Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

shootermacg

TheChizler wrote: »

Nobody should ever be congratulated for not doing something dangerous i think, it should be the standard course of action! Definitely in hindsight I should have hung back, when I made the decision to pass he was going fairly slow up a hill and I would have had plenty of room, but in the meantime he got to the crest (which I didn't anticipate and maybe should have, used to cycle that hill all the time before I disassembled my bike to service it 2 years ago...) and put the foot down which made it borderline. If I'd gone for it I should have ended up on this thread from his point of view! So my intention was ambiguous but didn't warrant the abuse.

If you'd have drove past me only to turn, and it was close enough to cause this stand-off, I wouldn't be happy with your driving either. That's just poor driving. There's a difference between what you did and a car that's ahead at the turn waiting to turn.

ED E

Im with Cython here, what you've done freezes everything. No way am I risking going for it because you just cant assume a driver wont do something stupid when its 1 tonne vs 80kg.

Now I'd put my hands up in the air to ask wtf you're at, not yell, but still.

TheChizler

I'm not disagreeing, I should have slowed down on the hill and stayed behind him, but at the end of the day all that happened was that we both lost a couple of seconds, there was no danger despite him being justifiably cautious, unlike the situation I was comparing to up above.

mr spuckler

it seems TheChizler that you're well intentioned in your posts and fair play for acknowledging that you should have acted differently.

put yourself in the cyclists place though. when someone feels endangered they tend to react quite strongly and it sounds to me like that's what happened here.

also, what seems safe to you might not seem safe to the cyclist.

from personal experience i've pretty much lost all reason when i've been subject to dangerous manouevres in the past. listening back afterwards to what i've shouted on my helmet camera has actually made me cringe and has caused me to try to react better since.

queldy

Was commuting along the canal, Parnell road, usually tons of motorcyclists on the cycling line, most of the time they take the line if free and do not endanger anyone - today one idiot coming particularly fast from previous traffic lights, passing me at speed, bending to change trajectory, missing me and the car in front of me for cm, takes the cycling line, goes till the end of it at speed, stops at the next traffic lights on the cycling line. He is signing left.
I speed up a bit, I reach the lights, I pass him and I stop putting my foot on the ground, I was on the cycling line. He was as well.
When green, I take a few seconds for starting (I delayed it on purpose, yes) - he passes me, he cuts my way (I was prepared for it, anyway), he swears at me, I tell him to shut up (sure all the people around that corner this morning will remember me as the impolite cyclist against all the motorists in the world)- so he stops the motorcycle and tries to push me down my bike (tip for the next time idiot: if you want me down my bike, push on the handlebar, not on my shoulder).
Just sharing the funny story.

07Lapierre

Cycling along a narrow country road in NCD yesterday evening. A BMW 320 convertible pulls out of a driveway right in front of me and proceeds to travel in front of me in the same direction. The passenger realises i'm behind them and that i was freewheeling, as they were travelling quite slowly. there's a T junction just ahead and they are turning left. I'm turning Right and as i move up to the junction on the right side of the car, the driver shouts "sorry about that", to which i reply " no problem...nice car by the way!". A nice summer evening and a nice cyclist/motorist encounter.

PaulieC

07Lapierre wrote: »

Cycling along a narrow country road in NCD yesterday evening. A BMW 320 convertible pulls out of a driveway right in front of me and proceeds to travel in front of me in the same direction. The passenger realises i'm behind them and that i was freewheeling, as they were travelling quite slowly. there's a T junction just ahead and they are turning left. I'm turning Right and as i move up to the junction on the right side of the car, the driver shouts "sorry about that", to which i reply " no problem...nice car by the way!". A nice summer evening and a nice cyclist/motorist encounter.

do you have video footage of this ?

queldy

07Lapierre wrote: »

Cycling along a narrow country road in NCD yesterday evening. A BMW 320 convertible pulls out of a driveway right in front of me and proceeds to travel in front of me in the same direction. The passenger realises i'm behind them and that i was freewheeling, as they were travelling quite slowly. there's a T junction just ahead and they are turning left. I'm turning Right and as i move up to the junction on the right side of the car, the driver shouts "sorry about that", to which i reply " no problem...nice car by the way!". A nice summer evening and a nice cyclist/motorist encounter.

was it a dream or it really happens sometimes?

