March for Science, Dublin, 22/04

bnt

News report with more details here: it starts 2PM at the Grand Canal Square.
I'm tempted to go along with a sign that says "DOUN WIV SHKOOL" or "I Have No Idea What I'm Doing Here". :pac:

That report makes it sound a bit like it's about Climate Change in particular, which it's not - though they are connected, of course. Anyone else up for this?

riffmongous

Most of my colleagues, academics, are planning to go to the one where I live.. not sure I'll go myself, not quite certain what it can achieve. Would I take a job in the US in environmental science at the moment though? No, heard nothing good from there since Trump took over, lots of uncertainty and negativity over funding and research directions

skankkuvhima

It this another march just for slagging of Trump again?

GLaDOS

I probably should be, but I have to confess I'm pretty ignorant as to the aims of the march

biko

The global scientific community has come together to agree that on 22 April, the same as Earth Day, there will be a March for Science to protest against potential threats from US president Donald Trump.

Sounds less like a march for science than a march against Trump

I might go.

conorhal

biko wrote: »

Sounds less like a march for science than a march against Trump.

You can turn it into an antiTrump march if you like, but way to undermine it's purpose!

Many a good idea these days gets hijacked by the usual loons and people are then too afraid to challenge them. The Washington march for science cause quite a bit of controversy after is descended into intersectional political infighting about how lacking in diversity or failing to address LGBTQ issues the march.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/10/bill-nyes-march-for-science-role-helps-stir-politi/

Zuleyka Zevallos, a sociologist and adjunct research fellow with Swinburne University in Melbourne, Australia, chronicled the march’s heated back-and-forth over diversity, which included four rewritten diversity statements as organizers reacted to criticism from both sides.


In a Jan. 28 tweet, the March for Science posted a tweet saying “colonization, racism, immigration, native rights, sexism, ableism, queer-, trans-, intersex-phobia, & econ justice are scientific issues,†but later removed it, Ms. Zevallos reported.


Among those who criticized the post was Harvard professor Steven Pinker, who accused organizers of compromising its goals with “anti-science PC/identity politics/hard-left rhetoric.â€
“The constant flip-flops on its diversity stance suggest that, at best, the organizers are undecided or lack the skills on how to manage inclusion issues,†Ms. Zevallos said in a March 14 post on Latino Rebels. “At worst, it gives the unfortunate impression that they have a wavering commitment to diversity, one which bends to the shifts of public pressure.â€
At the heart of the debate is that organizers are conflating science, which is a method, with a host of public policy issues, said Mr. Smith.
“The problem now is that many who claim to be about science are really about social policy and ideology,†he said, “which are not the same things at all.â€

bnt

biko wrote: »

Sounds less like a march for science than a march against Trump

Maybe Trump and those he's appointed, as well as the Congress that approved the appointments. Such as the new chief of the Environmental Protection gency, Scott Pruitt, who doesn't believe CO₂ levels contribute to global warming.

It's not just about global warming - we're talking about an apparent anti-science attitude that favours certain big industries such as oil and coal, regardless of what he actually believes, and there are many such others in the new administration.

biko

I can see how US scientists may be affected by a change in the government administration.
So what are scientists in Ireland marching for? Support with their US peers in case Trump turn out to defund them?

If this gets hijacked by climate lobby then you will split this down along those lines and tbh you will risk to make science political.

This is one person's reasons
https://sciencemarchie.wordpress.com/2017/04/13/why-i-am-marching-caitriona-buggle/

So what is at stake if the current political trend of condemning science and scientific evidence continues?
To prevent this from ever happening we must all unite to support and celebrate science as a focal point within our societies and cultures.

In my humble opinion there is zero threat against science in Europe.
The threat against science in America is from the Christian loonies so for me it would be better with a March for Science and Reason against religion.

This is my I may go, to show my support with science over religious nuts.

bnt

Oh, I hope the identity politics / social justice crowd don't muscle in on this march. It's supposed to be about science, innit?

The_Valeyard

biko wrote: »

The threat against science in America is from the Christian loonies so for me it would be better with a March for Science and Reason against religion.

