Skangers and the Education system

dd972

The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe, certainly better than the English comprehensive one so what's the story with skangers/scobes/scumbags whatever you call them, is there some lower strata of duff schools that churn them out or something?

The_Valeyard

Wait until the new junior cert reforms come in full are ahead. Be gold stars for everyone and maximum points for colouring books.

Armchair Andy

The_Valeyard wrote:

Wait until the new junior cert reforms come in full are ahead. Be gold stars for everyone and maximum points for colouring books.

Seriously? Parents are gonna go full scale graffiti without their colouring books.

bodhrandude

OP they are all over the place, not just in Ireland, Neds (non-educated delinquents) in Scotland, chavs in England. Guess what? America has them too.

dd972

bodhrandude wrote: »

OP they are all over the place, not just Ireland, Neds - Scotland, can't remember what they are called in England. Guess what? America has them too.

Tends to vary in England, Gangsta in London, Scally in Liverpool. Chav's used pretty much everywhere.

The_Valeyard

bodhrandude wrote: »

OP they are all over the place, not just in Ireland, Neds (non-educated delinquents) in Scotland, chavs in England. Guess what? America has them too.

It's how the zombie pandemic starts.

reason vs religion

dd972 wrote: »

The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe..

No it's not!

Glenbhoy

reason vs religion wrote: »

No it's not!

Well it is by people in Ireland, never been clear on what basis though.
It's grand imo, but it's no Finnish system!

kylith

It's hard to educate out what's learned at home.

team_actimel

There were a fair few skangers in my school in the country and they got the same level of education as the rest of us (in primary school anyway). For some reason they didn't listen or absorb even the most basic of grammatical English.

You only have to take a look at some of their Facebook pages and the lessons of punctuation and grammar seemed to have passed them by.
"im full time mommy to 2 beautifull angles who I luv ta bits nd wud do anyting for i like to enjoy life and am a mad ting"

Noddyholder

Glenbhoy wrote: »

Well it is by people in Ireland, never been clear on what basis though.
It's grand imo, but it's no Finnish system!

:P People in Ireland have a huge egotistical, self-absorbed Image of themselves & think the World knows all about us, We are famous for Drinking & the IRA ,

that's it folks.:D:)

DontThankMe

dd972 wrote: »

The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe, certainly better than the English comprehensive one so what's the story with skangers/scobes/scumbags whatever you call them, is there some lower strata of duff schools that churn them out or something?

The skangers/scobes/scumbags are born into a family of the same type of people and just like their mammy and daddy they don't put any effort into their schoolwork because they know they will just end up living off the state like mammy and daddy while there are some exceptions to this the vast majority follow in their parents footsteps.

mojesius

DontThankMe wrote: »

The skangers/scobes/scumbags are born into a family of the same type of people and just like their mammy and daddy they don't put any effort into their schoolwork because they know they will just end up living off the state like mammy and daddy while there are some exceptions to this the vast majority follow in their parents footsteps.

Don't forget the two fortnight holidays a year to torremolinos and Disney world plastered all over Facebook publicly while requesting/demanding support from charitable services for Nakita's school costs.

kylith

kylith wrote: »

It's hard to educate out what's learned at home.

I'd imagine teachers could predict with a fairly high degree of accuracy what a kid's educational avhievements will be like from meeting the parents.

maxwell smart

team_actimel wrote: »

There were a fair few skangers in my school in the country and they got the same level of education as the rest of us (in primary school anyway). For some reason they didn't listen or absorb even the most basic of grammatical English.

You only have to take a look at some of their Facebook pages and the lessons of punctuation and grammar seemed to have passed them by.
"im full time mommy to 2 beautifull angles who I luv ta bits nd wud do anyting for i like to enjoy life and am a mad ting"

Angles indeed. An all an anyways

Wanderer78

unfortunately our educational system isn great with dealing with complex problems such as mental health issues, complex behavioural problems, learning disabilities and personality disorders etc etc. people who have these issues are very likely to struggle in our educational system, some failing very badly and even leaving the system at an early stage. our system can in fact exacerbate these issues in some

biko

dd972 wrote: »

The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe?

reason vs religion wrote: »

No it's not!

