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Skangers and the Education system

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  • 13-04-2017 1:12am
    #1
    dd972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭


    The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe, certainly better than the English comprehensive one so what's the story with skangers/scobes/scumbags whatever you call them, is there some lower strata of duff schools that churn them out or something?


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    #2
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Wait until the new junior cert reforms come in full are ahead. Be gold stars for everyone and maximum points for colouring books.


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    #3
    Armchair Andy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Armchair Andy


    The_Valeyard wrote:
    Wait until the new junior cert reforms come in full are ahead. Be gold stars for everyone and maximum points for colouring books.


    Seriously? Parents are gonna go full scale graffiti without their colouring books.


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    #4
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users Posts: 12,423 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    OP they are all over the place, not just in Ireland, Neds (non-educated delinquents) in Scotland, chavs in England. Guess what? America has them too.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



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    #5
    dd972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭dd972


    bodhrandude wrote: »
    OP they are all over the place, not just Ireland, Neds - Scotland, can't remember what they are called in England. Guess what? America has them too.

    Tends to vary in England, Gangsta in London, Scally in Liverpool. Chav's used pretty much everywhere.


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    #6
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    bodhrandude wrote: »
    OP they are all over the place, not just in Ireland, Neds (non-educated delinquents) in Scotland, chavs in England. Guess what? America has them too.

    It's how the zombie pandemic starts.


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    #7
    reason vs religion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 346 ✭✭reason vs religion


    dd972 wrote: »
    The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe..

    No it's not!


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    #8
    Glenbhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭Glenbhoy


    reason vs religion wrote: »
    No it's not!

    Well it is by people in Ireland, never been clear on what basis though.
    It's grand imo, but it's no Finnish system!


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    #9
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    It's hard to educate out what's learned at home.


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    #10
    team_actimel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 785 ✭✭✭team_actimel


    There were a fair few skangers in my school in the country and they got the same level of education as the rest of us (in primary school anyway). For some reason they didn't listen or absorb even the most basic of grammatical English.

    You only have to take a look at some of their Facebook pages and the lessons of punctuation and grammar seemed to have passed them by.
    "im full time mommy to 2 beautifull angles who I luv ta bits nd wud do anyting for i like to enjoy life and am a mad ting"


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    #11
    Noddyholder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Noddyholder


    Glenbhoy wrote: »
    Well it is by people in Ireland, never been clear on what basis though.
    It's grand imo, but it's no Finnish system!


    :D:P People in Ireland have a huge egotistical, self-absorbed Image of themselves & think the World knows all about us, We are famous for Drinking & the IRA ,

    that's it folks.:D:)


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    #12
    DontThankMe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    dd972 wrote: »
    The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe, certainly better than the English comprehensive one so what's the story with skangers/scobes/scumbags whatever you call them, is there some lower strata of duff schools that churn them out or something?

    The skangers/scobes/scumbags are born into a family of the same type of people and just like their mammy and daddy they don't put any effort into their schoolwork because they know they will just end up living off the state like mammy and daddy while there are some exceptions to this the vast majority follow in their parents footsteps.


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    #13
    mojesius
    Registered Users Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭mojesius


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    The skangers/scobes/scumbags are born into a family of the same type of people and just like their mammy and daddy they don't put any effort into their schoolwork because they know they will just end up living off the state like mammy and daddy while there are some exceptions to this the vast majority follow in their parents footsteps.


    Don't forget the two fortnight holidays a year to torremolinos and Disney world plastered all over Facebook publicly while requesting/demanding support from charitable services for Nakita's school costs.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kylith wrote: »
    It's hard to educate out what's learned at home.
    I'd imagine teachers could predict with a fairly high degree of accuracy what a kid's educational avhievements will be like from meeting the parents.


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    #15
    maxwell smart
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭maxwell smart


    team_actimel wrote: »
    There were a fair few skangers in my school in the country and they got the same level of education as the rest of us (in primary school anyway). For some reason they didn't listen or absorb even the most basic of grammatical English.