This is my I may go, to show my support with science over religious nuts.

So why March in Europe where quite often religion and science go hand in hand.

riffmongous

biko wrote: »

I can see how US scientists may be affected by a change in the government administration.
So what are scientists in Ireland marching for? Support with their US peers in case Trump turn out to defund them?

If this gets hijacked by climate lobby then you will split this down along those lines and tbh you will risk to make science political.

This is one person's reasons
https://sciencemarchie.wordpress.com/2017/04/13/why-i-am-marching-caitriona-buggle/

In my humble opinion there is zero threat against science in Europe.
The threat against science in America is from the Christian loonies so for me it would be better with a March for Science and Reason against religion.

This is my I may go, to show my support with science over religious nuts.

The science community is based on internationalism though, and the US is at the moment probably the best and biggest country in the world for science, any changes that affect that will have a knock-on effect on the rest of the community

Your Face

My colleagues and I are marching to represent the Eugenics Society of Ireland.

Hande hoche!

Wonder which part of the march Antifa will attack?

YFlyer

Laboratory technicians can stay on campus.

My name is URL

Your Face wrote: »

My colleagues and I are marching to represent the Eugenics Society of Ireland.

Your presence will no doubt provide a fine argument for eugenics

Outlaw Pete

I'll be there.... just getting my banner ready.

Your Face

My name is URL wrote: »

Your presence will no doubt provide a fine argument for eugenics

Whoosh

riffmongous

My name is URL wrote: »

Your presence will no doubt provide a fine argument for eugenics

OP is a middle class tw*t

topper75

biko wrote: »

Sounds less like a march for science than a march against Trump

I might go.

Trump has been known to change his mind when people marched against him.

Well.

Once.

In some crusty crank's wild dream.

But hey.

bnt

cisk wrote: »

OP is a middle class tw*t

Middle class is a bad thing? From that lot it sounds like a badge of honour that shows me their ignorance of history and economics. Let me Google "class dynamics" and see what I can dredge up ... :rolleyes:

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

In a Jan. 28 tweet, the March for Science posted a tweet saying colonization, racism, immigration, native rights, sexism, ableism, queer-, trans-, intersex-phobia, & econ justice are scientific issues, but later removed it, Ms. Zevallos reported.

So in other words.......complete and utter bollocks from the social justice warriors pretending to care about science. God help us if this is the standard of scientists for the future.

bnt

OK, I Googled "class dynamics", and didn't actually find anything terribly offensive to me ... but neither did I find anything to make me give a hoot about "class dynamics" today, since we're talking about Science, and Science doesn't give a hoot about your class. It's a bit like Reality in that respect. There are far greater problems facing the people of the world than your identity politics.

stimpson

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I'll be there.... just getting my banner ready.

I'll counter with this one:

Ulysses Gaze

bnt wrote: »

News report with more details here: it starts 2PM at the Grand Canal Square.
I'm tempted to go along with a sign that says "DOUN WIV SHKOOL" or "I Have No Idea What I'm Doing Here". :pac:

That report makes it sound a bit like it's about Climate Change in particular, which it's not - though they are connected, of course. Anyone else up for this?

Yes. I will be there with my "Wenger Out" placard.

silverharp

if there is a march to keep SJW's out of science Ill be there, its too late for some but there is still hope before its too late, I thought I'd heard it all but decolonising science takes the biscuit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SiRNibD14

Capt'n Midnight

Is there any peer reviewed research to show they are effective ?

bnt

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Is there any peer reviewed research to show they are effective ?

You have to run the experiment first, y'know ...

bnt

This piece on the RTÉ website is pretty good. This is not about Trump specifically: he's only the latest reflection of a long-running anti-science agenda, and not just in the USA. It's not just about nuns getting control of a state-funded maternity hospital. It's not just about climate change denial in the face of tangible evidence.