Two opinions/statements, no sources.
The education system has indeed failed.

HigginsJ

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately our educational system isn great with dealing with complex problems such as mental health issues, complex behavioural problems, learning disabilities and personality disorders etc etc. people who have these issues are very likely to struggle in our educational system, some failing very badly and even leaving the system at an early stage. our system can in fact exacerbate these issues in some

I don't think anyone would argue with you on this one but I think this is more about a certain demographic and the high propensity for them to not fully engage with the educational system.

I would love to see how many of these children are given an out in that they are suffering from "ADHD". I'm sure there are legitimate cases of those who suffer from this but it is something that is being bandied about willy nilly to excuse unacceptable behaviour.

TheQuietFella

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately our educational system isn great with dealing with complex problems such as mental health issues, complex behavioural problems, learning disabilities and personality disorders etc etc. people who have these issues are very likely to struggle in our educational system, some failing very badly and even leaving the system at an early stage. our system can in fact exacerbate these issues in some

What are you looking for here '78?
Do you think that they should all these children with various social issues should be incorporated into the one class? I personally believe that Teachers have enough 'social issues' to deal with rather then adding to it!

Everlong1

Noddyholder wrote: »

:P People in Ireland have a huge egotistical, self-absorbed Image of themselves & think the World knows all about us, We are famous for Drinking & the IRA ,

that's it folks.:D:)

You forgot U2. I've met quite a few U2 fans who literally couldn't find Ireland on a map before they heard a U2 song. Oh, and Liam Neeson, Pierce Brosnan, and Cillian Murphy have been heard of by a few people outside Ireland.

Partially agree with you on the self absorbed image thing though.

andekwarhola

dd972 wrote: »

The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe

reason vs religion wrote: »

No it's not!

biko wrote: »

The education system has indeed failed.

Three opinions, no sources. :pac:

kunst nugget

andekwarhola wrote: »

Three opinions, no sources. :pac:

The third opinion was based on the first two posters inability to provide sources to back up their claims and so didn't need any sources.

Here is a Journal.ie fact check in relation to Ireland's educational prowess. Turns out we're distinctly average...

http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-european-education-rankings-facts-eoghan-murphy-cnbc-2992092-Sep2016/

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

team_actimel wrote: »

You only have to take a look at some of their Facebook pages and the lessons of punctuation and grammar seemed to have passed them by.
"im full time mommy to 2 beautifull angles who I luv ta bits nd wud do anyting for i like to enjoy life and am a mad ting"

"Works at Being a Full Time Mad Bastard"

andekwarhola wrote: »

Three opinions, no sources. :pac:

Here's one to get us started;

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/11-best-school-systems-in-the-world-a7425391.html

Everlong1

DontThankMe wrote: »

The skangers/scobes/scumbags are born into a family of the same type of people and just like their mammy and daddy they don't put any effort into their schoolwork because they know they will just end up living off the state like mammy and daddy while there are some exceptions to this the vast majority follow in their parents footsteps.

Spot on. This will continue unless we start demanding an end to the welfare entitlement culture and elect politicians and parties who are prepared to tackle same. I was very encouraged by Leo Varadkar's recent comments on this. Anyone wanting to see an end to the welfare lifestyle option should think about supporting Fine Gael and encouraging them along this road. Fianna Fail of course have destroyed Ireland twice - the first time was in the late 70's/ early 80's - and will destroy the country again by throwing money at everyone on welfare to buy votes if they slither into power again.

