Boilerhouse legal age

xvhvtevx

I'm 18 and me and my friend really want to go to the boilerhouse together, but he is only 17 and i'm wondering if he would be let in since the age of consent is 17..

gizmo81

You don't want to start your adult life in the Boilerhouse, there is nothing beneficial to gain.

LLMMLL

Ignore the above comment. If you want to go then go. Check their website for a phone number of you have enquiries about age, not many people go at such a young age so unlikely anyone here knows the boiler houses policy.

gizmo81

Bathhouses are antiquated, contrary to what some might say it isn't about liberation. In modern society it is actually oppressive as it engenders shame.

A young gay person should have the social skills to go out an meet someone in any setting and not have to rely on anonymous encounters in the dark.

We should be encouraging our young community members to turn away from this.

It is illegal for someone under 18 to enter the premises.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ignore the above comment. If you want to go then go. Check their website for a phone number of you have enquiries about age, not many people go at such a young age so unlikely anyone here knows the boiler houses policy.

xvhvtevx

hey, i was just asking a question.
doesn't mean we will actually go lol. don't sweat it.

gizmo81

No worries, I was just giving information.

Most will have a reckless attitude towards advising you to go there.

It's 2017 you don't need to go to places like this.

xvhvtevx wrote: »

hey, i was just asking a question.
doesn't mean we will actually go lol. don't sweat it.

Annasopra

gizmo81 wrote: »

In modern society it is actually oppressive as it engenders shame.

I dunno about that.

In a lot of European countries its much more open and positive. I think the shame bit is suggesting the shame is on people who goto saunas in Ireland. Live and let live. If people want to go there I don't think that it is shameful.

gizmo81

I don't judge people for going there but it is a continuation of the closet.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dunno about that.

In a lot of European countries its much more open and positive. I think the shame bit is suggesting the shame is on people who goto saunas in Ireland. Live and let live. If people want to go there I don't think that it is shameful.

Annasopra

gizmo81 wrote: »

I don't judge people for going there but it is a continuation of the closet.

It really isn't.



Your language about it seems very judgemental.

gizmo81

It's not judgemental. However, any criticism within the community is seen as an attack. We have a Peter pan community unable to take any responsibility for their actions.

Saunas are an extension of the closet. In the olden days it was better to have people off the streets and cruising grounds for fear of violence.

So many gay men now have a 'kink' and a pleather harness. These behaviours are socially learned, seen to raise your status in the community, seen as an assertion of your masculinity. Again a manifestation of shame rather than liberation.

I believe saunas serve a purpose for the community but to say it is liberation is completely disingenuous.

I know the Boilerhouse is trying to diversify with early morning parties but this is completely reckless IMO

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It really isn't.



Your language about it seems very judgemental.

LLMMLL

How is it a continuation of the closet when it's filled with out gay men every weekend? I'm completely mystified.

gizmo81

The closet metaphorically speaking is something that remains hidden.

Heterosexism want's to see gay mens sexuality hidden and gay men are complicit in this, through shame, (the whole masc phenomena). Shame and the closet are dependent on each other.

My research area isn't psychology but it being 'filled' is to do with gay mens inability to form long lasting emotional relationships again a result of the closet and shame, the unconscious inability to believe one is worth more than what society expects for them.

LLMMLL wrote: »

How is it a continuation of the closet when it's filled with out gay men every weekend? I'm completely mystified.

Manion

In a thread discussing a 17 year old visiting a sauna the thing that is found objectionable is the language used rather then the advice given. It's OK to promote potentially exploitive behaviour once you don't judge.

LLMMLL wrote: »

How is it a continuation of the closet when it's filled with out gay men every weekend? I'm completely mystified.

Do a search online, you find numerous articles including interviews with owners who discuss the nature of the clientele and why saunas are in decline.

LLMMLL

gizmo81 wrote: »

The closet metaphorically speaking is something that remains hidden.

Heterosexism want's to see gay mens sexuality hidden and gay men are complicit in this, through shame, (the whole masc phenomena). Shame and the closet are dependent on each other.

My research area isn't psychology but it being 'filled' is to do with gay mens inability to form long lasting emotional relationships again a result of the closet and shame, the unconscious inability to believe one is worth more than what society expects for them.

