Indoor food hall planned for Market Street

joeKel73

Plans will be submitted to Galway City Council in the coming months for a 200-room hotel and an indoor food hall on Market Street in the city on the combined Market Street Car Park and Connacht Tribune sites.

The food hall will cover 17,000 square feet under a double height ceiling and will be modelled on similar food markets in Europe.

The company expects to submit a full planning application during the summer.

Full Story: http://connachttribune.ie/indoor-market-hall-hotel-planned-market-street-site-322/

joeKel73

Bing Maps' Bird's Eye view of Market Street for comparison...

What is in the shed to the left of the car park now?
Is it part of the tribune site as it is included in the plan.

The building looks slightly less out of place than the one proposed on Bohermore.

ScumLord

Something that would go down well in Galway. The spot is nice and central for locals, but as with all things Galway until they figure out the traffic I'll be avoiding it. I won't go into Galway unless I absolutely have to these days. The N17 is like a never ending meetup of the slowest drivers in the country.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What is in the shed to the left of the car park now?
Is it part of the tribune site as it is included in the plan..

I noticed that shed the other day and though that it looked new or different.

Google maps street view from 2014 shows it as a row of old houses, but looking at it in satellite view ( which is now dated 2017) it looks like one big building.

biko

Food market - great, it'll be there or Hynes Yard I hope.
Another hotel - blergh but what can ya do..

ronnie3585

I always thought Silke's would be a perfect location for such a market.

joeKel73

A search for "Royal Horizon Ltd" brought up this letter to the council planning department in March 2016 in relation to the draft city development plan.

It has more detail on their intention to use the site for a food market.

http://apps.galwaycity.ie/DevPlanSubmissions/DPP.17.106.pdf

Deleted User wrote: »

What is in the shed to the left of the car park now?
Is it part of the tribune site as it is included in the plan.

Yes that seems to be part of the same site...

The parcel has a long established use for a car parking (30 years +) and includes an adjoining shed / industrial building along the southern boundary.

what_traffic

ScumLord wrote: »

The spot is nice and central for locals, but as with all things Galway until they figure out the traffic I'll be avoiding it.

The 120 Car Parking spaces in the Underground Car Park of the proposed Development wont help here either.

Zzippy

Looks like the car park entrance/exit will be on the Bowling Green side from that graphic. Between cars possibly queueing to get in, and cars stopping at the front entrance to drop off guests, the whole area could get gridlocked very quickly. They could remove all on-street parking on Market St. to make an extra lane, but they would probably have to offer spaces to residents to compensate.

ronnie3585

Zzippy wrote: »

Looks like the car park entrance/exit will be on the Bowling Green side from that graphic. Between cars possibly queueing to get in, and cars stopping at the front entrance to drop off guests, the whole area could get gridlocked very quickly. They could remove all on-street parking on Market St. to make an extra lane, but they would probably have to offer spaces to residents to compensate.

It's very hard escape the fact that it's one of the busiest, narrowest roads in the city. Any development would have a negative impact on the already chronic traffic.

Mrs OBumble

How on earth would coaches get to the hotel?

Or delivery wagons for the food market, for that matter.

Does anyone influential live in Bowling Green? I cannot see residents there being happy with the idea.

The car entrance is on Market Street - in the top right hand corner of the picture. There might be a service entrance to the rear.

120 spaces is only about 40 more than is currently on that site - the current car park is for short stays and does generate congestion as people wait for spaces to turn over.

Edit: There is on street parking or loading bays on both sides of Market Street - set down areas will presumably be available.

I imagine it would be a tight squeeze for a 52 seat coach to get out of there - maybe coach tourists might not be the target customer.

Food service trucks presumably already service the businesses in the area.

joeKel73

This was intended as a good news thread! An indoor food market will be a a great addition to the city.

The city center is meant to be a lively urban environment with lots of different entertainment and food options - not a critical road network and access routes to massive car parks.

I'd rather see market street restricted to pedestrian and bike traffic. We need to let go of the demand to be able to drive directly to where we want to go and park outside it - it's a luxury that just doesn't scale with the city. Not every city center hotel can expect to facilitate lines of coaches pulling up outside.

The proposed market is 300m from Eyre Square - the central transport hub of the city, a 4min walk for most people.

ScumLord

what_traffic wrote: »

The 120 Car Parking spaces in the Underground Car Park of the proposed Development wont help here either.

Good point.

J o e wrote: »

This was intended as a good news thread! An indoor food market will be a a great addition to the city.

