Has someone finally got the balls to deal with the HSE?

steddyeddy

Huge waiting lists, nepotism and seemingly unfireable incompetents; these are just some of the problems and symptoms of Ireland's health service in recent years. I briefly worked as a lab tech in a hospital and in my short time I was exposed to incompetent civil servants, sons and daughters of civil servants working in easily obtained cushy jobs (cushy relative to frontline staff) and massive massive waste. I work in an academic/us GOV lab now and if we spent the amount that some HSE labs spent on equipment and consumables we'd be out.

To long to read? The bottom line is the problems in the HSE are obvious at this stage. There needs to be a reduction in management and the firing and dumping of people and practices that are wasteful. I was doubtful but it seems Simon Harris has the right idea.

By the way I'll add that I have nothing bad to say about the extremely hard working and thankless frontline staff.

The Health Service Executive should be a slimmed-down body "more equipped to lead than to directly control" and "with less management layers between the top and the front line", the Minister for Health has said.

Simon Harris outlined his vision for a less bureaucratic HSE at this morning's meeting of the Oireachtas Committee on the Future of Healthcare.

During his opening address on the future direction of health policy, Mr Harris said: "Over the next decade we need to get past the stage of constant fire-fighting to a place where we can have a mature debate about how to set priorities and where to develop our services."

Mr Harris also said he hopes political consensus can be agreed on the forthcoming report of the committee.

He said: "Subject to the committee's report, I intend to ask my department to come forward with proposals to improve governance arrangements for the HSE for so long as the HSE continues in its current form.

"This will include examination of the current vesting of governing authority in the HSE Directorate, including the fact that the director general is responsible to the directorate for the performance of his or her functions."

However he stressed his desire for a slimmed-down HSE body.

He said: "We have gained much in recent years through national initiatives in areas such as the cancer programme, the integrated care programmes, the Fair Deal scheme and many other areas. We need to retain such capability and avoid reverting to stand-alone geographically based organisations in the mould of the health boards.

"However, the national health capability which takes the place of the HSE is likely to be a slimmed-down body; one more equipped to lead than to directly control and, accordingly, with less management layers between the top and the front line."

Mr Harris told the committee that the current system that financially incentivises hospital consultants to treat private patients instead of public patients is "perverse" and measures need to be taken quickly to change it.

He was responding to a question from committee chair Róisín Shorthall, who asked about the provision of private care in public hospitals.

Earlier, in his opening address to the committee, the minister suggested that hospital consultants' should no longer be paid through individual "fee-for-service payments" for treating patients. Instead they should be paid for treating private patients as part of their annual salary, he said.

Jack the Stripper

Let's get mad drunk first and grease up the pitch forks.

Widdershins

Hopefully this shambles will get whipped into shape. It can't get much worse!

__Alex__

Based on a group of people I know working in UCHG, nepotism is rampant. My OH even walked into a job there in his early 20s because my MIL worked there. And there is so many people in the extended family in jobs there. My OH left because it was deathly dull. My OH worked with a guy who had worked there his whole life from the age of 16 and was quite lazy. He retired on a seven figure pension. :eek: I was also shocked at how much the pay was for working a Sunday overnight shift. And this was in a low-skilled office position. It's all a bit obscene.

Tom Mann Centuria

__Alex__ wrote: »

Based on a group of people I know working in UCHG, nepotism is rampant. My OH even walked into a job there in his early 20s because my MIL worked there. And there is so many people in the extended family in jobs there. My OH left because it was deathly dull. My OH worked with a guy who had worked there his whole life from the age of 16 and was quite lazy. He retired on a seven figure pension. :eek: I was also shocked at how much the pay was for working a Sunday overnight shift. And this was in a low-skilled pen-pushing position. It's all a bit obscene.

What low skilled pen pushers work weekend nights?

pjohnson

Oh god if the unions see this its time to picket

topmanamillion

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

What low skilled pen pushers work weekend nights?