I don't think your theories are at all coherent. So you say gay men should have the skills to meet anywhere. Why can't one of those places be a sauna.

Are gay bars equally as unacceptable, given that they also"hide" gay men's sexuality. Grindr? Is the only acceptable way for gay men to meet in straight bars or something?

The reason it's "filled" is for numerous reasons, nothing to do with the closet. It's just as easy for closeted guys to.go on Grindr and not have to be seen going into a sauna. Basically, the people in there are usually just out of a club, horny, and not having any luck on Grindr. They want some easy sex and don't find the atmosphere off putting. It really is as simple as that.

Your ideas about leather are also way off. Do you actually know anyone into leather. Because I do and I've never heard of it being thought of as "masc". Harnesses and jockstraps are geared towards bottoms and guys who are paranoid about "masc" usually like to style themselves as tops. It's just a fetish people have picked up from pornography.

It's pretty obvious you're not in psychology because that's a relatively rigorous field. You sound like you're coming from a "queer theory" perspective. Emphasis on the "theory".

LLMMLL

Manion wrote: »

In a thread discussing a 17 year old visiting a sauna the thing that is found objectionable is the language used rather then the advice given. It's OK to promote potentially exploitive behaviour once you don't judge.

Nobody promoted anything. I told him to ring them and find out. And where's the exploitation? You see the world through such a strange lens.

Do a search online, you find numerous articles including interviews with owners who discuss the nature of the clientele and why saunas are in decline.

The answer is Grindr.

gizmo81

You have a limited view of what the closet is and how it functions.

Gay bars do not function in the same way as a sauna.

You seem to want to put words in my mouth but I'm very specific.

The fact you mention that ' the people in there are usually just out of a club, horny, and not having any luck on Grindr.' That is problematic, the men won't go in there until they feel they have no other option and are obviously tanked up, drugs and alcohol. You can find research after research on saunas and drugs and death.

I think we a a community should aspire to more.

You actually reinforce my point by talking about paranoia in the gay community regarding 'masc'. A harness isn't a fetish and the fact we take our cultural cues and place such emphasis on pornography is what is damaging our community. Body dysmorphia, Eating disorders, risky sexual practices etc

You can try slight me all you want but you go ahead defend the behaviour, allow 17 year olds in to saunas and the rest of us will try pick up the pieces.

The community needs to go back and read Larry Kramers book ******s.

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't think your theories are at all coherent. So you say gay men should have the skills to meet anywhere. Why can't one of those places be a sauna.

Are gay bars equally as unacceptable, given that they also"hide" gay men's sexuality. Grindr? Is the only acceptable way for gay men to meet in straight bars or something?

The reason it's "filled" is for numerous reasons, nothing to do with the closet. It's just as easy for closeted guys to.go on Grindr and not have to be seen going into a sauna. Basically, the people in there are usually just out of a club, horny, and not having any luck on Grindr. They want some easy sex and don't find the atmosphere off putting. It really is as simple as that.

Your ideas about leather are also way off. Do you actually know anyone into leather. Because I do and I've never heard of it being thought of as "masc". Harnesses and jockstraps are geared towards bottoms and guys who are paranoid about "masc" usually like to style themselves as tops. It's just a fetish people have picked up from pornography.

It's pretty obvious you're not in psychology because that's a relatively rigorous field. You sound like you're coming from a "queer theory" perspective. Emphasis on the "theory".

LLMMLL

gizmo81 wrote: »

You have a limited view of what the closet is and how it functions.

Yeah I do. I don't think you can redefine words to suit yourself. The closet is not telling people you are gay. If everyone knows you are gay and you go to a sauna, that doesn't somehow put you back in the closet.

Gay bars do not function in the same way as a sauna.

so your issue seems to be people having a kind of sex you don't approve of, not the hiding of gay sexuality.

The fact you mention that ' the people in there are usually just out of a club, horny, and not having any luck on Grindr.' That is problematic, the men won't go in there until they feel they have no other option and are obviously tanked up, drugs and alcohol. You can find research after research on saunas and drugs and death.

I think we a a community should aspire to more.