07Lapierre

PaulieC wrote: »

do you have video footage of this ?

queldy wrote: »

was it a dream or it really happens sometimes?

I assure you i wouldn't lie about it...these encounters are rare enough, so it's good to acknowledge them.

Seaswimmer

mr spuckler wrote: »

it seems TheChizler that you're well intentioned in your posts and fair play for acknowledging that you should have acted differently.

put yourself in the cyclists place though. when someone feels endangered they tend to react quite strongly and it sounds to me like that's what happened here.

also, what seems safe to you might not seem safe to the cyclist.

from personal experience i've pretty much lost all reason when i've been subject to dangerous manouevres in the past. listening back afterwards to what i've shouted on my helmet camera has actually made me cringe and has caused me to try to react better since.

this is interesting as myself and wife cycled out to airshow in Bray last Sunday. There were a couple of minor incidents on the way. One where a car pulled up on the cycle lane and a passenger got out and another where a pedestrian walked into the cycle lane ahead of us and opened a passenger door to get in.

In both cases it was obvious to me what was going to happen so I made allowances (moved off my line or slowed down) but in each case she reacted out of character. The first case she said something like "very dangerous" and second case she again said something to the pedestrian.

We were discussing this after and she explained it was out of fear that made her react like this.

I tried to explain that if every time you cycle you react to every incident then you will be permanently on edge and stressed. Far better to anticipate and take avoiding action.

Roadhawk

Seaswimmer wrote: »

...In both cases it was obvious to me what was going to happen so I made allowances (moved off my line or slowed down) but in each case she reacted out of character. The first case she said something like "very dangerous" and second case she again said something to the pedestrian....

...I tried to explain that if every time you cycle you react to every incident then you will be permanently on edge and stressed. Far better to anticipate and take avoiding action.

Great approach, well said.

AndrewJRenko

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I tried to explain that if every time you cycle you react to every incident then you will be permanently on edge and stressed. Far better to anticipate and take avoiding action.

Far better to anticipate, take avoiding action AND let the person who caused it know what the did.

Chips Lovell

Unless you're a Guard, you've no business going around policing other road users and are just asking for confrontation.

papu

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Unless you're a Guard, you've no business going around policing other road users and are just asking for confrontation.

This is BS, if you see someone on the phone while driving or cycling, or doing something that may not only endanger you but other road users you are far within your right to ask them to stop. The "keep the head down, sure it'll be grand mentality" is infuriating.

Chuchote

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Unless you're a Guard, you've no business going around policing other road users and are just asking for confrontation.

It's not policing to ask people not to endanger my life. It's self-preservation. And if we live in an Ireland where asking someone to keep me safe risks their assaulting me, then I don't want to live here.

Seaswimmer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Far better to anticipate, take avoiding action AND let the person who caused it know what the did.

I don't think so.

I am doing my present commute across town for last 11 years. First year or 2 I was going to correct all driver behaviour, point out politely where they may have made a mistake and we would all learn from the experience.

It never happened like this. Nearly every interaction ended in one or other of us shouting and losing the head.

Now I simply enjoy my cycling and cycle in a manner that dosent put me in any danger or confrontational situations. There are always exceptions of course but I try to stay calm, put it down to experience, hopefully learn from it and move on.

Chips Lovell

Aside from the fact that you've no right to be policing other road users, a.) 90 percent of these self-appointed horn blowers and window tappers are usually in the wrong themselves about what the law is; b.) you're creating a hazardous situation by initiating a confrontation because you and the person you're engaging with are no longer concentrating on the road; and c.) these confrontations rarely end amicably.

