Could a terror attack happen in Ireland?

MRnotlob606

It would be naive to think a terror attack couldn't happen in Ireland.

gitzy16v

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Do explain.

Quite simply,I think Isis sympathisers were rescued from the med along with genuine folk.

Barry Badrinath

gitzy16v wrote: »

Quite simply,I think Isis sympathisers were rescued from the med along with genuine folk.

You *think*.

What leads you to *think* that?

pangbang

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Do explain.

The Irish navy (and others) eventually ended up as a taxi service from north Africa to Europe.

I mean put yourself in someones shoes himming and hawing about the risk of travelling across the med. Risky stuff (whether youre a terrorist or not).

One day youre slapping the arse off a camel and your mate comes running along.

"Have you heard? We don't need to get across the medditterrean, we only need to get beyond the coast! Sure its a doddle, mick!"

"I'm sold, lets go!"

Heres a harsh way to put it. Imagine an Italian ship blasted a smugglers boat to kingdom come at the get go, lets say they killed 200 people. Now what effect do you think that would have on others attempting to cross. How many people would NOT have eventually drowned? I mean, isn't it in the thousands now?

So yeah, abso-f00king-lutely ridiculous policy to send our ships there, and simple common sense will tell you that it encouraged more and more to risk their lives and die. And still does.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

pontoonz

ok i take back back the accusation of simple simon transporting the berlin truck attack driver from libya to lampadusa,

i would also like to state categorically that no, i repeat no friends of simple simon are cashing in on the refugee housing programme in ireland

edit, and if they are it's a coincidence

tomwaterford

pangbang wrote: »

The Irish navy (and others) eventually ended up as a taxi service from north Africa to Europe.

I mean put yourself in someones shoes himming and hawing about the risk of travelling across the med. Risky stuff (whether youre a terrorist or not).

One day youre slapping the arse off a camel and your mate comes running along.

"Have you heard? We don't need to get across the medditterrean, we only need to get beyond the coast! Sure its a doddle, mick!"

"I'm sold, lets go!"

Heres a harsh way to put it. Imagine an Italian ship blasted a smugglers boat to kingdom come at the get go, lets say they killed 200 people. Now what effect do you think that would have on others attempting to cross. How many people would NOT have eventually drowned? I mean, isn't it in the thousands now?

So yeah, abso-f00king-lutely ridiculous policy to send our ships there, and simple common sense will tell you that it encouraged more and more to risk their lives and die. And still does.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The preferable option to be let people drown at sea??

If they are in a position to help/not let people drown at sea,why would they not?

pangbang

tomwaterford wrote: »

The preferable option to be let people drown at sea??

If they are in a position to help/not let people drown at sea,why would they not?

This is a heart versus head problem.

You think with your heart and send the ships, masses of people end up dying.

You think with your head, its harsh, but a shed load of lives are saved.

See how that works?

pontoonz

tomwaterford wrote: »

The preferable option to be let people drown at sea??

If they are in a position to help/not let people drown at sea,why would they not?

if that german family are succesful in sueing mr coveny for transporting terrorists into germany then the bundesregierung should find mr coveny guilty of a war-crime against the federal republic of germany

Barry Badrinath

pangbang wrote: »

The Irish navy (and others) eventually ended up as a taxi service from north Africa to Europe.

I mean put yourself in someones shoes himming and hawing about the risk of travelling across the med. Risky stuff (whether youre a terrorist or not).

One day youre slapping the arse off a camel and your mate comes running along.

"Have you heard? We don't need to get across the medditterrean, we only need to get beyond the coast! Sure its a doddle, mick!"

"I'm sold, lets go!"

Heres a harsh way to put it. Imagine an Italian ship blasted a smugglers boat to kingdom come at the get go, lets say they killed 200 people. Now what effect do you think that would have on others attempting to cross. How many people would NOT have eventually drowned? I mean, isn't it in the thousands now?

So yeah, abso-f00king-lutely ridiculous policy to send our ships there, and simple common sense will tell you that it encouraged more and more to risk their lives and die. And still does.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I know all about it, no need to simplify it. The fact is, it's not a route that IS are taking.

It's actually the majority of NGO vessels who are facilitated by the "Libyan Coast Guard" who are acting as a "water taxi". Some of the NGO's are funded and are communicating with human trafficker groups in Libya.....thats the cause of the problem.

The presence of an Irish vessel isnt encouraging migration, its saving lives.

pontoonz

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I know all about it, no need to simplify it. The fact is, it's not a route that IS are taking.

It's actually the majority of NGO vessels who are facilitated by the "Libyan Coast Guard" who are acting as a "water taxi". Some of the NGO's are funded and are communicating with human trafficker groups in Libya.....thats the cause of the problem.