None of which has anything to do with the closet. Basically it sounds like you disapprove of risky sex. Which is fine. Im not a fan of people having risky sex either. But let's not forget that it's a tiny tiny percentage of men who go to the boilerhouse. The main venues for risky sex practices are clearly people's own homes.

You actually reinforce my point by talking about paranoia in the gay community regarding 'masc'. A harness isn't a fetish and the fact we take our cultural cues and place such emphasis on pornography is what is damaging our community. Body dysmorphia, Eating disorders, risky sexual practices etc

how is a harness not a fetish? It's basically a niche sexual taste. It's fairly rare for me to encounter guys into leather.

I also think you're wrong about porn damaging the "community". Body dysmorphia is a problem for straight men too, and the recent explosion is due to Instagram in my opinion. Porns been around forever and most people would have viewed pornstars as very far.removed from themselves, I.e. wouldn't have believed they were capable.of looking like that. Now that there's 20 guys in your gym who 5 years ago were just like you but are now showing off their roided bodies on Instagram that's far more threatening. And the biggest driver of risky sexual practices is that a lot of guys find it difficult to perform with condoms. At least among my social circle. Only one of my friends would like to not use them for porny fetishy reasons.

You can try slight me all you want but you go ahead defend the behaviour, allow 17 year olds in to saunas and the rest of us will try pick up the pieces.

The community needs to go back and read Larry Kramers book ******s.

Nobody has said allow 17 year.olds into saunas. I said ring and ask whether 17 year olds are allowed in or not. IM so puzzled where.youre getting this stuff from.

Mr.Frame

I find some of the above comments re being in the "closet" quite bizarre in the extreme.

I've been to the Boilerhouse back in the day and I went because I was horny and wanted fun i.e. sex , which I had and it was pleasurable.

Some say the boilerhouse is not the place to go as you will get an STD,(usually said by people who have never been to the BH ) true you might , but the same applies if you meet someone in a bar or a hook up on grindr.

The answer is to play safe and dont do anything that you do not want to do, ALWAYS play safe.

In reply to the OP I can understand your reasoning for going , especially if both of you cannot accomodate, you can go into a cubicle and have fun.

Go if you both want to , dont do anything you dont want to , play safe and have fun.

gizmo81

Please trying to paint me as a prude does your argument no good.

Sexual liberation is not the ability to have sex in a dark room in a sauna.

Risky sex is a result of something, many have argued the closet and shame as they are interlinked.

A Harness is not a fetish. You go to XXL or Daddi and increasing proportion of men are wearing harnesses or neoprene shoulder bolero things. This is not a sexual fetish other than perhaps a fetish for masculinity which is again self-loathing and shame.

The closet is about visibility.

I can't think of a Kosofsky quote off hand but try her Epistemology of the closet. Something like . . . the closet is not a feature of gay lives but is a major feature of their social life. I'm paraphrasing.

The closet is an oppressive societal structure. It's power drawn from heterosexism which keeps this closeted hidden world i.e. the boiler.

You could argue that the business for the boiler is built on the attachment to the closet. The secrecy etc

Please, porn is a huge problem for the Gay community, young people are being told through the media that these are our role models.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yeah I do. I don't think you can redefine words to suit yourself. The closet is not telling people you are gay. If everyone knows you are gay and you go to a sauna, that doesn't somehow put you back in the closet.

so your issue seems to be people having a kind of sex you don't approve of, not the hiding of gay sexuality.



None of which has anything to do with the closet. Basically it sounds like you disapprove of risky sex. Which is fine. Im not a fan of people having risky sex either. But let's not forget that it's a tiny tiny percentage of men who go to the boilerhouse. The main venues for risky sex practices are clearly people's own homes.

how is a harness not a fetish? It's basically a niche sexual taste. It's fairly rare for me to encounter guys into leather.

I also think you're wrong about porn damaging the "community". Body dysmorphia is a problem for straight men too, and the recent explosion is due to Instagram in my opinion. Porns been around forever and most people would have viewed pornstars as very far.removed from themselves, I.e. wouldn't have believed they were capable.of looking like that. Now that there's 20 guys in your gym who 5 years ago were just like you but are now showing off their roided bodies on Instagram that's far more threatening. And the biggest driver of risky sexual practices is that a lot of guys find it difficult to perform with condoms. At least among my social circle. Only one of my friends would like to not use them for porny fetishy reasons.