Lots of clerical staff work weekends in places like A&E

Tom Mann Centuria

topmanamillion wrote: »

Lots of clerical staff work weekends in places like A&E

A very small percentage of clerical workforce within HSE work weekends and nights but yep, you're right, some do work in ED and MAU.

__Alex__

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

What low skilled pen pushers work weekend nights?

Well, it was switchboards. So probably I used the wrong term. But I'd imagine some office workers would be needed at all hours. Any more disbelieving questions to ask? I have no reason to make this stuff up.

steddyeddy

__Alex__ wrote: »

Based on a group of people I know working in UCHG, nepotism is rampant. My OH even walked into a job there in his early 20s because my MIL worked there. And there is so many people in the extended family in jobs there. My OH left because it was deathly dull. My OH worked with a guy who had worked there his whole life from the age of 16 and was quite lazy. He retired on a seven figure pension. :eek: I was also shocked at how much the pay was for working a Sunday overnight shift. And this was in a low-skilled pen-pushing position. It's all a bit obscene.

The thing is we don't need conjecture or anecdote. We have proof. When "temporary" positions were filled in the HSE, they were filled by the sons and daughters of three senior managers. The vast majority of community welfare officers in Limerick had friends and family in the HSE. In other words it's run like a welfare state for friends and family members of the HSE staff. Oh and the starting pay was 29k. All below in this article from the Independent. They even published the names of the family members (as if they had shame).

Nepotism is rampant throughout the Health Service Executive (HSE), as the Sunday Independent has exposed another group of children of senior managers being appointed to jobs which were not advertised.
Three weeks ago, this newspaper revealed that the children of four managers in a Cork office and three children of managers in Limerick were appointed to non-advertised positions despite a national moratorium on recruitment.
This weekend, the Sunday Independent has learned the children of another three senior managers in Dublin were appointed to clerical grade-three positions on a temporary basis to aid in the administration of the Back to School Scheme. However, these people are still in their posts over a year later.

The individuals involved in the Dublin office are: Eoin Tighe, son of regional manager Rita Tighe; Grace Whittle, daughter of superintendent Joseph Whittle; and Mark Mulvihill, son of senior manager Noel Mulvihill.
Health Minister Mary Harney, through her spokesman, said that she was awaiting the findings of a HSE investigation into the charges of nepotism but stressed that it was her view that public-sector norms in terms of recruitment were adhered to strictly.

The HSE confirmed that the roles were filled without external advertisement but in line with existing emergency short-term provisions and following a derogation to the public sector-wide moratorium of staff recruitment.
Fine Gael's Health spokesman James Reilly said there was only one word to describe appointments like this -- nepotism.

"It is utterly intolerable that senior managers in the HSE would see fit to nominate family members to paid positions in the HSE without advertising those positions, in an organisation already struggling for credibility."
He said it was disgraceful and a reflection of the mindset of HSE managers that they would show complete disregard for fairness and transparency by giving family members jobs without any recourse to due process.

Normal HSE recruitment policy dictates that all vacancies are filled by open competition, with posts advertised in national and local media as well as on the HSE website.
None of the 13 temporary positions as grade-three clerical officers in the HSE South region were advertised, while the Limerick posts were only advertised to existing staff.

The "vast majority" of 15 temporary Community Welfare Officers (CWOs) working in Limerick were family members and friends of HSE staff.
Among those to be appointed to jobs, which carry an annual salary of over €29,000, were Rosaleen Walsh, daughter of HSE project officer Ignatius Walsh; Killian O'Sullivan, husband of HSE CWO Geraldine O'Rourke; and Kevin Gaffney, husband of HSE CWO Anne Mulcair.

Among those to obtain jobs in the HSE South area were Orlaith Healy, the daughter of HSE South regional director of operations Pat Healy; Gillian O'Brien, daughter of HSE South assistant national director of human resources Barry O'Brien; Richard Laide, son of HSE South senior finance official Mick Laide; and Mark O'Donovan, son of HSE head of procurement John O'Donovan.
In a statement to the Sunday Independent, the HSE confirmed the jobs were awarded without any external advertisement.