The presence of an Irish vessel isnt encouraging migration, its saving lives.

exactly,

you should tell that to the mother of the 11 year old deaf girl who was cut in half by a refugee truck in stockholm

Barry Badrinath

pontoonz wrote: »

ok i take back back the accusation of simple simon transporting the berlin truck attack driver from libya to lampadusa,

i would also like to state categorically that no, i repeat no friends of simple simon are cashing in on the refugee housing programme in ireland

edit, and if they are it's a coincidence

Ireland have not taken in any migrants who have landed in Italy. We have taken 300 odd who have landed in Greece from the Eastern Med route (Turkey) not Libya.

pontoonz

ebba

Hasschu

Do we meet the age old criteria for such revenge attacks. For example have we as a State captured, tortured or killed Moslems. Have we as a State supported or cheered on shooting fish in a barrel tactics by others. To be more specific have we as a State attacked any North African or Middle Eastern Moslem majority country or publicly cheered on countries that did attack those countries.
I have no idea what Ireland says at the UN, Brussels or Geneva. Pope Francis makes public statements that makes it clear that he is promoting peace and is appalled at the murderous behaviour in the Middle East and North Africa. The Irish Gov't would be well advised to adopt a similar approach. 
The chances of Ireland getting attacked by Fundamentalist Moslems are slim to nil unless the Irish Gov't provokes such behaviour. Presently I would put GB, USA and France at the top of the endangered list. I am not in a position to assess what our home grown risk is but I would hazard a guess that it is higher than the risk presented from  MENA.

SILVAMAN

Some years back when it was difficult to get broadband, I used to head to the local internet cafe to get some stuff done. I sat next to a Somali guy who was engrossed in some videos, and when he left I had a look at his history. They were Al Qaeda training videos, so over the next couple of days I watched the guy, and he spent his time watching this stuff and radical Islamic propaganda. I gave the local lads a call, was put onto the Phoenix Park, details of the cafe, computer number, and a description of the guy were taken, and I did ask the detective would they actually investigate this. He replied that this behaviour was taken very seriously, and that without question the computer would be examined.
I have no idea if it was looked into, but my gut feeling is that it was, and a couple of weeks later the Somali was gone. You can be sure that the powers that be know who is to be watched, and that they do their damnedest given the meagre resources they have to work with.

pangbang

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

I know all about it, no need to simplify it. The fact is, it's not a route that IS are taking.

It's actually the majority of NGO vessels who are facilitated by the "Libyan Coast Guard" who are acting as a "water taxi". Some of the NGO's are funded and are communicating with human trafficker groups in Libya.....thats the cause of the problem.

The presence of an Irish vessel isnt encouraging migration, its saving lives.

I disagree on two points.

Firstly, us aiding the situation, directly or not, is just encouragement and keeps the taxi service going.

Secondly, the majority of people coming from north Africa are muslim, and if they haven't been indoctrinated by isis on the far side, they'll get a second chance in the camps and islands they are being crowded into.
I mean, if youre ISIS and youre out to recruit people, where are you gonna concentrate efforts??

There isn't one part of that mess that doesn't scream "but my feelings! I must feel good!"

Know a person over at those camps, they say its a huge battle between the NGO's and nobody wants to cooperate with each other....cos they'll get more money individually, and they want to prove they have the biggest heart of all. Think of the likes on facebook, for gods sake!

Barry Badrinath

pangbang wrote: »

This is a heart versus head problem.

You think with your heart and send the ships, masses of people end up dying.

You think with your head, its harsh, but a shed load of lives are saved.

See how that works?

Not true.

Until Libya has a fully functioning Government and border security, migration will continue.

There are up to 100,000,000 migrants in various phases of migration coming through Libya whether Ireland send a vessel or not.

You are making it too simple without being cogniscent of all factors. You are blaming Ireland for migration.

Do you not see how short sighted and wrong you are?

pangbang

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Not true.

Until Libya has a fully functioning Government and border security, migration will continue.

There are up to 100,000,000 migrants in various phases of migration coming through Libya whether Ireland send a vessel or not.

You are making it too simple without being cogniscent of all factors. You are blaming Ireland for migration.

Do you not see how short sighted and wrong you are?

Not true. When we halt the facilitation of migration, migration will stop here. And Theres a geansai load of other places, far closer, that migration will drain into.

And when I'm talking about irish ships, I mean ALL European navy, of course. Concerted effort. As long as we go along with it, we encourage and sanction it.

Don't go on the short-sighted buzz man....its not a forte for pro-status quo dudes

Barry Badrinath

pangbang wrote: »

I disagree on two points.

Thats fine

[quote="pangbang;103351719"Firstly, us aiding the situation, directly or not, is just encouragement and keeps the taxi service going.[/quote]

You are not looking at the big picture at all, just focussing on a very small part and making a decision.