Nobody has said allow 17 year.olds into saunas. I said ring and ask whether 17 year olds are allowed in or not. IM so puzzled where.youre getting this stuff from.

LLMMLL

gizmo81 wrote: »

Please trying to paint me as a prude does your argument no good.

Sexual liberation is not the ability to have sex in a dark room in a sauna.

I'm not painting you as a prude. You just come across as one. You find this kind of sex unacceptable. Maybe it's personal distaste. Maybe you feel it reflects badly on the "community". Whatever your reason I don't see how it's different from someone from a Catholic perspective shaming guys from it.

And you may think you're coming from some kind of researched intellectual perspective but the way you speak betrays you. Who cares.if it's dark? The cabins have lights. People have sex in darkened rooms in their own homes. Gay and straight. It really comes across that you just have a personal distaste for this kind of sex I.e. prudish.

Risky sex is a result of something, many have argued the closet and shame as they are interlinked.

I know how these "arguments" work. I point out that there are plenty of out gay proud men who get STIs. The "queer theorist" says even out gay proud.men are subject to "shame". They just have a lens they see it all through and shape facts to their theories.

A Harness is not a fetish. You go to XXL or Daddi and increasing proportion of men are wearing harnesses or neoprene shoulder bolero things. This is not a sexual fetish other than perhaps a fetish for masculinity which is again self-loathing and shame.

Harnesses are clearly fetishes. Daddies caters to bear and gear fetishes. And as I've said leather has nothing to do with masc fetishes. Do you know anyone into the leather scene? Genuine question.

The closet is about visibility.

I can't think of a Kosofsky quote off hand but try her Epistemology of the closet. Something like . . . the closet is not a feature of gay lives but is a major feature of their social life. I'm paraphrasing.

The closet is an oppressive societal structure. It's power drawn from heterosexism which keeps this closeted hidden world i.e. the boiler.

You could argue that the business for the boiler is built on the attachment to the closet. The secrecy etc

There is no way I would read that book. That paraphrase already sounds like nonsense to me.

I know you think you're being clear but I can't work out if you have a problem with gay men having seedy sex, or if you think it should be done more openly. The last paragraph sounds like you want gay sex to be less hidden. What are you actually proposing practically? I'm not sure you know.

Please, porn is a huge problem for the Gay community, young people are being told through the media that these are our role models.

If that were true wouldn't more young guys want to become porn stars?

gizmo81

What kind of sex do I find unacceptable? I don't come across as a prude, you are reading it that way to further your argument. I have never said I don't use a sauna but you are presuming that. I have defended saunas in this thread but again you chose to ignore it because you've got your back up.

I have no judgement for the men who go to saunas, i may be one of them, but please don't say men go there because they are liberated.

There's research on how Saunas could become part of the community, with education and better resources instead they are kept for the economy of the closet and shame. Fact! This is something I favour.

You are confusing the speech act of 'coming out' which the societal structure of the closet.

Anyone who has sex can acquire an STI.

A harness is not a fetish! Unless it's objectophillia. Half of the harnesses on the scene are pleather, it's not a leather fetish. It's an assertion of this 'masc' phenomena which is a result of shame and the closet.

If you don't want to read that's your problem not mine, the fact you disregard substantial research means you are wasting not only your own time but mine.

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm not painting you as a prude. You just come across as one. You find this kind of sex unacceptable. Maybe it's personal distaste. Maybe you feel it reflects badly on the "community". Whatever your reason I don't see how it's different from someone from a Catholic perspective shaming guys from it.

And you may think you're coming from some kind of researched intellectual perspective but the way you speak betrays you. Who cares.if it's dark? The cabins have lights. People have sex in darkened rooms in their own homes. Gay and straight. It really comes across that you just have a personal distaste for this kind of sex I.e. prudish.



I know how these "arguments" work. I point out that there are plenty of out gay proud men who get STIs. The "queer theorist" says even out gay proud.men are subject to "shame". They just have a lens they see it all through and shape facts to their theories.



Harnesses are clearly fetishes. Daddies caters to bear and gear fetishes. And as I've said leather has nothing to do with masc fetishes. Do you know anyone into the leather scene? Genuine question.