Chuchote

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Aside from the fact that you've no right to be policing other road users, a.) 90 percent of these self-appointed horn blowers and window tappers are usually in the wrong themselves about what the law is; b.) you're creating a hazardous situation by initiating a confrontation because you and the person you're engaging with are no longer concentrating on the road; and c.) these confrontations rarely end amicably.

90% eh?

No, if I window-tap it's when the driver is stopped, and I'll say politely that they passed me awfully close back there, I'm sure they didn't realise; in my experience, hardly any such interaction results in rudeness.

Roadhawk

This fella is good for the confrontation. One day he will meet the wrong person!

https://www.youtube.com/user/CycleDub/videos

AndrewJRenko

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Unless you're a Guard, you've no business going around policing other road users and are just asking for confrontation.

How did you jump from "let the person who caused it know what they did" to 'policing other road users'? I didn't suggest issueing fines or locking anyone up - just a simple conversation between two adults.

Seaswimmer wrote: »

It never happened like this. Nearly every interaction ended in one or other of us shouting and losing the head.

Honestly, that says more about you than it does about the other guys.

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Aside from the fact that you've no right to be policing other road users, a.) 90 percent of these self-appointed horn blowers and window tappers are usually in the wrong themselves about what the law is; b.) you're creating a hazardous situation by initiating a confrontation because you and the person you're engaging with are no longer concentrating on the road; and c.) these confrontations rarely end amicably.

My experience differs considerably.

Danbo!

Roadhawk wrote: »

This fella is good for the confrontation. One day he will meet the wrong person!

https://www.youtube.com/user/CycleDub/videos

Let's not go down this road

Fian

Seaswimmer wrote: »

We were discussing this after and she explained it was out of fear that made her react like this.

This is the crucial line in that post imo. When you have just been put in fear of your life or just even given a start it is not so easy to react calmly and rationally. None of the incidents sound dramatic but it sounds as if there was one of her first cycles and she was probably already at a high state of nerves just from sharing the road with cars. Easy to forget what that is like when you are starting off. If you are cycling along going "I am in danger of dying, I am in danger of dying" then even a slight additional risk can probably tip you over the edge of temper.

Close passes, or a lesser road altercation when I am almost home after a long cycle (so low blood sugar/hangry), are the occasions when I am liable to lose my temper. In the rest of my life I am calm, I do not have a temper (again hangry being an exception) but in those moments I not only don't care if the confrontation descends into violence I am probably subconsciously almost hoping it will.

Not at all like my usual self but adrenaline, cortisol and low blood sugar have powerful effects on temperment.

Lumen

Fian wrote: »

In the rest of my life I am calm, I do not have a temper (again hangry being an exception) but in those moments I not only don't care if the confrontation descends into violence I am probably subconsciously almost hoping it will.

OK OK, you can have my Twix! Just don't hurt me! :pac:

On the subject of window-tapping, I don't do it, but this morning a driver turned left across me into an entrance, flicking the indicator just as he turned the wheel, as I was passing on the left in very slow/stopped traffic.

I braked hard and stopped, maybe lightly touching the left of the car with the gloved knuckles of right hand, and calmly waited to see which way he would move so I could proceed.

There was another cyclist behind me who rapped on the rear window and gave out to the driver. I think he thought he was being helpful, but I felt like chum in a shark pool. Leave me out of it!

In my experience if I'm calm enough to not shout I'm calm enough to just go on my way without more than a aspirationally-Italian-but-probably-just-dorky flick of the forearm.

Borderfox

Had one on the Tayto park to Rathfeigh road again yesterday, had stopped already to let two cars pass as different locations when a BMW roared past me with inches to spare.

