Are dictatorships a growing trend?

lightspeed

Is history repeating itself again?

It seems like there is wave of dictatorship in recent years.

Venezuela's supreme court basically stripped away the legislative powers of congress at the behest of president Madoras. Although it has since been reversed after protests but he seems to distancing himself from the move as if it had nothing to do with him.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-39468045

In addition, in Turkey you have president Erdogan doing his best to enhance his executive powers and effectively become a dictator.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/29/the-dictatorship-in-natos-clubhouse-erdogan-kurds-turkey/


Although not a dictatorship, even in the USA we have seen Trump force the environmental protection agency to remove all science and data relating to global warming.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-epa-climatechange-idUSKBN15906G

In Paraquay there seems to be a bit of mayhem over the president trying to extend his term. I suppose people are fearful of what else that could turn into.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/01/paraguay-coup-death-of-activist-threatens-to-reignite-protests

Jack the Stripper

How valid are your links op?

melloa

the only threat to democracy is a good king

ygolometsipe

lightspeed wrote: »

It seems like there is wave of dictatorship in recent years.

a dictator is the best kind of ship to sail over it.

If voting changed anything they'd make it illegal.

I think you'll find dictatorships have been around since the bible OP, no new trend there at all.

dd972

THREAD CLOSED

ygolometsipe

THREAD REOPENED (yay...)

Atlantic Dawn

Kim Jong-un is a great laugh, I do love it when he launches the prehistoric missiles they have in to the air, it's like a few lads chipping in €5 a head and buying fancy rockets on Moore Street and watching them shoot off in to the sunset. If he showed the public of NK bluetooth he would be seen as a god like figure with superpowers.

abdulabduler

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Kim Jong-un is a great laugh, I do love it when he launches the prehistoric missiles they have in to the air, it's like a few lads chipping in €5 a head and buying fancy rockets on Moore Street and watching them shoot off in to the sunset. If he showed the public of NK bluetooth he would be seen as a god like figure with superpowers.

You will not insult Dear Leader like this. Anti aircraft gun for you.

Mountainsandh

Isn't it all cyclic anyway, the way society/ies evolve ? There is this documentary with Chomsky atm on Netflix, not that I'd take his word on every thing, but one premise is that too much democracy inevitably seems to call for restraint. His view is that the elite (rich and powerful) few will allow democracy to thrive for as long as it serves their interest (people employed, and consuming). When they feel that their control on people in that environment is slipping, they need another cycle of dictatorship to steer things back into the direction they want (power/riches).
Or something like that, too wrecked for this right now.
Something American Dream, Choamsky, Netflix, watch in sections or you could end up catatonic.

Kermit.de.frog

"Heil Kermit!". I'm currently finalising the salute and then will make my move with my growing underground army.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm currently finalising the salute.

Does it go anything like this? :P

corner of hells

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

"Heil Kermit!". I'm currently finalising the salute and then will make my move with my growing underground army.

Your tadpole army ?

Arcade_Tryer

lightspeed wrote: »

Is history repeating itself again?

History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme!

Democracy has shown itself to be corrupt and inefficient. People want something better but there's no other real options... so they look to dictatorship since they've forgotten the bad and just remember the good of it. Speak to Spanish people about Franco.. Selective memories...

Richard Hillman

Strong leaders are always needed. The media are obsessed with electing people who are husband material instead of great leaders. There is a reason why the likes of Putin and Erdogan are very popular in their countries. They do their job, they fight tooth and nail for their countries.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The fact that classical liberalism has been hijacked by far left regressives is probably something to worry about.

It's a puritanical ideology. They wish to censor words for instance, without accommodating for context. It's a ideology based on child like emotion and 'feelz', not reason or logic.

They're bigots in the truest form.

Utterly intolerant to those with different views.

biko

History is always repeating itself.
We never learn

darkdubh

Deleted User wrote: »

If voting changed anything they'd make it illegal.

I think you'll find dictatorships have been around since the bible OP, no new trend there at all.

The op's point is that there's been a recent resurgence in dictator type behaviour from national leaders. No ones suggesting that it's all new.

darkdubh

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Strong leaders are always needed. The media are obsessed with electing people who are husband material instead of great leaders. There is a reason why the likes of Putin and Erdogan are very popular in their countries. They do their job, they fight tooth and nail for their countries.

They've also brought their countries into conflict with The West and clamped down on the media, had critics arrested on trumped up charges or murdered in the case of Putin. I'd rather take my chances with the ineffectual bunch we're used to in this country than have some "strongman" take over.

ArchXStanton

The EU is shaping up nicely...

Richard Hillman

darkdubh wrote: »

They've also brought their countries into conflict with The West and clamped down on the media, had critics arrested on trumped up charges or murdered in the case of Putin. I'd rather take my chances with the ineffectual bunch we're used to in this country than have some "strongman" take over.