There is no way I would read that book. That paraphrase already sounds like nonsense to me.

I know you think you're being clear but I can't work out if you have a problem with gay men having seedy sex, or if you think it should be done more openly. The last paragraph sounds like you want gay sex to be less hidden. What are you actually proposing practically? I'm not sure you know.



If that were true wouldn't more young guys want to become porn stars?

LLMMLL

gizmo81 wrote: »

What kind of sex do I find unacceptable? I don't come across as a prude, you are reading it that way to further your argument. I have never said I don't use a sauna but you are presuming that. I have defended saunas in this thread but again you chose to ignore it because you've got your back up.

I have no judgement for the men who go to saunas, i may be one of them, but please don't say men go there because they are liberated.

Well as others have said your language was judgemental. You made no effort to change it after it was pointed out. So you came across as prudish. I can't help how you come across.

Nobody has said men go because they are liberated. You brought that aspect into it. I don't see an individual's decision to go to a sauna or not to go to a sauna as having anything to do with liberation. You brought this "community" aspect into it.

I must have missed your defense of saunas. I still don't see where you defended them.

There's research on how Saunas could become part of the community, with education and better resources instead they are kept for the economy of the closet and shame. Fact! This is something I favour.

You use terms like "the economy of closet and shame" and use fact in the same sentence? This is more awful queer theory stuff. You cant see things through the lens of a dodgy theory and then claim it's fact. I don't even think most queer theorists would call their research factual.

You are confusing the speech act of 'coming out' which the societal structure of the closet.

I'm not. The speech act of coming out is.not the same.as the closet. But those who do the speech act of coming out ARE out of the closet. It's basically how everyone who is not involved.in queer theory defines the words "coming out" and "closet".

I see your definition of "the closet" as a made up concept around which to hang outlandish theories which cast every gay man as full of shame, regardless of how he feels about his own life. I don't think I'm confused at all.

Anyone who has Sex can acquire an STI.

Of course. But if risky sex and "the closet" were linked then you'd see more closeted guys with STIs than out guys.

A harness is not a fetish! Unless it's objectophillia. Half of the harnesses on the scene are pleather, it's not a leather fetish. It's an assertion of this 'masc' phenomena which is a result of shame and the closet.

Only if you use "fetish" to mean they're sexually into the item itself, whether someone is wearing it or not. Most people Would say if you're attracted to a guy wearing leather then you have a leather fetish. I know a good few guys into leather and nobody has ever linked it to being masculine.

If you don't want to read that's your problem not mine, the fact you disregard substantial research means you are wasting not only your own time but mine.

I don't mind reading but I'd like something rooted in proper research, not nonsense. I looked up this kasosofsky and well...... The less said the better.

Goodshape

You are coming across as pretty judgmental, Gizmo. You're taking in absolutes about the people who attend saunas and why they might; it IS a part of 'the closet', it IS shameful.

But you also claim to be defending them in some way and that you're not judging? Afraid that's not coming across very well in your comments. It's a bit confusing.

I know people who have attended the boiler house and there's no shame involved. I know straight friends who are downright jealous that gay men have a place like that to go to. And visitors from Europe who are wondering where the rest of it is (club dark rooms, etc). I don't know where the shame and "closet" comes into it.

It's not for everyone, I don't think it'd be for me, but I think you're getting things backwards. Adults can make their own decisions on these things and it's not up to you or me to assume or project shame and denial upon them.

gizmo81

I use words as they are defined.
You accuse me of trying to redefine words but you are now saying saying a fetish isn't a fetish.

The majority of men who profess to having a fetish for leather are in fact fetching masculinity. Again check out a book called Gay Skins which argues that this fetish is just a reproduction of oppression.

Kosofsky has made a huge contribution to gender/ queer theory.


For your information yesterday I said:

I believe saunas serve a purpose for the community but to say it is liberation is completely disingenuous.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Well as others have said your language was judgemental. You made no effort to change it after it was pointed out. So you came across as prudish. I can't help how you come across.

Nobody has said men go because they are liberated. You brought that aspect into it. I don't see an individual's decision to go to a sauna or not to go to a sauna as having anything to do with liberation. You brought this "community" aspect into it.