    You only have to take a look at some of their Facebook pages and the lessons of punctuation and grammar seemed to have passed them by.
    "im full time mommy to 2 beautifull angles who I luv ta bits nd wud do anyting for i like to enjoy life and am a mad ting"

    Angles indeed. An all an anyways


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    #16
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,925 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    unfortunately our educational system isn great with dealing with complex problems such as mental health issues, complex behavioural problems, learning disabilities and personality disorders etc etc. people who have these issues are very likely to struggle in our educational system, some failing very badly and even leaving the system at an early stage. our system can in fact exacerbate these issues in some


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    #17
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    dd972 wrote: »
    The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe?
    reason vs religion wrote: »
    No it's not!
    Two opinions/statements, no sources.
    The education system has indeed failed.


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    #18
    HigginsJ
    Registered Users Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    unfortunately our educational system isn great with dealing with complex problems such as mental health issues, complex behavioural problems, learning disabilities and personality disorders etc etc. people who have these issues are very likely to struggle in our educational system, some failing very badly and even leaving the system at an early stage. our system can in fact exacerbate these issues in some

    I don't think anyone would argue with you on this one but I think this is more about a certain demographic and the high propensity for them to not fully engage with the educational system.

    I would love to see how many of these children are given an out in that they are suffering from "ADHD". I'm sure there are legitimate cases of those who suffer from this but it is something that is being bandied about willy nilly to excuse unacceptable behaviour.


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    #19
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    unfortunately our educational system isn great with dealing with complex problems such as mental health issues, complex behavioural problems, learning disabilities and personality disorders etc etc. people who have these issues are very likely to struggle in our educational system, some failing very badly and even leaving the system at an early stage. our system can in fact exacerbate these issues in some

    What are you looking for here '78?
    Do you think that they should all these children with various social issues should be incorporated into the one class? I personally believe that Teachers have enough 'social issues' to deal with rather then adding to it!


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    #20
    Everlong1
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    Noddyholder wrote: »
    :D:P People in Ireland have a huge egotistical, self-absorbed Image of themselves & think the World knows all about us, We are famous for Drinking & the IRA ,

    that's it folks.:D:)

    You forgot U2. :D I've met quite a few U2 fans who literally couldn't find Ireland on a map before they heard a U2 song. Oh, and Liam Neeson, Pierce Brosnan, and Cillian Murphy have been heard of by a few people outside Ireland.

    Partially agree with you on the self absorbed image thing though.


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    #21
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    dd972 wrote: »
    The Irish education system is widely acknowledged as one of the best in Europe
    reason vs religion wrote: »
    No it's not!
    biko wrote: »
    The education system has indeed failed.

    Three opinions, no sources. :pac:


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    #22
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    Three opinions, no sources. :pac:

    The third opinion was based on the first two posters inability to provide sources to back up their claims and so didn't need any sources.

    Here is a Journal.ie fact check in relation to Ireland's educational prowess. Turns out we're distinctly average...

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-european-education-rankings-facts-eoghan-murphy-cnbc-2992092-Sep2016/


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    #23
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    team_actimel wrote: »
    You only have to take a look at some of their Facebook pages and the lessons of punctuation and grammar seemed to have passed them by.
    "im full time mommy to 2 beautifull angles who I luv ta bits nd wud do anyting for i like to enjoy life and am a mad ting"

    "Works at Being a Full Time Mad Bastard"
    andekwarhola wrote: »
    Three opinions, no sources. :pac:

    Here's one to get us started;

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/11-best-school-systems-in-the-world-a7425391.html


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    #24
    Everlong1
    Registered Users Posts: 884 ✭✭✭Everlong1


    DontThankMe wrote: »
    The skangers/scobes/scumbags are born into a family of the same type of people and just like their mammy and daddy they don't put any effort into their schoolwork because they know they will just end up living off the state like mammy and daddy while there are some exceptions to this the vast majority follow in their parents footsteps.