In my view it's about the wilful ignorance of the real world in favour of financial gain (against which politics and religion are mere tools). Look at the world and you see the impact of stupidity in everything that's going wrong - war famine, pestilence, we're doing it to ourselves because we can't see past our own selfish, short-term interests. It's about the pressing global need for everyone to be smarter about everything. :cool:

Ulysses Gaze

silverharp wrote: »

if there is a march to keep SJW's out of science Ill be there, its too late for some but there is still hope before its too late, I thought I'd heard it all but decolonising science takes the biscuit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SiRNibD14

suicide_circus

So is this march an actual attempt to promote a logical evidence based approach to global affairs with reference to government policies such as climate change,blaspheme laws and education or is it going to be hijacked by the usual hoards right2water, lgbtq, sinn fein, erigi, repeal the eigth what ever issue is de rigueur?

keano_afc

skankkuvhima wrote: »

It this another march just for slagging of Trump again?

Pretty much, just with bunsen burners instead of pussy hats.

ScumLord

I'm not walking anywhere for science, the whole point of science is so I don't have walk to places.

Snickers Man

bnt wrote: »

Oh, I hope the identity politics / social justice crowd don't muscle in on this march. It's supposed to be about science, innit?

Don't worry! They've got their own march elsewhere that day.

Ulysses Gaze

Fr_Dougal

My sign is ready.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

riffmongous wrote: »

Most of my colleagues, academics, are planning to go to the one where I live.. not sure I'll go myself, not quite certain what it can achieve. Would I take a job in the US in environmental science at the moment though? No, heard nothing good from there since Trump took over, lots of uncertainty and negativity over funding and research directions

I would be concerned that academics would be this gullible without researching exactly who is leading this march tomorrow, and how it will be hijacked to promote leftist agendas.
It suggests there is a flaw in their decision making process, as they can't separate logic from emotion.

This march is nothing more than a thinly veiled anti-Trump campaign, and there's no point in pretending otherwise. If you want to campaign against Trump go right ahead, just don't try pretending that it's a science issue. There are valid arguments regarding the administrations approach to science; this isn't one of them.

Science is about truth, each and every time.

AtomicHorror

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I would be concerned that academics would be this gullible without researching exactly who is leading this march tomorrow, and how it will be hijacked to promote leftist agendas.
It suggests there is a flaw in their decision making process, as they can't separate logic from emotion.

Could you break down the logic for us? Not sure what you're getting at.

AtomicHorror

bnt wrote: »

This piece on the RTÉ website is pretty good. This is not about Trump specifically: he's only the latest reflection of a long-running anti-science agenda, and not just in the USA. It's not just about nuns getting control of a state-funded maternity hospital. It's not just about climate change denial in the face of tangible evidence.

In my view it's about the wilful ignorance of the real world in favour of financial gain (against which politics and religion are mere tools). Look at the world and you see the impact of stupidity in everything that's going wrong - war famine, pestilence, we're doing it to ourselves because we can't see past our own selfish, short-term interests. It's about the pressing global need for everyone to be smarter about everything. :cool:

Yes, this has been going on for decades globally. Politicians have used what truth serves them and ignored all else, that's when they're not simply fabricating or reinterpreting the facts. Trump, due to his reach and potential to do harm, will necessarily be a lighting rod. So we can expect that many will see this as specifically "anti-Trump", which of course is sufficient for them to dismiss the entire affair.

diomed

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cdRv1O8Rg-_aVC7N81Z6ROrV6_A=/0x0:524x349/1310x873/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/25006307/moran.0.jpg

Science research is woefully underfunded in Ireland at the moment, that is reason enough to march for me. Holding our government and world governments to task about issues such as climate change, antibiotic resistance etc is just as important. I never thought of it as an anti-Trump event at all, although the rise of dismissal of 'experts' in recent years is worrying and obviously linked to recent political upheavals...

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

Science research is woefully underfunded in Ireland at the moment, that is reason enough to march for me. Holding our government and world governments to task about issues such as climate change, antibiotic resistance etc is just as important. I never thought of it as an anti-Trump event at all, although the rise of dismissal of 'experts' in recent years is worrying and obviously linked to recent political upheavals...

we want some hard science though that generates some excitement. A manned mission to Mars, a breakthrough in Fusion power, a moon base.

riffmongous

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I would be concerned that academics would be this gullible without researching exactly who is leading this march tomorrow, and how it will be hijacked to promote leftist agendas.
It suggests there is a flaw in their decision making process, as they can't separate logic from emotion.

