The world is fixed! (Ideas on multiculturalism/immigration)

pangbang

I replied to a thread on multiculturalism, but I thought instead of just criticising things, I'd offer the barest bones of a solution. To get upto speed on where I'm coming from, I'll post my reply from the other thread here, and then put out a proposal. I'm interested in others thoughts.

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There aren't enough jobs to go around, there aren't enough/affordable homes to go around, there is a lack of financial stability for a majority, college fees are increasing, automation is on the way, HSE is held together with string, law enforcement numbers are decreasing, there are strikes left right and center all vying for more and more from a pot of less and less.......

...so in the context of the above (and that's just a few things off the top of my head), what are the apparent pros of multiculturalism/immigration?

1) Different perspectives...BUT in the age of the internet, if someone really wants to learn from different perspectives, they can just look at a website. If they aren't bothered to learn anything new, then plonking a non-irish person in front of them is hardly gonna change anything, is it?

2) Lovely food.....BUT again, the internet is all you need. And if that isn't good enough, whats wrong with a competent irish person cooking foreign food?

3) They are filling skill-gaps in our workforce....then how about upskilling programmes for irish people in the medium term, so as we don't have that gap forever. When a plumber comes over to your house, you don't invite them to live there forever!

4) Foreign language gaps....again, why not institute programmes where irish people are encouraged to learn language. Why try to improve your job prospects by learning a language when a company can simply hire an import on the cheap? A catch-22 of "irish people don't speak anything other than English", and around and around she goes.

5) Diversity.....that word, in my opinion, is vacuous. It means nothing. I go into a spar shop, some foreign person serves me at the counter and....what? What have I gained from that experience?

6) Increased level of tolerance....this general idea is another big question mark to me. If there are no lions living in my neighbourhood, I don't need to be tolerant of them, its literally a non-issue. If you start introducing lions into my neighbourhood, the excuse is that I should see EVEN more lions in order to tolerate more lions. Its intellectually vapid. Just replace the word "lion" in this silly analogy with Indians, islam, racism-in-general, etc....bonkers.

7) Its a nice idea to be welcoming.....it is. Not any way practical considering the increasing severity of issues our country is facing, but nice!

8) Treat others as you would like to be treated.....again, a nice sentiment. But I cant see it happening! Trot over to Saudi Arabia and see how far they'll bend over backwards to accommodate your culture and ideas. Try to get a job in Pakistan and see how your quality of life turns out, raise your irish family there. Try to integrate into the banlieus of france, it'll be a riot of a time! Hop in a truck and arrive in America, see how quick they'll put you on a waiting list to become an American citizen.

I do not blame immigrants for any of this. If I could go to a different country and vastly improve my life, I'd definitely try within reason. But that doesn't make immigration/multiculturalism a good idea for the host country! Theres a reason all of this is one-way traffic.

Long story short: There is everything to gain for an immigrant coming here. There is nothing to gain for Ireland or Irish people.

Immigration is bad for everyone in the long run anyway. The best/most mobile (not always the same thing!) of a population leave their own country because there is better elsewhere. That means that the problems of said country are not going to be fixed, and in all likelihood will become worse. That means more will want to leave....ever increasing problem.

Host countrys infrastructure suffers and buckles under increasing immigration until it too is no longer suitable for its own people. That leads to EMIgration to yet another country. No problems will be fixed here either.

Locusts! Until we learn to bite the bullet and fix OUR problems OURselves, until we teach others that they have to do the same with their own countries.....this is going to get worse and worse for every single person on the planet.

Forced integration is the absolute wrong direction. Voluntary cooperation with mutual benefit is the way to fix the worlds problems. In the meantime, lets get ready for the very, very painful period of change. Rant over!

---

As you'll see, I have the opinion that immigration is horde-like, locust-like. Not a great idea, in other words!

Lets take a timescale of 50 years.

1) I think immigration should be basically stopped, at least in the terms of it being a permanent move.

2) There should be free movement of people but only for limited amounts of time. Lets put a number of 2 years maximum. That lends itself to "getting to know one another", it can impart some wisdom perhaps, immigrants get to experience different cultures without actually having a downward effect on infrastructure. And its interesting! I cant think of anything more bland than visiting or working in different countries only to see the exact same **** EVERYWHERE! If I go to France, I want to see how FRENCH people live, the FRENCH way of life, FRENCH ideas, FRENCH fashion etc etc. Same for Japan, same for Russia etc.

