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Luas - Lucan Line

  • 05-04-2017 7:54pm
    #1
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    TII mentioned during an Oireachtas Committee meeting recently that work on a Luas line to Lucan will begin planning in 2017.

    Starting from scratch.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2017-03-22a.9
    Tagged:


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    marno21 wrote: »
    TII mentioned during an Oireachtas Committee meeting recently that work on a Luas line to Lucan will begin planning in 2017.

    Starting from scratch.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2017-03-22a.9

    Disaster. Means a cut in buses and a tram that goes half way around the world.

    Then again if it's like the swimming pool promise, we might see it in 40 years


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,539 ✭✭✭✭ Grandeeod


    No shock here either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,705 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    I haven't opened it. So I'm guessing it mentions an alignment that goes through Ballyfermot and then swings south to the Naas Road for no real reason?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,705 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    Dara Calleary complaining we are "building fewer kms of road in 2025 than we are now and we are building less than we were in 2008/09". Good Jesus, just pave the country already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,816 ✭✭✭ donvito99


    Dara Calleary complaining we are "building fewer kms of road in 2025 than we are now and we are building less than we were in 2008/09". Good Jesus, just pave the country already.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    MOD:

    Luas Lucan please lads. There's a thread on capital spending on roads in the Roads forum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,347 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    I believe this was the original potential route for Line F as it was known:

    4505993468_832dbe21a2_o.jpg

    Personally, I'm glad this never went ahead, and I hope the presence of a completed Broombridge line changes their plans. Main problem I'd have with it is that it barely expands the PT coverage of the city, and doesn't even provide its own Park and Ride facility.

    That said, I suppose the presence of the valley around the Liffey restricts possible alternative routes without expensive bridges.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    The bit of the old plan I wanted to see most was the city centre bit - would actually give some idea of a tram network again. Ballyfermot spur of the existing Red line might also work standalone but the full route was going to be too slow to be useful for end to end trips.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Bit of a mad route, I'd be more inclined to use the Lucan QBC


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,744 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    L1011 wrote: »
    The bit of the old plan I wanted to see most was the city centre bit - would actually give some idea of a tram network again. Ballyfermot spur of the existing Red line might also work standalone but the full route was going to be too slow to be useful for end to end trips.

    I cannot see that section on-street between Fatima and Trinity happening. It would cause traffic mayhem.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭ dazberry


    lxflyer wrote:
    I cannot see that section on-street between Fatima and Trinity happening. It would cause traffic mayhem.

    There was a provision in the cross city luas plans for a set of points to connect to this line at college green. It's very telling that these have been omitted during construction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭ fionnsci


    What will this line contribute then if the city centre portion is unlikely and the Lucan part is a strange route? Is it in essence a new spur off the Red line? Or is there a sensible redesign that would be more beneficial?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,705 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    The section of the line as far as Liffey Valley serves an area not currently serviced by any buses (bar the infrequent 239 which goes from LV to Blanch). So in that sense it's a relatively good choice.

    From an interchange pov It should probably begin at Adamstown Railway station and then head down the Newcastle Road.

    Linking with the Red Line is a good idea. But the manner in which it is happening (ie. down the Kylemore Road to Bluebell) makes a mockery of the route to the city).

    It would be better if it continued on straight, down the Con Colbert/John's Road and connected with the Red line at Heuston.

    A much better idea would then to subsequently extend the the Red Line with a Spur from James' Street down to Trinity/SSG or that general direction anyway say James' St, Thomas St, H=igh St, Nicholas St, Patrick St, Kevin St, Cuffe St SSSG. This would give the added bonus of a Green Line connection without the chaos of digging up Lord Edward/Dame/College Green. Again. As well as opening up another area in the city for possible future expansion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f


    It's very hard to see how it makes any sense to build a new tram line parallel to, and at a maximum 2.3 km from, what is planned to be a high-capacity, 4-track rapid railway line into the heart of the city.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,705 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation


    It's very hard to see how it makes any sense to build a new tram line parallel to, and at a maximum 2.3 km from, what is planned to be a high-capacity, 4-track rapid railway line into the heart of the city.

    It's also hard to see why after 7 years that Kishoge station isn't open in West Dublin but ya know...

    There's no point having a railway if you don't have stations open and you don't run trains on it. This is why we needed Dart Underground which you're more than familiar about.

    Nothing in Ireland related to transport makes sense.

    Don't forget these are the people that want to run Metro North onto the Green line, essentially replicating a service we have already going south.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I believe this was the original potential route for Line F as it was known:

    4505993468_832dbe21a2_o.jpg

    Personally, I'm glad this never went ahead, and I hope the presence of a completed Broombridge line changes their plans. Main problem I'd have with it is that it barely expands the PT coverage of the city, and doesn't even provide its own Park and Ride facility.

    That said, I suppose the presence of the valley around the Liffey restricts possible alternative routes without expensive bridges.


    Some rough areas on that route, I stick to the bus, thank you


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,347 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    Some rough areas on that route, I stick to the bus, thank you

    Okay...

    Anyway, I've come to the layman's opinion that Broombridge could be used as a new hub for Luas/Metro lines running out as far as Maynooth or Ashbourne, without having to construct any additional city center infrastructure (or indeed in any built up area).


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭ fionnsci


    Some rough areas on that route, I stick to the bus, thank you

    Heaven forbid we encourage investment in "rough areas" and connect them to major employment hubs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    fionnsci wrote: »
    Heaven forbid we encourage investment in "rough areas" and connect them to major employment hubs.