CoolHandBandit

Feel sorry for many of these kids tbh. You are a product of your environment most of the time. We live in a mixed social, affordable and private estate and it's very obvious the kids who aren't going to do well in life as they are out running around the streets causing trouble at all hours even on school nights. Often the parents drink, smoke or take drugs and when approached about their kids behaviour you are told to mind your own business or just plain fcuk off.

I'm afraid most of these kids live in social housing units also but that's not to say all from social housing are like that the majority are actually great families who just work and get on with life whilst raising not dragging their kids up. Unfortunately all the kids in the classroom suffer as these type of children haven't been thought how to behave in a respectful manner at home so carry that into the class.

As for a solution iv'e no idea but iv'e heard the dock parents social welfare if their kids don't attend and behave in school argument before and that may be what's needed to partly solve the issue.

Wanderer78

HigginsJ wrote: »

I don't think anyone would argue with you on this one but I think this is more about a certain demographic and the high propensity for them to not fully engage with the educational system.

I would love to see how many of these children are given an out in that they are suffering from "ADHD". I'm sure there are legitimate cases of those who suffer from this but it is something that is being bandied about willy nilly to excuse unacceptable behaviour.

adhd would be a very common issue but various forms of autism would also be common, these are very complex issues and very difficult to deal with. our one size fits all system truly leaves people with these issues vulnerable and exposed in the system

TheQuietFella wrote: »

What are you looking for here '78?
Do you think that they should all these children with various social issues should be incorporated into the one class? I personally believe that Teachers have enough 'social issues' to deal with rather then adding to it!

this is great point, i truly feel sorry for teachers in these situations, people with these types of issues require a lot of attention and probably completely different teaching methods. i have a lot of respect for teachers in general but particularly for those that have to work in environments with a high percentage of problematic students, its must be very stressful

andekwarhola

kunst nugget wrote: »

The third opinion was based on the first two posters inability to provide sources to back up their claims and so didn't need any sources.

Thanks for providing that blinding shaft of illumination.

kunst nugget

andekwarhola wrote: »

Thanks for providing that blinding shaft of illumination.

I'm always on hand to help out those with special needs.

andekwarhola

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'm always on hand to help out those with special needs.

Self-help is always admirable.

Richard Hillman

When skangers leave their natural environment they feel very very uncomfortable and inadequate. So they revert back to their comfort zone of low expectations, an environment that they are comfortable in.

Same applies with Irish Travellers and African Americans from rough neighbourhoods in America. Take them out of their environment and they fall apart with insecurity.

There was a piece somewhere a while ago about how the Barrytown Series gave confidence to a lot of Dublin people about how they spoke and behaved. Personally I think the Barrytown Series was one of the worst things ever to happen to Dublin. Social Promotion isn't something that needs to be thought about. Staying in the council estate for life is ok.

Ave Sodalis

CoolHandBandit wrote:

As for a solution iv'e no idea but iv'e heard the dock parents social welfare if their kids don't attend and behave in school argument before and that may be what's needed to partly solve the issue.

Even if it isn't the parent's fault? What if the parents aren't on social welfare? Is it only the parents on social that have disruptive kids that can be punished, or is it only parents on social that have distruptive kids? Is it if all their kids are distruptive? I mean if they have two well behaved kids and one not, is it still docked?

What is going to partly solve the problem is people not making silly kneejerk calls like that, and actually figuring out and addressing the root of the problems. Alas, this is AH so dole cuts for all, common sense for none!

HigginsJ

Wanderer78 wrote: »

adhd would be a very common issue but various forms of autism would also be common, these are very complex issues and very difficult to deal with. our one size fits all system truly leaves people with these issues vulnerable and exposed in the system

Again, in no way would I disagree with you. To my view alot more people are being diagnosed with ADHD in particular to account for other things and this makes it genuinely difficult to help those who may actually need it.

This is not the kids fault in any way, it suits the parents down to the ground to a large degree and the kids will surely just pick up on this from their parents.