One of these markets would be ideal for Galway, as much as I say I would avoid it, it would be a big draw, I like to cook a bit and it's impossible to find decent ingredients, even stuff as basic as chillies, the best they do is a variety pack as a novelty which isn't much good for cooking.

I'd rather see market street restricted to pedestrian and bike traffic. We need to let go of the demand to be able to drive directly to where we want to go and park outside it - it's a luxury that just doesn't scale with the city.

If it's going to be a shop they're going to have to have access for cars or visitors will be restricted to one or two carry bags of shopping. Galway centre is already encouraging parking outside the centre and walking in. But they need to get access to that place for cars, even if it's just letting them in the back way and keeping the front pedestrian. To allow cars in means that whole area is going to need a rethink.

Mrs OBumble

J o e wrote: »

. Not every city center hotel can expect to facilitate lines of coaches pulling up outside.

The proposed market is 300m from Eyre Square - the central transport hub of the city, a 4min walk for most people.

There is a tourist demographic which happily drags wheelie bags to and from the coach station. But they usually stay in backpacker hostels, not hotels.

The only exception is stags and hens for whom the parade from the bus to the hotel is part of the weekend's entertainment. But you cannot run a hotel just on them.

seklly

ScumLord wrote: »

it's impossible to find decent ingredients, even stuff as basic as chillies

Try Terryland Fruit & Veg and Terryland Asian Foodmarket, I work nearby and use them regularly for chillies, spices etc.

connemara man

Would it be viable as a local traffic only area

Daisy78

So cars queuing to get into a carpark is okay. But not a hotel or food market? Have I missed something here?!! This would be a great addition to the city. If it is intended to be a boutique hotel I doubt they will be chasing the coach tours.

Arghus

Could be a great addition to the city.

gordongekko

biko wrote: »

Another hotel - blergh but what can ya do..

It could have been a coffee shop

We have actually lost a lot of hotel rooms in Galway.

Off the top of my head

Corrib great southern
Glen oaks
Foster court
And next year the Westwood

inisboffin

gordongekko wrote: »

It could have been a coffee shop

We have actually lost a lot of hotel rooms in Galway.

Off the top of my head

Corrib great southern
Glen oaks
Foster court
And next year the Westwood

Yeah, there is a gap in that middle market for hotels that Airbnb has pounced on. Hostels have increased but it's a slightly different market. The knock on effect is contributing to the shortage of rentals and increase with ruthless landlords. Looks like planning for the one on Shannon Dry Cleaners site won't happen for a while either.

Mrs OBumble

Daisy78 wrote: »

If it is intended to be a boutique hotel I doubt they will be chasing the coach tours.

If it was intended to be a boutique hotel, it would not have 200 rooms!


Galway is short of hotel rooms: the company I was working for last year had problems finding rooms for travelling staff even at this time of the year.

But that does not mean we should put them in crazy places without thinking thru the traffic issues.

Daisy78

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If it was intended to be a boutique hotel, it would not have 200 rooms!


Galway is short of hotel rooms: the company I was working for last year had problems finding rooms for travelling staff even at this time of the year.

But that does not mean we should put them in crazy places without thinking thru the traffic issues.

So what is the difference between hotel traffic and traffic accessing a car park?!

D Trent

gordongekko wrote: »

It could have been a coffee shop

We have actually lost a lot of hotel rooms in Galway.

Off the top of my head

Corrib great southern
Glen oaks
Foster court
And next year the Westwood

To add to that ;

Spinnaker Salthill
Sacre Couer Salthill
Warwick Salthill
Encore Ramada Oranmore
Amber House Hotel Doughiska
Currans hotel where TK Maxx is now

Mrs OBumble

Daisy78 wrote: »

So what is the difference between hotel traffic and traffic accessing a car park?!

How many coaches have you ever seen in the current Market St carpark?

youngrun

D Trent wrote: »

To add to that ;

Spinnaker Salthill
Sacre Couer Salthill
Warwick Salthill
Encore Ramada Oranmore
Amber House Hotel Doughiska
Currans hotel where TK Maxx is now

Not forgetting the Waterfront , Kingsvalley, American, Monterey and dont mention the Burrenmount...

thesandeman

Jaysus, if ye're going that far back don't forget The Beach, Kincora, Palm Court, Giblins, Ard Rí, Odeon....