    Spot on. This will continue unless we start demanding an end to the welfare entitlement culture and elect politicians and parties who are prepared to tackle same. I was very encouraged by Leo Varadkar's recent comments on this. Anyone wanting to see an end to the welfare lifestyle option should think about supporting Fine Gael and encouraging them along this road. Fianna Fail of course have destroyed Ireland twice - the first time was in the late 70's/ early 80's - and will destroy the country again by throwing money at everyone on welfare to buy votes if they slither into power again.


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    #25
    CoolHandBandit
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 263 ✭✭CoolHandBandit


    Feel sorry for many of these kids tbh. You are a product of your environment most of the time. We live in a mixed social, affordable and private estate and it's very obvious the kids who aren't going to do well in life as they are out running around the streets causing trouble at all hours even on school nights. Often the parents drink, smoke or take drugs and when approached about their kids behaviour you are told to mind your own business or just plain fcuk off.

    I'm afraid most of these kids live in social housing units also but that's not to say all from social housing are like that the majority are actually great families who just work and get on with life whilst raising not dragging their kids up. Unfortunately all the kids in the classroom suffer as these type of children haven't been thought how to behave in a respectful manner at home so carry that into the class.

    As for a solution iv'e no idea but iv'e heard the dock parents social welfare if their kids don't attend and behave in school argument before and that may be what's needed to partly solve the issue.


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    #26
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,925 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    HigginsJ wrote: »
    I don't think anyone would argue with you on this one but I think this is more about a certain demographic and the high propensity for them to not fully engage with the educational system.

    I would love to see how many of these children are given an out in that they are suffering from "ADHD". I'm sure there are legitimate cases of those who suffer from this but it is something that is being bandied about willy nilly to excuse unacceptable behaviour.

    adhd would be a very common issue but various forms of autism would also be common, these are very complex issues and very difficult to deal with. our one size fits all system truly leaves people with these issues vulnerable and exposed in the system
    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    What are you looking for here '78?
    Do you think that they should all these children with various social issues should be incorporated into the one class? I personally believe that Teachers have enough 'social issues' to deal with rather then adding to it!

    this is great point, i truly feel sorry for teachers in these situations, people with these types of issues require a lot of attention and probably completely different teaching methods. i have a lot of respect for teachers in general but particularly for those that have to work in environments with a high percentage of problematic students, its must be very stressful


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    #27
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    The third opinion was based on the first two posters inability to provide sources to back up their claims and so didn't need any sources.

    Thanks for providing that blinding shaft of illumination.


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    #28
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    Thanks for providing that blinding shaft of illumination.

    I'm always on hand to help out those with special needs.


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    #29
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    I'm always on hand to help out those with special needs.

    Self-help is always admirable.


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    #30
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    When skangers leave their natural environment they feel very very uncomfortable and inadequate. So they revert back to their comfort zone of low expectations, an environment that they are comfortable in.

    Same applies with Irish Travellers and African Americans from rough neighbourhoods in America. Take them out of their environment and they fall apart with insecurity.

    There was a piece somewhere a while ago about how the Barrytown Series gave confidence to a lot of Dublin people about how they spoke and behaved. Personally I think the Barrytown Series was one of the worst things ever to happen to Dublin. Social Promotion isn't something that needs to be thought about. Staying in the council estate for life is ok.


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    #31
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    CoolHandBandit wrote:
    As for a solution iv'e no idea but iv'e heard the dock parents social welfare if their kids don't attend and behave in school argument before and that may be what's needed to partly solve the issue.

    Even if it isn't the parent's fault? What if the parents aren't on social welfare? Is it only the parents on social that have disruptive kids that can be punished, or is it only parents on social that have distruptive kids? Is it if all their kids are distruptive? I mean if they have two well behaved kids and one not, is it still docked?

    What is going to partly solve the problem is people not making silly kneejerk calls like that, and actually figuring out and addressing the root of the problems. Alas, this is AH so dole cuts for all, common sense for none!


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