Neon_Lights

Them skangers are mad for their add or ADHD and live on handouts. You feel fantastic though ten years on when you see them struggling, generally with a significant number of sprogs a drug habit and still on the dole. And you think to yourself what a tool.

Wanderer78

HigginsJ wrote: »

Again, in no way would I disagree with you. To my view alot more people are being diagnosed with ADHD in particular to account for other things and this makes it genuinely difficult to help those who may actually need it.

This is not the kids fault in any way, it suits the parents down to the ground to a large degree and the kids will surely just pick up on this from their parents.

its a fair point i guess, but in many cases, you ll find that the parents to also have similar complex issues and are possibly undiagnosed.

Samuel T. Cogley

A system that teaches blind religion and doesn't teach philosophy; one of the best in Europe. Well done OP, needed a giggle.

The education system or certainly that age is where the investment should be in breaking the cycle of depravation and 'scumbagery' by the time we're putting them up at casa Mount Joy at €76,000 a year it's too late, but schools can't be expected to raise children.

reason vs religion

biko wrote: »

Two opinions/statements, no sources.
The education system has indeed failed.

A claim that the sun is a giant marshmallow hardly requires a scientific counter argument.

The number of thanks mine received indicates many believe the initial claim to be self-evidently false. And, for effect, my was purposely condensed, mirroring the OP's.

kunst nugget wrote: »

Here is a Journal.ie fact check in relation to Ireland's educational prowess. Turns out we're distinctly average..

http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-european-education-rankings-facts-eoghan-murphy-cnbc-2992092-Sep2016/

Ostensibly this actually supports the OP's claim. His was in relation to pre-tertiary education, and this says that Ireland's teens perform near the top in the EU. However, and it's a subtle point, high performance does not necessarily imply a superior education system. PISA results are effectively a proxy for social equality - one reason Finland does so well. If you drill down, you actually see that Ireland's top tier of students underperforms compared with the three or four countries ranked below it, which implies our education system is pretty mediocre but that we're fortunate that we have relatively few in poverty, meaning the bottom tier of students scores relatively highly.

Parchment

I dont see how the Irish education system can be one of the best in the world - it encourages rote learning for success in the Leaving Cert.

I studied in an Irish university then onto a Scottish one - my mind was blown by the difference in learning styles. In Ireland you are coaxed along whereas in Scotland you are very much on your own and need to be an independent learner - the total opposite to the "great" Irish system.

SEPT 23 1989

Wanderer78 wrote: »

unfortunately our educational system isn great with dealing with complex problems such as mental health issues, complex behavioural problems, learning disabilities and personality disorders etc etc. people who have these issues are very likely to struggle in our educational system, some failing very badly and even leaving the system at an early stage. our system can in fact exacerbate these issues in some

they eventually get back into the system,The Prison system

things are changing but very slowly

we will look back with horror in 50 years time at how badly kids were treated by the state trying to get basic help to improve their lves

kunst nugget

Parchment wrote: »

I dont see how the Irish education system can be one of the best in the world - it encourages rote learning for success in the Leaving Cert.

I studied in an Irish university then onto a Scottish one - my mind was blown by the difference in learning styles. In Ireland you are coaxed along whereas in Scotland you are very much on your own and need to be an independent learner - the total opposite to the "great" Irish system.

I don't know if you can necessarily base the entire university systems of two countries on the individual courses you did.

Wanderer78

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

they eventually get back into the system,The Prison system

things are changing but very slowly

we will look back in horror in 50 years time at how badly kids were treated by the state trying to get basic help to improve their lves

completely agree with you here, we have a very reactionary system whereby we need to become proactive. im amazed many dont see the relationship between all these issues, ive been informed theres plenty of peer reviewed work available on these matters but i havent had the chance to look yet. i was recently told by an experienced special needs assistant that a study was done in a scottish prison some time ago and found that 60% of the prison population had dyslexia! id imagine if you looked further, you d find the same or similar complex issues that we have been discussing.

valoren

The idiom 'you can drag a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it' is apt for that question.
Some people for whatever reason, be it indifference, boredom, frustration, learning disability, will never be interested in education.

