UFC Fight Night: Swanson vs. Lobov

mailburner

Cub Swanson by Submission

mailburner wrote: »

what's with all ye lot going for artem by ko? ffs ye must have a crystal ball or something :pac:
or going five even...really?

jesus I really don't believe I'll be eating my words here :P

lol

couldnt see anything other than an easy night for cub

darced

Artem Lobov by Submission

This post has been deleted.

Mr. Manager

Cub Swanson by KO/TKO

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Harsh but true. He's not even close to elite and never will be. His style doesn't make for a champion or even a contender.

If this guy didn't have some sort of Irish link nobody here would ever talk about him.

He was better than I expected in that fight but it was still an abysmal performance.

Mellor

Artem Lobov by Submission

Mr. Manager wrote: »

Harsh but true. He's not even close to elite and never will be. His style doesn't make for a champion or even a contender.

If this guy didn't have some sort of Irish link nobody here would ever talk about him.

He was better than I expected in that fight but it was still an abysmal performance.

Not everyone in the UFC is an elite fighter, champion or championship contender.
Artem is not a top 5 featherweight, that's a fact. But he was a TUF finalist, and since then has gone on to make massive improvements.
The fight tonight proved he deserves his place in the UFC. He's there on his ability and not just on Conor's coat tails.

finglashoop

Artem Lobov by Decision

Mellor wrote: »

Not everyone in the UFC is an elite fighter, champion or championship contender.
Artem is not a top 5 featherweight, that's a fact. But he was a TUF finalist, and since then has gone on to make massive improvements.
The fight tonight proved he deserves his place in the UFC. He's there on his ability and not just on Conor's coat tails.

Gunni seems to be the only sbg fighter not riding mcgregors coat tails.

Mr. CooL ICE

Mr. Manager wrote: »

Harsh but true. He's not even close to elite and never will be. His style doesn't make for a champion or even a contender.

He has improved drastically in the last few years. The Lobov that gave his neck to Alex Enlund is completely different to the Lobov from the last 3 fights.

Regarding not being a champion/contender; I pretty much agree with you. Then again, you could have said the same thing about Robbie Lawler once upon a time tbh.

Mellor

Artem Lobov by Submission

finglashoop wrote: »

Gunni seems to be the only sbg fighter not riding mcgregors coat tails.

Conor may have helped him get his spot in the house. But he knocked out 3 people to get to the finale. He put in a better performance against Ryan Hall than Maynard. And just went 5 rounds with the number 4 FW, arguably winning 1 or 2 rounds.

If he was a random bloke nobody would have an issue with him being signed. Not everyone can be a top 5 or a title challenger.

Mellor

Artem Lobov by Submission

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

The Lobov that gave his neck to Alex Enlund is completely different to the Lobov from the last 3 fights.

On that semi-related note, Alex Enlund was just signed by the UFC.

Gamebred

Cub Swanson by KO/TKO

Mr. Manager wrote: »

Harsh but true. He's not even close to elite and never will be.

Who the **** is saying hes elite you headcase?

Utopia Parkway

Artem went 5 rounds with Cub Swanson and got plenty of licks in on Cub. He's not likely to be challenging for a belt probably ever but most fighters don't. I think he's proven he can hang about at UFC level. Yes he's fairly limited but nothing wrong with being a solid journeyman either who can be in entertaining fights.

By the way I like Stann but he completely no sold Artem in that fight while bigging up Cub every time he swung a punch in anger. Whether it landed or missed.

Lukker-

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Artem went 5 rounds with Cub Swanson and got plenty of licks in on Cub. He's not likely to be challenging for a belt probably ever but most fighters don't. I think he's proven he can hang about at UFC level. Yes he's fairly limited but nothing wrong with being a solid journeyman either who can be in entertaining fights.

By the way I like Stann but he completely no sold Artem in that fight while bigging up Cub every time he swung a punch in anger. Whether it landed or missed.

Stann used to train with Cub at JacksonWink so his commentary was very biased. The wrestling guy called the fight more fairly.

wonderfullife

Fight call very reminiscent of Conor v Nate 2. A lot of amazing counters from Conor were met with silence and every time he dropped him, Joe was like "meh".

