman.

silverharp

At the end of the day its your vision and dream OP, financially its a no brainer to go ahead with this project as it will make your life far more comfortable down the road, nice house and not stuck with a 30 year mortgage. As things stand you are talking around 18 months give or take before it would be finished and it sounds like you wouldn't have moved in together before then regardless of what is happening. When its finished and if all is still good you could invite her to move in with you and work out some temporary financial arrangement, your gf might even have the means to buy a small apartment and rent it out as an investment to pay the mortgage
In very general terms its something myself and my wife did before we were married, I had the opportunity to "leverage" a family asset but we already had been living together and had paid off our first house when living abroad. To balance things out my wife to be bought an apartment and it worked out great.

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beertons

Rent for a while with her. If you get on fine after a year, build and see if she'll move with you. If she doesn't, least you have a house.

buswankers

beertons wrote: »

Rent for a while with her. If you get on fine after a year, build and see if she'll move with you. If she doesn't, least you have a house.

OP has stated numerous times that he'd be happy to rent with her but that she has made it clear she will not be in the same position for 2-3 years!

bee06

....... wrote: »

Colour schemes etc are kind of unimportant in the scheme of things.

Where the house is and who is financing it are the big deals.

Its going to be on his families land, meaning it can probably never be sold to anyone bar a family member of his. Plus she gets to live on their land - who really wants to live next door to their inlaws?

If the OP goes ahead with it it could preclude him from ever being able to buy a home with someone elsewhere than the families land because he will be tied to it not only by the mortgage but by the land itself.

I know loads of people who have build houses next to their in laws without any issues.

The main issue is the OP and his girlfriend are not in the same page regarding even living together in the near future never mind building the house. They seem to be unable to discuss it in a rational way either if she makes the assumption that wanting to live together means there is some kind of doubt in their relationship.

Big Bag of Chips

bee06 wrote: »

They seem to be unable to discuss it in a rational way either if she makes the assumption that wanting to live together means there is some kind of doubt in their relationship.

Of course that depends on how it was proposed to her! If OP implied something along the lines of "I think we should rent together for a while before I decide whether or not to let you move into my house, on my land, built with my money" then I can see why she'd assume there's a doubt over the relationship!

Living together before committing to a mortgage is obviously the sensible thing to do. But OP seems to want to live together for a trial run and then not allow her to financially contribute to "their house" leaving her in a very unstable position.

Talking to each other, and a solicitor seems the only way forward.

Tiddlypeeps

I think your only option is to rent together for a while. If she won't agree to that I can't see the relationship working out.

Jointly owning property together before even living together would be very dumb imo, I don't think OP considers it an option and for good reason.

OP building on their own will very likely lead to the end of the relationship as the girlfriend will likely have a huge amount of resentment if she even sticks around long enough to see it built.

Staying put at the parents house (or even going and renting solo) will likely lead to the OP having a huge amount of resentment towards the girlfriend which would likely lead to the relationship falling apart.

I think the only way that doesn't' have a high probability of causing the relationship to fall apart is convincing the girlfriend that the only reasonable thing to do for now is to move into a rented place together. If she won't do that then OP should carry on with the solo build option. The girlfriends unwillingness to compromise at that point will likely be the downfall of the relationship so the OP might aswell carry on with their dream plan.

silverharp

bee06 wrote: »

I know loads of people who have build houses next to their in laws without any issues.

The main issue is the OP and his girlfriend are not in the same page regarding even living together in the near future never mind building the house. They seem to be unable to discuss it in a rational way either if she makes the assumption that wanting to live together means there is some kind of doubt in their relationship.

absolutely , the "granny flat" extension has always been a thing in the more expensive parts of Dublin which is closer again than a separate plot.

a hunch based on no evidence is that because from her perspective they met young, she ~19/20 maybe she feels she missed out on the dating scene? or thinks she can do better? and maybe hasn't made the full leap to "this is the one" like the OP? (apologies OP not trying to mess with your head, but its the risk of asking for online advice )

LegacyUser

Thanks for the continued input.

Regarding the land. The intention is that once planning and permission had been sought and approved that it would be gifted to me before I proceeded., it would then legally belong to me as I understand it. There is a liklihood that I would be required to remain as the owner for several years but there is nothing preventing the sale of both the land and house down the line so this is not an issue.

Although I haven't gotten professional advice I believe their may be some CGT implications for my OH as well if she were to be financially involved from the outset as a result of the transfer of land. Again I am not fully sure of this aspect and it has only been highlighted to me recently. I had never considered it before. It would be something we would need clarification on.

I can understand the posts that are looking at it from the other perspective and it is certainly food for thought. There are many ways to skin a cat but with a decision as important as this, it cannot be rushed.

As I've stated numerous times at this stage, she has no intentions of moving out until a time that suits her and her circumstances and while I don't resent her for it, I don't feel it is fair for me to be hamstrung by it at the same time. As someone said earlier, you can't have your cake and eat it.

The most amicable solution is to rent somewhere and while it is neither of our preferred options at this moment in time, she is far less receptive to the idea.

meeeeh

You are right about CGT. I could be only guarantor on the mortgage because we were not married.

amtc

Don't mix up the guarantor on mortgage with cgt. Of course can be on mortgage. Cgt is a completely different thing...and she will be subject to it.

meeeeh

amtc wrote: »

Don't mix up the guarantor on mortgage with cgt. Of course can be on mortgage. Cgt is a completely different thing...and she will be subject to it.

