Suspected attempted terrorist attack in London

pangbang

pontoonz wrote: »

it's time to shut down the free travel area between britain and ireland,

Oh I think that's going to take care of itself anyway!

What will be interesting is....when a bazillion immigrants get their passports, from countries they have no connection to....and can freely travel about all EU countries....but can no longer go to the UK.....but will hear of the free gaffs n' stuff from the now-only English speaking country in EU......what will they choose?

Hmmm!

pontoonz

pangbang wrote: »

Oh I think that's going to take care of itself anyway!

What will be interesting is....when a bazillion immigrants get their passports, from countries they have no connection to....and can freely travel about all EU countries....but can no longer go to the UK.....but will hear of the free gaffs n' stuff from the now-only English speaking country in EU......what will they choose?

Hmmm!

you wil be shocked to hear that Doctor Merkel is giving german passports to the refugees who lost their id while fleeing war

it's only fair, human rights and all that

KingofSheep

"He was motivated by Islamic ideologies, that IS a islamic terrorist"

He was a product of the society he grew up and lived in. He was a violent criminal long before he converted to Islam. Deciding to murder those people in Westminster was a result of this as much as it was any IS paraphernalia he possessed, in my opinion. I think you have to be psychologically unstable to commit such acts.

pangbang

pontoonz wrote: »

you wil be shocked to hear that Doctor Merkel is giving german passports to the refugees who lost their id while fleeing war

it's only fair, human rights and all that

I didn't see that one coming, no sir, not from a million miles away :P

pangbang

KingofSheep wrote: »

"He was motivated by Islamic ideologies, that IS a islamic terrorist"

He was a product of the society he grew up and lived in. He was a violent criminal long before he converted to Islam. Deciding to murder those people in Westminster was a result of this as much as it was any IS paraphernalia he possessed, in my opinion. I think you have to be psychologically unstable to commit such acts.

So what about someone FROM Syria (for instance), they are unstable too, need psychological help etc.

So they aren't Islamic terrorists either, right?

So what exactly IS an Islamic terrorist to you?

pontoonz

pangbang wrote: »

I didn't see that one coming, no sir, not from a million miles away :P

i think we can safely say that merkel, simple simon coveny, and enda kenny are responsible for all the attacks on european women and children,

wouldn't it be ironic if one of their family gets made tarmac by the next truck of peace

vroom vroom

KingofSheep

"So what about someone FROM Syria (for instance), they are unstable too, need psychological help etc.

So they aren't Islamic terrorists either, right?

So what exactly IS an Islamic terrorist to you?"

Not sure what you're getting at with the first two. It's obvious some dangerous folk are using the refugee crisis to travel unchecked to Europe and there have been and will be further consequences of that. Obviously not all refugees are Islamic Terrorists.

In my opinion, an Islamic terrorist is an individual who has followed Islam most of if not all of their life and has spent most of their life living in an Islamic country or community. The mass murdering of innocent people seems to be influenced by powerful individuals within the radical teachings of the religion. Masoods instability was clearly evident before he converted to Islam, or the psychotic version taught in prisons. I just don't believe his Islamic faith was the sole reason he committed such a heinous act.

pangbang

KingofSheep wrote: »

"So what about someone FROM Syria (for instance), they are unstable too, need psychological help etc.

So they aren't Islamic terrorists either, right?

So what exactly IS an Islamic terrorist to you?"

Not sure what you're getting at with the first two. It's obvious some dangerous folk are using the refugee crisis to travel unchecked to Europe and there have been and will be further consequences of that. Obviously not all refugees are Islamic Terrorists.

In my opinion, an Islamic terrorist is an individual who has followed Islam most of if not all of their life and has spent most of their life living in an Islamic country or community. The mass murdering of innocent people seems to be influenced by powerful individuals within the radical teachings of the religion. Masoods instability was clearly evident before he converted to Islam, or the psychotic version taught in prisons. I just don't believe his Islamic faith was the sole reason he committed such a heinous act.