[quote="pangbang;103351719"Secondly, the majority of people coming from north Africa are muslim, and if they haven't been indoctrinated by isis on the far side, they'll get a second chance in the camps and islands they are being crowded into.
I mean, if youre ISIS and youre out to recruit people, where are you gonna concentrate efforts??[/quote]

Its roughly 70% Muslim/Islam, 20% Christian and 10% others.

You are assuming these people have been indoctrinated. They havent been. Even after the closure of the Balkans route, people expected a huge increase in the Central Med Route and that ISIL would turn them.....it didnt happen....then ISIL lost dominance in North Africa.

Your argument makes sense but its not happening that way.

gitzy16v

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

You *think*.

What leads you to *think* that?

Is there something wrong?
Is there a problem with me thinking Isis sympathisers have been among genuine refugees rescued by the Irish navy?

pangbang

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Thats fine



You are not looking at the big picture at all, just focussing on a very small part and making a decision.



Its roughly 70% Muslim/Islam, 20% Christian and 10% others.

You are assuming these people have been indoctrinated. They havent been. Even after the closure of the Balkans route, people expected a huge increase in the Central Med Route and that ISIL would turn them.....it didnt happen....then ISIL lost dominance in North Africa.

Your argument makes sense but its not happening that way.

I'm not specifically talking about the bigger picture in the points I made, but I most certainly am thinking of the bigger picture.

I didn't say they have categorically been indoctrinated, I inferred that the chances are very high, just from logical deduction. But you state categorically that they are not! Again, if you were isis, would it cross your mind to dig into the massive amount of people, held as a captive audience, as a good target?

As regards where isis and its combatants and converts are coming from, there isn't a person alive that can substantiate to any significant degree. The fact of the matter is that they can come from anywhere, from an internet café in rome to a slum in Ukraine. Again, logically, I would say that major departure points for mass migration into Europe is a GOOD place to indoctrinate. Damn, I wouldn't be surprised if isis are running some of the ships, in exchange for a "hand" down the line from migrants.

Barry Badrinath

pangbang wrote: »

Not true. When we halt the facilitation of migration, migration will stop here. And Theres a geansai load of other places, far closer, that migration will drain into.

And when I'm talking about irish ships, I mean ALL European navy, of course. Concerted effort. As long as we go along with it, we encourage and sanction it.

Don't go on the short-sighted buzz man....its not a forte for pro-status quo dudes

So you are trying to tell me that if EUNAVFOR Med Op Sophia was not in operation....migration through the Med would stop? :pac:

You seriously believe that? .

You know that route has been used for a looooong looooong time, yeah?

I want to take you seriously but you keep coming out with...stuff.

It's the security situation in Libya that is facilitating migration.....not the navy. I have to go, talk tomorrow.

Barry Badrinath

gitzy16v wrote: »

Is there something wrong?
Is there a problem with me thinking Isis sympathisers have been among genuine refugees rescued by the Irish navy?

Nothing wrong thinking it. You are wrong though.

killanena

I don't think the organizations such as ISIS will target us directly.

pontoonz

killanena wrote: »

I don't think the organizations such as ISIS will target us directly.

we will hold you to that statement,

and god forbid if it happens this summer then you accept partial responsibility

Mountainsandh

pangbang wrote: »

This is a heart versus head problem.

You think with your heart and send the ships, masses of people end up dying.

You think with your head, its harsh, but a shed load of lives are saved.

See how that works?

Same with closing the borders.

gitzy16v

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Ireland have not taken in any migrants who have landed in Italy. We have taken 300 odd who have landed in Greece from the Eastern Med route (Turkey) not Libya.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/14-migrants-discovered-hiding-in-truck-from-france-at-rosslare-784156.html

No idea where any of these came from....to me it looks like France,send them straight back to France and they can come back to Ireland with identification,the kind you could get in a refugee camp bordering the war torn country your coming from.(or even from France,where they left from)
Breaking all sorts of laws to get here is not acceptable.

pangbang

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

So you are trying to tell me that if EUNAVFOR Med Op Sophia was not in operation....migration through the Med would stop? :pac:

You seriously believe that? .

You know that route has been used for a looooong looooong time, yeah?

I want to take you seriously but you keep coming out with...stuff.

It's the security situation in Libya that is facilitating migration.....not the navy. I have to go, talk tomorrow.

No, I'm not saying that. But I am saying that it, in its own way, is a problem that contributes to this ongoing mess.

It would be a good idea to shut down all routes across the med. And yes, I also mean that a hundred different actions need to be taken, but I'm talking about the shipping routes specifically here.

gitzy16v

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Nothing wrong thinking it. You are wrong though.

Do explain.

pontoonz

how many anti-social elements did simon coveney and his bilderberg friends ferry into europe? (therby implicating the irish navy)

i hope the mayor of rome sues coveney and the navy and destroys enda kenny and give them the guuillotine,

for what die the sons of Rois?n?

was it greed?

The_Kew_Tour

Any links to sueing Coveney?

Please tell me it's true