Suspected attempted terrorist attack in London

Parchment

http://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/0427/870821-london/

A man armed with several knives has been arrested in Whitehall on suspicion of planning a terror attack, Scotland Yard said.

topper75

Not so akbar after all then.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Can you imagine the amount of resources this never ending terror watch is pulling out of the London Police. (and police forces across other European Capitals)

It's most likely taking away from other areas. The likes of organised crime is probably not receiving the same attention as it once was.

storker

topper75 wrote: »

Not so akbar after all then.

God is great but sometime he gets his collar felt all the same...

mikeoneilly

False alarm

It was Gordon Ramsay left the kitchen for a smoke

BrokenArrows

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

silverharp

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

so Nice was just road rage?

cajonlardo

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

Yes, by all means keep the great unenlightened masses ignorant.

If some lunatic ran up to you and your loved ones and started hacking away with a machete you'd be terrorised, hence terrorism

How many do you want them to kill as a matter of interest before it reaches your league table of terrorism?

Koptain Liverpool

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

So the deaths of those people in Westminster should just have been ignored?

Bloody cretin.

BrokenArrows

BrokenArrows wrote: »

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

There is nothing to be gained from keeping the public in the picture with what's going on in the next street or city or country. Nobody actually needs to be informed. The media should only tell the people what they NEED to know.

Now, who would get to decide that, I wonder. Perhaps we could look to places like NK for the answers to these ethical dilemmas.

Or reporting should be required to be proportionate to the story.

BrokenArrows

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

It's easy to say all that when the authorities have managed to prevent what would've been the death of someone innocent.
Even one person murdered by the bearded warrior would ruin some family.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

The suspect had been under surveillance for some time:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39736733
As we see with so many of these attacks, it would appear that 'the suspect was known to intelligence services'.
Luckily this one was stopped early.

yosser hughes

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.


Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

What's wrong with you? Really? Serious question.

222233

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.


There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

One life lost is just as a tragic as 200 lives lost, every single one life is valuable. I find it difficult to fathom that you believe reporting on vehicles mowing people down takes away from the "seriousness" of terrorism, that act sounds pretty serious to me...

The definition of terrorism:
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Nomis21

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

So the deaths of those people in Westminster should just have been ignored?

Bloody cretin.

Preventing terrorism, and media attention to terrorism, are two different issues.

I think a bit less 'Oxygen of Publicity' would not be such a bad idea for some of these minor incidents where there are no casualties.

Terrorist groups like IS know that news media can be utilized to spread their message to the masses while simultaneously instilling fear in viewers.

hungry hypno toad

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

The 'nothing to see here' brigade have arrived. Move along people.

hungry hypno toad

yosser hughes wrote: »

What's wrong with you? Really? Serious question.

He drank the kool aid.

A Little Pony

He apparently had a bag full of knives. I'd love to see just what is happening within the security services right now. It must be an incredible time and mayhem. People probably just aren't aware at how many times these people have stopped so many incidents.

A Little Pony

hungry hypno toad wrote: »

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

The 'nothing to see here' brigade have arrived. Move along people.

Oh he will take notice alright in time. Don't think these people aren't looking towards the Republic.

pangbang

Unless theres a seismic shift in Europe in terms of policy, acceptance, governance etc (definitely on the cards).......it'll be 2nd generation immigrants and upwards that will roll out the whoppers.

If I was dropped in Islamabad for a few months and I wanted to do damage, it would probably be low-tech, low-impact, just like we're seeing now. Hijacking buses, running amok with knives.

Put me in Islamabad for years upon years, give me access and knowledge on the workings of the city, give me time to build up connections, get the right jobs, source the correct materials......I'll put on a fireworks show for the world to see.

Its incoming.

sidenote: The tongue in cheek of the bloke who named that place Islamabad :P

CoolHandBandit

Delighted he was caught the absolute dirty scumbag.

Infini

You know they would do everyone a favour if they stopped calling these incidents "terrorist" as I dont consider them terrorists but braindead darwin nomineee idiots deserving a long stint in the insane asylum. The likes of those idiots that shot up paris is a terrorist attack, a looney with a few knives or using a vehicle to run people over isnt a terrorist but a idiot looking to be removed from the gene pool.

pangbang

Infini wrote: »

You know they would do everyone a favour if they stopped calling these incidents "terrorist" as I dont consider them terrorists but braindead darwin nomineee idiots deserving a long stint in the insane asylum. The likes of those idiots that shot up paris is a terrorist attack, a looney with a few knives or using a vehicle to run people over isnt a terrorist but a idiot looking to be removed from the gene pool.