This march is nothing more than a thinly veiled anti-Trump campaign, and there's no point in pretending otherwise. If you want to campaign against Trump go right ahead, just don't try pretending that it's a science issue. There are valid arguments regarding the administrations approach to science; this isn't one of them.

Science is about truth, each and every time.

Eh we are not in Ireland So you can piss of with your anti academic nonsense

Pherekydes

diomed wrote: »

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cdRv1O8Rg-_aVC7N81Z6ROrV6_A=/0x0:524x349/1310x873/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/25006307/moran.0.jpg

I had a FB friend (ex-colleague) called Brian Moran. He died. :eek:

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Science research is woefully underfunded in Ireland at the moment, .

And even then the funding goes mostly to stuff likely to produce a quick return. Think of as state subsidised commercial R&D rather than pure science.

bnt

I'm going to go, take a look, and if I don't like what I see, I'll walk the other way. I particularly don't to see any bolshie socialist stuff. It's got to be about science, first and foremost, if I'm going to take part.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Could you break down the logic for us? Not sure what you're getting at.

From what I'm seeing, most people haven't a clue about who is organising this event, what the agenda is, and how it is being hijacked. The march is being promoted as one concerned about the Trump administrations policies on science. In reality, it is probably a front organisation for the usual radical rent-a-mob that will show up, push their agendas, and maybe burn a few things and break windows. This women's march wasn't much different, every nutbag with an axe to grind was allowed up on stage and promoted. Including one notable woman who served time for torturing a man to death, then boasting about raping him with an iron bar. It was more of a politically narcissistic bandwagon that didn't even seem to have a real message, apart from "BOO Trump!"

Essentially, I am saying that a lot of people will be attending because they 'feel' a resentment to Donald Trump, rather than having any real understanding of the problems and issues involved. Also, what the hell is this supposed to achieve? America has no influence on Irish science policy, so why bother? It's not a logical or rational thing to do. Once again, this is simply another anti-American, anti-Trump circus act.

Recently, Vladimir Putin suggested that climate skeptics may not be that silly. Where is the march and uproar about that?
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/30/vladimir-putin-russia-trump-us-climate-policy.html

Also, the March For Science states that one of it's missions is to celebrate diversity. Ok, what the fcuk has that got to do with science? Do you really need a march to let the world know how diverse you are? I don't think so.

https://sciencemarchie.wordpress.com/mission/

Then there's this chestnut from the main page:

Inclusion, diversity, equity, and accessibility are central to the mission and principles of the March for Science. Scientists and people who care about science are an intersectional group, embodying a diverse range of races, sexual orientations, gender identities, abilities, religions, ages, socioeconomic and immigration statuses. We, the march organizers, represent and stand in solidarity with historically underrepresented scientists and science advocates. We are united by our passion to pursue and share knowledge.

Science is now about "intersectional groups, socioeconomic and immigration statuses?" My arse, this movement has an agenda that you can read with your eyes closed.
Read more here: https://www.marchforscience.com/diversity-principles/

riffmongous wrote: »

Eh we are not in Ireland So you can piss of with your anti academic nonsense

You've lost me. Who is not in Ireland?

bnt

So far, so sensible. Minimal dreadlocks ...

twill

Deleted User wrote: »

Science research is woefully underfunded in Ireland at the moment, that is reason enough to march for me. Holding our government and world governments to task about issues such as climate change, antibiotic resistance etc is just as important. I never thought of it as an anti-Trump event at all, although the rise of dismissal of 'experts' in recent years is worrying and obviously linked to recent political upheavals...

So is the lack of funding for scientific research what the march is about? I still have no idea.

hungry hypno toad

twill wrote: »

So is the lack of funding for scientific research what the march is about? I still have no idea.

It is an anti-Trump match, plain and simple.