At the time I would be liable for cgt. While oh could get a gift of land from his parents I would have to pay cgt.

bee06

If you were for transfer the land to have it in both your names with would be CGT implication for the person transferring and Capital Aquisitions tax (CAT) for her. About 33% for values above the thresholds I I remember correctly.

Then if the site is only in your name, most banks won't accept this. I was told by our mortgage broker that AIB are the only bank who do a joint mortgage/sole title (mortgage in both names, deeds in yours). She would have to sign a letter witnessed by a solicitor to say she understands the risks of being on the mortgage but not on the deeds.

jimmycrackcorm

woodchuck wrote:

Sorry OP, don't kid yourself that you're doing her a favour by financing this and "letting" her live there. It's a very insecure position for her to be in.

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If the OP had already owned a house then this wouldn't be an issue. So it shouldn't make any difference now.

Also it has to be said that they are both young and there's as much of a chance of the relationship not working out as in ending up in marriage.

If the OP's girlfriend really is in it fit the long haul then him going ahead with building the house at this stage when they are single won't be an actual issue. At the moment it only feels like a sleight.

Buffman

build.a.future wrote: »

Although I haven't gotten professional advice I believe their may be some CGT implications for my OH as well if she were to be financially involved from the outset as a result of the transfer of land. Again I am not fully sure of this aspect and it has only been highlighted to me recently. I had never considered it before. It would be something we would need clarification on.

Hi OP, there may be a number of potential very expensive consequences for all parties of transfering half the site to a non-family member. I'd strongly recommend you seek financial/tax advice if going down that route.

It's a complex area (and beware of free internet advice ) but basically your parents may loose the 'Transfer of a site from parent to child' exemption from CGT and be liable for a 33% tax on the value of that half of the site. For the Group C beneficiary of the site, they may be liable to a 33% CAT on the value of their half of the site above the threshold. (Currently €16,250 for C)

Obviously these amounts all depend the site valuation, but from a quick look at Dublin sites on Daft, it's a potentially massive tax liability to risk just for 'emotional' reasons. That's why my first advice on this thread was 'emotions should be somewhat kept in check when dealing with life changing decisions/sums of money.'

build.a.future wrote: »

As I've stated numerous times at this stage, she has no intentions of moving out until a time that suits her and her circumstances and while I don't resent her for it, I don't feel it is fair for me to be hamstrung by it at the same time. As someone said earlier, you can't have your cake and eat it.

I think that was me, but yes, that's the main issue. How can anyone expect to be involved in building a house when they won't even agree to the concept of building a house? It's a 'which came first, the chicken or the egg?' situation.

You have been completely up front and honest about your building plans for a long time OP, yet there are completely mixed signals and no compromise coming from your GF. She doesn't want to move in with you 'at the moment' and hasn't even agreed that she might ever want to build with you, but still doesn't want you to move on and build without her. It's her that's 'hedging her bets' IMO.

As I said previously, it would be interesting to hear her view on what she would've liked to have happened if you were already a homeowner before you started dating?

build.a.future wrote: »

The most amicable solution is to rent somewhere and while it is neither of our preferred options at this moment in time, she is far less receptive to the idea.

Yes, that may only be a short term solution though, as if you can't agree on even a rough plan for the future long term living arrangements, what's the point?

Mr. Incognito

All relationships are compromise.

Your position: Qualified. Fully cooked. Ready to go. Anxious to build.

Her position: Not fully qualified. Working towards that. Not in full time professional qualification. Probably wants the security of home until she is permanent and an income stream is secured and wants to concentrate on her studies.

You have three options.

1. Compromise. Continue to save. Wait until she is qualified. Then you will both presumably have a professional income. You both build house.

2. You start to build house. She may or may not come round to the idea. But make no doubt it will ALWAYS be your house, Not both of yours if you do this.

3. Rent together until she is qualified and then begin to build the house.

Personally I'd go for one. If she is qualified and still refusing the move out of home I'd proceed to 2. The land is not going anywhere.
Also for tax reasons transfer prior to planning permission. But take specialist advice on this.

LegacyUser

Hi all, OP here.

@Buffman, thank you for your informative post regarding the CGT implications. It most certainly warrants further professional investigation and advice and may have bigger implications for all parties involved than I thought beforehand. Thank you for the links and for your previous posts.

Thank you to all of you who gave honest considered rational advice. It has certainly given me food for thought and while it was reassuring to a certain extent to see I am not completely off the mark with my train of thought, there was several others who highlighted issues if the shoe was on the other foot so to speak and this also warrants further considered thought.

I'm fortunate in so far as I am not being pushed into any decision by anyone other than myself at the moment which gives me some breathing room. I fully grasp the enormity of such a project and won't be committing unless everything is in place.

A honest and frank conversation needs to happen with my OH and I and ultimately I think we need to rent together somewhere first for a period of time or else I need to get the wheels in motion regarding planning and construction. The option of further delaying leaving the family home is becoming unfeasible.

I think everything that needs to be said has been said and I think the thread has ran its course. If I mod can close it please.

Thanks again to everyone for your input, it has been refreshing and informative.