Webbs

ScumLord wrote: »

If it's going to be a shop they're going to have to have access for cars or visitors will be restricted to one or two carry bags of shopping. Galway centre is already encouraging parking outside the centre and walking in. But they need to get access to that place for cars, even if it's just letting them in the back way and keeping the front pedestrian. To allow cars in means that whole area is going to need a rethink.

I thought the intention was to be something similar to Covent Garden or English Market in Cork.

Neither of those have access for cars.

I think it would be a great addition to Galway something that would really benefit the city

ScumLord

Webbs wrote: »

I thought the intention was to be something similar to Covent Garden or English Market in Cork.

It is but the English market in Cork was built during a different time, cars didn't exist, people walked everywhere and would have no choice but to go to the English market if they lived near by it.

I don't think a modern business, especially a speciality one can expect to exist on whoevers within walking distance, I don't know that the centre of Galway is known for people with enough money to buy gourmet food everyday.

People will travel for this place, my uncle travels from Galway to Cork on the train every few weeks to buy particular things he can't get anywhere else.

If it's not accessible they simply won't get enough people in the door.

joeKel73

ScumLord wrote: »

It is but the English market in Cork was built during a different time, cars didn't exist, people walked everywhere and would have no choice but to go to the English market if they lived near by it.

I don't think a modern business, especially a speciality one can expect to exist on whoevers within walking distance, I don't know that the centre of Galway is known for people with enough money to buy gourmet food everyday.

The English market is a thriving business today.

ScumLord wrote: »

People will travel for this place, my uncle travels from Galway to Cork on the train every few weeks to buy particular things he can't get anywhere else.

Your uncle has already solved the problem so...

ScumLord

J o e wrote: »

The English market is a thriving business today.

Because it's well established, everyone in the country knows it's there now. That doesn't mean you can just throw up a similar market anywhere and expect the same results. The Galway market would be starting from scratch, they need to take the modern world into account.

I'm not saying it will fail or that people won't go to it, I'm just saying they're not making things easy for themselves. If it's awkward to get to in a car they've already lost thousands of people from the city, nevermind the county. It will be a novelty for a lot of people and not the staple that the Cork one has become over hundreds of years.

They will have to hit the ground running with essential businesses that people are willing to travel to get to. I really don't think they'll be able to support themselves on whoever is within walking distance. I want to see a English market like Cork in Galway, I think it's perfectly suited to the city. but I know for a fact I wouldn't be using that one much if it's going to be a pain to get to it. I just wouldn't be able to justify driving into Galway and paying for parking just to buy a shopping bags worth of stuff.

If it's not financially viable it's going to fail. Bottom line.

xckjoo

ScumLord wrote: »

Because it's well established, everyone in the country knows it's there now. That doesn't mean you can just throw up a similar market anywhere and expect the same results. The Galway market would be starting from scratch, they need to take the modern world into account.

I'm not saying it will fail or that people won't go to it, I'm just saying they're not making things easy for themselves. If it's awkward to get to in a car they've already lost thousands of people from the city, nevermind the county. It will be a novelty for a lot of people and not the staple that the Cork one has become over hundreds of years.

They will have to hit the ground running with essential businesses that people are willing to travel to get to. I really don't think they'll be able to support themselves on whoever is within walking distance. I want to see a English market like Cork in Galway, I think it's perfectly suited to the city. but I know for a fact I wouldn't be using that one much if it's going to be a pain to get to it. I just wouldn't be able to justify driving into Galway and paying for parking just to buy a shopping bags worth of stuff.

If it's not financially viable it's going to fail. Bottom line.

It's already going to be a awkward to get to in a car because roads in Galway are completely choked with traffic because so many people drive absolutely everywhere.

Park in the Dyke Road car park and walk in. Baring a physical disability there's no excuse.

Mrs OBumble

J o e wrote: »

The English market is a thriving business today.

Your uncle has already solved the problem so...

I suspect that the Department of Social Protection (Free travel pass) department have a lot to do with that.

A new market wont thrive on pensioners alone.

And if it's planned to be year-round, it won't survive on tourists alone, either.

I don't think that market shoppers need to come almost all the way by car. But to justify using central city land for a market there will need to be some building overheard. And it's like that whatever goes into that building will need some vehicle access.

martinkop

Is this just putting the existing market under a roof and making it a bit bigger to accommodate the waiting list for spaces??
If so, then access will be as it currently is??

ScumLord

xckjoo wrote: »

Park in the Dyke Road car park and walk in. Baring a physical disability there's no excuse.