But people are happy.

Ralf and Florian

In some ways De Valera was probably the closest to a dictator we've had in this country.

me_right_one

OP since when were dictatorships ever NOT the norm? You do realise democracy isn't even 100 years old in THIS country?

Samaris

It comes and goes in cycles. Countries that haven't had democracy long enough to have the framework laid in so heavily that it's very difficult to remove by a potential dictator are always going to be prone to fall back into it, especially as early-stage democracies are almost invariably corrupt (well, very often!), especially if they've had it forced on them. The West is a bit inclined to declaim that democracy is the only way and you better do it now. That gives people less of an invested interest to build a democracy and aim to safeguard it.

As for the west, well, Europe's last round of dictatorial types are just fading out of living memory, we've just seen a nasty recession coupled with the fear of war, decades of messing in the Middle East coming home to roost, and an interconnected world where, while everyone's benefit spreads to everyone, each others' weaknessess likewise impact other countries. These were all broached under democracy and when a political system doesn't seem to be helping, we tend to move away from it and try find something else that does work - at least for a time.

Personally, I don't think our problem is democracy and I also think that we're about through the worst as long as idiots don't bubble the markets again (which is looks like they are doing). But people will always be people and these swings happen. Hopefully our safeguards are strongly enough in place that they cannot be easily ripped out.

Also, while interventionism ultimately just causes serious issues and to some extent, people need to rise up when they're ready to, perhaps with subtle outside support, if any damn country needed an intervention, it's North Korea. The conditions people live in there are vile, and the sheer level of thought control is insidious and evil. There was an interview some months ago with a young woman who escaped (and the hell that these people go through to escape is unreal) who was raised with the idea that the current Kim could read her thoughts. Imagine that for a moment; utterly believing (and with little evidence to the contrary) that the ruling despot can see your mind. If you don't even dare to -think- that this is wrong, how can you stand up to it? People bitch about not being allowed socially to use certain words in the west, but one's freedom to call someone a retarded n*gger or whatever is really not comparable to one's freedom to think any sort of negative thought about one's political leader.

NK looks funny because of the sheer bat**** insanity of the moron in charge, but under the surface, it's horrific.

mzungu

Richard Hillman wrote: »

But people are happy.

Are they? A fair amount showed up to anti-government protests in Russia recently. A good portion of them were young.

Richard Hillman

mzungu wrote: »

Are they? A fair amount showed up to anti-government protests in Russia recently. A good portion of them were young.

81% approval rating.


Meanwhile transgender Activist and media lovie Justin Trudeau (or just Justin to some media folk) is surfing high at 48%.

Avatar MIA

Richard Hillman wrote: »

81% approval rating.

The only surprising thing about that approval rating is that it's not 100%.

Dictators seem to be more nuanced lately.

bonzodog2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

"Heil Kermit!". I'm currently finalising the salute and then will make my move with my growing underground army.

Do you need henchmen, your greenness? I can do you a deal! Also talk to me about hired goons. No questions asked.

Samaris

And always remember to tell your victims The Plan in excruciating detail -after- you've killed them. Sure, you'll look a bit weird talking to a corpse, but it keeps your henchmen on their toes.

Ralf and Florian

Richard Hillman wrote: »

But people are happy.

People are always happy under dictatorships. They're too afraid to say otherwise.

Samaris

Well, and some of them can be happy. There are relatively non-nefarious ways and means of having a dictatorship, but the issue is that eventually the dictator will change and even if the first one wanted to do his best for his country and wasn't completely insane, what happens if the next one is? The big benefit of democracy is the chance to peacefully get rid of maniacs and idiots in office.

Ferrari3600

me_right_one wrote: »

OP since when were dictatorships ever NOT the norm? You do realise democracy isn't even 100 years old in THIS country?

Incorrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Ireland

oneilla

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

In some ways De Valera was probably the closest to a dictator we've had in this country.

The Catholic church. Other countries had fascism, we got the church.

oneilla

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The fact that classical liberalism has been hijacked by far left regressives is probably something to worry about.

It's a puritanical ideology. They wish to censor words for instance, without accommodating for context. It's a ideology based on child like emotion and 'feelz', not reason or logic.

They're bigots in the truest form.

Utterly intolerant to those with different views.

If "classical liberalism" could be hijacked by overemotional child-like bigots, then it can't have been too robust to start with eh?

Richard Hillman

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

People are always happy under dictatorships. They're too afraid to say otherwise.

Yes. All of those fearful people in Turkey came out onto the streets to attack the armed forces during a coup attempt because they were afraid.

mzungu

Richard Hillman wrote: »

81% approval rating.


Meanwhile transgender Activist and media lovie Justin Trudeau (or just Justin to some media folk) is surfing high at 48%.

