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US-led Coalition airstrike kills more than 30 civilians near Raqqa

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Raqqa is a war zone. It's a tragedy civilians get killed but that's the reality of things unfortunately.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Raqqa is a war zone. It's a tragedy civilians get killed but that's the reality of things unfortunately.

    It is a tragedy. Raqqa is a war zone because it has been made a war zone.
    I'm just weary of the crazy-making distinction that is being forced into people heads between slaughter by terrorist munitions and slaughter by state-sponsored ''freedom''-munitions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    America has a long track record of killing civilians or friendlies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/us-airstrikes-kill-18-people-western-raqqa-activists/
    The above is a different 18 people from the others mentioned...also killed over the weekend by US airstrikes, also civilians.

    Edit : 116 civilians have been recorded to be killed by US strikes in Syria since March 8th. Did anyone tell us that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    biko wrote: »
    America has a long track record of killing civilians or friendlies.

    How do they maintain their respectability?
    Why do we still fawn there?

    Is it really all money?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭DontThankMe


    Is it bad that I stopped caring about what happens in Syria a long time ago. There is only so much sad/bad news I can read in certain period of time before I just stop caring about what happens over there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    It's very inconvenient for America that their oil runs under Syrian land.

    Say what now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    How do they maintain their respectability?
    Why do we still fawn there?

    Is it really all money?

    Who's fawning over the US? I'm certainly not and I think most rational minded people have copped onto them at this stage. I think the EU should have been distancing themselves from their war mongering antics a long time ago.

    Instead we get an influx of millions of migrants into the EU because of US destabilisation and illegal interference in the middle east.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Is it bad that I stopped caring about what happens in Syria a long time ago. There is only so much sad/bad news I can read in certain period of time before I just stop caring about what happens over there.

    It's natural. I get fatigued too. Then there are some stories that feel sharper. Like Danielle in Goa, or kids sheltering in a school being blown to bits.

    Anyways sorry to be a Debbie Downer :( I'm just fecked off with it today.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Say what now?

    Oh, come on. Seriously?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Might have something to do with a story from the same source claiming a mosque had been destroyed by airstrikes during the week , proven to be a bs story


    "An informed source " according to Sputnik news comical


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Who's fawning over the US? I'm certainly not and I think most rational minded people have copped onto them at this stage. I think the EU should have been distancing themselves from their war mongering antics a long time ago.

    Instead we get an influx of millions of migrants into the EU because of US destabilisation.

    This gob****e is....
    2017_3$LargePhoto17_Mar_2017_17032017102212.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-airstrike-idUSKBN16T0RV

    http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/03/22/19/14/air-strike-kills-more-than-30-near-raqqa

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201703221051833367-us-coalition-syria-school-strike-casualties/

    Hardly a peep about it on the main news outlets. It's very inconvenient for America that their oil runs under Syrian land. Imagine if the Syrian air force had out of a clear blue sky murdered children in an American school - imagine how stoked up we would all be made to feel, sitting on the edge of our chairs waiting for Armageddon.
    This is another terrible slaughter. Makes me angry. I'm weary of the exceptional Empire squeezing the world in the palm of its hands.

    You'd wonder how someone in their bedroom in Coventry seems to be the only person reporting this tragedy and all of the news sources take it at face value.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Gatling wrote: »
    Might have something to do with a story from the same source claiming a mosque had been destroyed by airstrikes during the week , proven to be a bs story

    Oh Gatling, Gatling....sigh
    Sorry but it's coming out now more generally. It's not a ''bs story''


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Oh Gatling, Gatling....sigh
    Sorry but it's coming out now more generally. It's not a ''bs story''

    Lol yep don't believe everything you happen to read from" An informed source "


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Oh, come on. Seriously?

    seriously.

    how is American oil flowing under syria? is there like some super secret American tunnel or something?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,639 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-airstrike-idUSKBN16T0RV

    http://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/03/22/19/14/air-strike-kills-more-than-30-near-raqqa

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201703221051833367-us-coalition-syria-school-strike-casualties/

    Hardly a peep about it on the main news outlets. It's very inconvenient for America that their oil runs under Syrian land. Imagine if the Syrian air force had out of a clear blue sky murdered children in an American school - imagine how stoked up we would all be made to feel, sitting on the edge of our chairs waiting for Armageddon.
    This is another terrible slaughter. Makes me angry. I'm weary of the exceptional Empire squeezing the world in the palm of its hands.