Its a tricky one. There can definitely be over-reporting of undeserving incidents.

But I place the blame at source.

The reason this whole thing is continuing, false reports and not, is because NOTHING is being done about it.

I mean, seriously. Can you think of anything, anywhere, that is being done that will effectively stop this?

As long as this MASSIVE hole remains in peoples safety, as long as the people can see that not only is the problem not being fixed, but is actually being built-upon day by day......this steaming boulder of dung is gonna keep gathering speed downhill, growing larger with every **** particle it picks up along the way. We need Enda Kenny to stand it front of it and say "NO!", neo style :P

BrokenArrows

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

Are you seriously advocating that we should interfere with the freedom of the press?:eek:

Or that the public shouldn't be made aware of an ongoing threat?

Unbelievable!

CoolHandBandit

Infini wrote: »

You know they would do everyone a favour if they stopped calling these incidents "terrorist" as I dont consider them terrorists but braindead darwin nomineee idiots deserving a long stint in the insane asylum. The likes of those idiots that shot up paris is a terrorist attack, a looney with a few knives or using a vehicle to run people over isnt a terrorist but a idiot looking to be removed from the gene pool.

They are Islamic terrorists.

pontoonz

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Can you imagine the amount of resources this never ending terror watch is pulling out of the London Police. (and police forces across other European Capitals)

It's most likely taking away from other areas. The likes of organised crime is probably not receiving the same attention as it once was.

i don't mean to be glib or anything,

but you do realise the rufugees are flleing from war,

we have to let them in,

we can talk about the consequences another day

KingofSheep

"They are Islamic terrorists."

The gentleman who killed 4 people in Westminster was born in the UK and lived there his whole life. He was a man with a psychological illness that didn't get the help he needed. Calling him an Islamic terrorist is pushing it in my opinion.

Strong Life in Dublin

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Reporting vehicles mowing people down

How is that not terrorism, I would advise to learn the definition of a terrorist attack ? It doesn't need to be a bomb to be a terrorist attack...

Beyondgone

pontoonz wrote: »

i don't mean to be glib or anything,

but you do realise the rufugees are flleing from war,

we have to let them in,

we can talk about the consequences another day

Their neighbours, oddly, chose not to. But that's neither here nor there, right?

Strong Life in Dublin

KingofSheep wrote: »

"They are Islamic terrorists."

The gentleman who killed 4 people in Westminster was born in the UK and lived there his whole life. He was a man with a psychological illness that didn't get the help he needed. Calling him an Islamic terrorist is pushing it in my opinion.

He was motivated by Islamic ideologies, that IS Islamic terrorism

pontoonz

it's time to shut down the free travel area between britain and ireland,

pangbang

pontoonz wrote: »

it's time to shut down the free travel area between britain and ireland,

Oh I think that's going to take care of itself anyway!

What will be interesting is....when a bazillion immigrants get their passports, from countries they have no connection to....and can freely travel about all EU countries....but can no longer go to the UK.....but will hear of the free gaffs n' stuff from the now-only English speaking country in EU......what will they choose?

Hmmm!

pontoonz

pangbang wrote: »

Oh I think that's going to take care of itself anyway!

What will be interesting is....when a bazillion immigrants get their passports, from countries they have no connection to....and can freely travel about all EU countries....but can no longer go to the UK.....but will hear of the free gaffs n' stuff from the now-only English speaking country in EU......what will they choose?

Hmmm!

you wil be shocked to hear that Doctor Merkel is giving german passports to the refugees who lost their id while fleeing war

it's only fair, human rights and all that

KingofSheep

"He was motivated by Islamic ideologies, that IS a islamic terrorist"

He was a product of the society he grew up and lived in. He was a violent criminal long before he converted to Islam. Deciding to murder those people in Westminster was a result of this as much as it was any IS paraphernalia he possessed, in my opinion. I think you have to be psychologically unstable to commit such acts.

pangbang

pontoonz wrote: »

you wil be shocked to hear that Doctor Merkel is giving german passports to the refugees who lost their id while fleeing war

it's only fair, human rights and all that

I didn't see that one coming, no sir, not from a million miles away :P

pangbang

KingofSheep wrote: »

"He was motivated by Islamic ideologies, that IS a islamic terrorist"

He was a product of the society he grew up and lived in. He was a violent criminal long before he converted to Islam. Deciding to murder those people in Westminster was a result of this as much as it was any IS paraphernalia he possessed, in my opinion. I think you have to be psychologically unstable to commit such acts.