I think you have a extremely thin definition of an Islamic terrorist. To say that all the killings that have happened around Europe are just sick people....I mean isn't that providing carte blanche to do absolutely nothing about it?

How do you target sick people? How do you differentiate between an Islamic-inspired sick person and a terrorist? Do you think that isis worries about the specific people they are killing?

To quote a movie "as long as we have to play by these these bulls--t rules, and the killers don't, we're gonna lose"

pangbang

pangbang wrote: »

So if they were raised in an Islamic tradition, surrounded by islam, in the likes of Birmingham......you wouldn't consider him an Islamic terrorist because hes not from an Islamic country?

Exactly. Apparently a zealous recent convert could also murder people, without being regarded as an Islamic terrorist, even if acting on orders from ISIS, because....???

I'm not quite sure whether that "opinion" is delusional, or just an attempt at deflection.

Interesting.

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2017/0427/870878-waterford-arrests/

A man and a woman have been arrested in Waterford City on suspicion of being involved in Islamic-related terrorist activity.
The pair, both in their 20s, was arrested this morning as part of an ongoing intelligence operation by gardaí in the city.
The man is from Ireland and the woman is from the UK.

It seems the Gardaí are happy enough with the current definition of Islamic terrorism.

Weren't there arrests in Waterford related to Islamic extremism 5 or 6 years ago, too?

KingofSheep

"I think you have a extremely thin definition of an Islamic terrorist. To say that all the killings that have happened around Europe are just sick people....I mean isn't that providing carte blanche to do absolutely nothing about it?

How do you target sick people? How do you differentiate between an Islamic-inspired sick person and a terrorist? Do you think that isis worries about the specific people they are killing?

To quote a movie "as long as we have to play by these these bulls--t rules, and the killers don't, we're gonna lose""

I never mentioned any of the horrible acts that have occurred in Europe over the last number of years or denied that they were perpetrated by Islamic extremists. I also never denied the existence of Islamic extremism. In this instance, I believe Masoods motivations go beyond his conversion to Islam. This appears to have ruffled some feathers. For that I can only sincerely apologise. It is a very complex problem and I certainly don't assume to have any answers for it.

jmayo

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

Did you ever work in Rotherham or Cologne for that matter. :rolleyes:

pontoonz wrote: »

i don't mean to be glib or anything,

but you do realise the rufugees are flleing from war,

we have to let them in,

we can talk about the consequences another day

Ehhh bullshyte.
The guy that drove the truck in Berlin wasn't a refugee or asylum seeker in reality.
And the only thing he was fleeing was a jail sentence for stealing a truck.

I wish people would stop this narrative that all the ones entering Europe, crossing the Med or Aegean in dodgy boats or parked up in Calais are fleeing war in Syria, Iraq or someplace like Somalia or Afghanistan.

A hell of a lot of them are simply economic migrants and a fair chunk are dodgy types with seedy criminal pasts.

Danzy

KingofSheep wrote: »

"He was motivated by Islamic ideologies, that IS a islamic terrorist"

He was a product of the society he grew up and lived in. He was a violent criminal long before he converted to Islam. Deciding to murder those people in Westminster was a result of this as much as it was any IS paraphernalia he possessed, in my opinion. I think you have to be psychologically unstable to commit such acts.

"in my opinion" says you.

Denying them personal agency, that to them it is a rational act, given the norms, history and religious imperatives.

Don't project what you think on to them, look directly at what they think and say.

A Little Pony

KingofSheep wrote: »

"They are Islamic terrorists."

The gentleman who killed 4 people in Westminster was born in the UK and lived there his whole life. He was a man with a psychological illness that didn't get the help he needed. Calling him an Islamic terrorist is pushing it in my opinion.

Stop blaming mental illness.

Manny89

Why are people so willing to throw the mentally ill under the bus?

Little CuChulainn

Manny89 wrote: »

Why are people so willing to throw the mentally ill under the bus?

Why are people so willing to treat the mentally ill as one homogeneous group?