    Hardly "hardly a peep" when our own national broadcaster has been reporting it along with your own quoted source of Reuters - one of the worlds largest press agencies.

    Why are you singling out the US from the other countries of the coalition? To be balanced don't you think that other countries of the coalition should be named?

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    A US-led coalition is a bit vague as well. Which plane dropped the bomb(s) ? American, French, Belgian, Saudi,... ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    OldGoat wrote: »
    Hardly "hardly a peep" when our own national broadcaster has been reporting it along with your own quoted source of Reuters - one of the worlds largest press agencies.

    Why are you singling out the US from the other countries of the coalition? To be balanced don't you think that other countries of the coalition should be named?

    It happened Monday. RTE and BBC are playing a very Johnny come lately game of catch up. Yes, there are other countries. Why, we might even be refuelling the bastards in Shannon for all we know


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    seriously.

    how is American oil flowing under syria? is there like some super secret American tunnel or something?

    They wish.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    A US-led coalition is a bit vague as well. Which plane dropped the bomb(s) ? American, French, Belgian, Saudi,... ?

    Does it make a difference? It is internationally recognised in the main stream press and in geo-political centres as the ''US-Led Coalition'' because ...er.....it is a US led Coalition


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    OldGoat wrote: »
    Why are you singling out the US from the other countries of the coalition? To be balanced don't you think that other countries of the coalition should be named?

    Because he doesnt actually know much about the Syrian conflict. Never mind the internal and external factors and regional actors which dictate the crisis.

    It's easier to just blame 'Merica'....as if the US was the only issue in the region.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Does it make a difference? It is internationally recognised in the main stream press and in geo-political centres as the ''US-Led Coalition'' because ...er.....it is a US led Coalition

    Of course it does. If you're gonna bash the US but don't know if it was even an American plane that is responsible then I think that's pretty important.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Because he doesnt actually know much about the Syrian conflict. Never mind the internal and external factors and regional actors which dictate the crisis.

    It's easier to just blame 'Merica'....as if the US was the only issue in the region.

    I am not a he. And I know A LOT about the Syrian Conflict, Senorita. You used the word 'Merica' not I, silly billy. I posted an OP that states that the US coalition has slaughtered civilians in Raqqa. Which it has, and repeatedly, in the hundreds it may eventually be shown, and in the tens of thousands it may be found when the dust has settled. Just like Iraq. Or Afghanistan. And you want to dismiss me as some kind of ill-informed conspiracy theorist. You misjudge me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Of course it does. If you're gonna bash the US but don't know if it was even an American plane that is responsible then I think that's pretty important.

    Bringing a story to your attention about civilian slaughter by the US coalition (as quoted per Reuters and now BBC etc) is ''bashing'' the US? Okay, I'll inform the press to keep it on the QT for fear of offending.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Bringing a story to your attention about civilian slaughter by the US coalition (as quoted per Reuters and now BBC etc) is ''bashing'' the US? Okay, I'll inform the press to keep it on the QT for fear of offending.
    I'm weary of the exceptional Empire squeezing the world in the palm of its hands.

    It's more your language.

    Do you know which country's airforce is responsible yet ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Bringing a story to your attention about civilian slaughter by the US coalition

    But you or others don't actually know that civilians are getting slaughtered funny how isis fighters are on site


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    It's more your language.

    Do you know which country's airforce is responsible yet ?