I can use whatever excuse I want, that's the thing, people will have a list of reasons why they wont go, it's up to the business to deal with those issues if they want people to come through the door.. You can't just expect people to show up.

They need customers, they need to entice people to come to them, and a lot of them. They can't just tell people to come and start saying things like only disabled people wouldn't be able to walk to us, that isn't going to get them any customers.

If they want it to be more than a temporary fad they need to be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible. No amount of telling people they should be willing to park here or get a train there is going to overcome that.

joeKel73

ScumLord wrote: »

They need customers, they need to entice people to come to them, and a lot of them.

They have the big advantage of being in the city centre. They are 120m from Shop Street, a very busy pedestrian street. They are also surrounded by loads of businesses with staff who will be looking for a tasty lunch.

Like any food market I'm sure they'll not be targeting the €150 trolley crowd, where you need a car nearby to offload the weekly haul.

xckjoo

ScumLord wrote: »

I can use whatever excuse I want, that's the thing, people will have a list of reasons why they wont go, it's up to the business to deal with those issues if they want people to come through the door.. You can't just expect people to show up.

They need customers, they need to entice people to come to them, and a lot of them. They can't just tell people to come and start saying things like only disabled people wouldn't be able to walk to us, that isn't going to get them any customers.

If they want it to be more than a temporary fad they need to be as accessible as possible to as many people as possible. No amount of telling people they should be willing to park here or get a train there is going to overcome that.

But it is easily accessible. Have a look at the amount of people on Shop Street any given weekend. They are all there on foot, walking around and shopping. You're just looking at it from your own point of view and assuming the everyone else is the same. Trying to shoe horn more cars into the area will only reduce accessibility to everyone.

There's research to show that reducing cars in an area causes an increase in footfall and corresponding increase in spending in shops. I'll try and dig it out later and post if required. Unless someone else does it for me

ScumLord

J o e wrote: »

They have the big advantage of being in the city centre. They are 120m from Shop Street, a very busy pedestrian street. They are also surrounded by loads of businesses with staff who will be looking for a tasty lunch.

There are those people but if it's anything like the place in Cork they're not really looking for a lunch crowd, the coffee shop in Cork is tiny, and any stall that sells food also has only enough room for 3 or 4 people. It's not a place to go to for lunch. It's a place to go to to buy delicatessen foods you cook at home.

xckjoo wrote: »

But it is easily accessible. Have a look at the amount of people on Shop Street any given weekend. They are all there on foot, walking around and shopping. You're just looking at it from your own point of view and assuming the everyone else is the same.

As far as I know the crowd shopping on shop street isn't really shopping for food, it's more clothes and other things. I don't think there's always a crossover in those kind of shoppers.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really do think they're cutting themselves off from a lot of business. Maybe they have research that there's enough locals that will purchase expensive food items to support them. Because if there isn't this will open for a few months and then collapse from lack of customers and there will be nothing they can do about it at that stage. If they end up costing the vendors a load of money those vendors may be unwilling to try this kind of market again in a hurry.

ben.schlomo

Scumlord you're really over-thinking this. People can park in many different areas in town and get to the proposed location. Much like they do for every other errand they run or shop they shop in in town. Mccambridges would have a very similar customer type to that of the proposed market and they don't struggle for custom. Thousands of people shop in town on a daily basis and manage to do so quite easily, I can't see people needing to be hauling ten ton of produce from the market to a car either, shoppers in these kinds of places are looking for specific small ingredients / produce,not furniture sized goods.

joeKel73

ScumLord wrote: »

There are those people but if it's anything like the place in Cork they're not really looking for a lunch crowd, the coffee shop in Cork is tiny, and any stall that sells food also has only enough room for 3 or 4 people. It's not a place to go to for lunch. It's a place to go to to buy delicatessen foods you cook at home.

Cork is just one example. Look at the likes of Borough Market in London (not fully indoor and not daily) which has a great range of different hot take-away food options.

It would be a great place to test out a new food offering before progressing to a new cafe in the city. Just look at the Falafel Bar and the Dough Bros.

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Mccambridges would have a very similar customer type to that of the proposed market and they don't struggle for custom.

^ great example

ScumLord

J o e wrote: »

Cork is just one example. Look at the likes of Borough Market in London (not fully indoor and not daily) which has a great range of different hot take-away food options.