    Yeah we tried that investment in boomsbridge, ask irish rail about the trouble since.


    We don't want another red line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,347 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    Yeah we tried that investment in boomsbridge, ask irish rail about the trouble since.


    We don't want another red line.

    What investment was tried in Broombridge exactly? This is just silly, and you shouldn't say "we" when you hold a minority opinion.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭ wakka12


    Why have Line F running parallel with the existing red line for so many stops when there are so many areas just directly south such as Terenure, Harolds cross, Drimnagh, Kimmage with no tram infrastructure anywhere near them


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭ wakka12


    It just makes me sad looking at plans like this because even with multiple theoretical proposed lines that will inevitably take decades to build *if* they even go ahead, and billions of euro later and then still large swathes of the city are poorly serviced by tram/metro


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,744 ✭✭✭✭ LXFlyer


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Why have Line F running parallel with the existing red line for so many stops when there are so many areas just directly south such as Terenure, Harolds cross, Drimnagh, Kimmage with no tram infrastructure anywhere near them

    None of those areas are suitable for on-street rail infrastructure - the road space simply isn't there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner


    MJohnston wrote: »
    What investment was tried in Broombridge exactly? This is just silly, and you shouldn't say "we" when you hold a minority opinion.

    Irish rail built a train station there. It gets attack most days, train windows smashed etc.

    How do you know it's a minority opinion? Did you ask everyone?

    Maybe ask people their opinion about the red line especially the ones that were assaulted on it or experience the drugs and alcohol issues on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,347 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    Irish rail built a train station there. It gets attack most days, train windows smashed etc.

    How do you know it's a minority opinion? Did you ask everyone?

    Maybe ask people their opinion about the red line especially the ones that were assaulted on it or experience the drugs and alcohol issues on it.

    Ah, so a railway stop built with minimal facilities nearly 30 years ago is your datapoint for why Broombridge and similar areas deserve no investment? No, look, that's not investment at all, investment is a process involving more than just a cursory railway platform and a couple of shelters.

    It's about redeveloping the surrounding, mostly abandoned industrial area by stimulating commercial and residential construction, in a manner similar to how formerly dismal areas like the Docklands or Sandyford were completely rejuvenated. We need to create a SDZ in this area and truly invest in it. We've seen the start of this just a km up the tracks in Royal Canal Park and Ashtown.

    You can keep your stories of constant vandalism, I've lived in and around this area for several years now, used the commuter rail services all the time, and things have changed greatly in the last ten years. I've also used the Red Line constantly and your stories there are just complete exaggerations.

    And the Green Line extension to Broombridge is built, that's the proof that a majority wanted it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭ wakka12


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Ah, so a railway stop built with minimal facilities nearly 30 years ago is your datapoint for why Broombridge and similar areas deserve no investment? No, look, that's not investment at all, investment is a process involving more than just a cursory railway platform and a couple of shelters.

    It's about redeveloping the surrounding, mostly abandoned industrial area by stimulating commercial and residential construction, in a manner similar to how formerly dismal areas like the Docklands or Sandyford were completely rejuvenated. We need to create a SDZ in this area and truly invest in it. We've seen the start of this just a km up the tracks in Royal Canal Park and Ashtown.

    You can keep your stories of constant vandalism, I've lived in and around this area for several years now, used the commuter rail services all the time, and things have changed greatly in the last ten years. I've also used the Red Line constantly and your stories there are just complete exaggerations.

    And the Green Line extension to Broombridge is built, that's the proof that a majority wanted it.

    Does that always mean the majority wanted it? The government might choose a tram route/stop because of economic reasons, efficiency reasons or many other reasons other than simply the majority of the public wanting a stop to be built there


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Why have Line F running parallel with the existing red line for so many stops when there are so many areas just directly south such as Terenure, Harolds cross, Drimnagh, Kimmage with no tram infrastructure anywhere near them

    Because none of them are on the way to Lucan.
    Irish rail built a train station there. It gets attack most days, train windows smashed etc.

    Not for ten+ years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,347 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Does that always mean the majority wanted it? The government might choose a tram route/stop because of economic reasons, efficiency reasons or many other reasons other than simply the majority of the public wanting a stop to be built there

    You raise a good point - who cares if a majority want it or don't? That's supposed to be the point of government, they should make decisions on our behalf because we aren't generally aware of all the facts for any given situation. For example, is anyone outside the catchment area of the Broombridge Luas extension going to want money spent on it? I'm sure it becomes decreasingly likely the further you get from benefitting from it, but then the exact same thing applies to any infrastructure project.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭ hmmm


    Lucan needs better connections certainly, but once the line goes beyond Liffey Valley it's all a bit pointless. I suggest better to run a LUAS around Lucan and some neighbouring areas, connecting to Kishogue, Fonthill & Adamstown railway stations.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭ van_beano


    hmmm wrote: »
    Lucan needs better connections certainly, but once the line goes beyond Liffey Valley it's all a bit pointless. I suggest better to run a LUAS around Lucan and some neighbouring areas, connecting to Kishogue, Fonthill & Adamstown railway stations.

    Why would it be pointless going beyond Liffey Valley? There's a massive population in South Lucan and there's further development in the pipeline in Kishogue / Clonburris. The population will be comparable to the Red Line beyond The Square with all that's in Citywest etc. or Green Line before Carrickmines.


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