    I would have to ask an official spokesperson for the US Led Coalition, as that is how they operate. They have a joint press spokesperson. No statement has been issued thus far as to which exact flag was on the planes. When the official spokesperson from the US led Coalition gives an update - which is more likely now that the news is out, and they will be forced to account for themselves - then you, Jelle, will be the first i will inform.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,639 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    I am not a he. And I know A LOT about the Syrian Conflict, Senorita. You used the word 'Merica' not I, silly billy. I posted an OP that states that the US coalition has slaughtered civilians in Raqqa. Which it has, and repeatedly, in the hundreds it may eventually be shown, and in the tens of thousands it may be found when the dust has settled. Just like Iraq. Or Afghanistan. And you want to dismiss me as some kind of ill-informed conspiracy theorist. You misjudge me.
    The first thing you did in the OP was to quote facts. I like facts.
    However you then went on to editorialise with an Anti-American theme. It was then that I quibbled with your post.

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    I would have to ask an official spokesperson for the US Led Coalition, as that is how they operate. They have a joint press spokesperson. No statement has been issued thus far as to which exact flag was on the planes. When the official spokesperson from the US led Coalition gives an update - which is more likely now that the news is out, and they will be forced to account for themselves - then you, Jelle, will be the first i will inform.

    Thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    OldGoat wrote: »
    The first thing you did in the OP was to quote facts. I like facts.
    However you then went on to editorialise with an Anti-American theme. It was then that I quibbled with your post.

    Yah, you know...somehow I feel very angry with whoever it is that slaughters civilians, be it terrorists, Belgians, Russians, or Americans. An editorial (I could not go so far as to claim it was that, as that is rather lofty) generally states the authors personal slant on an event...in this instance, yes, I feel pissed at the situation that has a US led coalition interfering in a sovereign state in such a way that civilians are being slaughtered. Again. And again. And again. If I had editorial power, real editorial power, I would tell America to its face (and its allies) to get the hell out of the Middle East and stop turning it into an inferno.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    I am not a he. And I know A LOT about the Syrian Conflict, Senorita. You used the word 'Merica' not I, silly billy. I posted an OP that states that the US coalition has slaughtered civilians in Raqqa. Which it has, and repeatedly, in the hundreds it may eventually be shown, and in the tens of thousands it may be found when the dust has settled. Just like Iraq. Or Afghanistan. And you want to dismiss me as some kind of ill-informed conspiracy theorist. You misjudge me.

    Ok lady....no idea why I think you are a CT head.

    Give us all a backbrief on how the conflict started, the current situation and who the regional actors are and what their motivatioms are.

    Dont forget to let us know who is fighting who and in what region. Where each entity's allegience (politically, financially, militarily, religiously) currently lies and why.

    Give us a rundown on the groups with the most allegience fluidity for financial reasons. Especially the Anti Regime forces.

    Any info on the Islamic State composition and activites and how they relate to Anti Regime / Pro Regime / Coalition and Turkish forces.

    List out ALL the international actors (including Ireland btw) that have an interest in Syria and the region and what influences they have in supoorting either pro or anti government forces.

    Or is your "A LOT" of knowledge based on open source, biased media reporting, most of which is regurgitated propaganda on both sides depending what institution you read it from?

    Either way, dont BS or skirt around your reply. You either know what actually is going on OR you dont.

    So far, it doesnt look good for you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,639 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    Yah, you know...somehow I feel very angry with whoever it is that slaughters civilians, be it terrorists, Belgians, Russians, or Americans. An editorial (I could not go so far as to claim it was that, as that is rather lofty) generally states the authors personal slant on an event...in this instance, yes, I feel pissed at the situation that has a US led coalition interfering in a sovereign state in such a way that civilians are being slaughtered. Again. And again. And again. If I had editorial power, real editorial power, I would tell America to its face (and its allies) to get the hell out of the Middle East and stop turning it into an inferno.
    Thats what you should have said in the OP and I'd be right there with you. The situation is terrible, the outcome is horrific.
    The situation however is not as simple as shouting "US out!". The combination or histories, religions, politics and economics all disputing the same piece of sand create the perfect storm conditions to turn civilians into mere statistics.

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Ok lady....no idea why I think you are a CT head.

    Give us all a backbrief on how the conflict started, the current situation and who the regional actors are and what their motivatioms are.

    Dont forget to let us know who is fighting who and in what region. Where each entity's allegience (politically, financially, militarily, religiously) currently lies and why.