A spokeswoman said: "All staff members working on the Back to School Scheme 2009 in the Dublin area had been interviewed in a competitive process prior to the commencement of this scheme."
The HSE's examination into alleged nepotism in the appointment of relatives of senior managers is ongoing at present, the spokeswoman added.

Tom Mann Centuria

__Alex__ wrote: »

Well, it was switchboards. So probably I used the wrong term. Any more disbelieving questions to ask? I have no reason to make this stuff up.

Well the reason to ask questions is to get answers, that's how questions work.

Quandary

The unions have too tight a grip on it. It's a bloated mess dripping with waste, incompetence, nepotism and a deeply ingrained unwillingness to change, particularly on the part of over staffed middle management and clerical. Front line staff will continue to suffer while those in the background will sit quietly while their unions defend the indefensible.The level of reform that's needed will sadly never happen IMO.

steddyeddy

__Alex__ wrote: »

Based on a group of people I know working in UCHG, nepotism is rampant. My OH even walked into a job there in his early 20s because my MIL worked there. And there is so many people in the extended family in jobs there. My OH left because it was deathly dull. My OH worked with a guy who had worked there his whole life from the age of 16 and was quite lazy. He retired on a seven figure pension. :eek: I was also shocked at how much the pay was for working a Sunday overnight shift. And this was in a low-skilled pen-pushing position. It's all a bit obscene.

The lab I worked in later hired the nephew of a HSE manager there. He wasn't and isn't qualified and isn't even a biochemist. He's an ecologist and yet beat a load of qualified biochemists to a biochemist's role. If there's a mix up in a certain hospital in Dublin and someone dies as a result the HSE will be responsible. Before you ask I did complain.

Tom Mann Centuria

steddyeddy wrote: »

The lab I worked in later hired the nephew of a HSE manager there. He wasn't and isn't qualified and isn't even a biochemist. He's an ecologist and yet beat a load of qualified biochemists to a biochemist's role. If there's a mix up in a certain hospital in Dublin and someone dies as a result the HSE will be responsible. Before you ask I did complain.

Can almost hear the shredder from complaints manager from here. There would always be someone else to blame if there was a mistake, probably one of the qualified biochemists, that's how management roll.

__Alex__

steddyeddy wrote: »

The thing is we don't need conjecture or anecdote. We have proof.

Well, I'm just replying to a boards thread on my own knowledge, of course it's just anecdote.

steddyeddy

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Can almost hear the shredder from complaints manager from here. There would always be someone else to blame if there was a mistake, probably one of them qualified ones, that's how management roll.

Yes that's how it works. I'm actually glad I'm not living in the country right now.

Poor Uncle Tom

Mary Harney has a lot to answer for, lets hope Harris isn't just full of placating soundbites, lets hope he has the courage to follow through and not do a Kenny on it and push it out of sight down the road.

SEPT 23 1989

You are either inside or outside the tent in this country

Poor Uncle Tom

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm actually glad I'm not living in the country right now.

I know those in Dublin think they're above everyone else, but that's a bit rich.......:P

steddyeddy

__Alex__ wrote: »

Well, I'm just replying to a boards thread on my own knowledge, of course it's just anecdote.

Sorry I didn't mean to direct that at you. I provided anecdote too. I was just wanted to add that this is all well documented yet nothing is done.

steddyeddy

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I know those in Dublin think they're above everyone else, but that's a bit rich.......:P

Ha ha I mean I'm living in the UK.

Tom Mann Centuria

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry I didn't mean to direct that at you. I provided anecdote too. I was just wanted to add that this is all well documented yet nothing is done.

Well they take on more managers to sort the problem of too many managers.

The_Valeyard

Promises to sort out the health system??

I smell an election.

please helpThank YOU

HSE Disband them.

Tom Mann Centuria

I suggest a series of regional health boards. Probably still some old stationary knocking around somewhere.

diomed

I'm sure they were the best qualified to fill the positions.
You have to pay the right money to attract the right calibre of candidate.
Is there anything to be said for another report?