Stann went wild saying that head kick buckled Artem (it didn't), said he was destroyed in the BJJ exchange (he wasn't) and a lot of Artem's best shots were met with silence.

Luke Thomas made a pretty good point on his Event wrap-up. He said that Round 1 shows that SBG are very good at working out an effective game plan for an opponent but that Artem (and by implication the corner) lacks ability to make in-fight adjustments. So when Cub figured him out, Artem wasn't able to alter his game-plan.

The corner arrangement was fairly poor, Richie is a great guy but he was a deer in headlights and barely said a word. Roddy is fantastic but he kept calling for pull-counters when they clearly weren't working yet didn't call for more leg kicks.

Cub's leg was in ribbons yet Artem all but abandoned that strategy when he truly needed to double up on it. It should have been leg-kick-city all the way. That's the job of a corner to assess what's working and what's not working.

Lukker-

wonderfullife wrote: »

Fight call very reminiscent of Conor v Nate 2. A lot of amazing counters from Conor were met with silence and every time he dropped him, Joe was like "meh".

Stann went wild saying that head kick buckled Artem (it didn't), said he was destroyed in the BJJ exchange (he wasn't) and a lot of Artem's best shots were met with silence.

Luke Thomas made a pretty good point on his Event wrap-up. He said that Round 1 shows that SBG are very good at working out an effective game plan for an opponent but that Artem (and by implication the corner) lacks ability to make in-fight adjustments. So when Cub figured him out, Artem wasn't able to alter his game-plan.

The corner arrangement was fairly poor, Richie is a great guy but he was a deer in headlights and barely said a word. Roddy is fantastic but he kept calling for pull-counters when they clearly weren't working yet didn't call for more leg kicks.

Cub's leg was in ribbons yet Artem all but abandoned that strategy when he truly needed to double up on it. It should have been leg-kick-city all the way. That's the job of a corner to assess what's working and what's not working.

Artem just has limitations and any top 10 fighter will figure them out. No amount of game planning or in fight adjustments will make up his bad habbits: lack of head movement, staying in the pocket after counters and a generally poor defence. I was disappointed he abandoned the leg kicks, but I assume that was more to do with the fact that he hurt his foot and eventually Cub started checking and countering them effectively.

He was also badly gassed after going into round 3. It was the same for his last fight but it was less noticeable because he was dominating. The grappling exchanges and getting Cub off his back drained him. Thankfully this won't be an issue going forward as this is most likely the only 5 rounder he will have to fight.

Anyways he showed he belonged in the UFC, he'll make a good gatekeeper for the top 15.

wonderfullife

Cub Swanson must be devastated that he didn't advance his career by KO'ing an unranked opponent... I imagine he went home to his (now pregnant) wife in tears......

Gamebred

Cub Swanson by KO/TKO

https://twitter.com/MikeBohnMMA/status/856184180111224832


Not too shabby.

wonderfullife

The biggest problem Artem has to contend with is he has a criminally bad reach for the division. His reach isn't even particular good for bantamweight.

I know Roddy was clear in the gameplan - get Cub to throw and counter. For a round that worked out pretty well. But as soon as Cub found a good range to fight at, Artem was only really connecting on the end of his punches and leaving himself wide open to be hit, particularly on his right side.

It seems to me that Roddy is particularly strong at set-ups for counters. It works well for Conor because he has impeccable timing and a monster 74" reach but it clearly doesn't work as well for Artem.

I'd certainly be interested in knowing is Artem willing or able to lose some muscle mass and make 135? It might be impossible but if it was an option I'd be considering it.

darced

Artem Lobov by Submission

This post has been deleted.

Lukker-

wonderfullife wrote: »

The biggest problem Artem has to contend with is he has a criminally bad reach for the division. His reach isn't even particular good for bantamweight.

I know Roddy was clear in the gameplan - get Cub to throw and counter. For a round that worked out pretty well. But as soon as Cub found a good range to fight at, Artem was only really connecting on the end of his punches and leaving himself wide open to be hit, particularly on his right side.