You're talking about two completely different scales. London is a densely packed city, it's also a well planned city, you wouldn't be let build something without proper access. You also have a wide range of transport options, car (and you will likely have proper car access if it's built in the past 50 years), bus, taxi, underground, train, London is a city you can easily get by in without a car. But the bottom line is they have a huge population, you can plonk a business anywhere in London and have thousands and thousands of people within walking distance.

I'd love for our planners to be a bit more like the English, they know how to plan something in advance so that it will work and work well into the future.

It would be a great place to test out a new food offering before progressing to a new cafe in the city. Just look at the Falafel Bar and the Dough Bros.

If there are people there. The guys that are paying rent probably won't want blow ins stealing their customers before they even walk in the door either.

^ great example

It's a small shop that gets tourist trade as an add on. it's not hard to support a small shop, it's very different from the needs of a market.

Where would you put it ScumLord?
Or would you allow it at all?

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

Where would you put it ScumLord?
Or would you allow it at all?

I've already said I want a market like this is Galway.

The worry I have is they'll throw up this building without putting the proper research into making it a viable business. It will go well for a while but as it's just frustrating to get to people will lose interest in it. The market will fail and everyone that invested time and money it it (the vendors) will be turned off these types of markets.

If it's not done properly it will not only fail but make people believe that galway can't support one and vendors wouldn't take a chance on one again.

I'd put it somewhere that has easy access, both by car, bus, bicycle and maybe even somewhere there's the possibility of a train being connected at some stage. There's no reason why it couldn't be the centrepiece of a new shopping district, there's no need to cram everything into the shop street area.

Webbs

Cardiff whilst obviously bigger has a thriving indoor market and has done for a long time (100 years +). Access to the city by car there is pretty awful and incredibly expensive if you have to park a car. Public transport is ok at best.
Yet its a great place with majority of stalls being food but a wide range of others books, arts, homeware etc etc.

Its the sort of market as is all these markets that people pop into for a small bag of items. They work in other places without parking so why not Galway

ScumLord

Webbs wrote: »

Its the sort of market as is all these markets that people pop into for a small bag of items. They work in other places without parking so why not Galway

I don't think we can compare a well established market that's been in constant use for 100+ years to a start up. A new start up is going to be like any other business, there's no guarantee it's going to be an instant success.

People aren't going to go out of their way for an unknown, an established market comes with all kinds of nostalgia, people grew up going to it and wouldn't apply the same standards as they would for a new market.

Celestial12

Where would you have it then? I think it's an ideal location. Traffic is horrendous all over the city, if the market was in a more obscure location outside of the centre it would also create traffic problems, and lose out on being within walking vicinity for people who head in and out of town.

Galway needs new developments. It would be great for the area.

ScumLord

Celestial12 wrote: »

Where would you have it then?

I can't say, I'd need to do proper research, you'd need to have experience in shops, supermarkets, and other big consumer centres, you'd need to have some experts that could give projections of traffic, a breakdown of consumer types in the area, me picking a place that I like wouldn't do any good.

Webbs

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we can compare a well established market that's been in constant use for 100+ years to a start up. A new start up is going to be like any other business, there's no guarantee it's going to be an instant success.

People aren't going to go out of their way for an unknown, an established market comes with all kinds of nostalgia, people grew up going to it and wouldn't apply the same standards as they would for a new market.

I would have thought people incl tourists, visitors to the city and those who are residents would expect a covered indoor food/art/etc market to have a city centre location. People are well traveled now and would have experience of similar in other towns and cities worldwide.
An out of town location makes no sense for this type of project, it needs to be in the heart of a place.

ScumLord

I hope it works out, the location is nice, it will bring more life to the city centre. But I really hope they've thought this out properly and know what they're doing. If they get it wrong they could take down some small producers if they invest in a space and it fails.

I do genuinely think this is something that's perfectly suited to Galway, I just don't want to see the opportunity squandered, because if it is, it will probably be years before someone has another go.

topcat77

I'd really like to see this work, I love calling into markets in the various cities i've visited. i think it gives a great insight to the city you're visiting. They're sometimes the only place where you get to see some personality of the city rather than the same high street names everywhere.

I can't recall seeing any parking facilities at any of these markets but then the city they're in does have a decent transport infrastructure (Sort it out Galway city council).

i'd say it could work if the market was split into 2 areas.

The first being produce only (Fruit veg, Butchers, Bakery, Various world foods. etc...........

The second would be a licensed food hall open till 10pm like:
http://www.timeoutmarket.com/en/concept/

which is fantastic!!!!