    Give us a rundown on the groups with the most allegience fluidity for financial reasons. Especially the Anti Regime forces.

    Any info on the Islamic State composition and activites and how they relate to Anti Regime / Pro Regime / Coalition and Turkish forces.

    List out ALL the international actors (including Ireland btw) that have an interest in Syria and the region and what influences they have in supoorting either pro or anti government forces.

    Or is your "A LOT" of knowledge based on open source, biased media reporting, most of which is regurgitated propaganda on both sides depending what institution you read it from?

    Either way, dont BS or skirt around your reply. You either know what actually is going on OR you dont.

    So far, it doesnt look good for you.
    No. Man.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    ... Raqqa is a war zone because it has been made a war zone.
    ...

    It's all regrettable for a rational person. It's not a cowboy movie with goodies and baddies. The death of innocents is what it is.

    That 'made into a war zone' comment though sounds a bit spurious... are we in doubt that the war is as a result of an uprising by some Syrian people against a Syrian leader?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    OldGoat wrote: »
    Thats what you should have said in the OP and I'd be right there with you. The situation is terrible, the outcome is horrific.
    The situation however is not as simple as shouting "US out!". The combination or histories, religions, politics and economics all disputing the same piece of sand create the perfect storm conditions to turn civilians into mere statistics.

    It's just we are forced day in day out to bear witness to the unfolding of this unspeakable tragedy that is the middle east, and be ever more mute, unprincipled, uneducated, unmoved, and i grow so weary of it. We are made accomplices in our silence, it is horrific.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    topper75 wrote: »
    It's all regrettable for a rational person. It's not a cowboy movie with goodies and baddies. The death of innocents is what it is.

    That 'made into a war zone' comment though sounds a bit spurious... are we in doubt that the war is as a result of an uprising by some Syrian people against a Syrian leader?

    Is that a trick question? Do you think I would be so foolish as to say it has been wholly an engineered coup by external forces seeking control of pipelines? Or do you want to be so foolish as to say it was a purely native uprising of Syrian people against a Syrian leader? No. Let us at least agree sensibly that factors of many types - overt and covert - have conspired to result in yet another of the ongoing and ever-increasing conflagrations in the Middle East. Then at least we would not be fools who argue over the causes as if the world can be explained by simplistic theories of everything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    No. Man.

    So you dont know a lot then?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    This is tragic but its ridiculous to compare it to the same happening in America. As that is an active war zone and America is not. It would be bigger news if it happened in America as there arent daily aerial bombings and mass deaths in America


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    It's just we are forced day in day out to bear witness to the unfolding of this unspeakable tragedy that is the middle east, and be ever more mute, unprincipled, uneducated, unmoved, and i grow so weary of it. We are made accomplices in our silence, it is horrific.

    Who will you "speak" to? Who will listen to your protestations?

    It may only resonate with coalition forces. International coalition forces generally have stable governments and briefs.

    External (non operational) actors are the same.

    It wont work for the Syrian government and you can bet that IS wont give a flying fcuk what any of us think.

    IS are the biggest regional threat in the MENA region, not the coalition forces.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    wakka12 wrote: »
    This is tragic but its ridiculous to compare it to the same happening in America. As that is an active war zone and America is not. It would be bigger news if it happened in America as there arent daily aerial bombings and mass deaths in America

    Do you think Syria has always been a war zone? That there has always been daily aerial bombings and mass deaths in beautiful Syria, in Syria with its most ancient of cultures and its thousands of years of learning and civilisation? Do you think a child in Damascus or Raqqa is less valuable than a child anywhere else? Why is it ridiculous to compare? If America was a war zone that would be horrific too. Why does it take its weapons and war machine abroad instead? Why? Why does it spend billions and trillions on weapons when a fraction of the cost could raise every human on this earth out of poverty? I am sick of rationalisations such as ''It is war.'' War is entirely irrational.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Do you think Syria has always been a war zone? That there has always been daily aerial bombings and mass deaths in beautiful Syria, in Syria with its most ancient of cultures and its thousands of years of learning and civilisation? Do you think a child in Damascus or Raqqa is less valuable than a child anywhere else? Why is it ridiculous to compare? If America was a war zone that would be horrific too. Why does it take its weapons and war machine abroad instead? Why? Why does it spend billions and trillions on weapons when a fraction of the cost could raise every human on this earth out of poverty? I am sick of rationalisations such as ''It is war.'' War is entirely irrational.