3) The payoff in decreased permanent movement means that people WILL go home armed with innovation and skills that will help their own country. This improves their own country to the eventual point that people don't feel forced to emigrate.

4) For very disparate economies (lets take Ireland and Nigeria), there should be a programme of voluntary cooperation. Lets flesh this idea out a little, lets use a hospital as an example. We send the engineers and construction people that are NEEDED to help build a high quality hospital. Nigeria pays those people as best as they can, the rest is subsidised by our government. In exchange they can send their ALREADY qualified doctors and nurses to Ireland that they can afford to do without. This is short term mutualism.

Next, we should establish a school of education in Ireland where Nigerian people can come to study. Once they are qualified, they HAVE to go back to Nigeria (remember the two year rule!). In 50 years, I think we'd have a good situation going!

Easy to pick this apart because its a super simple idea, lots of detail missing. BUT....you can see how this is mutually beneficial. And in the short term it would probably benefit Nigeria more than Ireland. Long term, however, its best for EVERYONE, equally.

Consider the typical situation as it stands right now. Nigerian dude emigrates to Ireland, gets the education, stays here. End of story. Nigeria does not benefit from this. The irish doctor who's pushed to go abroad due to increased competition does not benefit from this!

5) ????

6) We all live happily ever after!

As said already, its a brutally simple idea on a message board. Theres no need to start looking for financial breakdowns, or asking others to "prove it!"....what do people think of this general idea? Any other vague-in-practice, sound-in-principle example? How should language learning be handled, for example?

One thing is for sure though, you cant have a permanent movement system like we have right now AND have limited immigration. They just don't work together.

Either that, or we need to start gearing up for world war 3 and massive population "culling"!

drunkmonkey

The force is strong in this one.

stimpson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emFjPoYV050

Birneybau

I LOVE LAMP!

stimpson

Birneybau wrote: »

I LOVE LAMP!

Do you really love the lamp, or are you just saying it because you saw it?

Jack the Stripper

We might not sort it tonight.

pangbang

Jack the Stripper wrote: »

We might not sort it tonight.

We have a whole hour, I want this wrapped up by Monday.

Join date: March 2017.

Ooooooo I AM surprised...

For Forks Sake

Could you sum it up using puppets please.

pangbang

Deleted User wrote: »

Join date: March 2017.

Ooooooo I AM surprised...

Go on....! I posted in another thread and someone else was accusing me of this "funny timing!" thing.

Jack the Stripper

pangbang wrote: »

We have a whole hour, I want this wrapped up by Monday.

Have a beer.

snowflaker

Another immigration thread on boards yeah!

pangbang

snowflaker wrote: »

Another immigration thread on boards yeah!

Well I'm not just complaining, actually putting out an idea. Maybe if people actually talked about fixing problems these things wouldn't keep coming up....you know!?

Sure maybe if we just leave it all alone it'll just disappear instead. Thinking does hurt, afterall (or so Ive heard ;P)

snowflaker

Maybe you should ring the UN instead

AAAAAAAAA

pangbang wrote: »

6) Increased level of tolerance....this general idea is another big question mark to me. If there are no lions living in my neighbourhood, I don't need to be tolerant of them, its literally a non-issue. If you start introducing lions into my neighbourhood, the excuse is that I should see EVEN more lions in order to tolerate more lions. Its intellectually vapid. Just replace the word "lion" in this silly analogy with Indians, islam, racism-in-general, etc....bonkers.

my own experience is that African, Arab and even Polish immigrants are much less tolerant than Irish people

We're getting DECREASED tolerance from immigration

stimpson

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

my own experience is that African, Arab and even Polish immigrants are much less tolerant than Irish people

We're getting DECREASED tolerance from immigration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ882QYzr-M

Grayson

I read the whole of the OP's post. That's time I'm never getting back.

pangbang

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

my own experience is that African, Arab and even Polish immigrants are much less tolerant than Irish people

We're getting DECREASED tolerance from immigration

Yeah I'd agree somewhat. The thing is, if, say, a polish person didn't feel obligated to be here (in other words, wasn't trying his best to set up an entire life in a foreign country), they would probably be far more accepting of life here. Ie a visitor for a year or two max, as opposed to a lifelong immigrant.

Anecdote alert. Friend was at a party with several polish people. One polish guy was going on a rant about how Ireland is bad in this way and that...friend listened to this for a few minutes before stating the obvious, "If you don't like it here, why don't you go home then?". Room went quiet apparently, before the guy starting excusing himself.