I must have missed your defense of saunas. I still don't see where you defended them.



You use terms like "the economy of closet and shame" and use fact in the same sentence? This is more awful queer theory stuff. You cant see things through the lens of a dodgy theory and then claim it's fact. I don't even think most queer theorists would call their research factual.



I'm not. The speech act of coming out is.not the same.as the closet. But those who do the speech act of coming out ARE out of the closet. It's basically how everyone who is not involved.in queer theory defines the words "coming out" and "closet".

I see your definition of "the closet" as a made up concept around which to hang outlandish theories which cast every gay man as full of shame, regardless of how he feels about his own life. I don't think I'm confused at all.


Of course. But if risky sex and "the closet" were linked then you'd see more closeted guys with STIs than out guys.



Only if you use "fetish" to mean they're sexually into the item itself, whether someone is wearing it or not. Most people Would say if you're attracted to a guy wearing leather then you have a leather fetish. I know a good few guys into leather and nobody has ever linked it to being masculine.


I don't mind reading but I'd like something rooted in proper research, not nonsense. I looked up this kasosofsky and well...... The less said the better.

LLMMLL

gizmo81 wrote: »

I use words as they are defined.
You accuse me of trying to redefine words but you are now saying saying a fetish isn't a fetish.

You don't really. I can't find your definition of the closet anywhere.

The majority of men who profess to having a fetish for leather are in fact fetching masculinity. Again check out a book called Gay Skins which argues that this fetish is just a reproduction of oppression.

Can you tell me what method the author used to discern that gay men who are into leather have a fetish for masculinity?

Kosofsky has made a huge contribution to gender/ queer theory.

Maybe, but it's a nonsense field. I particularly enjoyed her stuff on Henry James using words with "rect" in them. GroundbBreaking stuff.

gizmo81

Amazon have the book.

LLMMLL wrote: »

You don't really. I can't find your definition of the closet anywhere.



Can you tell me what method the author used to discern that gay men who are into leather have a fetish for masculinity?



Maybe, but it's a nonsense field. I particularly enjoyed her stuff on Henry James using words with "rect" in them. GroundbBreaking stuff.

LLMMLL

I looked it up and it's just the usual queer theory stuff. No evidence based research.

Mr.Frame

Perhaps if some stopped reading books about "theories " and allowed people to live their lives as they wished.
Try forget about "the community" and live and let live.

gizmo81

"Try forget about "the community" sums up the problem entirely. Each gay for themselves to hell with anyone else!

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Perhaps if some stopped reading books about "theories " and allowed people to live their lives as they wished.
Try forget about "the community" and live and let live.

xvhvtevx

Can anyone give me a rundown of how the whole thing looks like? Thanks

gizmo81

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/last-days-of-the-irish-gay-sauna-1.2975569

xvhvtevx wrote: »

Can anyone give me a rundown of how the whole thing looks like? Thanks

gizmo81

"The real motivator for men to use saunas isn’t just any old sex though – it’s a specific type. Cheap and anonymous, it requires none of the responsibilities of a relationship. The cheap part is easy to pass off, but the need for anonymity and the fear of intimacy are more complex social issues. We can’t ignore the reality that some gay men are addicted to one-night stands and, because of arrested development and/or internalised homophobia, run the risk of never achieving their potential for finding long-term partners.

I’ve no doubt that many of the lads who frequent saunas are happy and fulfilled in their lives. However, on my visits I’ve seen a lot of drunken desperation, sometimes laced with thinly veiled shame and internalised agesim."

http://theoutmost.com/opinion/trouble-gay-saunas/

Mr.Frame

gizmo81 wrote: »

"Try forget about "the community" sums up the problem entirely. Each gay for themselves to hell with anyone else!

You left out the part where I said "live and let live".

With respect you do come across as if you have a bee in your bonnet when it comes to being gay or people going to a sauna.

A young guy asked a question re minimum age to go to the boilerhouse and most of that has been taken up with "your view" of the "gay community".
It seems all of it is based on books you read with various theories or numerous links of articles by other people.

I am curious though by your comment "that sums up the problem entirely".

Would you be so kind as to elaborate

gizmo81

I advised an 18 year old not to take his underage friend there. Nothing good can come from that.