So what about someone FROM Syria (for instance), they are unstable too, need psychological help etc.

So they aren't Islamic terrorists either, right?

So what exactly IS an Islamic terrorist to you?

pontoonz

pangbang wrote: »

I didn't see that one coming, no sir, not from a million miles away :P

i think we can safely say that merkel, simple simon coveny, and enda kenny are responsible for all the attacks on european women and children,

wouldn't it be ironic if one of their family gets made tarmac by the next truck of peace

vroom vroom

KingofSheep

"So what about someone FROM Syria (for instance), they are unstable too, need psychological help etc.

So they aren't Islamic terrorists either, right?

So what exactly IS an Islamic terrorist to you?"

Not sure what you're getting at with the first two. It's obvious some dangerous folk are using the refugee crisis to travel unchecked to Europe and there have been and will be further consequences of that. Obviously not all refugees are Islamic Terrorists.

In my opinion, an Islamic terrorist is an individual who has followed Islam most of if not all of their life and has spent most of their life living in an Islamic country or community. The mass murdering of innocent people seems to be influenced by powerful individuals within the radical teachings of the religion. Masoods instability was clearly evident before he converted to Islam, or the psychotic version taught in prisons. I just don't believe his Islamic faith was the sole reason he committed such a heinous act.

pangbang

KingofSheep wrote: »

"So what about someone FROM Syria (for instance), they are unstable too, need psychological help etc.

So they aren't Islamic terrorists either, right?

So what exactly IS an Islamic terrorist to you?"

Not sure what you're getting at with the first two. It's obvious some dangerous folk are using the refugee crisis to travel unchecked to Europe and there have been and will be further consequences of that. Obviously not all refugees are Islamic Terrorists.

In my opinion, an Islamic terrorist is an individual who has followed Islam most of if not all of their life and has spent most of their life living in an Islamic country or community. The mass murdering of innocent people seems to be influenced by powerful individuals within the radical teachings of the religion. Masoods instability was clearly evident before he converted to Islam, or the psychotic version taught in prisons. I just don't believe his Islamic faith was the sole reason he committed such a heinous act.

I think you have a extremely thin definition of an Islamic terrorist. To say that all the killings that have happened around Europe are just sick people....I mean isn't that providing carte blanche to do absolutely nothing about it?

How do you target sick people? How do you differentiate between an Islamic-inspired sick person and a terrorist? Do you think that isis worries about the specific people they are killing?

To quote a movie "as long as we have to play by these these bulls--t rules, and the killers don't, we're gonna lose"

pangbang

pangbang wrote: »

So if they were raised in an Islamic tradition, surrounded by islam, in the likes of Birmingham......you wouldn't consider him an Islamic terrorist because hes not from an Islamic country?

Exactly. Apparently a zealous recent convert could also murder people, without being regarded as an Islamic terrorist, even if acting on orders from ISIS, because....???

I'm not quite sure whether that "opinion" is delusional, or just an attempt at deflection.

Interesting.

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2017/0427/870878-waterford-arrests/

A man and a woman have been arrested in Waterford City on suspicion of being involved in Islamic-related terrorist activity.
The pair, both in their 20s, was arrested this morning as part of an ongoing intelligence operation by gardaí in the city.
The man is from Ireland and the woman is from the UK.

It seems the Gardaí are happy enough with the current definition of Islamic terrorism.

Weren't there arrests in Waterford related to Islamic extremism 5 or 6 years ago, too?

KingofSheep

"I think you have a extremely thin definition of an Islamic terrorist. To say that all the killings that have happened around Europe are just sick people....I mean isn't that providing carte blanche to do absolutely nothing about it?

How do you target sick people? How do you differentiate between an Islamic-inspired sick person and a terrorist? Do you think that isis worries about the specific people they are killing?

To quote a movie "as long as we have to play by these these bulls--t rules, and the killers don't, we're gonna lose""

I never mentioned any of the horrible acts that have occurred in Europe over the last number of years or denied that they were perpetrated by Islamic extremists. I also never denied the existence of Islamic extremism. In this instance, I believe Masoods motivations go beyond his conversion to Islam. This appears to have ruffled some feathers. For that I can only sincerely apologise. It is a very complex problem and I certainly don't assume to have any answers for it.

jmayo

BrokenArrows wrote: »

The fact that this bull**** gets reported as terrorism is insane.

If jumping up and down on the spot while holding your dick in your hand shouting allah ackbar was widely reported as terrorism and got huge media coverage you can guarantee you would have these obviously deluded people doing the same thing.