Its the whole "forced" thing that's ****ing things up for everyone. That one guy, for example, would obviously rather be home. But he doesn't have good prospects at home. So my friend gets to listen to his bull****, the polish guy is unhappy....bad for everyone!

snowflaker

I read your bs... I'm unhappy can you be deported???

Your Face

How?

pangbang

Grayson wrote: »

I read the whole of the OP's post. That's time I'm never getting back.

Brilliant! I haven't seen such insight in many a year, golly gosh. Could you elaborate on the part where you didn't have anything to say? I just couldn't get my head wrapped around its intricacies! Maybe a step-by-step video, a lecture, perhaps....flabbergasted here. As though the very stroke of your finger across the keyboard was imparting a universal truth, each bend of a knuckle uncovering cosmic value upon value!

snowflaker

pangbang wrote: »

Brilliant! I haven't seen such insight in many a year, golly gosh. Could you elaborate on the part where you didn't have anything to say? I just couldn't get my head wrapped around its intricacies! Maybe a step-by-step video, a lecture, perhaps....flabbergasted here. As though the very stroke of your finger across the keyboard was imparting a universal truth, each bend of a knuckle uncovering cosmic value upon value!

Well your oversimplified bs solution isn't great as an op.

pangbang

snowflaker wrote: »

I read your bs... I'm unhappy can you be deported???

Ive tried to communicate with you before. You are either a low-forehead, or purposefully trying to **** things up. You have NOTHING to say, so why bother posting anything?

snowflaker

pangbang wrote: »

Ive tried to communicate with you before. You are either a low-forehead, or purposefully trying to **** things up. You have NOTHING to say, so why bother posting anything?

You entitled to spout bs- people are entitled to reply

Glenster

I HATE FOREIGNERS!!!!!!


Am I doing it right?

pangbang

snowflaker wrote: »

You entitled to spout bs- people are entitled to reply

The idea, I thought, was that other people would say "yes, that's a good idea because..." or "no, that's a bad idea because...."

What you and a few others have done is....nothing. Imagine Einstein delivering a lecture on relativity, and then some guy stands up at the very end of it, declares the word "no!" and then just continues to stand there....its weird, man.

And I'll save your brain the work of coming up with the joke....no, I'm not comparing myself to Einstein.

I'll even save you the time on the second joke...."You had me fooled!" for the sarcastic angle, or "as if you needed to point it out" for the po-faced one :P

pangbang

Glenster wrote: »

I HATE FOREIGNERS!!!!!!


Am I doing it right?

I'll tell you what youre doing right, being a reactionary no-brainer. You have that down pat. You see a few words, certain primitive parts of your brain start to shoot electrons....not many now, JUST enough... to jump to the "RACIST!" section. Theres a good automaton, fair play.

snowflaker

pangbang wrote: »

The idea, I thought, was that other people would say "yes, that's a good idea because..." or "no, that's a bad idea because...."

What you and a few others have done is....nothing. Imagine Einstein delivering a lecture on relativity, and then some guy stands up at the very end of it, declares the word "no!" and then just continues to stand there....its weird, man.

And I'll save your brain the work of coming up with the joke....no, I'm not comparing myself to Einstein.

I'll even save you the time on the second joke...."You had me fooled!" for the sarcastic angle, or "as if you needed to point it out" for the po-faced one :P

But you are though. Sounds more like something a reader of the Daily Sport would come up with after spending all his dole money on cans of strong bow and fruit machines

Glenster

pangbang wrote: »

I'll tell you what youre doing right, being a reactionary no-brainer. You have that down pat. You see a few words, certain primitive parts of your brain start to shoot electrons....not many now, JUST enough... to jump to the "RACIST!" section. Theres a good automaton, fair play.

I didn't jump to it. I read the ignorant nonsense on here and decided the view (singular) espoused by you and your ilk was defective, and not based in fact or logic.

So I made the not unreasonable assumption that it was based on hate.

pangbang

snowflaker wrote: »

But you are though. Sounds more like something a reader of the Daily Sport would come up with after spending all his dole money on cans of strong bow and fruit machines

But I am....what? Tell me whats wrong with the idea then.

A controlled temporary-immigration policy that's based on mutual benefit (which some thicko equates to "racism"!)...I'll highlight the word again for those blinded by danger words..."MUTUAL".......is what I'm proposing. The end of permanent immigration.