    No, I know quite a lot about what Syria was like before the war, if an american bombing had killed 33 people at a school in Syria in about 2009 then it would have been major news worldwide, as that would be an extraordinary occurrence.Thats all Im saying, I agree with all your other points


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Who will you "speak" to? Who will listen to your protestations?

    It may only resonate with coalition forces. International coalition forces generally have stable governments and briefs.

    External (non operational) actors are the same.

    It wont work for the Syrian government and you can bet that IS wont give a flying fcuk what any of us think.

    IS are the biggest regional threat in the MENA region, not the coalition forces.

    IS did not arise from thin air. There is the factor of burgeoning Wahhabi extremism to consider in its growth, but to deny that the previous western-instigated wars in the middle east that have resulted in the deaths of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS, if not more than a MILLION innocents, had no part in the seeding and nurture of extremist Islamic groups would be naive. IS is a huge existential threat to us all. The absolutely crazy thing that we may have to consider at some time in the future when the world has grown truly weary of senseless slaughter is that extremists may have to be brought to the peace table, just like we did here in Northern Ireland. Yes, we will actually at some point have to speak to these lunatics. We will not bomb and slaughter a fundamentalist idea into submission, we will simply drive it to breed more ferociously, and as a consequence all our lives will be more unsafe.
    We should do it sooner rather than later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    All three articles are very presumptive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    IS did not arise from thin air. There is the factor of burgeoning Wahhabi extremism to consider in its growth, but to deny that the previous western-instigated wars in the middle east that have resulted in the deaths of HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS, if not more than a MILLION innocents, had no part in the seeding and nurture of extremist Islamic groups would be naive. IS is a huge existential threat to us all. The absolutely crazy thing that we may have to consider at some time in the future when the world has grown truly weary of senseless slaughter is that extremists may have to be brought to the peace table, just like we did here in Northern Ireland. Yes, we will actually at some point have to speak to these lunatics. We will not bomb and slaughter a fundamentalist idea into submission, we will simply drive it to breed more ferociously, and as a consequence all our lives will be more unsafe.
    We should do it sooner rather than later.

    Im very aware of western interference which aided in the rise of IS. It was not the sole cause of it no matter how much you want it to be.

    I agree more with your sentiment now that I see you are not the typical Boards user that has just latched onto the latest media release.

    However, I disagree with the potential for peace talks. They will not be as inclusive or as effective as we would all hope.

    There are too many sides involved, not alone in Syria but MENA in general. Take the Astana talks for example. How were the extremists and Islamists catered for?

    You are 100% correct in regards to IS and their allies, supporters and symphatisers. Unfortunately IS or any future variant are here to stay. No amount of bombing can destroy an ideology but it is still necessery.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Please note, I am NOT saying this is true, but I do see unconfirmed reports here and there that many more than 33 were killed at that school.
    I hope that some accurate account will emerge soon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I see Damascus is currently getting hit pretty heavily the last few days by rebels ,
    Odd considering assad was firmly in control


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Raqqa is Being Slaughtered Silently reported that the school was completely levelled by the strike, and that the 50 families who were sheltering there were still unaccounted for on Wednesday morning.


    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39350475


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling



    Actually if you read it ,

    It's says what all your other links are saying according to the same "informed source "


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Gatling wrote: »
    Actually if you read it ,

    It's says what all your other links are saying according to the same "informed source "

    I am well aware of the source, Gatling. A source you have been more than happy to use and back up heartily in numerous encounters we have had on boards. It is unusual in fact to see the Syrian Observatory being critical of coalition activities, which in itself is telling. Can you just wait and see what comes out of this now, though the immediate presence afterwards of IS militants may muddy the waters. My feeling (sadly) is it was an historic civilian massacre involving many sheltering families.


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