Scary listening to the stats on mobile phone use in cars on Newstalk today

TheJak01

Nearly knocked off twice by the same clown today. Cycling towards town on Rochestown Avenue, which is a narrow enough road at the best of times, some lad in a gold car with a flag hanging out the side passes me all of about 4 inches away and then proceeds to pull closer to the edge of the road as he's alongside me nearly putting me into the overgrowth at the side of the road. He was so close the supporters flag was practically waving in my face.

I caught him at the set of lights at bakers corner and decided to heed my lesson from the first time. I cycled a good extra meter into the lane than I normally do so that I couldn't get squeezed. There were a number of cars between me and him, that passed me without problems as it's a fairly wide road and there was no traffic coming the other way. Of course, my friend decides to pass me at a similar distance to the first time, so I begin to move towards the curb to try give myself some sort of space. He follows me to the left of the lane, and then takes a left turn as I'm on his back wheel. Thankfully I was on the brakes anyway as I was about to hit the side of the road, but the guy crosses in front of me with inches between us as I'm skidding to a stop.

I'm a little annoyed that I didn't follow him as he can only have been going another 100 meters before getting out. Had I not been aware of him due to his previous ridiculous pass he'd genuinely have run me down. Maybe it's time to invest in a camera, maybe I should have followed him and reported the reg to traffic watch, or maybe I'd have been warranted giving him a piece of my mind (I was fuming, still am). Either he didn't see me, or he didn't care, twice. Once I can almost let go as a mistake, obviously there's no excuse but it doesn't make you an immediate danger to everybody else, but if he's passing other cyclists the way he did me today it's only a matter of time before somebody ends up under his wheels.

ED E

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Unless you're a Guard, you've no business going around policing other road users and are just asking for confrontation.

If Johnny on the stool next to you has six pints and then stumbles out into his car, would you not call the Gardai?

Borderfox

TheJak01 wrote: »

Nearly knocked off twice by the same clown today. Cycling towards town on Rochestown Avenue, which is a narrow enough road at the best of times, some lad in a gold car with a flag hanging out the side passes me all of about 4 inches away and then proceeds to pull closer to the edge of the road as he's alongside me nearly putting me into the overgrowth at the side of the road. He was so close the supporters flag was practically waving in my face.

I caught him at the set of lights at bakers corner and decided to heed my lesson from the first time. I cycled a good extra meter into the lane than I normally do so that I couldn't get squeezed. There were a number of cars between me and him, that passed me without problems as it's a fairly wide road and there was no traffic coming the other way. Of course, my friend decides to pass me at a similar distance to the first time, so I begin to move towards the curb to try give myself some sort of space. He follows me to the left of the lane, and then takes a left turn as I'm on his back wheel. Thankfully I was on the brakes anyway as I was about to hit the side of the road, but the guy crosses in front of me with inches between us as I'm skidding to a stop.

I'm a little annoyed that I didn't follow him as he can only have been going another 100 meters before getting out. Had I not been aware of him due to his previous ridiculous pass he'd genuinely have run me down. Maybe it's time to invest in a camera, maybe I should have followed him and reported the reg to traffic watch, or maybe I'd have been warranted giving him a piece of my mind (I was fuming, still am). Either he didn't see me, or he didn't care, twice. Once I can almost let go as a mistake, obviously there's no excuse but it doesn't make you an immediate danger to everybody else, but if he's passing other cyclists the way he did me today it's only a matter of time before somebody ends up under his wheels.

Maybe he did see you and decided to try to push you off the road?

Chips Lovell

ED E wrote: »

If Johnny on the stool next to you has six pints and then stumbles out into his car, would you not call the Gardai?

That's my point. Call the guards and report it to them rather than getting into a confrontation yourself.

Lumen

ED E wrote: »

If Johnny on the stool next to you has six pints and then stumbles out into his car, would you not call the Gardai?

Calling the Gardai is not the same as policing other road users.

Borderfox

In my experience, the Gardaí don't care when you report drink drivers. Have called them at least 4 times and no follow up.