That would be Kremlin backed approval ratings. Large pinch of salt needed.

goose2005

Against that, Burma-Myanmar has been slowly moving away from dictatorship.

Glenster

there are less and less dictatorships every year.

FACT.

goose2005

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

In some ways De Valera was probably the closest to a dictator we've had in this country.

Not even close. Collins would be a better example, as Chairman of the Provisional Government, Minister for Finance, Commander-in-chief of the Army, as well as his charisma and large personal following and his extensive spy network, was probably the closest to an Irish dictator.

Richard Hillman

goose2005 wrote: »

Against that, Burma-Myanmar has been slowly moving away from dictatorship.

On the subject of Burma, I was watching a bbc report on The Lady this week. It turns out that she isn't very nice at all


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/31/aung-san-suu-kyi-myanmars-great-hope-fails-to-live-up-to-expectations

(Sorry for the Guardian link)

me_right_one

Ferrari3600 wrote: »

Incorrect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Ireland

That was imposed "freedom" by the british occupiers. You and I both know that.

RDM_83 again

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Isn't it all cyclic anyway, the way society/ies evolve ? There is this documentary with Chomsky atm on Netflix, not that I'd take his word on every thing, but one premise is that too much democracy inevitably seems to call for restraint. His view is that the elite (rich and powerful) few will allow democracy to thrive for as long as it serves their interest (people employed, and consuming). When they feel that their control on people in that environment is slipping, they need another cycle of dictatorship to steer things back into the direction they want (power/riches).
Or something like that, too wrecked for this right now.
Something American Dream, Choamsky, Netflix, watch in sections or you could end up catatonic.

I don't agree at all, I think what we are seeing with the current wave of authoritarianism populism could be taken as exactly the opposite, a small segment of the very highest level of elites and the majority of the people being against the notions of a system that is guided by the upper class to upper middle classes.

Look at the response to something like Brexit, I think it was a stupid move myself but among the chattering classes you can see a lot of kickback against the idea of letting the masses decide individual issues directly which is ironically what democracy should be all about.

Just because we don't like something doesn't mean its not democratic, and democracy doesn't just mean republican democracy.

Mountainsandh

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I don't agree at all, I think what we are seeing with the current wave of authoritarianism populism could be taken as exactly the opposite, a small segment of the very highest level of elites and the majority of the people being against the notions of a system that is guided by the upper class to upper middle classes.

Look at the response to something like Brexit, I think it was a stupid move myself but among the chattering classes you can see a lot of kickback against the idea of letting the masses decide individual issues directly which is ironically what democracy should be all about.

Just because we don't like something doesn't mean its not democratic, and democracy doesn't just mean republican democracy.

Sorry I don't understand your post

RDM_83 again

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Sorry I don't understand your post

That the current wave of authoritarianism and populism isn't due to elites in a general sense trying to take control, its a small subset of elites that are hijacking/'listening to the people' (delete as appropriate) of electorates that are disgruntled with politics that seems to be designed for the advantage of the elites, the upper middle classes and the "citizens of the world, citizens of no where".

These elites are happy enough to function in a very socially and economically liberal democratic system, pushing authoritarian protectionist nationalists is counter to the interests of rootless multinationals.

The second part of my post is that democracy is about listening to the people, its not about a meritocracy or technocracy or even individual rights, its about the will of the people. I feel that the responses of many of the commenteriat to things like the Brexit vote or the reaction to the DNC hack indicates the anti-democratic elitism that lurks under the surface.

I am not necessarily saying that dictatorship/authoritarianism isn't going to rise, my disagreement is with the idea that its part of a movement by the broader elite.

To take a historic example, its like Rome moving from the Republic to the Emperors, the Emperors formed a very small subset of the elite, they reduced the power of the wider elite (senatorial classes) and they weren't any worse for the vast majority of people (the Plebs) or any less popular, thats probably really mangling Roman history but it should illustrate what I mean

Samaris

The point on "rootless multinationals", by which I assume you mean refugees, is another important issue as to why this rise. People are freaked out at the waves of scary different people coming into the country. This too happens at times when a country (or several) is in a bad state. The Middle East is chaotic and people are fleeing. We did the same during the Famine. I suppose we too were "rootless multinationals", bringing our culture and our weird Popish religion over to the US. And invading bits of Canada, and the current refugees in Europe have so far significantly failed to mount an invasion of Belarus. The "first place to set foot" rule was short-sighted. It put too much pressure on the countries facing onto the Med, especially Greece, which is a basket-case currently that can barely feed itself. Spreading them across the EU states in proportion to base population (while keeping family groups together) would have been saner in the long run, and may have headed off resentment. It's an old tradition, but it doesn't work as things stand. Mixed in with ISIS' legitimately terrifying tactics, it was inevitable that innocent people who have already suffered greatly would be blamed.