Reporting vehicles mowing people down and attempted stabbings as terrorism takes away from the seriousness of actual terrorism which involves killing of massive amount of people every day through bombings and gun violence in countries that never even make the papers.

Giving it massive coverage just encourages these people to repeat it and seek fame.

There should honestly be a ban on reporting on terrorism, especially this 24 hour coverage that any minor incident gets. Get it out of the public eye because the fame that these people get just encourages more to repeat it.

Did you ever work in Rotherham or Cologne for that matter. :rolleyes:

pontoonz wrote: »

i don't mean to be glib or anything,

but you do realise the rufugees are flleing from war,

we have to let them in,

we can talk about the consequences another day

Ehhh bullshyte.
The guy that drove the truck in Berlin wasn't a refugee or asylum seeker in reality.
And the only thing he was fleeing was a jail sentence for stealing a truck.

I wish people would stop this narrative that all the ones entering Europe, crossing the Med or Aegean in dodgy boats or parked up in Calais are fleeing war in Syria, Iraq or someplace like Somalia or Afghanistan.

A hell of a lot of them are simply economic migrants and a fair chunk are dodgy types with seedy criminal pasts.

Danzy

KingofSheep wrote: »

"He was motivated by Islamic ideologies, that IS a islamic terrorist"

He was a product of the society he grew up and lived in. He was a violent criminal long before he converted to Islam. Deciding to murder those people in Westminster was a result of this as much as it was any IS paraphernalia he possessed, in my opinion. I think you have to be psychologically unstable to commit such acts.

"in my opinion" says you.

Denying them personal agency, that to them it is a rational act, given the norms, history and religious imperatives.

Don't project what you think on to them, look directly at what they think and say.

A Little Pony

KingofSheep wrote: »

"They are Islamic terrorists."

The gentleman who killed 4 people in Westminster was born in the UK and lived there his whole life. He was a man with a psychological illness that didn't get the help he needed. Calling him an Islamic terrorist is pushing it in my opinion.

Stop blaming mental illness.

Manny89

Why are people so willing to throw the mentally ill under the bus?

Little CuChulainn

Manny89 wrote: »

Why are people so willing to throw the mentally ill under the bus?

Why are people so willing to treat the mentally ill as one homogeneous group?

Heckler

I think it would be frightening to hear how many large scale attacks the Brits have prevented behind the scenes.

These lone wolf attacks are impossible to stop.

Surely time for all the UK police to be armed. I don't think the public would have a problem with it in the current climate.

Recently in France and Germany and you would not mess with those guys. Right or wrong a firearm commands respect.

They look a bit paramilitary but thats fine by me.

They make our Guards (who do a great ,hard job) look like Keystone Kops.

The day of the community Guard, being friends to all and strolling around is gone.

Little CuChulainn

Heckler wrote: »

I think it would be frightening to hear how many large scale attacks the Brits have prevented behind the scenes.

These lone wolf attacks are impossible to stop.

Surely time for all the UK police to be armed. I don't think the public would have a problem with it in the current climate.

Recently in France and Germany and you would not mess with those guys. Right or wrong a firearm commands respect.

They look a bit paramilitary but thats fine by me.

They make our Guards (who do a great ,hard job) look like Keystone Kops.

The day of the community Guard, being friends to all and strolling around is gone.

Firearms don't command respect, they induce fear. The community approach is a great approach for everyday policing. Eliminating it because you fear terrorists is an idiotic approach. Who will do the everyday policing while all your cops are sporting firearms and watching out for terrorists?

Heckler

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Firearms don't command respect, they induce fear. The community approach is a great approach for everyday policing. Eliminating it because you fear terrorists is an idiotic approach. Who will do the everyday policing while all your cops are sporting firearms and watching out for terrorists?

I disagree. Its not fear at all. If I'm doing no wrong I'd rather all police had a sidearm. Without going into all the training and such yeah, I think its a great idea.

Anytime abroad in a country with armed police I didn't feel fear !

They generally looked like tough bastards with guns but having many times to ask for directions/help they are more than courteous.

The police here aren't respected. Just google recent cases of Guards getting a beating.

They need to get away from the Chief Wiggum image and get serious.

fly_agaric

Heckler wrote: »

They need to get away from the Chief Wiggum image and get serious.

Funny thing is Chief Wiggum has a gun...but would you trust him with it?

I agree with your points about feeling of reassurance armed police can provide (particularly for airports and the like) but that depends on trusting the professionalism and competence of the police force given that kind of responsibility. My faith in the guards is somewhat lacking; not sure I'd want to see alot more of them carrying guns about on a day to day basis.