Then posters attacked me and I tried to explain that I feel that saunas are an extension of the closet and shame.

Perhaps, I have not made it very clear but being attacked by every poster doesn't help me articulate it. I haven't; made this up, there is a lot of research on this but people on the thread would prefer to dismiss respected academics.

I haven't stopped anyone going to the boiler house, I defended it earlier in the thread, i advocate it changes it's role within the community to become a resource and centre for education (the have suspended their rapid HIV testing) while remaining a sauna instead of lining someones pockets with no thought about the impact saunas have on the community.

Mr.Frame wrote: »

You left out the part where I said "live and let live".

With respect you do come across as if you have a bee in your bonnet when it comes to being gay or people going to a sauna.

A young guy asked a question re minimum age to go to the boilerhouse and most of that has been taken up with "your view" of the "gay community".
It seems all of it is based on books you read with various theories or numerous links of articles by other people.

I am curious though by your comment "that sums up the problem entirely".

Would you be so kind as to elaborate

gizmo81

Check out a thread on here from a couple of months ago, opinions are varied.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057684512&page=2

xvhvtevx wrote: »

Can anyone give me a rundown of how the whole thing looks like? Thanks

Mr.Frame

gizmo81 wrote: »

I advised an 18 year old not to take his underage friend there. Nothing good can come from that.

Then posters attacked me and I tried to explain that I feel that saunas are an extension of the closet and shame.

Perhaps, I have not made it very clear but being attacked by every poster doesn't help me articulate it. I haven't; made this up, there is a lot of research on this but people on the thread would prefer to dismiss respected academics.

I haven't stopped anyone going to the boiler house, I defended it earlier in the thread, i advocate it changes it's role within the community to become a resource and centre for education (the have suspended their rapid HIV testing) while remaining a sauna instead of lining someones pockets with no thought about the impact saunas have on the community.

I fail to understand the comment "that saunas are an extension of the closet and shame".
Why should a sauna change its role withing the "community"to become a resource for education".

A sauna is there for people to go and meet and have fun. They provide condoms and advise people to have safe sex.
If people do not wish to take that on board , thats up to the people/person themselves (unfortunately).
A sauna is not some centre for education nor should it be.
I fail to see what you mean by "no thought about the impact saunas have on the community."

baby and crumble

Any chance we could stay stay on topic of the Op? A theoretical debate re: queer theory, the closet etc may be interesting but maybe start a new thread or head over to humanities?

LLMMLL

gizmo81 wrote: »

I advised an 18 year old not to take his underage friend there. Nothing good can come from that.

I've created another thread to discuss the whole.sauna and shame stuff. But will respond to this part here as I think it's on topic.

The friend is the legal age to consent to sex. I'm not sure they are underage to go to the BH though they may be as I think alcohol is served there I'm not sure. I advised to ring and ask. That's all. You're acting like everyone is trying to force a 17 year old to go to a sauna against his will.

LLMMLL

xvhvtevx wrote: »

Can anyone give me a rundown of how the whole thing looks like? Thanks

It's basically a tall building with not much floor space on each floor. Ground floor is a bar and lockers. Next floor is more lockers toilets and a.porn cinema and a few cabins. Next floor up is jacuzzi sauna steamroll showers and toilets and a few cabins. Next floor up is cabins and showers. Next floor up is porn cinema, darkroom and a few cabins.

Doctor Nick

Last time I was in the BH (over 10 years at this stage) it was strictly over 18 and they did not serve alcohol. This may have changed in the interim with regards alcohol but don't think they have with regards to age.

I think alcohol in saunas is a bad idea however, having been to Thermos in Amsterdam (fantastic sauna) who do serve alcohol I've never seen any trouble.

pauliebdub

It's a sleazy kip filled with loneliness and desperation and you're about as likely to contract an sti than meet a nice fella. Save your 22 quid for something worthwhile. Join a social group if you want to meet nice people.

ongarboy

pauliebdub wrote: »

It's a sleazy kip filled with loneliness and desperation and you're about as likely to contract an sti than meet a nice fella. Save your 22 quid for something worthwhile. Join a social group if you want to meet nice people.