It seems to me that Roddy is particularly strong at set-ups for counters. It works well for Conor because he has impeccable timing and a monster 74" reach but it clearly doesn't work as well for Artem.

I'd certainly be interested in knowing is Artem willing or able to lose some muscle mass and make 135? It might be impossible but if it was an option I'd be considering it.

I wouldn't say so, he looks drawn out enough at 145. He's just too tall, he's never fought at 135 and has often fought at 55.

The reach is obviously a disadvantage but it's one he can mitigate by using constant pressure and staying in pocket, something he didn't do vs. Cub. Think he needs to improve his cardio to be able to keep that pressure up, he's not much use on the back foot, even though he did tag Cub retreating a few times, he was barely in range so they only grazed him.

Clive

wonderfullife wrote: »

The corner arrangement was fairly poor, Richie is a great guy but he was a deer in headlights and barely said a word. Roddy is fantastic but he kept calling for pull-counters when they clearly weren't working yet didn't call for more leg kicks.

Generally speaking a second corner should be quiet. They feed information to the first corner - times, things they may have not seen etc. The first corner should be the voice the fighter hears. Between rounds the first corner gives the technical information and instructions, the second corner may give some encouragement, time permitting.

First corners are first for a reason. The exception is where they may be say a striking corner and a grappling corner and they shift roles as needed.

Corners have much more information coming to them than we do at home. They can hear the impact of a checked kick, see the tightness around the eyes that indicates pain, notice opportunities that are allowed to pass and get feedback from the fighter.

Owen is an excellent analyst and corner, who knows Artem inside and out. Every piece of information I heard him give (admittedly I don't pay that much attention) was spot on.

thewheel2.0

wonderfullife wrote: »

Cub's leg was in ribbons yet Artem all but abandoned that strategy when he truly needed to double up on it. It should have been leg-kick-city all the way. That's the job of a corner to assess what's working and what's not working.

I was watching an interview with Artem and he said "my foot is fúcked, I can barely walk, I'll never throw any fúcking leg kicks again" (McGregor said the same post Diaz 2, didn't he?) so he backed off.

In an interview with Cub, he also hurt his leg with the very first kick to the body. That's why he didn't go for the head kicks that Greg Jackson was (super loudly) calling for.

wonderfullife

Clive wrote: »

Generally speaking a second corner should be quiet. They feed information to the first corner - times, things they may have not seen etc. The first corner should be the voice the fighter hears. Between rounds the first corner gives the technical information and instructions, the second corner may give some encouragement, time permitting.

First corners are first for a reason. The exception is where they may be say a striking corner and a grappling corner and they shift roles as needed.

Corners have much more information coming to them than we do at home. They can hear the impact of a checked kick, see the tightness around the eyes that indicates pain, notice opportunities that are allowed to pass and get feedback from the fighter.

Owen is an excellent analyst and corner, who knows Artem inside and out. Every piece of information I heard him give (admittedly I don't pay that much attention) was spot on.

I agree with nearly all you said.

The only thing I'll say is I absolutely LOVED the corner work at UFC 202 from the lads, it's one of the best examples I've ever seen.

John, Owen, Dillon and Conor Wallace all worked seamlessly in tandem. They almost never shouted over each other, the advice was relevant and calm, it was Exhibit A in how to do it.

John was vocal when the fight went at short range.
Owen was vocal when Conor was at kicking distance.
Dillon very vocal during clinch exchanges.
Conor Wallace called for 1-2's and jabs.

In between rounds, John did lead cornering and Owen calmly gave technical advice on set-ups.

All I'm saying is last night it was a one-man show in the corner, and whilst Roddy is excellent, I'd have liked John and Queally to be in the corner alongside him. 3 pairs of eyes are better than 2 pairs and 2 voices in between rounds is better than one.

Like, just my opinion man

pappyodaniel

Cub Swanson by KO/TKO

Why wasn't JK at ringside?

Clive

wonderfullife wrote: »

All I'm saying is last night it was a one-man show in the corner, and whilst Roddy is excellent...