Heckler

I think it would be frightening to hear how many large scale attacks the Brits have prevented behind the scenes.

These lone wolf attacks are impossible to stop.

Surely time for all the UK police to be armed. I don't think the public would have a problem with it in the current climate.

Recently in France and Germany and you would not mess with those guys. Right or wrong a firearm commands respect.

They look a bit paramilitary but thats fine by me.

They make our Guards (who do a great ,hard job) look like Keystone Kops.

The day of the community Guard, being friends to all and strolling around is gone.

Little CuChulainn

Heckler wrote: »

I think it would be frightening to hear how many large scale attacks the Brits have prevented behind the scenes.

These lone wolf attacks are impossible to stop.

Surely time for all the UK police to be armed. I don't think the public would have a problem with it in the current climate.

Recently in France and Germany and you would not mess with those guys. Right or wrong a firearm commands respect.

They look a bit paramilitary but thats fine by me.

They make our Guards (who do a great ,hard job) look like Keystone Kops.

The day of the community Guard, being friends to all and strolling around is gone.

Firearms don't command respect, they induce fear. The community approach is a great approach for everyday policing. Eliminating it because you fear terrorists is an idiotic approach. Who will do the everyday policing while all your cops are sporting firearms and watching out for terrorists?

Heckler

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Firearms don't command respect, they induce fear. The community approach is a great approach for everyday policing. Eliminating it because you fear terrorists is an idiotic approach. Who will do the everyday policing while all your cops are sporting firearms and watching out for terrorists?

I disagree. Its not fear at all. If I'm doing no wrong I'd rather all police had a sidearm. Without going into all the training and such yeah, I think its a great idea.

Anytime abroad in a country with armed police I didn't feel fear !

They generally looked like tough bastards with guns but having many times to ask for directions/help they are more than courteous.

The police here aren't respected. Just google recent cases of Guards getting a beating.

They need to get away from the Chief Wiggum image and get serious.

fly_agaric

Heckler wrote: »

They need to get away from the Chief Wiggum image and get serious.

Funny thing is Chief Wiggum has a gun...but would you trust him with it?

I agree with your points about feeling of reassurance armed police can provide (particularly for airports and the like) but that depends on trusting the professionalism and competence of the police force given that kind of responsibility. My faith in the guards is somewhat lacking; not sure I'd want to see alot more of them carrying guns about on a day to day basis.

C Montgomery Gurns II

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

Germany follows this policy, deliberately under reporting attacks, downplaying the motive, actively covering up the ethnic background of the attacker. They are still suffering bladed weapon attacks on a regular basis.

Widdershins

Originally Posted by KingofSheep View Post
"They are Islamic terrorists."

The gentleman who killed 4 people in Westminster was born in the UK and lived there his whole life. He was a man with a psychological illness that didn't get the help he needed. Calling him an Islamic terrorist is pushing it in my opinion.


Gentleman? You have a strange ideaof gentlemanly behaviour?

You seem a little bit unfamiliar with the nature of Islamism and Islamic terrorism, but there is plenty of online information and plenty of very informative books about it. Maybe try reading some and then decide who can call those attacks, terrorism.

The man you refer to was a convert, reported to have quickly become very extreme and forceful with his daughter about covering up, connected to a group of radicals and may have been influenced by the notorious anjem choudary.

nacho libre

Even before he converted and decided to carry out the attack, he was not what you would class as a gentleman, far from it.

The security services in the UK are doing a good job thwarting attacks. Another two thwarted recently.

I see posters complaining about the pressure of their job from time to time, spare a thought for the potential fatal consequences for others if those men and women feck up. There maybe some of us still around today because of their successful work. A sobering thought

jmayo

Manny89 wrote: »

Why are people so willing to throw the mentally ill under the bus?

Nah you have gotten it wrong.
Some reckon the one driving the bus (truck, car, etc) deliberately over innocent people, as he shouts how great his god is, is the one that is mentally ill.