Why so judgemental or are you projecting your own issues of loneliness and desperation - how do you categorically know the vast majority of punters there are like what you say?  Realistically, more people probably score and do the business from hooking up in Coppers or any other similar large nightclub across the country every Friday or Saturday night than may do in the Boilerhouse, yet you don't appear to call them out. (or maybe you do which makes you even more prudish)  Yes, the methods and intentions at the Boiler house may be more visible or direct but the end result and underlying motivations are the same anywhere people want to meet others to score (gay or straight).

pauliebdub

ongarboy wrote: »

Why so judgemental or are you projecting your own issues of loneliness and desperation - how do you categorically know the vast majority of punters there are like what you say?  Realistically, more people probably score and do the business from hooking up in Coppers or any other similar large nightclub across the country every Friday or Saturday night than may do in the Boilerhouse, yet you don't appear to call them out. (or maybe you do which makes you even more prudish)  Yes, the methods and intentions at the Boiler house may be more visible or direct but the end result and underlying motivations are the same anywhere people want to meet others to score (gay or straight).

It's an observation, I've been there a few times before. If I was to have a conversation with a 17 year old I'd tell him to stay well away from the place. There's far better and healthier ways to meet men.

Doctor Nick

pauliebdub wrote: »

It's an observation, I've been there a few times before. If I was to have a conversation with a 17 year old I'd tell him to stay well away from the place. There's far better and healthier ways to meet men.

It's only unhealthy if you take risks. I used to go regularly. Then I got involved with somebody in 2005 and stopped going. That relationship is over and I never bothered going back as tbh it doesn't really appeal to me anymore but when I was going I was around 18/19 years old and I had great times there and met some very nice people (and a lot of arseholes but that's life).

Bottom line is it can be good fun and they provide the necessities (condoms/lube) for good safe fun. The onus is on the customer to use them and any health related matters that occur for not using said items is on that person, not the BH.

And I'm still pretty certain it's over 18's.

Duncanwooly

Live and let live; if the lads want to do it then it's up to them.

BUT, they're 17/18 for christ's sake. Fun should be waiting for a free gaff for the night not going to the boiler house. They might be legal, but are do they have the confidence to adequately tackle questions of consent that might come up. Could their naivety make them impressionable or could older man coerce them?

LLMMLL

Duncanwooly wrote: »

or could older man coerce them?

What do you think these "older men" are gonna do? Lire them into their darkened van with a lollipop?

Duncanwooly

I might be mistaken using the world older. Regardless, the question of consent in the boiler house is not just black and white. Are you connecting to sex, are you consenting to sex being watched by Mr X, Y & Z what happens if Mr Y wants to join in; can he?

Mr.Frame

Duncanwooly wrote: »

I might be mistaken using the world older. Regardless, the question of consent in the boiler house is not just black and white. Are you connecting to sex, are you consenting to sex being watched by Mr X, Y & Z what happens if Mr Y wants to join in; can he?

Do i take from your comments that you think people will be coerced into doing something they dont want to ??

I take it you've never been to the BH,given some of your rather startling assumptions.

baby and crumble

In all fairness, whether it's done maliciously or not, it's very easy for an older person (and I include women in that) to use their social skills which are undeniably more advanced most of the time than an 18 year old in those situations to muddy the waters. It happens all the time. Nobody is saying that all the men older than 20 are out to trick the teenagers into sex they don't want.

LLMMLL

baby and crumble wrote: »

In all fairness, whether it's done maliciously or not, it's very easy for an older person (and I include women in that) to use their social skills which are undeniably more advanced most of the time than an 18 year old in those situations to muddy the waters. It happens all the time. Nobody is saying that all the men older than 20 are out to trick the teenagers into sex they don't want.

Can you be specific about what these skills are and how they are used?

Doctor Nick

Duncanwooly wrote: »

I might be mistaken using the world older. Regardless, the question of consent in the boiler house is not just black and white. Are you connecting to sex, are you consenting to sex being watched by Mr X, Y & Z what happens if Mr Y wants to join in; can he?

You most definitely have never been to the Boilerhouse. I wasn't (still not) into group sessions and/or voyeurism (neither watching or being watched). If you're not into it, you go into a cubicle and lock the door. Privacy, just you and the person you fancied.