Merkin

I worked closely with the HSE on a project I was doing for them a number of years ago and I can safely say I've never come across a more bovine, useless, lazy shower of fcuckers in my whole life.

Indolence was endemic from top to bottom and their entire days 'work' was punctuated and dictated by a gazillion seemingly mandatory tea breaks.

Needs to be privatised and 'work' force streamlined by about 75%. Complete shower of money wasting coconuts.

Tom Mann Centuria

Merkin wrote: »

I worked closely with the HSE on a project I was doing for them a number of years ago and I can safely say I've never come across a more bovine, useless, lazy shower of fcuckers in my whole life.

Indolence was endemic from top to bottom and their entire days 'work' was punctuated and dictated by a gazillion seemingly mandatory tea breaks.

Needs to be privatised and 'work' force streamlined by about 75%. Complete shower of money wasting coconuts.

Who'd want to take over the running of the HSE if you want it privatised? Can't imagine the queue would be too long, even then the tender process would result in someone in the bigger loop magically winning the bid, because this problem isn't just within the HSE.

__Alex__

Merkin wrote: »

I worked closely with the HSE on a project I was doing for them a number of years ago and I can safely say I've never come across a more bovine, useless, lazy shower of fcuckers in my whole life.

Indolence was endemic from top to bottom and their entire days 'work' was punctuated and dictated by a gazillion seemingly mandatory tea breaks.

Needs to be privatised and 'work' force streamlined by about 75%. Complete shower of money wasting coconuts.

I worked for a UK government health care quango linked to the NHS. Started work at 8:30am, finished at 5pm and in that time had 2 full hours of mandatory breaks. It actually was frustrating at times, I felt like I was getting nothing done a lot of the time. But in my office, a lot of people were accustomed to this.

XsApollo

It's a ****ing mess and a drain and riddled with lazy fuc*kers.
I'm not slating nurses or doctors or people that actually work, I think they do brilliant work.
But I will give an example.
My 2 year old broke his leg last year.
All done dusted overnight stay cast on and home, was happy. Er was fine and stay was grand.
So on return as an outpatient where we go for a check up and X-ray to check progress. Which we did 4 times.
So first time doctor examines and sends for xRay.
Off we go t X-ray room and lady at the desk, I say we were sent for an X-ray , lady said we weren't on the list name isn't there, I say oh what happens, do I go back to the doc , she says well your not on the list , I say same again, she she hums and Haws and says ok I will ring I, say nice , thanks.
Take a seat she says , fine I say.
All done.
As I'm I am sitting and waiting I see the next person walk in.
Lady behind the desk says the same thing to the person.
Goes through the same , oh your not on the list........

Eventually she rings and the person sits.

Next visit for us .
Same again doc checks , we go for X-ray.
Same woman sitting there humming and hawing that we are not on the list blah blah, eventually she rings.
She still sitting there in her pink sweat top and leggings. Barely lift the phone.


3rd visit same again, doc checks ,sent for X-ray , oh your name is not the list the same lady says, same clothes , same attitude lying back on her chair , same attitude like we are interrupting her or something , Half way through conversation I say , last time we're here you rang and it was all sorted, she says ok with a sigh.
I'm thinking lazy b**ch

4th time same again, Doc send for X-ray, same bloody lady , oh your.........
Before she got the words out , I said ring the fuc**ng doctor , your gonna do it any way, no need to have a big conversation about not being on the list and stop bloody moaning about it.

Nice red face to match her pink sweat top she wearing for the last 4 visits.

pjohnson

Quandary wrote: »

The unions have too tight a grip on it. It's a bloated mess dripping with waste, incompetence, nepotism and a deeply ingrained unwillingness to change, particularly on the part of over staffed middle management and clerical. Front line staff will continue to suffer while those in the background will sit quietly while their unions defend the indefensible.The level of reform that's needed will sadly never happen IMO.

As with the BE debacle combined with most other issues most of this can be tracked to the cancerous unions.