I doubt it would have been nearly such a problem without all the rest of it though, it was a pile-on of different issues; economic, social, even technological, historical issues coming back to haunt the west. The refugees became a convenient place to point a finger - as they always are in these cases. They were no more responsible for what's been happening than any other single factor; and each individual person less so than most.

Your Face

Im just glad skinny jeans are no longer a trend.

RDM_83 again

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I am not necessarily saying that dictatorship/authoritarianism isn't going to rise, my disagreement is with the idea that its part of a movement by the broader elite.

Typically these movements come about from the social unrest of the middle and lower classes... Which is the same with Europe. I agree with you that the drive is not coming from the Elite.

Immigrants will receive the majority of focus because it's the people on the bottom who will see their benefits cut or the temporary jobs that will be taken from them, just as the middle class will see their taxes rise to pay the new costs. The inefficiencies of Democratic countries to deal with the refugee crisis is encouraging this trend especially when they hear reports of the costs involved in helping the refugees as opposed to what has been done to help the native citizens. Regardless of the actual reality of the situation. But then reality does tend to take second place to emotional responses to increased difficulties in their lives... we all love having a scapegoat.

Europe has had issues long before the refugee crisis began... and very little had been seen to be done to resolve these issues in the eyes of the "masses". Instead, we've seen a host of corruption and political scandals. Traditional Political parties across Europe have been seen to have failed their responsibilities and just seeking to play the "game" of politics with "normal" people paying the price. Just as many people see the law subverted to protect the elite or the politicians, creating a dual legal system that punishes "normal" people for doing the same.

So, people are seeking a change from what went before. Even if that means turning to nationalism, fascism, etc. IMO, It's the way democracy and the legal system have evolved that is pushing people towards supporting the extreme right or extreme left.

RDM_83 again

Actually by rootless multinationals I was referring to companies and capital.

If your referring to "citizens of the world, citizens of nowhere" that's butchering a Theresa May quote*, it's not about the poor migrant but rather Tarquin that goes to a middle class school does his gap year in West Africa of to college then works for multinational or aid organisation that places them overseas occasionally and looks down on working class British patriotism while proclaiming themselves a citizen of the world.
E.g completely disconnected from the majority of the population

The previous poster dealt well with the refugee thing

A Little Pony

Richard Hillman wrote: »

mzungu wrote: »

Are they? A fair amount showed up to anti-government protests in Russia recently. A good portion of them were young.

81% approval rating.


Meanwhile transgender Activist and media lovie Justin Trudeau (or just Justin to some media folk) is surfing high at 48%.

He has ruined Canada. The Islamophobia nonsense recently sums his government up.

dublinman1990

I would say the remaining dictatorships are focused now in a more potent manner by the media. Places like the Middle East, North Korea, Russia & China have had an extra focus on them now then compared to other countries when their dictatorships were more common in the past.

When we talk about democracies like the UK when Brexit had it's vote to leave the EU. You see people who could have voted 'Leave' after the referendum finished by going out onto the streets and committing hate crimes to innocent members of the public. You would have seen that trouble just one day after the result of that referendum. It is been noticed that the cycle of hate crime has been going on the rise to give a large negative effect on the country's personal reputation.

Swing that scenario the other way when the UK votes 'Remain'.

In a democracy like the UK; you could have hardly heard of any people going outdoors on the streets committing these crimes to those same innocent members of the public. I would say this because the preferred reaction of Remain is somewhat more peaceful to the eyes of the beholder to people on the street. It gives an impression that a result like this would allow some form of stability to be present. It gives them a sense of living in peace that is good for their own wellbeing.

In Ireland; we don't have a perfect democracy as it stands as of now. There is still a lot of work to do while we live here to make it better for our families & whoever else to share the benefits of our prosperity.

All I saying is that living in Ireland is not a bad thing as it's intended to be. Living in a country like Ireland give can us some good things in life if we deserve them. We recently voted Yes to Gay Marriage to allow Gay people get married along with straight married couples; we in Ireland have had discussions about the possible use of Water services being under public ownership via a referendum.

We are having discussions now in the public domain about housing, health, public transport issues & talking about the TV licence. But all of these things are done in a peaceful way among other Irish people. That is the way I would like it while living in Ireland.

I could not stomach the idea of living in a dictatorship because that type of fearful leadership role can bring division & strife.

All I can say to that is too kindly go and fúck off to any of that shyte to even come onto Irish shores. Ireland is a paradise when compared to other countries that have the status of having dictatorships in them. I would love to see a world where dictatorships are eradicated for life. They have caused so much damage to people's lives for a very long period.

I, with other people, can cope with living in Ireland as it is a more bearable atmosphere than to what it is comapred to dictatorships.