I define education as reading comprehension, writing correctly with regards to grammar and fundamental arithmetic ability. You get all that in Primary. You can complete Primary school without becoming educated.

Secondary school is the application of those skills to specific defined subjects with the three R's refined and mastered at an advanced level with the difference being that your progress is tested through examinations. Examinations are not liked it seems by the skangers among us.

For skangers, anything beyond a primary level of education or understanding simply holds little weight in their social circles. Should a skanger find themselves using correct english on facebook comments for example, they would be vilified, singled out, isolated for using 'dem big wurds'. It's almost a form of compliance I guess.

Parchment

kunst nugget wrote: »

I don't know if you can necessarily base the entire university systems of two countries on the individual courses you did.

I saw the way the Irish student (there were 35 students on the course, 8 were Irish) floundered with the Scottish style of "do it yourself". Obviously they coped but the Scottish student were far better versed in doing it themselves.

kunst nugget

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i was recently told by an experienced special needs assistant that a study was done in a scottish prison some time ago and found that 60% of the prison population had dyslexia!

What was worse is they thought they it was going to be sex daily.

kunst nugget

Parchment wrote: »

I saw the way the Irish student (there were 35 students on the course, 8 were Irish) floundered with the Scottish style of "do it yourself". Obviously they coped but the Scottish student were far better versed in doing it themselves.

The course I did here, albeit in a slightly specialised subject, was one where you were left to your own devices and it was up to you to determine what your project work and research was going to entail.

Admittedly, less than half the original group of students were left by the end of the course.

Tayschren

The sheer idiocy of this thread is astounding, firstly if you were educated in the Irish system then the abiltiy to see how bad it was in your mind is in fact a positive that you didn't realise but then again not realising shows how badly educated you were in the first place leading to the fact that it must be a really top notch system if it got you to the point where you dont know what you really know because your too smart to know your stupid.

DrumSteve

I hate these threads.

team_actimel

Tayschren wrote: »

The sheer idiocy of this thread is astounding, firstly if you were educated in the Irish system then the abiltiy to see how bad it was in your mind is in fact a positive that you didn't realise but then again not realising shows how badly educated you were in the first place leading to the fact that it must be a really top notch system if it got you to the point where you dont know what you really know because your too smart to know your stupid.

Reading that hurt my brain.
*You're too smart to know you're stupid.

kunst nugget

DrumSteve wrote: »

I hate these threads.

Ah, now. I think your clothes aren't that bad. They bring out the pink in your eyes.

lawred2

bodhrandude wrote: »

OP they are all over the place, not just in Ireland, Neds (non-educated delinquents) in Scotland, chavs in England. Guess what? America has them too.

lol - never knew that's what that meant..

wifey is Scottish and herself and her family use it all the time - must check whether they knew the origins

lawred2

team_actimel wrote: »

There were a fair few skangers in my school in the country and they got the same level of education as the rest of us (in primary school anyway). For some reason they didn't listen or absorb even the most basic of grammatical English.

You only have to take a look at some of their Facebook pages and the lessons of punctuation and grammar seemed to have passed them by.
"im full time mommy to 2 beautifull angles who I luv ta bits nd wud do anyting for i like to enjoy life and am a mad ting"

because they are by and large a sub breed

Samuel T. Cogley

An excellent education system would IMHO:

- Teach ALL religions and spend about 30 minutes a week on it
- Teach Philosophy and spend at least 2 hours a week on it
- Offer Latin as an alternative in the 'Dead Languages department'
- Offer vocational training as an alternative to full-time formal academic education, leading to trades including IT.
- A starting salary for teachers at the median average wage only increase from there but be performance related
- Have huge amounts of ancillary services to deal with children with issues, including interaction with social services

And plenty of others.