Now....whats your idea?

Glenster

snowflaker wrote: »

But you are though. Sounds more like something a reader of the Daily Sport would come up with after spending all his dole money on cans of strong bow and fruit machines

Now, it seems unfair to accuse certain posters here of being the kind of people who wander around town centres in dirty jogging bottoms at three pm on a workday giving brown people the stink eye.

Glenster

pangbang wrote: »

But I am....what? Tell me whats wrong with the idea then.

A controlled temporary-immigration policy that's based on mutual benefit (which some thicko equates to "racism"!)...I'll highlight the word again for those blinded by danger words..."MUTUAL".......is what I'm proposing. The end of permanent immigration.

Now....whats your idea?

For every immigrant that comes in some irish pr*ck on the dole has to p*ss off over to the country the immigrant came from.

pangbang

Glenster wrote: »

I didn't jump to it. I read the ignorant nonsense on here and decided the view (singular) espoused by you and your ilk was defective, and not based in fact or logic.

So I made the not unreasonable assumption that it was based on hate.

So you decided what constitutes fact and logic (think about that, slowly!) to support your world view. Well done.

Now, if youd like to surprise me....tell me whats wrong with my idea. If its so stupid, it should be easy! Easier than just saying its "stupid" even!

Go for it, I'm with you all the way, you can do it!

pangbang

Glenster wrote: »

For every immigrant that comes in some irish pr*ck on the dole has to p*ss off over to the country the immigrant came from.

I'll take your dumb idea and run with it, hear me out. How about for every immigrant that comes into the country, a dope that supports it should be moved over to their country. Now that's mutual, and putting your money where your mouth is!

Or in other words, youre saying you don't have any counterpoint to my original post?

Glenster

pangbang wrote: »

So you decided what constitutes fact and logic (think about that, slowly!) to support your world view. Well done.

Now, if youd like to surprise me....tell me whats wrong with my idea. If its so stupid, it should be easy! Easier than just saying its "stupid" even!

Go for it, I'm with you all the way, you can do it!

You want people to talk about your ideas?

Get better ideas mate.

The reason no-one went though your ideas and said what was good and bad point by point is that its all reactionary gibberish, and people dont have the time to waste on nonsense.

Glenster

pangbang wrote: »

I'll take your dumb idea and run with it, hear me out. How about for every immigrant that comes into the country, a dope that supports it should be moved over to their country. Now that's mutual, and putting your money where your mouth is!

Or in other words, youre saying you don't have any counterpoint to my original post?

That's not taking my idea and running with it.

Maybe mandatory english lessons are the answer.....

pangbang

Glenster wrote: »

You want people to talk about your ideas?

Get better ideas mate.

The reason no-one went though your ideas and said what was good and bad point by point is that its all reactionary gibberish, and people dont have the time to waste on nonsense.

I'll tell you why I haven't gotten an intelligent reply yet...cos no-one intelligent replied yet. Simple as that.

There are three pages of people saying "no!" with absolutely nothing else to say.

On the contrary to it being it gibberish, its quite a difficult subject, and what I've proposed is complicated (and super simplified!). Hence the lack of replies.

If its such gibberish then POINT OUT HOW IT IS GIBBERISH! Back up your words. Demonstrate substance. show that you have an actual idea somewhere in your head.

Or you could just keep devoting the same amount of time to repeating the word "no!" like a moron

Glenster

pangbang wrote: »

I'll tell you why I haven't gotten an intelligent reply yet...cos no-one intelligent replied yet. Simple as that.

There are three pages of people saying "no!" with absolutely nothing else to say.

On the contrary to it being it gibberish, its quite a difficult subject, and what I've proposed is complicated (and super simplified!). Hence the lack of replies.

If its such gibberish then POINT OUT HOW IT IS GIBBERISH! Back up your words. Demonstrate substance. show that you have an actual idea somewhere in your head.

Or you could just keep devoting the same amount of time to repeating the word "no!" like a moron

Nah, your thread is a waste of everyones time.

pangbang

Glenster wrote: »

Nah, your thread is a waste of everyones time.

What a loser, cant even back up your OWN words. Congratulations on derailing the threads idea for discourse and conversation though....

Boom_Bap

Thread Closed
Firstly we don't need an immigration thread.
Secondly, and this is directed to you OP, if you don't agree with someone's opinion, don't resort to insults. There is a mantra on boards to attack the post not the poster.