You're going back on yourself now, first you said that Owen didn't or couldn't adapt on the fly, now you're saying he just needed an extra pair of eyes.

Again the reality is different to theory, when you have a large team, not everyone is available every night. John was on holiday, Peter has a fight in Russia. Any team that is overly reliant on one or two coaches has a built in expiry date. Usually the fighter themselves will select the second corner for all sorts of reasons.

Mellor

Artem Lobov by Submission

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Why wasn't JK at ringside?

wonderfullife

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Why wasn't JK at ringside?

He was in Ireland after just getting back from Australia. I'll never ever know why he didn't just fly direct to Nashville from Sydney instead. Nobody likes long haul flights, I get that but meh what better way to round off an epic holiday than a fight in Country Music Central....

Clive wrote: »

You're going back on yourself now, first you said that Owen didn't or couldn't adapt on the fly, now you're saying he just needed an extra pair of eyes.

Again the reality is different to theory, when you have a large team, not everyone is available every night. John was on holiday, Peter has a fight in Russia. Any team that is overly reliant on one or two coaches has a built in expiry date. Usually the fighter themselves will select the second corner for all sorts of reasons.

There's no contradiction is there? I feel Owen is an excellent coach and it was a valuable learning experience for him and for Richie Smullen, to get a feel for a big fight night. I don't think it's contradictory to say John's experience in the corner might have added to what adjustments they could have suggested for Artem or that Owen might not have spotted every adjustment necessary?

Mind you, Rumble demonstrated you can have the best advice in the world from your corner and it's no guarantee a fighter can/will follow it anyway.

SBG is heavily reliant on one or two coaches though for the highest level fights. Sure you've got up-and-coming Coaches like Paddy, Blaine, Sergey, Richie Smullen, even my good friend Richy06 would make an excellent corner man if he wanted to but as far as big fight nights go, they're heavily reliant on John and Owen still. They've by far the most experience on the big stage.

Clive

I hate going back to nit pick through people's posts, but what you said initially was:

wonderfullife wrote: »

The corner arrangement was fairly poor, Richie is a great guy but he was a deer in headlights and barely said a word. Roddy is fantastic but he kept calling for pull-counters when they clearly weren't working yet didn't call for more leg kicks.

Cub's leg was in ribbons yet Artem all but abandoned that strategy when he truly needed to double up on it. It should have been leg-kick-city all the way. That's the job of a corner to assess what's working and what's not working.

That's quite a way from John might have added something or Owen might have missed something.

As for being reliant or one or two corners, no SBG aren't. Do the same people crop up again and again, yes. Are they the only people who can do the job, no.

Being a corner isn't like being a fighter, "big stage" experience happens virtually instantly. Once you've done one show with big lights, big music and big egos trying to make your fighter dance to their production tune, the UFC is no different, just a bit more red tape.

wonderfullife

Clive wrote: »

I hate going back to nit pick through people's posts, but what you said initially was:



That's quite a way from John might have added something or Owen might have missed something.

As for being reliant or one or two corners, no SBG aren't. Do the same people crop up again and again, yes. Are they the only people who can do the job, no.

Being a corner isn't like being a fighter, "big stage" experience happens virtually instantly. Once you've done one show with big lights, big music and big egos trying to make your fighter dance to their production tune, the UFC is no different, just a bit more red tape.

Clive, with all due respect this is a debate I can't win!

You're a friend of John's and an SBG Coach, so you're far better placed than me to give an informed opinion. I'm just an insomniac fan.

I'll stick to my guns that I feel John should have scheduled/adjusted his flights to go to Nashville, because Richie Smullen can't replace the experience/knowledge John would have brought to the table.

By the way I have watched some of your Grapplepalooza videos!

Gamebred

Cub Swanson by KO/TKO

Raging Al aint a happy camper, fair play to him calling Dana and the UFC out.

Gamebred

Cub Swanson by KO/TKO

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTRkit5Bl-C/?taken-by=as_shopped_as_it_gets_

Gamebred

Cub Swanson by KO/TKO

Didnt like Stann coming over in this before the result is announced.